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Cummins, Perkins into Automatic (C4 - C6) Fords.

24K views 13 replies 10 participants last post by  2wpuller 
#1 · (Edited)
Evening fellas,
I have visitted this site a quite a LOT in the past 2 years but some misdirections and misinformation, that sounds like a couple Dream Conversions or just plain Awesome Projects were about to get the deep 6, got me to join in tonight. ;)
There are Commercial Aircraft Ground Service Equipment Mfg's that have been BOLTING Ford C4 & C6's to Perkins 4.236, 4.248 and the newer 1004.4 Engines since the 70's. THOUSANDS OF THEM...........
These GSE Equipment Mfgs are Tug, Tug Technologies, Clark (the same Forklift people), Hardan, Wollard, Tiger and NMC (Northwestern), just to name a few, right HERE in the USA!
They all use a basic 1" thick adaptor plate for the bellhousing and spacer for the flex plate.
The Vacuum Modulator is replace with a cable operated mechanical unit.
Since the 4BT, 6BT, and the 4.203 up to the 6.354 Perkins engines all have a rear block bolt pattern to allow the Class 3 and Class 4 bellhousings to be attached, these swaps may be a LOT Easier/Cheaper.
I have been a Peterburough UK Certified Perkins Diesel Tech since 1979. I have seen and/or read of Perkins Diesel engines in all kinds of applications Worldwide, including the 60's to late 70's Plymouth Valiants and Dodge Dart Taxi cabs built for South America, Spain and Africa. All of those used the factory passenger car A833 4spds behind the 4.203 Perkins.
Before you give up on that dream, or are belittled by the uninformed, into thinking you'll drop a TON of cash for some one off special adaptor plate, look into these companies for what they have been using for YEARS.
Good luck my friends.
Terry
 
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#3 · (Edited)
[QUOTE\] On the tug applications, do you know what Ford bellhousing pattern they are using??? Did they ever build any manual trans. versions??[/QUOTE]
First they used the C-4 from beind the 300 L6, then the C-6. Now I am told BOTH (4&6) had the same bolt pattern??? Not sure.
Somebody let me know, OK?
Only Kubota Bag Tugs had their 3 cyl. Diesel and their own standard trans up into the early 90's.
Sticks were considered too complicated for operators, and too costly to repair. Everybody dropped them mid 80's.
Today Wollard has their Deautz 4cyl Diesel adapted/attached to the C-6 still.
Quite a while ago NMC (Northwestern) actually had the older Flathead Chrysler I6 engines (NOT CONTINENTAL) bolted to (with an aluminum adaptor) the newer Aluminum 727 Mopar trans on into the mid 60's.... Clark was one of the last to use the Slant/6 (obviously with its own 727) into the early 80's.
I'm in the middle of a complete o/haul of my newer 1004.4 Perkins that HAS this C-6 conversion adaptor with it. I want to mate it (Ford Bolt pattern) to an AMC/Jeep Cherokee (4.0) 727 Mopar trans.
This is the main reason I popped in here a while back to see what the rest of the world has accomplished along these lines. Like most folks I need to do this right yet economically.
Terry
 
#4 ·
Due to the pile of parts in this garage and my unfamiliarity with the Ford C6 & C8 trans bolt patterns, I was hoping somebody would jump in here with wether they are the same or different??????
Different in 300-L6 and small block Ford or even Big Block Ford?????
I didn't get the trans with this Perkins, out of a TUG Belt Loader, circa 1999.
Any help here will save me a ton of time and hunting.
Thanks in advance.
Terry
 
#5 · (Edited)
Due to the pile of parts in this garage and my unfamiliarity with the Ford C6 & C8 trans bolt patterns, I was hoping somebody would jump in here with wether they are the same or different?????? Terry
The Ford 300 I-6 has the same bolt pattern as the 302/5.0/351W/5.8 engines, the small-block pattern. C-4 and C-6 transmissions are available to fit this pattern and generally more common that the big-block versions.

The easiest way to tell the SBF version from the BBF version is to measure across the top two bellhousing bolt holes on the tranny. The SBF ia about 5.125", the BBF is 7.75".
HTH, Joe
 
#6 ·
THANK YOU A TON.
This has had me dead in my tracks for a while.
Now I need to redrill my existing C-6 bolt pattern adaptor on my Class #4 bell housing to a small block Mopar 727 (or find an adaptor already drilled for this) and I'm IN.
Note: I went on the TUG Technologies web sight and they are STILL (2011 Sales Brochure) bolting the new Perkins 1104C-44 (269ci) AND the Deutz D2011L04 (189ci) to the Ford C-6 with parts off their shelf every day.
Terry
 
#7 ·
Years ago (late 70's early 80's) I worked for a Massey dealer. We had a 73 ford 3/4 ton pickup that originally had a 390. After the 390 vented the block we installed a NA 354 perkins mated to the auto trans. It used and adapter plate about an inch thick. I don't remember any spacer on the crankshaft. The set up used the original flexplate with the odd hole filed to make it even. Well to make a long story short the transmission died and we replaced it with a manual 4 speed. The bell housing that fit was from a 390 or 360 truck. Eventually the engine needed refreshing and I re frreshed it with an engine of many. Block 8600 White, Head 510 Massey, turbo and manifolds off a 760 Masey, an overhaul kit for a turbo engine, new turbo rods, all other pieces salvaged from broken engines. It would not win a speed race, but when pulling loads it was a neat truck to drive as long as you weren't in a hurry. abt 60 was top speed, up hill down hill wherever. By the way we eliminated the vacuum booster and installed the hydraulic booster and master cylinder from a GM car. The best part of the conversion was when you pulled into a public place, not many people were used to hearing a diesel in a small truck and would often give the truck wierd looks.
 
#8 ·
in the late 70,s i had picked up a C600 military dodge with a 354 perkins---started asking around for information and found our street dept sweepers were 354 perkins bolted to chrysler 727 automatics---wildcat diesel shops were putting the 354 into any fullsize pickups you wanted IH chev ford dodge--i saw one dodge setup and it too was mounted to a 727--the only other one seen by me was a ford to a manual---bob
 
#9 ·
Good info on the Tug tec, Thanks

Dale
 
#10 ·
Hello,

I am new to this site but I have seen your truck on a lot of sites,(VERY NICE CONVERSION !)
I am the owner of a late model salvage yard in Delaware and have always wanted to do this,I have acquired a 04 F250 4x4 gas x-cab truck that was hit down l side for cheap and i want to put a 1974 Perkins 354 out of a combine in it i have also acquired from a neighbor farmer with 2600 very well taken care of hours on it non turbo motor serial # 354UA48117 , i am very familiar with the Perkins family of motors as we have Massey tractors,Power units and such on the farm.I have also read and understand about the harmonics in the balancer (thanks by the way),I know i will probably either have to go with a gear vendors over drive if i choose to use the current trans and transfer case assy,my question is there any where i can acquire a adapter to adapt this 354 to a ford modular 5.4 trans ? and where if any place can i find a balancer ? (been looking ).Also i have seen in one of your earlier post you had a turbo ex manifold you might want to sell as i am thinking of adding a small amount of boost as i believe the motor will handle it. Thanks Bret
 
#14 ·
S & W Diesel in California their a Perkins dealer.i have gotten some parts from them very nice people.

Dale
 
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