: High Mount AC



rube bonet
05-22-2013, 11:58 AM
I have got some more interest in the f800/ freightliner High Mount AC set ups, and noticed the used prices were still quite high.:eek:

These are current retail prices from Rocky Mountain Cummins...any cummins dealer in your area should be able to get them.

3930888 Water inlet (The big cast piece)------------166.91
3930820 Alt support mount---------------------------29.14
3920862 Alt brace (does not work with dodge outlet)--31.31
3978021 Belt tensioner------------------------------158.35
3921382 Belt tensioner bracket-----------------------42.47
3906697 Rec O ring-----------------------------------3.23


The high mount ac (i guess really a mid mount ac) uses a 95 f800 compressor and 22 si alternator. I used it in a 6bt Chevy to clear the frame rails, but it works great in a lot of different applications. The other advantage on a 4bt is that you can still use the front lower motor mount area.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/robbonney/P9040137-1.jpg (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/robbonney/media/P9040137-1.jpg.html)

You will still need a water inlet that matches your set up, also a pretty easy part to fab yourself. I also made a new tensioner bracket, but it would have been very simple to modify the stock part, it is just a chunk of flat 3/8 plate.
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/robbonney/P9040139-1.jpg (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/robbonney/media/P9040139-1.jpg.html)

The alternator brace won't work with the dodge outlet (not with out trimming a LOT of meat off of it), so I sell a custom bracket that allows you to uses the oulet. You can also change the outlets to a straight up style, which also works well, better in many cases.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz30/robbonney/P9040136-1.jpg (http://s810.photobucket.com/user/robbonney/media/P9040136-1.jpg.html)

legendman
05-27-2013, 11:38 AM
Great info, thanks for posting.
Will be calling Cummins Tuesday.

Apittslife
05-27-2013, 07:36 PM
Kewl many thanks! This fixes My 4BT problem with putting AC on it

ambulancechser
05-28-2013, 12:02 AM
curious as to the part number of the sanden AC compressor you usd...

legendman
05-28-2013, 12:38 PM
Got prices on these parts from my local Cummins dealer
in Rocky Hill, CT

3930888 Water inlet (The big cast piece)------------188.61
3921382 Belt tensioner bracket-----------------------77.24
3906697 Rec O ring-----------------------------------3.23

Not sure why the big difference in prices, but still cheaper than some of the used setups out there

legendman
05-28-2013, 01:39 PM
Also does anybody know if a 2nd gen Dodge A/C Compressor will work? I would have to order the high mount bracket direct from factory

rube bonet
05-28-2013, 03:30 PM
The 2nd gen dodge one won't work. I don't remember the model compressor it was offhand, but the application I used was a 1995 Ford F800 with a 5.9, and IIRC it was bought from the dealership.

.

trackspeeder
05-28-2013, 05:21 PM
Got prices on these parts from my local Cummins dealer
in Rocky Hill, CT

3930888 Water inlet (The big cast piece)------------188.61
3921382 Belt tensioner bracket-----------------------77.24
3906697 Rec O ring-----------------------------------3.23

Not sure why the big difference in prices, but still cheaper than some of the used setups out there

Thanks. I was going to call them this week. :D

legendman
05-30-2013, 10:00 AM
The 2nd gen dodge one won't work.

Argh deal breaker for me just got a 2nd gen compressor, I will hack up my frame and reinforced after I get the compressor mounted.
I am not spending more money on another compressor

oldroofer
05-30-2013, 12:35 PM
Is a vertical oil filter required, If so I will be needing one.

odee1
06-06-2013, 04:25 PM
what belt are you guys running with the mid mount ford ac? Get ready to try to bolt the parts on and want to have the belt ready to go. thanks

CaseyS
06-08-2013, 09:36 AM
OK, I'm going this same direction too in a Hummer H3 buildup (build thread coming soon). Picked up the following from Cummins Mid-South yesterday :

3930888 - bracket $158.13
3930820 - lower alt support $27.60
3920862 - upper alt arm $29.66
3930838 - tensioner bracket $40.05

Add $18.05 freight charge and taxes to the above.

Couple of questions :

1) It looks like I have a different tensioner bracket 3930838 vs 3921382. I noticed that the tensioner with this bracket has only about 10 deg of rotation before it contacts the front case. I may have a little bolt slop to shim it forward a tad. Are these two brackets different?

2) I have upper water outlet 3914409 which points straight up which should work well with this combo. No interference.

3) Lower water inlet I have 3903103 which points forward and down. This will interfere and not work. Is the 3916625 inlet which points straight to the passenger side the preferred/common part used in this combo?

4) Can someone confirm the 4474 sanden will work with the horizontal filter arrangement? I have seen conflicting information.

Edit : I just noticed I've been lurking here for 2 years before my first post. I've sponged up so much information from this site its not even funny.

CaseyS
06-14-2013, 09:08 PM
The 3930888 bracket will not work with the horizontal filter arrangement. I'll post some pictures here once my post count allows.

For now I'm going with a custom bracket to mount my existing ac compressor up top and the alternator below. The alternator is slimmer than the ac compressor allowing it to squeeze in front of the filter in the traditional location. I'm mocking up an arrangement now which should keep everything below the valve cover height.

CaseyS
06-19-2013, 09:25 AM
Reference pictures for the Freightliner bracket and the horizontal filter. This setup will not work.
18027
18028

David Kennedy
06-29-2013, 11:07 AM
Rob,
Do you know what length belt this setup requires? I'm using the same combination you have, but the truck is 60 miles away from me, and I can't measure it.

rube bonet
06-29-2013, 12:23 PM
Rob,
Do you know what length belt this setup requires? I'm using the same combination you have, but the truck is 60 miles away from me, and I can't measure it.

Sorry, but not offhand...I'll see if I can dig up it up.

David Kennedy
07-01-2013, 09:23 PM
The setup I have looks to require a 67-inch belt. I am not thrilled by the amount of belt wrap this setup puts on the A/C compressor (I think it needs more)--but perhaps the 8-rib belt is enough to overcome the drag?

David Kennedy
07-02-2013, 08:24 PM
67 inches is too short, but it should be less than 69.5 inches long. I'll post up when I find a belt we think fits well.

rube bonet
07-03-2013, 09:02 AM
I couldn't look the belt number up, the truck it was in is currently in pieces with no belt in sight.

Are you running the belt like the f800? crank-tensioner-compressor-alt-water pump- fan? I was worried about the ac compressor wrap also; I considered routing over the waterpump first and moving the tensioner, but I really prefer the tensioner be last in line, and it wasn't that great of an improvement.

.

jtamulonis
07-03-2013, 01:01 PM
I`ve got the same set-up that`s in your pictures. the belt routing is: crank, A/C compressor, water pump, alternator, fan hub, the tensioner is under the A/C just like the pics. the kit I got came with a cummins belt #3289886. and the belt is a little too long. I dug up a dayco gold label #5080825 and it will just slip over the water pump with the tensioner all the way loostened. the A/C , alt, and water pump all have 180 degree wrap. I`m putting this on my VE pumped `99 24v. I think I`m using a `96 fan hub and damper. that may be why the cummins belt is a tad long.

David Kennedy
07-08-2013, 07:07 PM
A 68.5-inch belt fits the with the F800 routing (keep in mind my 1995 Ram fan drive is closer to the crank than the fan drive on an F800). I'm going to look into rotating the tensioner 90 degrees counter-clockwise, so it points straight up (As in the Dodge setup,) to get more belt on the A/C compressor.

David Kennedy
07-08-2013, 07:09 PM
I'll have to try that routing jtamulonis, it sounds promising. What upper water neck are you using?

jtamulonis
07-09-2013, 01:41 AM
I'll have to try that routing jtamulonis, it sounds promising. What upper water neck are you using? I`m using the `99 stock water neck. everything clears .

David Kennedy
07-09-2013, 07:09 AM
Any chance you have a photo?

jtamulonis
07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
Any chance you have a photo? I`ll see if I can send a pic that I just took. if you`re using a 12v cummins, you may have to use the straight up thermostat housing like rube stated above, but with this belt routing you`ll not have any belt slippin`. cummins changed the thermostat housing on the 24v engines. that`s why I have no belt clearance problems. check post #20 for the belt number.

David Kennedy
12-01-2013, 01:10 PM
I finally looked at doing that routing, but my 1995 water outlet (thermostat housing) gets in the way. Thank you for the photo though.

David Kennedy
12-01-2013, 01:16 PM
[QUOTE=rube bonet;230985]
3921382 Belt tensioner bracket-----------------------42.47


I'm sorry to be revisiting this thread so sporadically, but I figured I'd get caught up today...




Are we sure the 3921382 part number correct? I bought a water inlet that has this part number on it. It's the water inlet that has a 3-bolt flange, and points downward, a little more than 90 degrees. Both the Cummins sticker and laser etched number on this part say "3921382".

calbertson
12-01-2013, 01:35 PM
[QUOTE=rube bonet;230985]
3921382 Belt tensioner bracket-----------------------42.47


I'm sorry to be revisiting this thread so sporadically, but I figured I'd get caught up today...




Are we sure the 3921382 part number correct? I bought a water inlet that has this part number on it. It's the water inlet that has a 3-bolt flange, and points downward, a little more than 90 degrees. Both the Cummins sticker and laser etched number on this part say "3921382".


3921382 is the lower water neck with 90* downward turn.

The belt tensioner bracket is. 3930838. I used a stock dodge belt tensioner from orilleys. Line code GAT part number 38517. It was $96.49


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David Kennedy
12-01-2013, 02:19 PM
Thank you!

Anybody need this 90-degree lower water inlet? It won't clear my 1991 Suburban framerail.

calbertson
12-01-2013, 02:45 PM
Ha ha I did the same thing on my current swap. Ended up getting a straight one.

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84chevyguyid
12-01-2013, 06:07 PM
Here are a couple pics of how I did my belt setup. I am using a straight out lower inlet and a straight up upper outlet for the radiator hoses. I built my own mounts and tried to get my motor as low as possible. My lower radiator nipple sits about 1 and a half inches above the frame and my motor is back as far as I could push it to the firewall. My motor/trans is offset toward the passenger side of the frame about 1 inch to help with clearance of the truck air compressor/power steering setup that mine has.

viking427
12-02-2013, 08:21 AM
Here are a couple pics of how I did my belt setup. I am using a straight out lower inlet and a straight up upper outlet for the radiator hoses. I built my own mounts and tried to get my motor as low as possible. My lower radiator nipple sits about 1 and a half inches above the frame and my motor is back as far as I could push it to the firewall. My motor/trans is offset toward the passenger side of the frame about 1 inch to help with clearance of the truck air compressor/power steering setup that mine has.

What did you use for your "smooth" idler pulley, between the compressor and alternator (application, p/n ?)

CaseyS
12-02-2013, 09:24 AM
That looks nice. Does that require a remote oil filter? Doesn't look like you can fit a vertical there and clear the inlet of the low mount turbo.

84chevyguyid
12-02-2013, 08:53 PM
The smooth pulley started out as a ribbed one that was on the bus motor and my machinist friend turned it down smooth for me. It was in place of the ac compressor pulley. The tightener was under where the ac compressor now sits and I couldnt see it fitting there given its location to the chevy frame. Dont have a part number but it is off of a 93 ford chassis front engine school bus. I found a really good thread on another forum where a guy built cummins powered 72 suburban and I copied how he did his belt setup. Here is a pic of his.
I am going to do a remote mount oil filter setup. The stock bus intake uses a big rubber molded hose to snake past the oil filter and stands up vertical and the air filter canister sits on the top of it. If I could utilize it I might but I think its too big to fit in the spot it needs to.

twiisted71
01-20-2014, 07:09 PM
Thank you!

Anybody need this 90-degree lower water inlet? .

I've sent a couple of PMs trying to follow up our previous conversation. Do you still have this?

David Kennedy
01-25-2014, 08:43 PM
I'm sorry for the delay in letting you know, I am going to hold on to the water inlet I have for a future swap.
[/I]

butlerchevyguy
04-24-2014, 09:18 AM
Does anybody know the part number con that compressed you used?

84chevyguyid
04-24-2014, 12:53 PM
This is where I got mine from.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/U4474-BRAND-NEW-SANDEN-STYLE-HD-AG-FREIGHTLINER-AC-COMPRESSOR-AND-CLUTCH-/371043749850?vxp=mtr

84chevyguyid
04-30-2014, 10:33 AM
Does anybody know where to get the mating electrical connector for this compressor?

TonyB
04-30-2014, 11:55 AM
Try waytekwire.com

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Desoto61
05-01-2014, 06:43 AM
If you know where that came from the junkyard would be a good source for one too, just hack one off a factory harness.

akadiesel
06-23-2014, 01:55 PM
84chevyguyid, Nice setup!! Would you have the thermostat # for that setup or a serial to use? It is smaller than the Dodge. I am doing pretty much the same setup without air for now in my F800 Cummins 4x4 that was gas.

GLTHFJ60
12-18-2014, 07:57 AM
Bringing this up again since a new thread was put up with a Cummins P/N for the lower water outlet:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?62226-Water-InlTheet-for-Ford-High-Mount-AC-Bracket

Is the alternator any higher than the valve cover with this mid-mount setup? If not, this is going to be a great solution to get my belt / ac compressor / lower radiator hose out away from my frame rail to fit the intercooler tubes.

char1355
12-18-2014, 03:47 PM
Johnny, it's probably close. I have one of the alternator arms I'll mount to a head tomorrow and see where it stands. I have the complete list of parts on that unit and it has close to 30 parts counting all the bolts. Cummins must have thought the engine needed more support. I believe I counted 7 bolts that hold the main bracket to the block. 1-M8, 3-M10, and 3-M12. With all the accessories attached, I bet it weighs 100 lbs.

samuelscreech
02-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Does the sanden compressor have a spacer on it? I was playing around today mocking up the compressor I had on hand (24 valve)? and it was 1/8 behind the ribs on the rest of the setup ?
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/samuelscreech/20150204_145940_zpsoj3tucxm.jpg (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/samuelscreech/media/20150204_145940_zpsoj3tucxm.jpg.html)

char1355
02-04-2015, 06:43 PM
If you're using the Ford/Freightliner ac bracket, the Dodge compressor is not correct. You need the compressor for a medium duty truck. I didn't even think the bolt pattern was the same on the Dodge.

samuelscreech
02-05-2015, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, That's what I figured, but I had this laying around and it was worth a shot !

char1355
02-06-2015, 07:45 AM
Here's a link to one on ebay. Not positive but I'm pretty sure this is the correct unit. It's from a Ford Sterling truck with the Cummins engine. Brand new for $206. The same guy also has rebuilt ones for half that. You can also get a Ford Motorcraft for around $600.http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-2000-Ford-Sterling-OTR-Truck-AC-Compressor-NEW-/161124505703?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASterling&hash=item2583c4d867&vxp=mtr

calbertson
02-06-2015, 08:32 PM
I believe we used the Sanden 4474 on the last project. There are multiple options to choose from depending on how you plan to setup your lines

cumminsk30
07-06-2015, 02:23 PM
Hey I just bought the parts for the mid-mount A/C conversion for my p-pump 24 valve, and I ordered the 3921382 water outlet thinking it was the tensioner support bracket. Also had it powder coated black before I realized the error. Just wondering if anyone would be interested in it? I don't need it and I can't see any reason in keeping it around.

jtamulonis
07-06-2015, 02:51 PM
Hey I just bought the parts for the mid-mount A/C conversion for my p-pump 24 valve, and I ordered the 3921382 water outlet thinking it was the tensioner support bracket. Also had it powder coated black before I realized the error. Just wondering if anyone would be interested in it? I don't need it and I can't see any reason in keeping it around.got a picture??

cumminsk30
07-15-2015, 10:26 AM
got a picture??[/QUOTE]

I will take one when I get off of work today.

cumminsk30
08-31-2015, 11:48 AM
Hey sorry it took so long but I finally had some time to take some pictures and get back on here. This is he angled water neck, powder coated black. Still for sale.

h8ers_suck
10-30-2015, 08:02 AM
Has anybody used this setup on a OBS style Ford? I have heard that a 6BT with A/C will not fit in a OBS style Ford with the A/C located in factory position. Destroked sells a front accessories conversion for $695 which is a tad over my budget, I'm searching for alternatives. All the shops I have talked to are unsure if this setup will work or not in my application. I hate to buy the parts in hopes that it will work then be set back that much more if it doesn't.

char1355
10-30-2015, 09:07 AM
What are you referring to as OBS style Ford?

dbshelton
11-01-2015, 06:39 AM
OBS is normally any pre-1999.5 Super Duty Ford truck.

char1355
11-01-2015, 07:21 AM
Usually the Ford frames are wide enough to use the 90 deg down water inlet. Won't clear the Chevys though. On those you use the straight out inlet.

h8ers_suck
11-02-2015, 06:03 AM
Thanks for the replies; although, the question I had pertained mainly to the high ac bracket setup. Companies such as Destroked is attempting to sell me a front accessory kit which is handy as it retains the Ford factory accessories; however, it is very expensive. I would also have to source the Ford factory accessories as all of them on the truck I bought are gone. With that being said I would like to retain the alternator and A/C pump on the Cummins engine.I just wanted to make sure that this would fit in a 1996 F350 and was hoping someone has tried it. Destroked told me, "we are unfamiliar with a industrial 5.9 and have no idea if it would fit and strongly recommend against trying it".

char1355
11-03-2015, 07:05 AM
The Ford/Freightliner high mount bracket probably won't fit stock factory accessories. The alternator normally found on that unit is Delco/Remy J180 style. Typical alternator for medium duty trucks. Those would be 21si, 22si, and 24si models. That doesn't mean you couldn't adapt a Ford alternator. Would just need to make some adapting parts. The ac compressor used with that bracket is also a medium duty truck item. A Ford FS10 compressor won't bolt to that bracket. There are also some newer custom made brackets that will use stock Ford parts. He's a link to one of those. Not cheap either. http://duiser.com/shop/diesel-conversions/cummins-4bt-and-6bt-accessory-mount/#!prettyPhoto

DT80series
12-30-2015, 05:59 PM
No quote

DT80series
12-30-2015, 06:08 PM
Here's a link to one on ebay. Not positive but I'm pretty sure this is the correct unit. It's from a Ford Sterling truck with the Cummins engine. Brand new for $206. The same guy also has rebuilt ones for half that. You can also get a Ford Motorcraft for around $600.http://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-2000-Ford-Sterling-OTR-Truck-AC-Compressor-NEW-/161124505703?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ASterling&hash=item2583c4d867&vxp=mtr

Do not buy from this guy, crap quality. My compressor was sold as a 8 groove pully showed up with a 5 groove. The rear manifold with the fitting is backwards and the overall quality is lacking big time.

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s375/Wheelingnoob/20151230_135840_zpslklkzsaj.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Wheelingnoob/media/20151230_135840_zpslklkzsaj.jpg.html)

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s375/Wheelingnoob/20151230_135848_zps2e4904iq.jpg (http://s1048.photobucket.com/user/Wheelingnoob/media/20151230_135848_zps2e4904iq.jpg.html)

pinky49
12-30-2015, 06:32 PM
you know you can turn the compressor 180 and bolt it up with the fittings facing about 5 o'clock position?

DT80series
12-30-2015, 06:47 PM
The mounting feet have a different spacing top to bottom. You can't turn the compressor 180* and mount it. The manifold on the back can be unbolted and turned but at this stage I want to know how they are going to fix this before I go opening up the compressor. I am still left after all that with what looks like a poorly rebuilt compressor with a 5 rib clutch.

char1355
12-31-2015, 08:25 AM
That compressor is not a Ford Sterling. Did you contact the seller? The outlet ports on the correct compressor are in the 2:00 o'clock position as viewed from the back. You can rotate the back plate on the compressor to the correct position but that doesn't help the 5 groove pulley.

DT80series
12-31-2015, 10:03 AM
That compressor is not a Ford Sterling. Did you contact the seller? The outlet ports on the correct compressor are in the 2:00 o'clock position as viewed from the back. You can rotate the back plate on the compressor to the correct position but that doesn't help the 5 groove pulley.

Yes waiting for a reply. It's definantly not what was advertised or what I bought.

GMC/Cummins
01-01-2016, 06:50 PM
Anyone have a bracket forsale?

char1355
01-03-2016, 04:23 PM
Anyone have a bracket forsale?

Need to put your request in the "Want to Buy" section. Buying and selling on in the threads is frowned upon. I see you're new. Welcome to the forum.

GMC/Cummins
01-03-2016, 04:37 PM
Sorry about that.