: I can help you with your Deutz air cooled!



Ruffcorn
04-05-2010, 06:14 PM
Hello everyone!, My name is Trevor Ruffcorn i am a co-owner of Ruffcorn Farms. We currently have 8 FL 912 Air cooled deutz's that run our irrigation systems, ranging from the 6 cylinder all the way down to the 1 cylinder. We have turboed ones and N/A ones. The engines we own run up to 22 hours a day in the summer in upwards of 100 degree days. I am our deutz mechanic so i have a decent amount of experiance with these engines. If you have any questions about air cooled Deutz engines dont be afraid to ask! :beer:

Trevor

DieselSchlepper
04-09-2010, 09:11 AM
Here's the thing that gets me about Deutz. They are so precise even when they shouldn't be. I have nightmares about when I finally take the heads off my F5L 912 and the bolts are stuck. We had a ton of trouble just getting the oil filter housing off because the aluminum galded to the steel bolts. When the heads come off its got to be galded inside that 30 year old engine. All I know is to work the bolts back and forth with air ratchet and keep em soaked with pentrating lube until they break free. Otherwise you bust em off and have to heat the block and weld a nut to them etc. I wonder if i can start presoaking them while the engine is still in use?

siloguy
04-13-2010, 11:56 AM
Don't sweat it! The bolts thread into the crankcase, which is iron, and usually don't come out hard. They are long skinny bolts and I have never broken one, but I have pitched a few that stretched too much. The hard part is getting all the carbon off the one in the ex. port so a socket will fit it!

siloguy
04-13-2010, 12:00 PM
Have you ever seen the crank on a Deutz? What were they thinking!!! They work fine, but my gosh, is all that complexity really needed? (The bolt on machined counterweights) Don't forget new flywheel bolts, they are one time use stretch bolts, which i found out the hard way!! Engine ran, tractor didn't move!!!

Ruffcorn
04-13-2010, 03:40 PM
The cranks are crazy. Probably one of the most over thought engine parts

DieselSchlepper
04-19-2010, 08:17 AM
Sometimes I think they design something simple that works and then spend as much time making it complicated. Maybe they make something that works 97% perfect and then add another 75% percent of complexity to make it work 99% perfect. Sort of like this post.

v8440
04-22-2010, 08:26 PM
Hi, new guy here-I'm about to get a Deutz f5l 912 engine. It seems to run fine, though it smokes blue some. Here's the weird part-it's in a 1979 dodge motorhome, and not a very large one. It's small enough that the front of the motorhome is a regular dodge van front end. It has a rear sump pan, which I gather might be desirable, and it has what looks to be TWO bellhousing adapters, one in front of the other. The transmission is a chrysler 727. I have not yet determined whether it's a smallblock bellhousing or a big block bellhousing. I'd expect it might have 6 pinion planetaries and maybe some other heavy duty hard parts that could come in handy for another project. Anyway, if any of you guys could point me in the direction of some basic info on this engine I sure would appreciate it. (stuff like engine weight, how much torque they make, etc etc.)

Ruffcorn
06-02-2010, 06:57 PM
Howdy! Welcome to the Forum, i have honestly never heard of a Deutz in a dodge motorhome. I could be wrong but it makes me think someone has swapped it into your motorhome in the past. Anyways, that motor is pusing around 70-85 hp. It is normal for them to smoke when running without a load or like and other diesel, when they arent warmed up yet. Deutz engines are very very very relible and about the only things we have had to do to ours, besides rebuilds is changing the lift pump on the side of the injector pump. Give me some numbers off of your engine and i should be able to find you out some more information.

Turbo.Bimmer
06-03-2010, 08:07 AM
I have a Duetz 4 banger. Looks like it threw a rod. The case is cracked below the back cylinder. Any luck welding these cases?

french277
06-07-2010, 01:28 AM
Pour 5 Cyliner Duetz le moteur ils ont été notés n'importe où de 80 à 100 CV et environ 250 à 300 Ftlbs toqure et j'ai les possèdent auparavant et au poêle ma question j'ai vraiment ajouté un turbocompresseur pour y donner un coup de pied jusqu'à de 150CV à plus de mangable pour mon useage.

For the 5 Cyliner Duetz engine they were rated anywhere from 80 to 100 CV and about 250 to 300 Ftlbs toqure and I have own them before and to slove my issue I did add a turbocharger to kick it up to about 150CV to more mangable for my useage.

Merci,Marc

Gromit
08-29-2010, 07:26 PM
The Deutz 5 cyl 912 engine in Z100 Iveco trucks used a Chrysler 727 when ordered with an automatic.

Gromit

v8440
08-30-2010, 05:54 AM
I think it was original to the motorhome. One reason is that there are lights on the dashboard pertaining to the diesel engine. I can't remember what the lights say, except that one of them might have been "water in fuel". The plate on the engine has it rated at 100 hp. One other thing that makes me think the engine was original is the fact that the radiator support, though it had no radiator, had a curved section to support the air filter canister. The curve looked factory, not like someone did it after the vehicle was built.

markd89
09-05-2010, 12:25 AM
Hi Trevor,

I have a friend who has a F2L511. This is rated 28hp at 2800 rpm.

I'm wondering if this would work to power my VW bus. The stock gas engine is 70 HP and 110 lb/ft torque. I'm looking for fuel economy in making the switch and would like to have similar performance.

I'd like to be able to cruise at 75 mph if I wanted to and get 30+ MPG hopefully closer to 35. I like the idea of the small power plant for economy. To maintain 65 mph (which I'd do more often than 75), I probably don't need much more than the 28 hp. To accelerate or climb a hill, I would need more.

I know in other diesels, you can often run a turbo at high boost and make a lot more power - when needed for acceleration and hills. I read elsewhere that you can't do that with the Deutz or it gets melted. Any advice? Can the engine be modified to run boost safely? How much power could I get? Is there any way to (safely) run more than 2800 rpm?

Thanks,

Mark

v8440
09-05-2010, 09:03 AM
I do not think the 28 hp engine will work well. Here's why:

28 hp is probably not anywhere near enough to cruise at 75, maybe not even at 65 mph. Think about it-your bus came with 70 hp. You're proposing to lose more than half of your power. Remember also that you won't get 28 hp to the ground-that's at the flywheel, not including drivetrain losses. Assuming your bus has a manual transmission, 15% is a generally accepted drivetrain loss figure. That comes out to not quite 24 hp at the wheels. If it's an auto it will be somewhat worse.

Those vw buses look to be about as aerodynamic as a barn, meaning wind drag at highway speeds will be quite high. I believe (can't prove) that wind drag alone at highway speeds would use up most or even all of the power with something as un-aerodynamic as a vw bus. Then add in drivetrain loss, rolling resistance of the tires, alternator drag, and maybe a bit of safety margin so you don't have to keep it floored absolutely all the time and you end up with a no win situation.

Real world example: My dad bought a 1952 beetle new in 1952. It was obviously much smaller than a vw bus, with less wind drag. It had 36 hp, which is a little more than 28% higher than the engine you're proposing to use. He told me that he would get out on the (then relatively new) interstates in that car and just lock his right knee. In his words, "it would go 85 downhill and 35 uphill and it just about worked out right." So, it would probably do almost but not quite what you're hoping for with 28% more power in a much smaller, more aerodynamic package.

As for improving power via turbocharging, I'm not an expert on the deutz engines. What little I've read about turbocharging the air cooled ones that weren't originally turbocharged is that relatively small gains are possible before you run into problems with overheating and excessive cylinder pressures.

As you've probably gathered, I don't think you will get satisfactory performance in a vw bus with a 28 hp engine. I think your idea is a neat one and worth pursuing, just not with that particular engine.

DieselSchlepper
09-05-2010, 04:00 PM
The 28 hp deutz will probably feel like a 60 hp gas engine because of the torque. I would say that a 3 cylinder would be very satisfying in a bus except your gonna have gearing problems because of the lower rpm's, and vibration. There is a guy here with a 2 cylinder Detroit in a Ford truck, but it's turbo. It's easy to melt a Deutz by adding a turbo because of the exacting engineering requirements of an air-cooled engine of that size and power output. I know of a 2 cylinder Deutz in a Jeep CJ and the owner is very satisfied with it in the woods, but he is an older farmer type-of-guy. I don't know if he uses it on the road. My 100 hp F5L 912 feels like a 2 barrel big block V8 in my Ford F 150 short bed.

Plus you'll need a Deutz to VW bell housing and clutch.

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
09-05-2010, 05:43 PM
not just due to the power or vibration (1st vw transporter vans had just 30hp out of a gasser), but the weight of the deutz F2L511 seems to be a problem to the vw stock transmission as the engine weight is supported only by the transmission...

v8440
09-05-2010, 08:52 PM
A 28 hp deutz may feel like 60 hp, but rest assured that this will not fool the wind drag. It takes a certain amount of hp to move a certain vehicle at a certain speed, and lots of low end torque will not change that.

markd89
09-05-2010, 10:29 PM
Thanks for the advice, gents. I think you're right -- it's not the best fit for the application. There are too many issues:

-Need more power and can't get enough by safely running a turbo.
-RPM range wrong for trans. I thought of running some 2:1 double gearing between the engine and trans but now it's an even more complicated idea.
-By the time I look at 3 or 4 cylinders to get enough power, the size and weight will be excessive. (Early buses use only the trans to mount the engine. My 78 bus does have a rear engine mount too, but still...)

Since I'm looking for economy and reasonable power (i.e. efficiency), I should probably revisit the more conventional choice of an early TDI which has been done before...

Thanks again!
Mark

K-TRON
09-05-2010, 10:35 PM
A 3 cylinder inline diesel (3M41) from Hatz diesel may be a good choice. It develops 59hp, and it is 680lbs
Governed to 3000rpm
http://www.hatz-diesel.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Typenblaetter/tb_m41_eng.pdf


Deutz makes a 2, 3 and 4 cylinder 2800rpm oil cooled diesels in the L2011 series
3 Cylinder Turbocharged : BF3L2011 48hp, 490lbs
4 Cylinder Turbocharged : BF4L2011 58hp, 560lbs
http://www.deutz.com/live_deutz_products/html/display:engine?engineKey=8a85818a11c1035d0111e02c1 1d102a9&count=3


The 2 cylinder Detroit Diesel Pat is referring to, is about 700lbs of engine. 106 cubic inch, and it develops 55-70hp. I have heard of a few modified 2-53's running in the 105-110hp range.
They are a tall and require a moderately sized cooling system. You can talk to member "supercharged65" Jason has a modified turbocharged 2-53 in his 1/2 ton ford and he gets pretty decent mileage with it.


The 4 cylinder VW diesel 1.8 or 1.9L would be small lightweight and plenty powerful. The only problem is that they are electronically controlled, so it will make a swap quite difficult. It would be the most fuel efficient engine to replace your current one with. It will be somewhere around 2 x as fuel efficient as the other options

Chris

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
09-06-2010, 01:32 AM
A 3 cylinder inline diesel (3M41) from Hatz diesel may be a good choice. It develops 59hp, and it is 680lbs
Governed to 3000rpm
http://www.hatz-diesel.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Typenblaetter/tb_m41_eng.pdf

there's a 36.9hp kohler that i believe could be better to a vw due to the weight concentration...
http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/productDetail.htm?productNumber=KD625-3 as it weights about 375lbs (almost the half)

i would actually start to consider a watercooled one as there are some lighter watercooleds that could fit the vw engine bay... just would need to place the radiator somewhere but instead of use that workaround done by vw in brazil and mexico to fit the radiator in the front of the vehicle maybe the radiator could be placed like in some rear-engined urban shuttle buses or coaches...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvKpYSgv_DQ
forget the audio in this video (it's in portuguese), but you can clearly see the radiator and the engine, exactly what i believe that would be the best setup...


The 4 cylinder VW diesel 1.8 or 1.9L would be small lightweight and plenty powerful. The only problem is that they are electronically controlled, so it will make a swap quite difficult. It would be the most fuel efficient engine to replace your current one with. It will be somewhere around 2 x as fuel efficient as the other options

some brazilian "kombis" had been factory-fitted with the 50hp 1.6idi...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Brazilian_Kombi_Diesel.jpg
you can clearly see the "diesel" label...

markd89
09-06-2010, 08:48 AM
Thanks Rooster,

I agree that 400lb is a more realistic target. The Kohler is cool but I'm thinking I should have a little more power and the 3000 rpm redline is still a little challenging.

I like the IDI engines, especially that they are much cheaper than TDIs. However, the TDI seems to be more efficient. I might as well get one of those for the improved MPGs I want and take the extra power too.

I do have to plan my gearing also. The trans I have will work with a TDI but won't be optimal for economy so I'll need new gears. I wonder if the trans from one of the Brazil Kombi's would fit my bus and whether it would be worth importing one. Although the bus looks identical to mine, they may have changed how it's mounted or shifted. If that's the case, it'd be easier to regear the one I have.

Mark

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
09-06-2010, 10:08 AM
I like the IDI engines, especially that they are much cheaper than TDIs. However, the TDI seems to be more efficient. I might as well get one of those for the improved MPGs I want and take the extra power too.

it's not hard to find some owners saying they can get more than 40mpg for those idi engines into kombis, saveiros (a brazilian model simillar to those rabbit pickups) and repowered suzukis (my uncle had a 50hp suzuki vitara with a vw 1.6idi)...



I do have to plan my gearing also. The trans I have will work with a TDI but won't be optimal for economy so I'll need new gears. I wonder if the trans from one of the Brazil Kombi's would fit my bus and whether it would be worth importing one.

the gearbox in the brazilian kombis made after the '75 model are called "mexican" gearboxes, as the beetle retained the older twin-traction-beam rear suspension while the kombi started to be fitted with a semi-trailing arms setup like its european counterparts started to be fitted in '67 (however, the hub reduction gears were phased out)... btw the gears ratio are the same for every aircooled vw, just the differential had different ratios (the stock higher one is found in the sp2, a coupe made only in brazil)...

markd89
09-06-2010, 02:01 PM
it's not hard to find some owners saying they can get more than 40mpg for those idi engines into kombis, saveiros (a brazilian model simillar to those rabbit pickups) and repowered suzukis (my uncle had a 50hp suzuki vitara with a vw 1.6idi)...


Interesting.



the gearbox in the brazilian kombis made after the '75 model are called "mexican" gearboxes, as the beetle retained the older twin-traction-beam rear suspension while the kombi started to be fitted with a semi-trailing arms setup like its european counterparts started to be fitted in '67 (however, the hub reduction gears were phased out)... btw the gears ratio are the same for every aircooled vw, just the differential had different ratios (the stock higher one is found in the sp2, a coupe made only in brazil)...

The transmission in my bus is the IRS. I attached a pic 091.jpg (can't link to pictures until I have 10 posts)

I think you're saying that in Brazil, they still use the swing axle trans. (swingaxle.jpg)

It would be nice to be able to use the differential from a Brazilian diesel bus, but I think it's different. The lowest final drive you can get for the 091 is 4.57. I'm sure 3.x would be much better for the diesel.

Mark

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
09-06-2010, 06:55 PM
The transmission in my bus is the IRS. I attached a pic 091.jpg (can't link to pictures until I have 10 posts)

I think you're saying that in Brazil, they still use the swing axle trans. (swingaxle.jpg)

no, since '76 the irs is used in brazilian kombis... the swing-axle setup remained just in smaller passenger cars (except for the variant II that had the rear irs and mcpherson strut at the front axle)...


It would be nice to be able to use the differential from a Brazilian diesel bus, but I think it's different. The lowest final drive you can get for the 091 is 4.57. I'm sure 3.x would be much better for the diesel.

the differentials are exactly the same for all kombis... but you can change the ratio to a higher one such as those used in beetles and other passenger cars that had higher differentials... the gearbox is exactly the same for all aircooled volkswagens, the same gear ratios just changing the differential and the suspension setup when changed the universal joints for the homocinetic joints...

gulfstream
11-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Trevor. I recently purchased a Snorlel man lift with a 3 cyl. Diesel..This engine runs and cranks good but when the RPM come up it smokes white smoke..Is this a ring or injector problem..i will get the model # but dont have it know. Any ideas?

DieselSchlepper
11-06-2010, 09:13 PM
How is the oil consumption?

gulfstream
11-07-2010, 06:16 AM
i have only run it to load and unload off trailer..but i noticed it was a little low on dipstick..Engine shows 3000 hours

gulfstream
11-08-2010, 04:46 AM
Trevor. I recently purchased a Snorlel man lift with a 3 cyl. Diesel F3L-1011F This engine runs and cranks good but when the RPM come up it smokes white smoke..Is this a ring or injector problem..i will get the model # but dont have it know. Any ideas?

gulfstream
11-13-2010, 07:15 AM
Thanks for all the help !!!!!..I will ask somewhere else

DieselSchlepper
11-13-2010, 05:32 PM
I'd run it and watch the oil consumption then you'll know.

vskidmoreii
11-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Has anyone seen or heard of anyone installing a BF4M2011 (or the newer TD2011L04) into a Jeep CJ or a Toyota FJ??? If so, what kind of flywheel housing/bell housing did they use??

RUSS1951
11-22-2010, 05:34 AM
Hi Gromit, I have just purchased a Deutz F 5 L 912 with the idea of retro fitting into a mid sized truck to be used for towing my 7000lb boat. Would like to fit with an auto transmission. How would one go about finding out which transmission and rear ends would make the best fit. Are there after market bell housings that will work. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Russ

Ruffcorn
11-22-2010, 11:52 AM
Hello everyone! Sorry about my hiatus from this thread I have been very busy in the fields with harvest and tillage, plus doing some contract tillage for neighbors and friends. So I am back to answer any questions and help out with anything that I can.

llz355
01-25-2011, 09:58 PM
Working on an F3L912. Any suggestions for removing the brass access plugs in the heads to get to the head bolts? I have soaked them, heated them, applied an insane amount of torque them. They will not budge. Any tricks you can share?

Roland
02-03-2011, 08:09 AM
I think it was original to the motorhome. One reason is that there are lights on the dashboard pertaining to the diesel engine. I can't remember what the lights say, except that one of them might have been "water in fuel". The plate on the engine has it rated at 100 hp. One other thing that makes me think the engine was original is the fact that the radiator support, though it had no radiator, had a curved section to support the air filter canister. The curve looked factory, not like someone did it after the vehicle was built.

Hi, Dodge did offer an option of DEUTZ power. Below is a pic from a catalogue showing a BF6L913 , they may have use 5 cylinder models also ? But I have no more information

9874

Cheers

DieselSchlepper
02-03-2011, 09:02 AM
WELCOME Roland! Glad you decided to join us! Is Hugh, (Agfuels) OK. We have been a little concerned.

DieselSchlepper
02-03-2011, 09:03 AM
Hi Gromit, I have just purchased a Deutz F 5 L 912 with the idea of retro fitting into a mid sized truck to be used for towing my 7000lb boat. Would like to fit with an auto transmission. How would one go about finding out which transmission and rear ends would make the best fit. Are there after market bell housings that will work. Any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Russ

Welcome Russ! Did you get that in Mo? Did it have a 5spd attached?

Roland
02-03-2011, 10:15 AM
Hi DS.

Thanks for the welcome.
I do not know anything about Hugh. I emailed him in Jan. and Dec. and got no replies.
Now I'm concerned too.

Cheers
Roland:)

wguru
02-04-2011, 01:54 AM
Hello, I'm pulling out my remaining hair trying to figure out why my F5L-912 Deutz air-cooled 5-cyl (1980 Iveco) Z100's shifter 'suddenly' refused to engage reverse and first gear.

Just bought the used van here in the USA and it shifted sort of hard into reverse and first, the previous owner said to simply let out the clutch a little while going into reverse and first, but within a week of driving the van just a few miles, one morning it refused to engage in either reverse or first gears.

No issues with any of the running gears, when they do engage. And whatever model of trans I have, I'm unsure, but its probably the 2826 as I found a service manual online for the "2826.5" and it's shifter is attached directly into the front of the transmission body and the one I saw is for a 4X4 and mine's a 4X2 (moreover my shifter attaches to a long bar or tube that trails back along the side of and to the rear of the transmission).

The only adjustment I see is an 'all-thread' bar that attaches to the top right side of the top of the transmission and that all-thread bar crosses the top of the transmission, where another ball jointed turn-buckle style bolt then runs downward to that long tube or bar (the one that goes to the rear of the transmission as well as up front to where the shifter's linkage also attaches to this long bar).

We've tried shortening and lengthening the all-thread adjustment and while it results in being able to engage the right side of the i-shifter's gears (2,3,4&5), but then I can't engage the left side's reverse and 1st gears.

I'm pretty cure the issue is related to the shifter's linkage (probably someone worked on it and misplaced a washer or used wrong washer), but I can't find any source for determining what the shifter's part number is or more importantly, how its supposed to be correctly assembled.

I'll post back with a picture of the shifter, if it'll help.

DieselSchlepper
02-04-2011, 04:41 AM
That's a FIAT trans, right? The pics of the 2826.x have a top mixer shifter. My IVECO FIAT trans is a cab over with the shifter rod on the drivers side. Your's?

wguru
02-04-2011, 01:48 PM
Thanks for replying. Not able to confirm if it's a Fiat or Iveco, but by your reply, perhaps the 1980 Iveco Z100's trans might be made by Fiat. And yes the shifter does not connect directly to the transmission, by your reply (your Fiat transmission) you too have a shifter that is separately mounted to the front and left (driver's side) of the transmission.

Nevertheless, I'm hopeful that in my waking moments this morning, I may have resolved the issue as it dawned on me that yesterday when I looked at the shifter's swivel bolting assembly, not only was there a significant gap between the two NEW "flat" washers and that the swivel bolt's retaining nut was bottomed out on it's threaded stud, my initial thought yesterday was that it simply might need another washer as certainly the retaining nut wasn't designed to bottom out on the swivel bolt.

But this morning, it hit me (just before I opened my eyes), surely there must be a washer or spacer designed for use on a swivel bolting assembly. 'Instantly' recalled spherical washers and sure enough when I jumped up outta bed and went to the McMaster-Carr's online catalog, drilled down to the pages for washer's and spherical, not real surprisingly I found the only ones available are a (large assortment of sizes) all made to "DIN" standard (Deutsche Industrie Normen) with which the German affiliation is likely no coincidence (given that the Iveco engines were made in Germany and chassis assembly's were done I think in Italy at that time).

Anyway, I've ordered a set of the washers (to take up the gap where the flat washers are now), and thus I'm pretty sure the retaining nut won't be bottomed out any longer.

No doubt this is why the long bar isn't getting pushed over enough to engage the right side shifting gears.

My only hope is that the guy that did that work wasn't being paid for doing it. So I'm pretty darned sure that whoever last worked on the shifter, overlooked using the required spherical washer ($2.91) and yet I might be able to understand someone removing the old spherical washer set, their likely being stuck together and not readily seen as being special and as such, perhaps the 'mechanic' simply 'thought' a new set of washers (amounting to the same thickness as the old washer) might be suitable.

Again wouldn't surprise me that the old set was possibly rusted together (the 'mechanic' not realizing that they were in fact a set of spherical washers, probably discard them) and likely a rusted set of sphericals had caused the apparent initial shifting problems. Not much else would explain why the assemblies have new parts all around, ie; flat washers for the shifter's ball-swivel bolt as well as the new adjusting rod assembly (three segments of all-thread rods connected by the two ball-swivel joints essential are mounted across the top of the transmission body and connect it to the large shaft on the driver's side of the transmission).

Anyway, hopefully in a few days I can report back with joyful confirmation that the wrong washers were installed and simply using the correct washers as well as a liberal coating of marine grease between the mated pair of spherical washers, will have hopefully fixed the problem and it shouldn't again be of issue anytime soon.

Thanks again for the reply.

wguru
04-09-2011, 05:51 AM
Anyone the i-shifter for the know how to disassemble the 'FIAT-IVECO' (apparently that shifter only came with the Z100's having (I'm guessing mine's) a 2826 (or maybe tt's a 2828), ie; the i-shifter has R,1,2,3,4&5 gear positions?

I removed the inboard side's retaining nut from the swivel studs and the ball-jointed shaft head (that shaft is the one that goes straight back along side the engine to the driver's side of the transmission) refuses to budge (so I can replace the idiotically installed flat washers and replaced then with spherical washers like any real mechanic knows needs t be installed for swivel studs).

If so, kindly emale me at yourweldguratyahoodotcom.

homealone777
04-14-2011, 06:15 AM
Hello everyone!, My name is Trevor Ruffcorn i am a co-owner of Ruffcorn Farms. We currently have 8 FL 912 Air cooled deutz's that run our irrigation systems, ranging from the 6 cylinder all the way down to the 1 cylinder. We have turboed ones and N/A ones. The engines we own run up to 22 hours a day in the summer in upwards of 100 degree days. I am our deutz mechanic so i have a decent amount of experiance with these engines. If you have any questions about air cooled Deutz engines dont be afraid to ask! :beer:

Trevor
I'm interested in a price range for the 1,2,and3 cly N/A Duetz. I definitly am interested!

homealone777
04-17-2011, 02:31 AM
Hey, cRiPpLe_rOoStEr; Is it possible to get one of those Brazilian ''Kombie'' bus engines now. I have a VW Beetle based dunebuggy that me and my little woman
ride in the mountains of KY. She's wheelchair bound, and loves the mountains as I do; So I modified it so she could get in it. Worked out great! We don't go fast,
sometimes going all day in 1st & 2nd gear. But I trust a diesel so much better. I like the little 1500 air cooled gasser; But our gasoline here is going out the door, at least the quality sure is! If not one of those engines; would you have a better suggestion? I can work with watercooled diesels Lord Willing, no problem. I just would want one with as few electronics as possible. I'm a big fan of ''KISS'', simpley because of my situation with her. If it breaks down; Simple is the word. You know what the problem is sooner, which makes it easier to fix. I can't just leave her there to go get help; I have to know I can get it going out there. Also, is it possible to get a 1 or 2 cly Hatz Diesel for a generator and where might I look? Did'nt they use those on refrigerated trailers? I've seen them somewhere, I just can't remember where...All help would be appreciated.

bdelaporte
04-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Hello, I am new to the forum but recently bought a TAM 110 BV which is a Slovenian Troop Carrier that is still in use over in the Balkans. Mine is a 1986 model that came over as a surplus Serbian Border truck with about 79k on a Magirus-Deutz 4 cyl engine (F4 L413R), 5.88 ltr rated at 115 hp. I only have service manuals in Serbian and was hoping to find some english language files or books so I can do my own maintenance and basic repairs. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the truck has 2.5 ton axles with air locking differentials and brakes. It has a ZF 5 spd transmission and ZF transfercase. Thanks

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
04-17-2011, 07:54 PM
Hey, cRiPpLe_rOoStEr; Is it possible to get one of those Brazilian ''Kombie'' bus engines now. I have a VW Beetle based dunebuggy that me and my little woman
ride in the mountains of KY. She's wheelchair bound, and loves the mountains as I do; So I modified it so she could get in it. Worked out great! We don't go fast,
sometimes going all day in 1st & 2nd gear. But I trust a diesel so much better. I like the little 1500 air cooled gasser; But our gasoline here is going out the door, at least the quality sure is! If not one of those engines; would you have a better suggestion? I can work with watercooled diesels Lord Willing, no problem. I just would want one with as few electronics as possible. (...) Also, is it possible to get a 1 or 2 cly Hatz Diesel for a generator and where might I look? Did'nt they use those on refrigerated trailers? I've seen them somewhere, I just can't remember where...

currently the brazilian kombi is not offered with diesels, and when they were an option there was just the well-known watercooled 1.6idi... good option for a lightweight trail rig, an uncle of mine had one in a suzuki vitara... but maybe a kohler aircooled would meet your requirements reasonably and they seem to be easier to find in the u.s. than a hatz...

cRiPpLe_rOoStEr
04-17-2011, 07:59 PM
Hello, I am new to the forum but recently bought a TAM 110 BV which is a Slovenian Troop Carrier that is still in use over in the Balkans. Mine is a 1986 model that came over as a surplus Serbian Border truck with about 79k on a Magirus-Deutz 4 cyl engine (F4 L413R), 5.88 ltr rated at 115 hp. I only have service manuals in Serbian and was hoping to find some english language files or books so I can do my own maintenance and basic repairs. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the truck has 2.5 ton axles with air locking differentials and brakes. It has a ZF 5 spd transmission and ZF transfercase. Thanks

it seems to be a cool trail rig...

bdelaporte
04-19-2011, 05:04 PM
Any assistance on the F4L413R tech/service manuals would be a great help.... Thanks in advance for any assistance.


Hello, I am new to the forum but recently bought a TAM 110 BV which is a Slovenian Troop Carrier that is still in use over in the Balkans. Mine is a 1986 model that came over as a surplus Serbian Border truck with about 79k on a Magirus-Deutz 4 cyl engine (F4 L413R), 5.88 ltr rated at 115 hp. I only have service manuals in Serbian and was hoping to find some english language files or books so I can do my own maintenance and basic repairs. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the truck has 2.5 ton axles with air locking differentials and brakes. It has a ZF 5 spd transmission and ZF transfercase. Thanks

wguru
05-02-2011, 10:45 PM
That's a FIAT trans, right? The pics of the 2826.x have a top mixer shifter. My IVECO FIAT trans is a cab over with the shifter rod on the drivers side. Your's?

My Z100's shifter is like yours (mine is NOT the style that connects directly to the front of the engine).

The shifter's lower linkage connects to a one inch diameter control rod or control tube by way of a forged eyelet that has an integral swivel ball stud (the part I need replace as I'm uncertain if these can even be repaired (by replacing the swivel ball stud).

Maybe it's a FIAT shifter? But who made it, what's it part number and where can I find the eyelet and swivel ball stud??

Note the eyelet (that connects to the transmission's control rod/tube) is seen on left and the vertical connecting rod (that goes up to the lower end of the shifter's linkage on the right.

limited
08-31-2011, 02:59 PM
Hello..

Can you help me?

I have an engine..: A Deutz F2L 208 F. It is 17hp. aircooled. its original and is mounted in my minidigger. :)

I dont find any info about my excavator on the internet, but i need info about that too, but

What can you tell me about the engine?, and where to get parts for it?

Bjorn, Norway.

P.s. The machine is from 1986.

cocker
10-16-2011, 07:41 AM
I'm new and am not sure how to ask a question? I have a Deutz BF 3L 2011 that had a broken oil ring. I replaced all the rings and put it back together. When it starts it smokes so bad you can't see you hand in front of your face. It burns your eyes when it is running. How do I or can I adjust the injectors or the injector pumps? Thank You

DieselSchlepper
10-19-2011, 01:12 PM
Sounds like you needed to do something else. Did you check/hone the bores? Rings installed properly? What else did you do?

Goomer
11-20-2011, 12:49 PM
Trevor,

I have BF6L913C Deutz engine in a Gleaner combine. Engine starts great, runs smooth until it has been under load for 45 minutes to an hour. At this point the engine starts to lose power and will eventually stall if load is not removed. Have changed fuel filters, air filter, all flexible fuel lines to injection pump and transfer pump to final filter, changed overflow(relief) valve on return line, tank vent is open, gravity flow of fuel from tank is free and full line. Problem only occurs after engine is completely warm from operating under load. I don't see how it could be trash in fuel tank because it does not happen until after full load operation for some time. It has been suggested that the injection pump is at fault, but wouldn't that occur more randomly? My last guess is that the mechanical fuel lift pump make be malfunctioning after it get hot. I am open to any and all suggestions, because I am out of ideas. Needless to say this problem has made harvest a nightmare. Once engine cools everthing operates normally.

Goomer

brads
12-02-2011, 07:05 AM
I just bought a deutz d4506 farm tractor with the f3l912 motor. After removing the dash I've discovered rats have nesting in there and eaten the wiring beyond reconition. None of the electrical works except the starter circuit. Also the wiring behind the muffler has made contact with it and burnt and shorted all together, so none of the warning systems work (overheat, oil, etc.) . I am in the process of rewiring it, and I have a few questions...

There is a sensor on the top of the 3rd (back) cylinder from the fan and I assume this is an overheat sensor? It has only one wire going to it so does it just short to ground when it gets too hot to allow the light in the dash to shine? If so then I need to energize 12+ to the dash side of the bulb so that it will shine when overheated.

Then there is a sensor in the oil filter bracket that has only one wire going to it. Is this a low oil pressure sensor? Does it also short to ground when low on pressure? If so then it seems the light would be on when key-on engine-off.

Then there is a sensor before the intake heat coil that has two wire contacts on it. What is this sensor? Air flow or air intake temp? How should I hook it up to the dash bulbs?

Also can I test any of the sensors? (the heat sensor with a heat gun)?

I know that some of this wiring went to a kill relay I think, but I'm not concerned too much for that as I am very aware of my dash lights and I will also hook up a buzzer to warn me. The wiring is so bad that I can't even follow the old to understand.
Just don't want my tractor to overheat without me knowing it.
I appreciate your help.

wguru
03-04-2012, 08:34 PM
My 1980 Z100's F5L912's manual shifter problem solved by finally tracking down the faulty part and a supplier. The angle joint used on my shifter had worn out (allowing internal end play which prevented accessing one side of the H pattern of the shifter). The part's shipping was about the price of the angle-joint, just under $50 total, ref. fees for money conversion & shipping from Italy) for PN 855 8220.

info on who and where is currently constrained due to forum's 'new membership' guideline rules (I know because tried unsuccessfully to post the info)

Anyway, I've since acquired a service and also a parts manual, but not the holy grail (the 'engine's service manual).

Now I'm trying to find out how to best change my fuel filter (a single horizontal mounted spin-on can), ie; how to best get the air out once I've swapped out the cans. The filter's base has unused plugged openings at top and bottom, so I'm guessing that removing the top plug, then bottom will drain the filter can, then I suppose I simply swap out the can and just keep cranking until it evenly fires and runs?

I've yet to identify the fuel pump (it looks like it might be integrated with what looks like the injection pump's header), but I've yet to find a manual priming button (or any other info only how to do it with my model of single spin-on can).

frankf
04-10-2012, 07:03 PM
I'm really glad to find this thread. I hope someone can offer some advice. I have an early 70's Deutz D5506 that I hope to resurrect. It has sat dormant under my shelter for at least 7 yrs. Before my father retired, it was in constant use at our agri-business, but after retirment, the tractor fell into disuse. Anyway, I have recently decided to get it up and running and have come pretty close without too much of a headache. Today, however, the tractor threw me a curve ball. Thus far, I have taken care of the basics - new battery, oil change, fresh fuel, replaced the deteriorated air intake coupling, and cleared the fuel lines. I fired up the old girl and noticed that I was getting nothing from my throttle. In fact, upon starting her up, she immediately revved up to 2500 rpm and would not stop until I finally got the fuel valve shut off. Something is wrong, but I don't know what it is. I think my problem is possibly in my fuel injection pump, but I'm not very knowledgeable about deisel fuel systems. Can anyone offer some suggestions as to what I should do next? Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Frank

frankf
04-11-2012, 10:58 AM
13445

In the photo, you can see the Bosch fuel injection pump. In the center of the photo, under the injection lines appears to be a rectangular cover plate with two small bolts holding it in place. If I remove this cover plate and oil the entire area inside, will I possibly be able to free up whatever it is that is stuck? Thank you.

Frank

dutzman2
04-12-2012, 06:10 PM
Are you sure the throttle isn't sticking ? Hand throttle and foot throttle are connected with a linkage system, you have to make sure everything is moving smooth. Use some WD 40. After that tractor is sitting so long, I would change the oil on the injection pump as well. Good luck

40rovercj7
04-20-2012, 03:51 PM
I just purchased 2 F4l912s and they most likely both need to be rebuilt. My question is what flywheel and housing modifications am I getting into by installing one of these into my 81 Jeep cj7? I have the stock T5 Tranny which has always been good to me, will it be strong enough or should I upgrade to a nv4500? What are my alternatives?

fnemo
07-15-2012, 08:11 PM
Hi Trevor, I have Deutz L2011 3 cylinder diesel, the problem I am having is, the engine holds 9 qts of oil, the operator ran low on oil, 4.5 qts were drained out by me, i serviced the engine, Oil & filter, air filters, fuel filters, now when the engine is put under a load it looses power, i was wondering if i have a piston ring problem or something else, your advise will be helpful, thanks Fred

jackeduphitork
07-27-2012, 10:35 AM
Hello everyone!, My name is Trevor Ruffcorn i am a co-owner of Ruffcorn Farms. We currently have 8 FL 912 Air cooled deutz's that run our irrigation systems, ranging from the 6 cylinder all the way down to the 1 cylinder. We have turboed ones and N/A ones. The engines we own run up to 22 hours a day in the summer in upwards of 100 degree days. I am our deutz mechanic so i have a decent amount of experiance with these engines. If you have any questions about air cooled Deutz engines dont be afraid to ask! :beer:

Trevor

hello there trevor could you please tell me how to tear down the cooling fan on a fl5912 its making noise have a great day

Taylor123
08-18-2012, 01:25 PM
Hello,

I have a deutz F 3L 1011 F that has been installed on a 12" m&m drum chipper. When I get it to rev up and start chipping, it will die down and reduce to the idle rpm. Once it does this the throttle is unresponsive untill it idles for a few minutes, then I can rev it back up. What is the problem? Bad valve? Too hot? Bad fuel filter? I am a bit confused as to why an engine would not rev up if you move the throttle, unless there is some type of solenoid that is shutting the fuel down.

I just got the chipper and don't have much knowledge about this engine, so any advice or help would be much appreciated!

Taylor

chad
09-10-2012, 06:14 AM
Hi I'm new here I came across a forum thread about deutz and I came here hoping there would be some experienced diesel mechanics with a little deutz experience. I have a deutz dx160 a-s tractor with a 6cyl turbo engine (possibly BF6L913) It has a temp. sender in #6 cylinder head and I am trying to get some specific info on how to test the guage and sender. I read else where that the sensor in the head is a switch conected to a light, not so with mine. If I disconect the wire to the sensor the guage bottoms out. I am also wondering what a safe temp. would be for the heads as I have an infrared thermometer that I could check it with when the guage is reading high. It can get quite hot here in central Queensland Australia up to 47 degrees celcius but have been told that these engines will function in alot hotter environs than this. All help is most appreciated. Thanks

ckhenshaw4
09-10-2012, 06:53 AM
Chad,
There is a dealer here in Michigan call West Michigan Diesel, that deals strickly with Deutz Diesels. Their number is 888-463-3880. His name is Darrel, and he is EXCELLENT with those engines.
Give him a call, I am sure that he will be MORE than happy to help you.

Curt.

chad
09-11-2012, 05:04 AM
Thankyou Curt I will try and give West Michigan Diesel a call or email perhaps. It's incredibly difficult to get help even advice without paying handsomely over here. The VDO site wants 400Euros for an annual subscription just to get the guage and sender resistance values (local deutz sevice agent recomended the vdo site?). Another Question, does anyone know how the Viscous part of the blower fan works? Is there a valve that controls oil pressure to fan drive or is this just set by engine oil pressure? Thanks again.

underpaid
10-09-2012, 03:56 PM
I replacing a ford 2722e with a deutz bf4l913 and i don't know much about air cooled diesels. My main problem right now is the fuel pump. Ther is a fuel stop solinoid and two levers on it (it's a bosch pump). Can you help?

davematz
10-23-2012, 11:32 AM
Hi Trevor. I am doing some research for an amish friend of mine who has recently purchased a Duetz 5cyl F5L912. The engine seems to run fine but their seems to be a problem with the govenor which seems to drag the engine down. Neither one of us are very familiar with the functions of the govenor. The information we took off the govenor is It is a Bosch ROV 3000...1400 AB 1048 DL. If there is any help you can provide we would certainly appreciate it. Also, would it be possible to get your phone number and have him contact you? I would be glad to let him use my cell phone to contact you. Thanks, Dave Matz

conan
12-08-2012, 10:54 AM
Hey trevor, I have a f2l 912 10 .kw gen set I just rebuilt. I have to set the high idle up to about 65 Hz so it will run at 60 Hz under load do you know if there is a governor adjustment to help with this problem? This is an older 912 where the governor is incorporated in side casting where the plungers run off the can you help? Thanks Marty

440mad
12-20-2012, 09:59 PM
Hi Trevor, I'm new to this forum. Seems very worthwhile forum to ask for info.
I recently bought a Bomag twin vibrating roller bw120ad running a Deutz F2L511 twin cylinder
Engine. Supposedly, starts and runs. Yeah, it starts blows heaps of black smoke but won't run for too long approx 1 min before it shuts down.
Also, whilst running a knocking sound is evident. I pulled out the injectors got them rebuilt, new air filter, new fuel filter
And also clean out all the fuel lines and fuel tank. Started the engine again but still the same problem.
I took off the heads, all seems good except for one piston had excessive fuel sitting in the recess on top of the piston.
Just wondering if the knocking sound could be Desiel knock??
Also, if you could shed any ideas of what it could be and why the black smoke.

Deutz engine are not very big here in Australia and trying to get info is near impossible.
I can not find a workshop manual to download either.


Appreciate any help you can offer.

kensapplev
12-30-2012, 09:31 PM
Hi Trevor, I recently purchaced a small terex 11c loader and has what appears to be a 2cyl duetz. the mechanic that had worked on it before said it was a hanz diesel and couldnt find parts for it. I picked this up at an auction and no books or anything came with it. Are there any markings that would identify a deutz ? when this engine first starts up it almost sounds like its backfiring real loud but disappears like 15 seconds after its running. as soon as you touch the throttle the loud backfire is there for another 15 or 20 seconds. its not not really a backfire though because its running smooth. not misfiring. any ideas. I've looked all over the web to try to find
information on terex or duetz. thanks

Hurtinc11
01-21-2013, 04:22 PM
Hello everyone!, My name is Trevor Ruffcorn i am a co-owner of Ruffcorn Farms. We currently have 8 FL 912 Air cooled deutz's that run our irrigation systems, ranging from the 6 cylinder all the way down to the 1 cylinder. We have turboed ones and N/A ones. The engines we own run up to 22 hours a day in the summer in upwards of 100 degree days. I am our deutz mechanic so i have a decent amount of experiance with these engines. If you have any questions about air cooled Deutz engines dont be afraid to ask! :beer:

Trevor

Trevor I have a duetz f3l that runs good but will not iddle down when put in low iddle or even turning off it takes about 20 seconds to slow down any suggestions on what to look for ? seems that it is still having fuel fed to and through the injectors? Thanks Rob

mike bunch
02-22-2013, 04:57 AM
could you get more info and some pictures of the cj? i have a 43 willys and am considering a similar type of swap, only with a 3cyl deutz. thank you, mike bunch

dogstarb52
03-08-2013, 02:04 AM
I am need of parts numbers for a 1980 Iveco Z100.
Namely,
rear brake wheel cylinder
clutch master cylinder
clutch slave cylinder

parts numbers list

I know about riggiogiuseppo, but I need parts numbers to submit to them...

Thank you very kindly indeed

Flickded
03-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Hello Trevor!

I currently have a 1977 F2L912 Deutz Engine. How do I get the 2 fuel injectors out of this?

Thanks in advance.

Rick Westendorf
05-13-2013, 04:43 PM
Hi Trevor, My name is Rick Westendorf. I have a 4 cylinder Deutz in Snorkle Boom Lift. There is a oil line on the front cylinder at the base of the injectors is leaking. Can I just push it off and replace with a new line or do I have to take the radiator off. The oil line runs up into a tee at the top of the cylinder through a red rubber tube. The red tube is secured to the injector pipe with zap strap. The oil line is leaking down onto the oil filter. Can you help? Sincerely Rick.

blondfarmer
07-08-2013, 10:50 AM
Hi I have a R62 series gleaner combine 1994 air cooled engine the engine head temperature sensor keeps going off and I would like to know if you can tell me where to locate the sensor so i can figure out the problem

403oldsman
07-19-2013, 09:10 AM
Hi I have a R62 series gleaner combine 1994 air cooled engine the engine head temperature sensor keeps going off and I would like to know if you can tell me where to locate the sensor so i can figure out the problem
What series of engine do this have.

FokkenDeutz
09-13-2013, 08:18 AM
Hello. I love this forum! I just bought a ford step van. 1980. Deutz F5L 912. Torqueflite 727. I am planning a introductory post with pictures and a build-up story. For now, I just need help with v-belts. I have done my due diligence, and searched everywhere on the net. It looks like I may have to remove the belts and bring them to my local auto parts dealer? Ruffcorn, Silo, or Schlepper, any of you got the part numbers? Thanks in advance, Fokken.

dutzman2
09-13-2013, 07:28 PM
If the belt only runs the cooling fan and the altenator, you can just call a Deutz tractor dealership and ask for a belt for a DX 90 ( exactly same engine ) . If the belt also runs AC, it might be a little more complicated and you might better off taking it off.

pyro1955
05-15-2014, 01:08 PM
Hi, I have a Deutz 4506 with the F3L912 engine, I was uninformed about the fact that the Bosch Injector pump on it did not get it's oil supply from the engine and therefore did not change or put oil in the pump last spring, It started squeaking, and I finally figured it out, it runs, but not well anymore, I am pretty sure I need a new pump, and or injectors, does anyone have a source for these??? And how badly am I going to hurt my pocket book???

Other than this very unfortunate incident, it is a great little tractor.

msapp
05-20-2014, 01:23 PM
Lost number 3 piston, had block bored head decked new rings main and rod bearings. my brother set the timing the first time and bent the push rods, i have since torn all the way back down checked everything i know of, put back together and retimed per the book each step with the pins but it seems like the valves are out of time, there is no compression in the engine when turning over and it is puffing out of the intake as well as the exaust? any tips would be helpfull, could the exaust valves be opening when the intake valves should be?bounce







Hello everyone!, My name is Trevor Ruffcorn i am a co-owner of Ruffcorn Farms. We currently have 8 FL 912 Air cooled deutz's that run our irrigation systems, ranging from the 6 cylinder all the way down to the 1 cylinder. We have turboed ones and N/A ones. The engines we own run up to 22 hours a day in the summer in upwards of 100 degree days. I am our deutz mechanic so i have a decent amount of experiance with these engines. If you have any questions about air cooled Deutz engines dont be afraid to ask! :beer:

Trevor