: Inline 53 series detroits



K-TRON
03-08-2009, 11:12 PM
I just wanted to say that the inline 53 series are huge. On Friday night I visited "Jim in NYC", and it was the first time I ever saw a detroit diesel in person. I was completely shocked when I saw how big it was. The images and videos online really do not give justice to how large and loud these engines are. I am sure Jim can tell you how shocked I was when he showed me them. I was expecting a much smaller engine, but I must say they are very impressive. They seem to be very simple engines because of their two stroke nature. From looking at the empty core to a full engine, their is alot of parts but I am surprised how similar it is to some of the small engines I work with at home. Plus their are no electronics on the inline 53 series, so all of the big headaches are completely avoided. I finally got to see what all of these parts are. I used to deem "bellhousing" and "timing cover" as the same thing. Now after seeing them in person, they are very different.

When Jim fired up his 3-53 in his Chevy, it was amazing. The videos online just do not have the sound or roar that they produce. I do not know what kind of mufflers Jim has on it, but it is just unmatchable. Nothing sounds like a Detroit two stroke.

I was very impressed. However this project seems to be very daunting at the moment.
I am going to spend some time finding some junk inline 53 series engines just to tinker with to get to know them. I do not think I am going to do a rebuild for a while, until I can get a few inline 53 series engines, which hopefully I can get enough parts to build a running one. I love tinkering with engines, so it should be a great learning experience.

I showed my dad some of the pictures and videos (I will not post any online, since they are not my machines), and my dad was shocked. He did have one question though:
How do you stop a diesel engine which has no electronics?

Thanks Jim for showing me what a detroit diesel is, your help was more than I ever expected from just meeting someone online.

K-TRON

Grigg
03-09-2009, 06:38 AM
How do you stop a diesel engine which has no electronics?

There is a second lever on the governor that forces the injectors into the "no fuel" position.

Glad you went to visit Jim, He's been a big help with my project too.

Grigg

1986 CUCV
03-09-2009, 08:49 PM
Yea there big alright, my 4-53 completely fills my 73 Chevy's engine bay and that's with the firewall being modified to clear the governor.

Its funny because I have a push button start switch next to the battery and I will get in to drive away and I don't even have the key in the ignition so I cant turn the steering wheel. These motor only need power to start (none if you have an air/hydraulic starter), a lot of the older diesel are this way though before computers and electronic injection pumps.

K-TRON
03-24-2009, 10:03 PM
1986 CUCV
In your honest opinion, how has the engine been in your Chevy?

Do you find it enjoyable, or not?

How about reliability?


I found the September 1974 manual for the 53 series engines online:
Just use the back, up and next buttons at the top to navigate
http://www.tpub.com/content/constructioncranes/TM-5-3810-293-14-P-3/TM-5-3810-293-14-P-30009.htm

Is this the latest manual, or is there a newer revision?
If someone could tell me the last year the manual for the 53 series was made, it would be much appreciated on my part.

Also if anyone has the three book volume, can they state the part number or ISBN?

I am currently reading and compiling the online manual into a word file

K-TRON

1986 CUCV
03-24-2009, 10:26 PM
I actually havent really driven it that much as its not legally squared away yet.

With an overdrive it could be a daily driver no problem, its not that loud and doesnt smoke hardly at all.

I got the ebay DVD manual that is copywrited 1990.

Grigg
03-24-2009, 10:51 PM
If someone could tell me the last year the manual for the 53 series was made, it would be much appreciated on my part.

Also if anyone has the three book volume, can they state the part number or ISBN?

The newer 53 series manuals come TWO books to a set, not three. Looks like Detroit part number 6SE202 gets you the set with sections 1-3 in one three ring binder, and sections 4-15 in the other.

The latest 53 series manuals I have are 1990, but I too have asked what the latest edition is and haven't gotten an answer.

I would like to find a copy of the newest manuals on the military 53 series engines, some of them are DDEC engines, which there is no mention of in the manuals I have.
I've also never seen a manual for the 12V53

Grigg

K-TRON
04-09-2009, 07:40 PM
As far as transmissions go, what would be a better transmission to use behind a 3-53 series engine, the NV4500, 3053A, or other?

I have never driven manual and I would like to hear any experiences about driving a 53 series vehicle with either of these transmissions. I would like to know which one would shift best with the engine. I am not looking to really tow anything, just a everyday driver.

Other recommendations are welcome. All I am looking for is a 5 speed with overdrive, to do cruising at like 65mph



Also another question,
which is more fuel efficient, low rpm's out of the transmission with larger tires,
or
higher rpm's out of the transmission with smaller tires?


The answer may be obvious, but I may be overthinking it.

Here is what I think,
Larger tires require more torque to turn them, but lower rpm means lower engine revs.
Smaller tires mean less circumference, so to get the same speed as the larger tires they would need to go faster. But this would increase engine revs, but have less total strain on the engine, because the torque required to turn the wheels would be less.

K-TRON

valdezhilander
04-09-2009, 08:44 PM
I've rebuilt quite a few 53 series engines and I've never seen one used in an over-the-road type vehicle. You find tons of 92 nad 71 series in semi-trucks and dump trucks. The 53, especially the 3-53 is just too heavy and and has too little horsepower for on-road apllications. I have seen a 4V53 in a school bus and it was attached to 545 Allison. Just a warning, I have known several 53s that have suffered from a runaway and completely destroyed the engine. I'd be curious about a DDEC 53, I've only every seen 92 series having DDEC.

Grigg
04-09-2009, 08:54 PM
The NV4500 is probably the more friendly to drive transmission, easier to shift if you aren't the best shifter. The 3053a is a little bigger transmission, and should shift a little harder if you don't speed match carefully. But I haven't driven anything with the 3053a, just guessing.
I have driven a direct drive Spicer 5000 series 5 speed behind a 4-53T, and that experience supports the above theory.

Depending on tire size the OD ratio in the Spicer may not be enough to complement the gears you have or can get; run the numbers.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/bigger_tires.htm

For fuel mileage pick a conservative tire size and gear it for the right RPM at speed. Really tall and heavy tires waste fuel trying to get them spinning and require more braking effort when stopping. Narrow tires with normal tread have less rolling resistance than wide ones with an aggressive tread.

Grigg

junkmandan
04-09-2009, 09:07 PM
235/85 R16 are about as big a "stock" tire you can get ......32-33" tall, depending on tread .

K-TRON
04-09-2009, 11:52 PM
If I recall correctly, the NV4500 needs an adaptor to mount to the SAE timing cover on the 3-53
and
the 3053A bolts right up, without the need of an adaptor

Is that correct?

If I have the space I would want to run 4WD, rather than 2WD, this brings concern because I hear the 4WD NV4500 has problems with the 5th gear o.d. coming loose. Has this problem been fixed?

K-TRON

IHWillys
04-09-2009, 11:56 PM
I like 255/85R16 for tires that fit on "stock" wheels that had 235/85R16 mounted. They fit great on my E350 which had 235/85R16 OEM. Also had them on a Travelall and a Willys-Overland wagon and are planned for the CJ5 currently under construction. A true 33" tall tire(ie taller than a 33-12.50).

Ken

K-TRON
04-13-2009, 02:10 PM
If I go with the NV4500, wouldnt I need to buy one of those expensive adaptors, or make one?
With the 3053A it should just bolt right up, correct?

Also do the two strokes run good on synthetic oil?
and about how much oil does a 3-53 take?

Sorry about all of the questions, I am still learning.
I will be getting my 53 series manual in a week or so

K-TRON

IHWillys
04-13-2009, 03:37 PM
...
Also do the two strokes run good on synthetic oil?
...

Detroits are very picky about the oil. They need the straight weight low-ash oils that DD specs.

There are many posts and some links at the Yahoo group 'DetroitDiesel' pertaining to this subject.

Ken

Grigg
04-13-2009, 05:56 PM
If I go with the NV4500, wouldn't I need to buy one of those expensive adapters, or make one?
With the 3053A it should just bolt right up, correct?

Also do the two strokes run good on synthetic oil?
and about how much oil does a 3-53 take?

Yes, and Yes,
The NV4500 is probably still the better choice, but you need an adapter of some sort.
The Spicer is easiest to fit. I had one on my new 4-53T, complete with clutch, no special parts needed, just normal off the shelf or out of the junkyard stuff.

To answer an earlier question, the 2wd and the 4wd versions of the NV4500 have the same 5th gear problems, which mostly result from bad driving habits. I think with a light vehicle you'll be fine, just don't lug it in high gear, or any other for that matter.

Detroit two cycles demand the right oil if you expect them to last. I understand that Delo 100 is first choice with Shell Rotella T a very close second, straight weight is a must. I use Shell Rotella T SAE40, but would use Delo 100 SAE40 if it wasn't special order around here.
I've asked about synthetic oil, and so far haven't gotten a straight answer, so for now I'll stick with the proven stuff.

A 3-53 typically holds 12.5 quarts of oil.

Grigg

1986 CUCV
04-14-2009, 01:07 AM
Seeing that your in New York you should be able to find DELO 100 40W at a fuel dock or boat mechanic in a bigger marina. I am able to buy Delo 100 at a San Diego marina for $15.57/gallon or $77.00 for a pail so I would think it would be available over there too.

My 4-53 uses 3 gallons for a quick oil change, this does not include the filter.

Heres a list of 41 fuel docks on Long Island, just ask for the service dept.
http://www.citidexli.com/6722.htm#C6717

K-TRON
04-16-2009, 07:09 PM
Thanks 1986CUCV. I live maybe 10 minutes from a harbor, so I can find out if they have the oil there.



I had a further question about compatibility of parts among the three cylinder 53cubic inch models.

From my knowledge, there are 4 different models:
The aluminum gamma goat 3-53NA
cast iron 3-53NA
cast iron 3-53T
cast iron 3-53T Silver

I think parts from the 3-53NA and 3-53T would be interchangeable.
But how about between the gamma goat engine and its cast iron brothers?

I was reading Grigg's post on 4-53T silvers having crosshead pistons.
Do the 3-53T silver's also have these crosshead pistons?

K-TRON

Grigg
04-16-2009, 09:32 PM
Physically most stuff will interchange between all the engines you listed.

Only big exception might be some of the Gamma Goat stuff is weird/odd, like the oil pan and oil pump, I think they need to go together, or in other words you can't swap say the oil pan to a different engine without the oil pump too.

There are the even older 3-53 engines that weren't called "N" engines, they should have 2 valves per cylinder and lower compression than an "N" engine. I'm a little fuzzy on what other differences between an old engine and a "N" engine, might also be the first 4 valve 53's still had lower compression?? I'll have to do some research..

The "cast iron 3-53T Silver" as you say, is not so much different than the 3-53T, obviously the parts that come with the "silver" package are different, but the basic engine, block, and head are the same.
I'd say that the Silver engine is just the updated and revised T engine.

Now, if you want to get picky and go by the book even the blocks are different between an N engine and a T engine (unless it's a late model N engine where they used T blocks).
There are lots of little differences between all the different versions of the engine, best way to learn about them is read the service manual a few times. It list serial numbers and sometimes dates and years when different changes were made. Also explains the difference between all the stronger/different/better parts in a turbo engine, and the differences in a silver engine.
The info is scattered throughout the manual, there is not a list of all the changes and when.. would be nice though. I have started to make one, like a time line with years, serial numbers and changes/updates but I'm only half way through the first book, 3/4's of it left to do..

Grigg

K-TRON
04-17-2009, 10:25 PM
I received my two Detroit manuals in the mail today. I cleaned them up with some rubbing alcohol. It looked like there was some dried red coolant on the covers. It cleaned off, but it took nearly an entire bottle of 93% rubbing alcohol to do it

I managed to spill some rubbing alcohol on the inside of the book, but I cleaned it up before it destroyed much. I reprinted the first 10 pages or so that the liquid soiled. Adobe photoshop is one powerful tool

Here are some images, for those who havent seen Detroit 53 series manuals:

There are two manuals in the May 1990 set.
One covers Sections 1-3
and the other covers sections 4-15
The Detroit part number is 6SE202 for the manuals

Click on the images to enlarge them

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/th_SL731159.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/?action=view&current=SL731159.jpg)

I reprinted the cover pages on cardstock, which is a much heavier paper. It came out quite nice, looks just like new
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/th_SL731160.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/?action=view&current=SL731160.jpg)

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/th_SL731161.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/?action=view&current=SL731161.jpg)

K-TRON

jim in n.y.
04-18-2009, 10:55 AM
Chris,
Grigg hit on something I would like to expand on. The Goat engine has two oil pumps. They are double stacked on the front of the crank where they are gear driven. The oil pan has a baffle in it located roughly amidship with an oil pickup screen located in each end of the pan supplying each pump. This was so the Goat could traverse steep terrain without starving itself of oil. So , the oil pan is about an inch longer to accomodate the extra oil pump. The block, crank, and other items will interchange with it's iron counterpart. Just the pan , pickup tubes and twin oil pumps are different.
Jim.

K-TRON
05-02-2009, 08:32 PM
If my understanding is right, one can very easily turn a worn engine into a "like new" one.

From what I read, the liners, cylinders, rings and all of the bearings/bushings on the crankshaft/piston connection rods can be removed and replaced.

On any other engine, the whole block would need to be replaced in event of heavily scored cylinders. But it seems like a simple part change can be made on these two strokes, so that the block can be continually reused, so long as a rod doesnt break through, and the crankshaft is straight

It sounds like one can continually rebuild these so long as there are available parts.



One other question I had, was the sometimes mentioned "dropping of cylinder liners"

In the manual there is an image of the liner. There is a flange on the top of the liner, which protrudes from the diameter of the part which slides into the cylinder, thus preventing it from sliding down. That means that this dropping of the liner is impossible unless the liner cracks in half around the weakest point where the ports are machined.

K-TRON

junkmandan
05-03-2009, 10:27 AM
A 2 stroke liner will part at the ports ,if scored due to overheat or lack of oil . The pistins are tin coated cast iron [like a solder that you can scratch with your fingernail .

A 6v53 pan will fit the Gamma Goat engine as it's got the extra length of about 1.5" .

K-TRON
05-07-2009, 12:49 AM
Those who run 3-53T's and 4-53T's
what kind of boost do you get out of the turbo in terms of PSI?

K-TRON

junkmandan
05-07-2009, 09:09 AM
Chris-----On my 4-53T ,I can get about 16 lbs. boost maximum. Running solo on level interstate it may run 5-6 PSI , pulling camper in similar conditions 8-9 PSI .Bucking a headwind may add a pound or 2 .Should add this is with 5C 60 injectors ,with an engine updated to "Silver Specs" except for no crosshead rods..

supercharged65
05-07-2009, 09:20 AM
Mine made about 12 lbs with c65 injectors,and 28lbs with n90s, and almost 50 with n140s, and it cruised down the highway with 11lbs at 75 mph, that was a 2 valve 453 with a turbo from a 453t

Grigg
05-07-2009, 07:01 PM
Looking in the Field Service Data Book full load air box pressure for 3-53T and 4-53T with the largest recommended injectors of 5E60 and 5C60 respectively is 23.5 PSI.

The twin turbo 6v53t I had would reach a max of about 16 PSI before the blower, not sure what the air box pressure was.

Grigg

supercharged65
05-07-2009, 08:51 PM
At first I had my boost gauge pre blower with the 90mm injectors and it was showing about 15psi,then I moved it to the blower box and it showed 28, its kinda weird if you think about it,but the pistons cover the cylinder ports at the same time the valves close so the only boost the cumbustion chamber sees is created from the exhaust back pressure.

Grigg
05-07-2009, 09:39 PM
That is a good point, on compression stroke the piston covers the ports then shortly after the valves close, or so the book says.
So if you want to know boost pressure in the cylinder you'd measure exhaust back pressure, and that might be a better answer than the air box pressure?

I thought I've seen a diagram showing when ports uncover, valves open/close, and injection occurs, a circle with a bunch of radial lines and the angles for each occurrence, but I can't find it. Am I imagining it, or where should I look for it?

Grigg

KingNothing50
05-07-2009, 09:44 PM
I am figuring on adding a traditional style turbo to my 6v53N. What kind of boost would something like that make? Also what would be a good injector to run?

supercharged65
05-07-2009, 11:16 PM
I took the valve cover and air box cover off my engine,and turned it over by hand,and the piston covered the ports at the exact same time as the valves touched their seats,and I was like how is this going to work if it can't store the boost,so that night I looked thru a old turbocharging book I have(by hue maclain I think)and it had a section on 2strokes and talked about using back pressure as boost,and it was like someone turns on the light,it made me feel stupid cuz I didn't think of such a simple thing that works so good,so on went the turbo and here came the horspower,lots of it.

K-TRON
08-05-2009, 04:54 PM
I have been looking at a few engines and I was wondering what the circled item in this image is?

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/th_1-14.jpg (http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/bb109/bigdogtrucker/?action=view&current=1-14.jpg)

Is it a dispensing unit of some kind for water to cool the exhaust, for say marine use?

Or is it for aftercooling? (I'm not sure what aftercooling means)

Chris

Grigg
08-05-2009, 05:33 PM
On a 71 series it's just a water manifold for the cylinder head, it feeds water to the thermostat housing.
Many but not all 71 series have them, and I'm not sure on 92. A 12V71 in a truck shouldn't have them, just block off plates if I remember correctly. But an industrial 12V71 should.

Grigg

K-TRON
08-17-2009, 09:32 PM
How come the larger detroit diesels I have found are worth so much less than the smaller ones?

I have found 6V53 engines which are half to a third of the price of a 4-53,
and 3-71's and 6-71's which are a fraction of the cost of a 3-53/4-53?

Is there a reason for this?

K-TRON

Grigg
08-17-2009, 09:50 PM
Demand,
6V53's are cheap because there are few trucks or machines these days that need them, or are economical to use them in. There are better/newer engines for the weight, size, and power

6-71's are pretty common, they only made them for 52 years...
3-71's are not as popular any more either, a 4-53T will do the same thing in a smaller package and burn less fuel.

You'll still find 3-53 and 4-53's in use in logging equipment forklifts and the like.

At least those are my observations, probably not the whole answer though..

Grigg

amnima
08-18-2009, 08:36 PM
My little 4-53 t makes around 20 pounds in the crossover with the 7105 injectors (150).

amnima
08-18-2009, 08:37 PM
Mine made about 12 lbs with c65 injectors,and 28lbs with n90s, and almost 50 with n140s, and it cruised down the highway with 11lbs at 75 mph, that was a 2 valve 453 with a turbo from a 453t

What turbo were you using?? i like that boost with your n140's

K-TRON
09-01-2009, 11:18 PM
I have read through the fuel injector section of the manual but I am still a bit confused.
Since the engine is purely mechanical, in order to change speed of the engine, the governor would have to be attached with a mechanical linkage to the fuel rack. The amount the lever is turned on the governor changes the amount the rack moves. So a small movement of the rack yields a small amount of fuel to each injector, and a large movement of the rack yields the fuel amount of fuel to each injector?

Is that correct?

And how does changing injector size effect this?
Say you had 60cc injectors and upgraded to 80cc injectors. Would the amount of fuel at idle be the same or larger with the 80cc injectors?, or would the difference only appear at higher rpm (where the 80cc injector would use more fuel)

Chris

Grigg
09-02-2009, 07:57 AM
I have read through the fuel injector section of the manual but I am still a bit confused.
Since the engine is purely mechanical, in order to change speed of the engine, the governor would have to be attached with a mechanical linkage to the fuel rack. The amount the lever is turned on the governor changes the amount the rack moves. So a small movement of the rack yields a small amount of fuel to each injector, and a large movement of the rack yields the fuel amount of fuel to each injector?

Is that correct?
Correct, with the rack is the "no fuel" position no fuel is injected, and in the "full fuel" position the full amount is injected. So gradually moving from no to full fuel gradually increases the amount of fuel injected from none to maximum.


And how does changing injector size effect this?
Say you had 60cc injectors and upgraded to 80cc injectors. Would the amount of fuel at idle be the same or larger with the 80cc injectors?, or would the difference only appear at higher rpm (where the 80cc injector would use more fuel)
Chris


The main difference is at the higher end, as expected.
Obviously they both have a "no fuel" position, and they both have the same amount of travel to get to full fuel position. Seems reasonable that the larger injector (in comparison to the smaller one) will put out more fuel for any given rack position. It goes from 0-80 in the same distance that the small one goes from 0-60.
They will both idle with the same amount of fuel at the same RPM, the governor manages that.

Grigg

P.S. the "60cc" you give for injector size may be incorrect but I don't have a book here to check? Off the top of my head I'm thinking that injectors are sized by how many cubic millimeters of fuel they pass in the full fuel position after say 100 injections.
I probably have some of that wrong, but I think CC is wrong too, can you check the manual for me?

K-TRON
09-02-2009, 10:19 AM
I was just stating numbers for comparative means in that post because I didnt have the book in front of me.

So from what youre saying the rack moves the same regardless of injector size.
So basically any point above the no fuel position, you are getting more fuel output with larger sized injectors.
I had thought, which was wrong, that larger injectors meant higher rpm.

You are right Grigg, the displacement is in cubic millimeters.

Chris

supercharged65
09-02-2009, 12:07 PM
I was just stating numbers for comparative means in that post because I didnt have the book in front of me.

So from what youre saying the rack moves the same regardless of injector size.
So basically any point above the no fuel position, you are getting more fuel output with larger sized injectors.
I had thought, which was wrong, that larger injectors meant higher rpm.

You are right Grigg, the displacement is in cubic millimeters.

Chris

Detroit injectors are measured in cubic millimeters per 1000 strokes.

K-TRON
10-18-2009, 05:03 PM
I was reading online on dieselpage, that if you use different liners you can get more power out of the engine.
One member mentioned that he put the oval port liners designed for the 8V71 into his 6-71 which had factory figure 8 shaped ports.

What is the advantage of this, just more direct airflow into the combustion chamber?

Following this idea got me thinking, why do the oval holes go all of the way around the liner?

Wouldnt the liner only need holes on opposing sides, as a direct path through the cylinder,
or
do the holes go all of the way around the liner, so that in case that the liner actually turned inside the engine, while it was running, the engine wouldnt be robbed of air if there was a solid part.
or
are the holes all of the way around the liner to allow air to pass from one cylinder to another, during that instantaneous moment that the air enters the cylinder for scavenging

This would probably be helpful with pictures, let me see if I can make some.

Chris

Grigg
10-18-2009, 05:57 PM
The bottom section of the liner (with the ports) fits in the "air box" and fresh air form the blower completely surrounds it. All of the ports are used to admit air into the cylinder.

Grigg

junkmandan
10-18-2009, 09:46 PM
Chris-----Figure 8 liner ports is 50 year old technology, I'd call it 2nd generation,whereby 1st generation was 2 rows of holes.............might have bee between 5/16 anf 3/8ths of a inch . So,when you compare these types to oval ports as used today ,you can visualize the scavenging advantage .The liners in an inline 71 and V 71n carry the same part # ,although now there at least 2 port heights . Search for an inline 71 service manual...............they ought to be cheap now .

K-TRON
12-03-2009, 07:53 AM
I was just reading some new threads on here, and it brought up two more questions.

If a member has a 4-53 from 1995, when did they stop producing them?
I thought that the 1989/1990 epa killed them, but I guess not

and
How are you able to find the date the engine was produced from the serial number?

Chris

Grigg
12-03-2009, 08:26 AM
Here's one serial number chart, I've got a few others in some Detroit books.
Have yet to find a complete one for all years.
http://www.depco.com/upload/engineserialguide_20913.pdf

K-TRON
12-03-2009, 09:58 AM
thats a great chart,
so if I interprete it right, my 6D-156316 (6v53T)
was the 156,316th 6v53 made

wow, that is a lot of engines.
I just did the math 2,845,732 engines made by Detroit Diesel by 1995.
And that chart doesnt have the 1-71, 2-51, 4-51, 2-53, 8v53, 12v53, 6-110, 24v71, 32v71, 16V149, 20V149,

With the 6v53 and the 8v92 still being produced, I bet there are ~4 million 2-strokers made. :eek:

Alot of them must have went to scrap, or there are very few in my area, cause I maybe came across 20 of them in the year I was looking for one.

Chris

strokinout
12-04-2009, 12:33 AM
What do you think about the 4-71t?

Grigg
12-04-2009, 08:04 AM
A 4-71T is a fine engine...
But this is a thread about 53 series only,
Please post a new thread (http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=28)about your 71 series with some more specific questions.

Grigg

edpruss
12-04-2009, 06:23 PM
Mainly talking about 4500's w/ GM/Chevy bolt pattern, Dodge would be similar. Just make sure the input shaft of the 4500 fits the GG clutch disc both for splines, length, and pilot bearing ID. One will have to bore out the ID of the retainer hole in the GG adapter plate, an alternative would be to turn down the retainer OD as much as possible. This machine work needs to be precision(+/_ .005" max), no using a file or bodygrinder, this is what locates the trans. and keeps it centered.

The stock bolt pattern on the GG rear adapter plate looks just like that on the GM/Chevy 4500, however, upon inspection, the 4500 bolts are just a little farther apart. After the retainer registration is taken care of, hold the 4500 against the trans. adapter behind the GG bellhousing, or better yet, remove the trans. adapter and sit the 4500 on top of it-make sure the input shaft has clearance and one can reach through to mark the 4500,-and mark the GG bolt holes through the adapter plate, onto the front of the 4500 trans. This is one's big chance to clock the trans. if need be.

Remove the 4500 and correctly identify the marked hole locations on the front. Drill and tap the holes in the 4500 the same size as the existing mounting holes, best to make them blind if possible to avoid a bath when removing a mounting bolt, again, this is precision work, use a milling machine or precision drill press if need be, no hand drill work here. Drill out the mounting holes on the GG adapter plate to allow the size bolts one drilled for in the 4500.

Now one can permanently bolt the 4500 to the GG adapter plate, then bolt the GG adapter plate to the GG bellhousing.

No adapter plate needed. Good luck.