: old remote canister oil filter (help needed)



454cid
10-16-2010, 10:17 AM
I picked this up at an auction a few years ago, thinking that I'd use it as a by pass filter. It was horribly dirty, and it mostly just sat in the garage. Well, it's clean now, but I can't figure out how it works. I can't see how oil is actually filtered as I don't see a clear path through the media.

The filter cartridge actually moves up and down when the whole thing is assembled. Plus, there is no good seal between the cartridge and the filter canister body, or center post.

Here are my pictures on Photobucket:

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/oil%20filter/

It almost identical to the filter I saw on a Detroit 2-71 recently, but mine has no writing on the lid.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/th_IMG_3287.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/?action=view&current=IMG_3287.jpg)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/th_IMG_3288.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/?action=view&current=IMG_3288.jpg)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/th_IMG_3289.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/?action=view&current=IMG_3289.jpg)
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/th_IMG_3290.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/?action=view&current=IMG_3290.jpg)

dahoyle
10-16-2010, 08:34 PM
Not something I would even mess with. They are messy, and offer no advantage over a modern design with thread on cartridges.

As to the movement between the cartridge and the housing, well, the easy assumption is that it doesn't have the right one installed in it, if there is no seal anywhere, and it rattles around in there.

Do yourself a favor, and use it as shop art, or something along those lines.

454cid
10-16-2010, 10:53 PM
Not something I would even mess with. They are messy, and offer no advantage over a modern design with thread on cartridges.

As to the movement between the cartridge and the housing, well, the easy assumption is that it doesn't have the right one installed in it, if there is no seal anywhere, and it rattles around in there.

Do yourself a favor, and use it as shop art, or something along those lines.

Well, I'd like to use it if I can. It can't be any worse than the spin on my 454...... mounted sideways it dumps oil on various parts of the truck as I remove it, so I get multiple streams of oil going into the pan.

I wondered about the cartidge not being right. I've also wondered if maybe I'm missing some parts. I've never seen one of these disassembled, so I don't know what's normal and what's not.

Ever hear of Allstate filters? I can't find any cross reference for that number on the top of the cartridge.

BobS
10-17-2010, 08:24 AM
Allstate was the big automotive line of Sears & Roebuck, batteries, tires, oil, oil filters, etc. NAPA used to sell the replacement filters for that housing. Take the physical dimensions of the cartridge or the housing with you. This style of filter is also found on older farm tractors. It's been around since the 1930's. I believe it was listed as an engine option back then.

454cid
10-17-2010, 03:08 PM
Allstate was the big automotive line of Sears & Roebuck, batteries, tires, oil, oil filters, etc. NAPA used to sell the replacement filters for that housing. Take the physical dimensions of the cartridge or the housing with you. This style of filter is also found on older farm tractors. It's been around since the 1930's. I believe it was listed as an engine option back then.

I beleive Allstate is before my time, but it does sound familier. I guess that was before Diehard. Thank you, that helps........ I'm still mystified on how the oil is forced through the filter, Though. Would there be some rubber seals on the filter cartridge that have rotted away from the old one?

dahoyle
10-17-2010, 03:58 PM
Well, I'd like to use it if I can. It can't be any worse than the spin on my 454...... mounted sideways it dumps oil on various parts of the truck as I remove it, so I get multiple streams of oil going into the pan.

I wondered about the cartidge not being right. I've also wondered if maybe I'm missing some parts. I've never seen one of these disassembled, so I don't know what's normal and what's not.

Ever hear of Allstate filters? I can't find any cross reference for that number on the top of the cartridge.


Well, If you take it somewhere that speciaizes in providing filter services to large construction outfits, they could probably hook you up, but it still isn't worth the effort, unless you just feel like you have too much tied up in it to let it go. There is no comparison to that design and a spin on cartridge on a block, even if it is poorly mounted. That thing has to be cleaned out when you change the filter, and as I said, offers not one advantage, other than you have it. There are plenty of options for remote filter setups, that work very well, and don't leave you with a housing that has to be cleaned out.

Do what you like, I was just providing you with some of the facts. It can probably be matched up, and will work fine, but it just adds more drudgery and mess to an already messy job, when you need to change the filter cartridge. At least on the other designs of the day, the casing came off leaving only the top, so you could drop the casing in a parts washer. That thig stays on, and the lid comes off, but it still needs to be cleaned out when you change the filter cartridge.

454cid
10-17-2010, 04:42 PM
........... At least on the other designs of the day, the casing came off leaving only the top, so you could drop the casing in a parts washer. That thig stays on, and the lid comes off, but it still needs to be cleaned out when you change the filter cartridge.

Why would it need to be cleaned? I don't see why draining and installing a new cartridge wouldn't be enough. The engine and oil pan don't get cleaned, just new oil.

Drain it, pull the top off, pull the cartridge, drop a new cartridge in, fill with oil, bolt cover back on, and presto...... all done! Why is that hard or too messy?

JimmieD
10-17-2010, 08:04 PM
That looks like an AC Delco 'Military Senior' Bypass Oil Filter. It doesn't get much better than that if it is. Can't tell much from the pictures, and with no measurement or numbers or description given!

Bypass filters only filter a 'sample' of oil. Full flow filters weren't used on vehicles many years back and instead systems like this were used. These take a smaller sample of oil than a flo-thru, and super clean it. A common bypass filter's filtration media will be maybe .50 Micron media. That's not 500 micron, or 50, or even 5, but .5 as 1/2 half micron!

Many knowledgable lubrication pros say that a quality bypass filtration system can more than double the life of an engine! In addition, many say that with the ultra-fine cleaning of the oil you may never have to change your oil again, for the lifetime of the engine! Instead change filtration cartridge, add makeup oil for amount abosorbed in cartridge & get back on the road. As long as it hasn't overheated to cause shearing etc. you're good to go.

I have one installed but not fully plumbed into my truck. Lots of research revealed that bypass filtration with a .5 micron filter is absolutely as good as it gets for a 'Lifetime' engine! No other filter offers a higher level of filtration and engine protection.

A similar, or possibly identical unit: the Frantz toilet paper filter. Every bit as good and uses TP roll for the super-filtration media. Scott 1,000 sheet is the best media for the Frantz.

Search some!

With proper cartridge the pressurized oil passes through one small tube into housing and across outside of media or filter. It's then slowly forced through filter and super cleaned, to then be returned to sump via another fitting & line. It cleans a much lower volume of oil at a time, but cleans it so completely that it is virtually new oil when it's returned to sump.

Some use a standard flo-thru, with a bypass system as secondary. Others like mine will just use the bypass, as it's the only filter that removes ALL OF THE DIESEL SOOT! That soot is just about the number one killer of diesel engines.

454cid
10-18-2010, 10:39 PM
That looks like an AC Delco 'Military Senior' Bypass Oil Filter. It doesn't get much better than that if it is. Can't tell much from the pictures, and with no measurement or numbers or description given!

Did you look at the big pictures that I linked to? The smaller pictures are thumbnails of a simialr filter I saw at an auction.

I'll have to look again, but I don't think there are any numbers on my filter. Just the words "inlet" and "outlet". It looks like it probably holds a quart.

JimmieD
10-18-2010, 11:12 PM
http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/oil%20filter/

I looked at those pictures at link above, and only one showed a pic of cannister, disassembled & laying on its side.

It still looks like a 'Military Senior' as I first posted, and the rest of what I said still applies. These same general types of units were also used in the 40' & 50's, at least on engines that did have oil filtration. Many had no oil filtration back then.

Get your measurements then look up an AC Delco Military Senior or Military Junior cartridge to see how it matches on dimension. A similar unit uses toilet paper as mentioned.

It is a good idea to wipe out cannister with a rag when changing filter.

tempforce
10-18-2010, 11:21 PM
i added a franz filter as a bypass filter to suppliment the full flow filter on my ranger. it does help....
the canister filter you are using, is still used on older farm equipment. try checking a farm supply or heavy equipment repair shop...
cc

454cid
10-19-2010, 12:26 AM
Get your measurements then look up an AC Delco Military Senior or Military Junior cartridge.......

Hmm, I did a "military junior" search. The senior appears to be too big. Unless the junior turns out to be it, I'll be looking at stovebolt GM filters, for the 235. The housing isn't exact, but I think the size is close.


I looked at those pictures at link above, and only one showed a pic of cannister, disassembled & laying on its side.

Edit#1 Sorry about that........ sometimes I get so focused on taking pictures of details, I forget the overall picture.

Edit #2......... Do you need to see more than this? It's one of the click-able thumbnails I posted above. It is identical too mine, but has stamped numbers on the lid, and larger lines.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/cfernandez_2007/Detroit%20Diesels/IMG_3288.jpg

I'm thinking it is the Military Junior, which takes the same elements I've been looking at for the GM 235. I have to go to NAPA tomorrow to exchange tie-rod (broke pulling out of the driveway) and I'll have them pull a filter.

454cid
10-19-2010, 12:57 AM
I think I found the info I need......... I'll have to bring it inside tomorrow to do some measuring.

http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/oil%20filters/index.html

JimmieD
10-19-2010, 08:36 AM
That's a real helpful page at Stovebolt. Unfortunately his narrative style instead of technical doesn't include key info or make it easy to find, like the number 1 question on all of these: DIMENSIONS!???

That's why I was asking you for the measurements of your unit.

Thanks though, because I now have more info on my own AC Delco unit now and can find out exactly what it is. We may have the same unit, but I won't find out until later. Cold, wet, rainy out, I'll wait till sunup...

I was told by a military vehicle expert that he thought mine was a Military Senior series but now I don't think so.I know mine doesn't have any cutout notches in the lid and it's shorter than the Senior. Also it has a shallow lid, not deeper recesses, and angled shallow bottom, not the deeper rounded bottom [I think]. The brackets are another key factor. We'll see, huh?

454cid
10-19-2010, 01:48 PM
The diameter is 5" which goes along with my thinking I have an S-6. The center post is about 6 3/4" measured with a tape measure........ not sure it it's hitting the bottom because of the taper. The 8"+ height the Stovebolt page mentions must be for a fully assembled unit...... center bolt and all. I still have to clean this thing up more. All the heavy grease is gone, but what's left is paint that is powdery and old grease in the threads.

I checked with NAPA on the 1100 filter, and they didn't have one in stock. I think it's taller than the old Allstate filter I have, which is good, because it seemed too short to me.

JimmieD
10-19-2010, 11:56 PM
I got busy with other stuff today and completely forgot to measure mine! I think mine's the same as yours, or real close.

To use as a bypass filter you want a very fine media filter. Normal filters are maybe 20 micron, but a bypass wants to be down there in .5 micron territory.

454cid
10-20-2010, 02:03 AM
I got busy with other stuff today and completely forgot to measure mine! I think mine's the same as yours, or real close.

To use as a bypass filter you want a very fine media filter. Normal filters are maybe 20 micron, but a bypass wants to be down there in .5 micron territory.

1/2 a micron? I don't think we're going to do that with these canisters, unless we could get a hold of a filter from another application that is the same size. I don't know what the Wix filters are rated for....... they're bypass, but I find conflicting micron ratings, or missing ratings. I may email Wix. Supposedly my local Orielly has the Wix filter........ I'll stop by tomorrow (ok today, technically).

Does your filter have just one little hole in the side of the center post?

BobS
10-20-2010, 06:16 AM
1/2 a micron? I don't think we're going to do that with these canisters, unless we could get a hold of a filter from another application that is the same size. I don't know what the Wix filters are rated for....... they're bypass, but I find conflicting micron ratings, or missing ratings. I may email Wix. Supposedly my local Orielly has the Wix filter........ I'll stop by tomorrow (ok today, technically).

Does your filter have just one little hole in the side of the center post?

I could be wrong but I believe most oil fired furnaces use a similar filter rated at .5 micron. It's the "string" type.

454cid
10-20-2010, 06:56 AM
I could be wrong but I believe most oil fired furnaces use a similar filter rated at .5 micron. It's the "string" type.

That's not what these canisters take, although, I did run across a good picture of what you're talking about while searching for information. Those filters have a cup type thing attached to the underside of the lid that sort of contains the "string".

JimmieD
10-20-2010, 10:37 AM
I'm pretty sure I located a 1/2 micron filter awhile back, I'll try to hunt it down.

454cid
10-21-2010, 11:16 AM
I took a look at the 51100 and the 51006 from Wix yesterday. Oreilly's had both. The 51006 comes with two gaskets, where the 51100 only had one. They look the same other than that. I'm going to send WIX a message and see if they'll give me the micron ratings. The Wix website calls both filters "by-pass", but gives micron rating of 30 to the 51006 (that's just straining the gravel out!), but NAPA lists 10 microns for their version of the filter. No micron rating is given for the 51100, although it is labeled as a by-pass.

JimmieD
10-21-2010, 12:59 PM
Measured mine this morning and it's roughly 5" x 10", not welded cannister. No washer-head bolt. Looks like this one: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/oil%20filters/9.jpg

Unfortunately the Stovebolt page doesn't give any measurements for the L1 Series or L4 Series so no clues there. Apparently the S1 was 4 5/8" diameter, S2 5" [same as mine] and S2 is 115/8" which Stovebolt says is 'larger than S1" but S1 measurements not given.

L5 was "larger than L4" but again, no measurement given. He does say S6 was 8 1/2" x 5".

Description of SC-650 says that it was the first unit where drain plug was omitted, and mine has no drain plug, so that gets me closer anyways. SC-650 also had a spot welded bracket, as does mine. There's one on each side, wrapping around some, heavy stamped steel spot welded to each side, 3 1/4" height.

Pic of SC-255 looks very similar but not quite identical to mine: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/oil%20filters/34.jpg

Stovebolt used the same picture for SC-255 & SC-259, don't know what's up with that?

Finally, in number SC-659, trying to unravel all he says and looking at picture, it's like mine but looks much shorter: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/oil%20filters/37.jpg

From all that mine is closest to SC-255, until he says SC-260 has inlet on opposite side, firewall side, exactly like mine! So, even though no measurements are given, mine's no washerhead bolt, no drain plug, correct brackets, inlet in right place, same top cover with dimples on sides of rim, SC-260 sounds/looks like the exact one I have!

"SC-260 Series
The two quart unit was available through the parts department from 1960 through 1963 under part number 5576615 and AC designation SC-260. Its appearance was the same as the unit shown in image #34 except for the inlet line location, which was on the firewall side of the filter (as installed)."

JimmieD
10-21-2010, 01:24 PM
I had this filer element listed under my Bypass Filter info so maybe it's the right on for mine, don't know about yours? Has some info on cross reference nuumbers that might help you?

http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=87129F

JimmieD
10-21-2010, 01:37 PM
UNBELIEVABLE 454CDI!!

Thank you!

I went looking for a filter element, thinking I'd bought one some time back. During the search I stumbled upon my 2 missing spray paint guns, AWOL for over a year haha!!!!

Man, talk about 'Make my day' in Aces & spades! Didn't find a filter but come spring I'll be painting the truck....?

THANKS! [insert smiley haha]

454cid
10-21-2010, 02:27 PM
It sounds like your canister takes the military senior cartridge, and mine take the junior.......... it was the Senior that crossed over to Detroit Diesels (even though the one I saw at the auction had the shorter filter).

You must have more patience than me....... I still haven't tried to sift through all the info on that Stovebolt page. I'm pretty sure mine is some sort of S-6, but I don't know how he comes up with the rest........ he seems to mention stuff with no other references to what he's talking about.

How do you lose spray guns? Glad you found them!

JimmieD
10-21-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm almost positive mine's a Military Senior by measurements and from info gotten from Military Vehicles experts. Yours may well be a Military Junior But I don't know without overall measurements. Info here on Military Junior:

http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?t=2599

Might want to take the cannister & lid etc. with you to the store when you go, do a trial fit.

I put the spray guns in a VERY SAFE PLACE, too safe......

454cid
10-21-2010, 06:26 PM
I'm almost positive mine's a Military Senior by measurements and from info gotten from Military Vehicles experts. Yours may well be a Military Junior But I don't know without overall measurements. Info here on Military Junior:

http://www.g741.org/PHPBB/viewtopic.php?t=2599

Yes that was one of the threads I read while searching with Google. They say the 1006 is shorter than a 1100, but from specs I've seen online, and the two filters I examined in person, that's not the case. They are the same size.

I think my canister is a civilian AC unit that uses the same cartridge as a military junior. When I first got it, I think it had remnants of the yellow AC decal on the lid, just like the units on the Stovebolt page.



Might want to take the canister & lid etc. with you to the store when you go, do a trial fit.

I would but it's dirty. I know I said it was clean, earlier in the thread, but what I should have said was that I got all the heavy grease off. I used several cleaners and they turned the old paint into dust that rubs off. I still need to get some grease off in the threads too. I don't think Oreilly's would want me doing a test fit. I'm pretty sure the physical size will be fine.