: Diesel Durango Build



Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 06:59 AM
Well, I guess I should start a buildup thread at some point. I started this project in December. I didn’t want to share too too much until I was pretty positive that it would work. At this point, the engine is in and runs. Now it’s just little stuff which we all know can take forever and nickel and dime you to death… Hopefully a couple more weeks and I will be driving it around. My goal is to take it to a local auto show the last Friday of the month.

I have a webpage for the project and it has more pictures than I will post in this thread. I lost all my formatting so the page is screwed up until I can fix it.

Here is a somewhat sequential look at my build:

I need to resize some of my earlier pictures they are rather big.

Basic Build Sheet is as follows:

2001 Dodge Durango SLT – fully loaded
1996 Cummins 4bta 120hp
TH700r4
Custom NP233 (no front axle for now so it will be 2wd for a while)
4” exhaust
Good Hood ram air hood (came on Durango)

I have no clue why some of the pictures don't work but they don't and i can't seem to fix them.

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:02 AM
Now as attachments...

What the Durango will tow eventually:

First time in the garage back in December:

The 4bta arrives, 90k miles:

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:03 AM
The 4bta was pretty gross when I got it:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/12-12-06%20Durango%20-%20Cummins%20work%20014.jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/12-12-06%20Durango%20-%20Cummins%20work%20017.jpg

Pulling apart the Durango:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/IMG_2746.jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/IMG_2774.jpg

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:03 AM
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/006.jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/013.jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/014.jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/017.jpg

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:04 AM
Test fitting the 4bta with some help:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/1-8-07%20032.jpg

Looks like it will fit!
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/1-8-07%20035.jpg

Had to clearance the hood for the top part of the aftercooler:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/1-8-07%20003.jpg

Someone should tell the Durango lay off the coke…
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/1-8-07%20004.jpg

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:04 AM
All mounted up:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/1-8-07%20009.jpg


NP233D and NP233C to combine into what I need:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/durango%20016.jpg

Torque converter adapter ring which is not intended to be permanent:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/IMG_2858.JPG

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/IMG_2860.JPG

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:05 AM
The engine then went in and I stopped taking pictures for a while. It went a few weeks/months with very little work. I was on travel for a while and got sick a couple times and just plain wasn’t around. I’ve been hammering away the past couple weeks though and here is the latest:

Converting the fuel tank:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20054%20(Small).jpg

Fuel pickup:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20068%20(Small).jpg

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:05 AM
My throttle and TV cable brackets:

If anyone wants at least the TV cable bracket(or throttle) I am thinking of getting them CNC plasma cut and I would be able to hook you up
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20069%20(Small).jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20070%20(Small).jpg

Starting to look like something:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20072%20(Small).jpg
Fram I know, that’s what advance had, gonna order some Fleetguard soon:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20073%20(Small).jpg

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 07:06 AM
Radiator Installed:
http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20075%20(Small).jpg

http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/070706%20-%20mix%20076%20(Small).jpg

It Runs! Video (http://dieseldurango.no-ip.org/4btruns.avi)

Jcrow
06-07-2007, 09:15 AM
Thats gonna be awesome! What torque converter are you using? Where did you get the adaptor ring for the torque converter, and how thick is it? I was thinking of just using a dual pattern flexplate to stick in there, but I like yours better.

Diesel Durango
06-07-2007, 09:53 AM
it is a stock diesel torque converter. came with the trans. The transmission will be getting replaced in the near future. I don't know what shape it is in. Hopefully good enough shape to get it moving for a while. I haven't decided where to get my replacement. I would consider a raptor from transmission center but they are really far away and i would hate to have to deal with shipping back and forth if i had a problem...

pm me about the adapter ring.

I just saw that transmission center offers a billet flywheel, it looks very pricy though.

4wheelvanman
06-07-2007, 01:08 PM
Looks great,its so nice when they come to life.Well thats another runner in the jersey area!!She sounds real good!! Ken

Diesel Durango
06-29-2007, 09:39 PM
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/itdrives.avi

getting there!

GreasedPiggy
06-30-2007, 12:09 AM
Congrats!!!:beer: :beer:

sounding really cool stepping out for the first time!


Wondering how it drives compared to the gas 360?
weight, speed, accel, vibe etc...

Best Regards,
George

Ggg
07-01-2007, 12:07 PM
Very nice build up, I sent you a PM.

Diesel Durango
07-01-2007, 03:07 PM
Congrats!!!:beer: :beer:

sounding really cool stepping out for the first time!


Wondering how it drives compared to the gas 360?
weight, speed, accel, vibe etc...

Best Regards,
George

Thanks!

We'll see how it drives soon... gotta finish up some little things before it is really road worthy. I'd hate to get a mile from home just to have an issue... Getting there though!

So far, it definitely has more vibrations, at idle especially. It's also quite loud. Weight, doesn't seem all that different just going by the suspension. It seems to sit really really level to when the 360 was in it. The only explanation is that i did lose the front axle and the front drive shaft, along with the 700r4 being lighter than the 46RE that came out.

1340
07-01-2007, 05:17 PM
Congradulations on your swap. I was wondering how the wiring went. Could you elaborate a little bit? Any problems?

Diesel Durango
07-01-2007, 05:44 PM
Congradulations on your swap. I was wondering how the wiring went. Could you elaborate a little bit? Any problems?

wiring's been a PAIN so far! i knew it would be. It just takes forever. I have the FSM for it, otherwise i'd be dead in the water...

getting it to start was a challenge in itself... i'm not trying to get some of the gauges working.

drove it down the road, the transmission isn't shifting correctly, i think my TV cable setup is bad, it feels like it's waiting for the engine to rev up further before it shifts, but the 4bt just doesn't rev... got some work to do here. The durango drives nicely, much smoother than i thought it would.

1340
07-01-2007, 06:33 PM
Do your gauges run through the computer or are they separate? A buddy at work says Dodge is way behind in wiring, but it sure made my swap easier. I eliminated the computer so wiring was pretty simple. The only thing i haven't figured out is the cruise control.

Diesel Durango
07-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Do your gauges run through the computer or are they separate? A buddy at work says Dodge is way behind in wiring, but it sure made my swap easier. I eliminated the computer so wiring was pretty simple. The only thing i haven't figured out is the cruise control.


all through the computer... Did you get the stock tach to work on yours? Mine runs off the CPS, and i haven't figured out a good way to mount that yet...

I haven't gotten to Cruise yet, it's kind of low on the list, haha.

Well i drove it a little farther this time, drives really well. Seems to have decent power too. It does seem to smoke on accelleration, not sure what that means.

1340
07-01-2007, 07:53 PM
None of my gauges went through the computer.
I got the factory tach to work using a magnetic sensor and a shutter wheel I made. I took the tach wire off the computer plug, ran it to one wire of the senser, then to ground. The shutter wheel has 2 fingers to trigger the senser. It works good. Ended up within about 50 rpm. The shutter wheel is bolted behind the fan and the senser bolts to a bracket that is bolted below the front valve cover

Diesel Durango
07-01-2007, 08:30 PM
None of my gauges went through the computer.
I got the factory tach to work using a magnetic sensor and a shutter wheel I made. I took the tach wire off the computer plug, ran it to one wire of the senser, then to ground. The shutter wheel has 2 fingers to trigger the senser. It works good. Ended up within about 50 rpm. The shutter wheel is bolted behind the fan and the senser bolts to a bracket that is bolted below the front valve cover

interesting way to do the tach, do you have any pictures? I was planning on triggering the stock magnetic sensor off of the flywheel...somehow.

Diesel Durango
07-02-2007, 08:58 PM
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/durango%20001%20(Small).jpg

averagef250
07-03-2007, 12:09 AM
I'd imagine the 700r4 diesel shiftpoints are too high for the cummins. You probably need some custom governor work in the tranny. The 4BTA tears apart 4L80E's. Can't imagine the 700R4 lasting, but good luck!

Diesel Durango
07-03-2007, 04:36 AM
I'd imagine the 700r4 diesel shiftpoints are too high for the cummins. You probably need some custom governor work in the tranny. The 4BTA tears apart 4L80E's. Can't imagine the 700R4 lasting, but good luck!

the shift points do seem high. It shifts fine as long as i don't go WOT

haven't heard of anyone tearing apart a 4l80e with one... hard to believe that's for sure! I'd like to hear the story. I'm still up in the air about the 700r4. A part of me wants to rip it out and put in an NV4500... Then i have to get into mounting a clutch and figuring out where the shifter goes, but that might not be too hard.

My 4bta will stay stock, probably for a long time, so hopefully that will help with longevity. I went with it on someones suggestion, hopefully it doesn't kick me too hard!

Jcrow
07-03-2007, 07:55 AM
Do you have a diesel governor? They also sell adjustable governer kits. You can fine tune the part throttle shift points by adjusting the TV cable slightly. Also check this out
http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html
I'm rooting for the 700-R4 because I plan to use it and I have 3 of them

Diesel Durango
07-03-2007, 08:07 AM
Do you have a diesel governor? They also sell adjustable governer kits. You can fine tune the part throttle shift points by adjusting the TV cable slightly. Also check this out
http://www.purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/700R4p1.html
I'm rooting for the 700-R4 because I plan to use it and I have 3 of them

thanks for the site, i have been there, but hadn't looked around that much. My TV cable was adjusted per Bowtie Overdrives instructions, though i still had like 1/8" or so of travel on the TV cable that i just couldn't eek out of the throttle linkage. The 4bt throttle linkage doesn't move very far from idle to WOT and my arm extension eventually hit the head and couldn't be any longer.

I haven't played with slight adjustments to the TV cable, that is next though. I do have a diesel governor though it sounds like a slightly heavier spring is needed, but i don't know precisely what that even means... got any links to governor adjustments? i couldn't find it on that site.

averagef250
07-03-2007, 03:46 PM
You can weld on the governor weights to lower shift points.

Not to be too pessimistic, but chevy automatics with the exception of thier new allison are the biggest piles ever made, the 700R4/4L60E taking first place.

NV4500's are tough, but 5th gear will fail. If you get one used from a cummins dodge it already has problems.

I really like the ZF's and Ford Mazda 5 speeds. They're cheap and hold up well. The mazda's have a bad rap, but look what I'm running in my '71. It's close ratio, shifts great and holding up great so far.

95Z28A4
08-14-2007, 04:42 PM
Diesel Durango
Your pictures and videos are no longer working.

I have a lifted 1998 Cherokee that I wanted to convert to 4BT power before I found this site. After reading about the power (and vibration) of the 4BT, I do not want to make an investment of this magnitude into converting a unibody vehicle. I've looked at some "framed" alternatives (Explorer, Trailblazer/Envoy, Tahoe) and have decided that the 1998 - 1999 Durango is best suited for both the 4BT and solid front axle conversion. While the 116" wheelbase is a bit long for my taste, it is indeed the same as the 2007 four door Jeep Wrangler.

Currently, my direction is 4BT with air/air intercooler, 1994-1995 47RH transmission, NP241 transfercase. I haven't decided on a front axle yet. I'd like to use a high pinion Dana 30 from a Cherokee with WJ Grand Cherokee knuckles/brakes/steering, but I don't think it will handle the output of the 4BT.

If you can get your pictures working again, it would be great. Also, if you have any pictures of your mounts, that would be fantastic.

Thanks,
Mike

Diesel Durango
08-15-2007, 06:19 AM
Diesel Durango
Your pictures and videos are no longer working.

I have a lifted 1998 Cherokee that I wanted to convert to 4BT power before I found this site. After reading about the power (and vibration) of the 4BT, I do not want to make an investment of this magnitude into converting a unibody vehicle. I've looked at some "framed" alternatives (Explorer, Trailblazer/Envoy, Tahoe) and have decided that the 1998 - 1999 Durango is best suited for both the 4BT and solid front axle conversion. While the 116" wheelbase is a bit long for my taste, it is indeed the same as the 2007 four door Jeep Wrangler.

Currently, my direction is 4BT with air/air intercooler, 1994-1995 47RH transmission, NP241 transfercase. I haven't decided on a front axle yet. I'd like to use a high pinion Dana 30 from a Cherokee with WJ Grand Cherokee knuckles/brakes/steering, but I don't think it will handle the output of the 4BT.

If you can get your pictures working again, it would be great. Also, if you have any pictures of your mounts, that would be fantastic.

Thanks,
Mike

Hey Mike,

Your setup sounds like a good solid setup. I would not try and run a Dana 30, personally. Dana 44 or higher would be my choice. The next issue is bolt pattern. The Durango is 6x4.5, which you won't be able to find a solid front axle in. In my '01, the speedo is run off the rear ring gear, making it difficult to replace the rear axle, not saying it can't be done though. You can get 6x4.5 -> 6x5.5 spacers, but i'm not sure I'd want to run them if I were towing. the 98-99 may be different.

I'm hoping to get pictures up again soon... I'm in the process of moving, so it could be a little while.

Diesel Durango
08-15-2007, 08:51 AM
i'm just gonna add some posts with what people ask to see.

Engine Mounts first:

DeckSetter
08-15-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm very interested in this swap, wondering if you've learned anything more about getting all the gauges to work. I have an '01 Dakota Quad Cab, and I'm convinced it would be the perfect truck with a 4BT in it a couple years down the road. I drive 25,000+ miles a year and need a truck for work (commercial contractor, I build churches).

Is there a way to trick the computer into thinking the engine's running so the speedometer / odometer / overhead console will work? I know it won't be able to figure fuel economy, but it can't do that accurately anyway. My truck is a 4.7l, but I doubt the 360 computer is that much different.

How much power do you think the stock front diff will hold up to? Can it handle the diesel torque?

Diesel Durango
08-16-2007, 06:31 AM
I'm very interested in this swap, wondering if you've learned anything more about getting all the gauges to work. I have an '01 Dakota Quad Cab, and I'm convinced it would be the perfect truck with a 4BT in it a couple years down the road. I drive 25,000+ miles a year and need a truck for work (commercial contractor, I build churches).

Is there a way to trick the computer into thinking the engine's running so the speedometer / odometer / overhead console will work? I know it won't be able to figure fuel economy, but it can't do that accurately anyway. My truck is a 4.7l, but I doubt the 360 computer is that much different.

How much power do you think the stock front diff will hold up to? Can it handle the diesel torque?

the 4.7 is a bit more complicated electonics wise. I haven't gone through to see if it would matter or not, it's mainly the 545rfe that came in them with all the extra electronics.

Mine does not know the engine is running, I don't have a crankshaft position sensor installed. I do plan on installing it, so we'll see what changes. That said, it doesn't really need to know. All of my stock gages work except for the tach (because of the CPS).

I don't have a stock front diff, i would have had to modify my oil pan to get it to fit so i ditched it. I wanted to get it going before i tried anything like that. I plan to swap a solid front axle in, if I feel the need for 4 wheel drive in the future. Would it hold up? I would think it would if you had stock sized tires. the stock 4bt makes about as much torque as the 4.7 give or take, so unless you start turning screws it shouldn't be a big deal.

copperdodge
08-24-2007, 01:12 PM
i'm just gonna add some posts with what people ask to see.

Engine Mounts first:

Cool,man..... what did you do for power steering? I'm not seeing the pump mounted on the engine. Or am I not looking at it correctly?

Diesel Durango
08-24-2007, 04:41 PM
I thought about using the stock pump and running hydroboost brakes, but I decided to get a Ram vacuum pump/steering pump combination and I am running that. It works well...

95Z28A4
08-25-2007, 03:51 PM
i'm just gonna add some posts with what people ask to see.

Engine Mounts first:

Thanks for the pics. I saved them to my hard drive. I have a few more questions:

Are those the liquid filled mounts from the P30? How much vibration is transmitted to the cabin at idle and cruise rpm? What is your axle ratio?

I seem to recall reading that you used or planned to use a NP233C transfercase. Are you using a stock length rear drive shaft?

What is the length/location of the 700R4 compared to 46RE? I'm asking because I'm trying to determine 700R4 bellhousing location in relation to the original 46RE bellhousing.

I'm under the impression the 47RE is dimensionally the same as a 46RE. Did you consider replacing the 46RE with a 47RE? How "electronic" is the 47RE? Are ALL the shift points, line pressure and lock-up controlled by the ecm/tcm/pcm? (I don't know the name for Chrysler's transmission controller.)

Do you know if anyone makes software to reprogram the 46RE/47RE controller?

How /where did you mount the AC compressor to the 4BT? Can you post some pics?

I recall seeing a pic of you cutting the under side of you fiberglass hood to clear the air-to-water aftercooler. Do you think a stock steel hood would clear a 4BT without the aftercooler?

The 1998/1999 4WD Durango uses a steering box instead of rack and pinion steering. Is you steering rack to oil pan clearance the limiting factor on engine placement?

How much clearance between the water pump pulley and radiator?

Are you using the exhaust manifold that has the turbo located between and below cylinders 3 & 4? How is the clearance between the firewall and the turbine outlet? A pic would be great. I was thinking the manifold used by my96z in his 1997 Jeep Wrangler conversion could be used if necessary.


Thanks for the help,
Mike

Diesel Durango
08-25-2007, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the pics. I saved them to my hard drive. I have a few more questions:

Are those the liquid filled mounts from the P30? How much vibration is transmitted to the cabin at idle and cruise rpm? What is your axle ratio?

I seem to recall reading that you used or planned to use a NP233C transfercase. Are you using a stock length rear drive shaft?

What is the length/location of the 700R4 compared to 46RE? I'm asking because I'm trying to determine 700R4 bellhousing location in relation to the original 46RE bellhousing.

I'm under the impression the 47RE is dimensionally the same as a 46RE. Did you consider replacing the 46RE with a 47RE? How "electronic" is the 47RE? Are ALL the shift points, line pressure and lock-up controlled by the ecm/tcm/pcm? (I don't know the name for Chrysler's transmission controller.)

Do you know if anyone makes software to reprogram the 46RE/47RE controller?

How /where did you mount the AC compressor to the 4BT? Can you post some pics?

I recall seeing a pic of you cutting the under side of you fiberglass hood to clear the air-to-water aftercooler. Do you think a stock steel hood would clear a 4BT without the aftercooler?

The 1998/1999 4WD Durango uses a steering box instead of rack and pinion steering. Is you steering rack to oil pan clearance the limiting factor on engine placement?

How much clearance between the water pump pulley and radiator?

Are you using the exhaust manifold that has the turbo located between and below cylinders 3 & 4? How is the clearance between the firewall and the turbine outlet? A pic would be great. I was thinking the manifold used by my96z in his 1997 Jeep Wrangler conversion could be used if necessary.


Thanks for the help,
Mike

holy crap. ok. let's see here:

those are the liquid filled mounts. There is little vibration above idle. At idle there is some vibration. it is low frequency and you can feel it, but it is not bothersome really. You can see the hood shake at idle.

I am using a combination of an NP233C and an NP233D. The shifting is different between the two. motors are different, pattern is different, but most parts interchange. I am running mostly dodge internals in a chevy case. I used an angle grinder to make it work. stock length driveshaft. it is on the short side. The back end of the np233 is about 2" or so closer to the front of the vehicle. I don't know the exact dimensions of either trans, but that is how mine ended up.

The shifting of the 46re is in the ECM, there is no seperate TCM. I would us a 47RH if i wanted a chryco trans. When did the 47RE come out? if it came out with the 24V engines, I would think a stockish setup would be hard. I have no clue about aftermarket electronics, I would look around.

I have not mounted an A/C compressor yet. I have to see if i can make it fit above the Alternator. I may have to cut through the bottom layer of hood here too.

The only way I see possible to run a stock hood would be to run a 6bt style airhat, or the A/A intercooler style air hat. Unless you can lower the engine with the 98/99 style steering. That is my limiting factor. If you can lower it even an inch, you could probably sit the engine lower and further back in the bay. Though accessing the 4th valve cover would require removing part of the cowl.

there is plenty of clearance in front of the water pump pully. I would guess liek 6" before you hit the rad. I am running my stock electric fan for cooling and I have had zero problems so far. 1000 miles on it. It warmed up a little in the city, marginally, but otherwise runs on the cold side.

I am that manifold. downpipe clearance is TIGHT between a stock p30 downpipe and the firewall, but does fit. there is plenty of room to relocate the turbo forward, so either a tilted mount, or a custom mount would work.

hopefully I covered most of it.

Diesel Durango
08-25-2007, 09:20 PM
more pictures
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20069%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20070%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20071%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20072%20%28Small%29.jpg

Diesel Durango
08-25-2007, 09:21 PM
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20073%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20074%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20075%20%28Small%29.jpg
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/070706%20-%20mix%20076%20%28Small%29.jpg

Diesel Durango
08-25-2007, 09:24 PM
http://www.phatserver.net/~phillyzj/pictures/Durango/durango%20053.jpg

95Z28A4
08-26-2007, 07:08 PM
Thanks for all the info and the pics. I will save this webpage to my hard drive. I have a few more questions:

"I have not mounted an A/C compressor yet. I have to see if i can make it fit above the Alternator. I may have to cut through the bottom layer of hood here too."

Do you have room to mount the A/C below the alternator? Or is frame clearance the limiting factor?

What is your rear axle ratio and tire size?

"When did the 47RE come out?"

According to http://www.suncoastconverters.com , the 47RE was used from 1996 to 2002.

Thanks,
Mike

Diesel Durango
08-27-2007, 08:59 AM
Thanks for all the info and the pics. I will save this webpage to my hard drive. I have a few more questions:

"I have not mounted an A/C compressor yet. I have to see if i can make it fit above the Alternator. I may have to cut through the bottom layer of hood here too."

Do you have room to mount the A/C below the alternator? Or is frame clearance the limiting factor?

What is your rear axle ratio and tire size?

"When did the 47RE come out?"

According to http://www.suncoastconverters.com , the 47RE was used from 1996 to 2002.

Thanks,
Mike

no room below the alternator when using the front motor mounts.

rear end is 3.55's.

I wonder how they controlled the 47RE with the 12V diesels... You might want to look there if you want a 47RE. the 12V's were all mechanical...

95Z28A4
08-31-2007, 07:47 AM
I saved pics to the hard drive. Have you checked fuel mileage yet? Have you towed anything yet? I'm wondering if 3.21 gears would produce improved fuel economy and still provide adequate towing power.

FYI, 3.23 & 3.54 gears are available for the low pinion Dana 44 axle. The high pinion Dana 44 has 3.54 and 3.07 gears available, but I could not find a ratio compatible with the Chyrco 9.25" 3.21 ratio.

Thanks,
Mike

Diesel Durango
08-31-2007, 07:52 AM
I saved pics to the hard drive. Have you checked fuel mileage yet? Have you towed anything yet? I'm wondering if 3.21 gears would produce improved fuel economy and still provide adequate towing power.

FYI, 3.23 & 3.54 gears are available for the low pinion Dana 44 axle. The high pinion Dana 44 has 3.54 and 3.07 gears available, but I could not find a ratio compatible with the Chyrco 9.25" 3.21 ratio.

Thanks,
Mike

I haven't had too much of a chance to check mileage. i haven't even driven it in over a week. I am waiting on a dipstick for the trans, the one on it leaks at the seal and isn't really the right one. Once i get that, and I replace a ujoint on the rear DS (hey they prob have 220k on them) I should be able to drive it more.

I have towed my little 4x8 trailer with a few hundred pounds in it. it did well, but I haven't towed anything serious yet.

Diesel Durango
08-31-2007, 07:55 AM
Oh, I'm not sure about gearing. 3.55 seems on paper like a good ratio with 31" tires. I can still cruise at 65-70, and i should be able to tow pretty well too.

industrialhemiguy
09-03-2007, 12:04 PM
How did you get your guages to work?On my 98 durango I have no speedometer, no voltage regulator no fuel guage ect. I used the mid engine mounton the passenger side,then used the factory alternator mounted way down low then put the a/c compressor where your alternator is, everything fit good with this arangement(see yahoo 4bt photo section).

Diesel Durango
09-03-2007, 02:44 PM
How did you get your guages to work?On my 98 durango I have no speedometer, no voltage regulator no fuel guage ect. I used the mid engine mounton the passenger side,then used the factory alternator mounted way down low then put the a/c compressor where your alternator is, everything fit good with this arangement(see yahoo 4bt photo section).

they kind of just worked... I don't have a tach, haven't hooked up the CPS yet. I used the stock tank with the stock sender, so that's why that worked. My speedometer runs off the rear axle, so that's how that works. I am not sure how the voltage gauge works, it just does. Since it just works, I haven't bothered trying to figure out the wiring and why it works. If you used a dodge ram Alternator, it would probably work too. I am using the one-wire 12si that came on my engine.

Thanks for the tips on the A/C. I will check out yoru pictures.

nhdiesel
09-22-2007, 03:09 AM
I have a 2000 Durango that I will be converting to diesel, and am researching whether the 4bt will be my best choice. I have been a member of the Yahoo group for some time, and know how great of a motor the 4bt is, so thats not the issue. This will be my wife's vehicle/general family vehicle, so it needs to be as nice to drive as possible. Keep in mind my wife was raised as a farm girl, and has no problems with diesels in general, and likes driving my '96 Ram. So having a slightly noisier engine with a few more vibrations won't bother her.

First off, the vehicle. 2000 Durango SLT with a stock 360. I bought the vehicle earlier this summer with a bad engine at auction. I installed a good used 360 (so I thought), with many new parts on it. I was in the hole WELL over $1000 just between the engine and replacement parts (new senders, sensors, stainless headers to replace the rusted stock manifolds, etc.) Well I could never get a computer/wiring issue sorted out, and have invested another $800 or so dealing with that (including a new PCM). Now I find that the engine is making valvetrain noise. Since it still has the computer issues, and this 360 is coming back out anyway, I decided not to go with another gas engine.

Now for my plans and concerns. I want a 4bt and 5-speed transmission. For strength reasons I will most likely go with a NV4500. I am kind of considering a Ford ZF though, since this won't be abused hard, and the ZF can be found very easily and cheaply in my area. I will be keeping it 4x4 because of our location. It will be kept stock height because my wife is short, and we also take her parents with us sometimes. For accessories, I'm considering using Dodge 6b brackets so I can use the stock A/C compressor and alternator. I'll have to figure out the P/S pump because the Dodge Cummins uses a completely different setup than the Durango. Its not a big deal though.

I'm an experienced auto technician and fabricator, so the basic mechanicals and fabrication won't be an issue. My primary concern is with the front differential. My initial thoughts are to fab up a custom oil pan to clear the steering rack and diff. If clearance is still an issue, I can make brackets to lower the front diff by at least an inch. I believe there is room to lower it 1-2". I don't mind using a hood scoop for clearance as long as it isn't huge and looks right on the vehicle. Gauges aren't a big concern either, because I might just make a custom dash insert using aftermarket gauges.

I guess my biggest question for those who have done this in a Dakota/Durango is: is there any way I can use the stock front diff by fabbing a custom pan and lowering the diff slightly?

Jim

Diesel Durango
09-22-2007, 08:41 AM
sounds pretty similar to mine, though mine is only 2wd. I think using the front diff may be possible, but it will be tight. the 4B sumpi s HUGE. If you cut out the cowl you might be able to slide the engine back a little in the bay, but getting to cylinder #4 might get difficult. Also note that the front diff mounts to the drivers side engine mount as it's 3rd mounting point, you would definitely have to get creative as this bracket won't be there. If you can mod the oil pan enough to fit the Dif, that's what I would do.

using the 6b brackets is a good idea, though you will have to get creative with the passenger side motor mount. I will be fabricating my own brackets for the A/C compressor. Over the winter probably.

I have a '99 dodge cummins PS pump and vacuum pump and it works great. I am not sure what you are referring to in that regard.

all of my stock gauges work except the tach, but i have no sensor. Once the sensor is installed I want to use the Dakota Digital tach converter to calibrate the stock tach.

feel free to PM me too if you want, our projects are very closely related.

nhdiesel
09-23-2007, 12:45 AM
Thanks. I wondered if the Ram's P/S/vacuum pump would bolt on. I have a '96 Ram to use as a guide. Although this project is in the planning stages, i already know it WILL happen, its not just research to see if I can do it. The 360 is making noise, so although it should last plenty long enough to gather the parts I'll need, it does need to come out. I have to say I wasn't impressed with the 360's power. I really thought it would have a lot more than it did. I drove a customer's 4.6 '00 Durango that moved much better. Fortunately our Durango is in great shape other than the motor, so its worth putting work and money into. I only paid $1250 for it at a state surplus auction, so other than the wasted money on the 360 and parts to try to fix it, we don't have much invested.

One BIG favor I have to ask- do you have any other pictures showing the bottom of the engine in the engine bay? I want to see just where the oil pan and lower engine block line up in relation to the steering rack, so I can start to gauge how much room I have to work with.

Jim

Diesel Durango
09-24-2007, 08:14 AM
Thanks. I wondered if the Ram's P/S/vacuum pump would bolt on. I have a '96 Ram to use as a guide. Although this project is in the planning stages, i already know it WILL happen, its not just research to see if I can do it. The 360 is making noise, so although it should last plenty long enough to gather the parts I'll need, it does need to come out. I have to say I wasn't impressed with the 360's power. I really thought it would have a lot more than it did. I drove a customer's 4.6 '00 Durango that moved much better. Fortunately our Durango is in great shape other than the motor, so its worth putting work and money into. I only paid $1250 for it at a state surplus auction, so other than the wasted money on the 360 and parts to try to fix it, we don't have much invested.

One BIG favor I have to ask- do you have any other pictures showing the bottom of the engine in the engine bay? I want to see just where the oil pan and lower engine block line up in relation to the steering rack, so I can start to gauge how much room I have to work with.

Jim

I don't have any pictures of the bottom, but i'm not sure how much they would really show. All i can say is i have a finger width between the oil pan and the steering rack, it is rather tight...

RAF34
09-24-2007, 08:10 PM
Diesel Durango,
This is my first post. So hey there. This is the thread that brought me to this site. A couple of weeks ago I got a hold of a 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 loaded. Blown 4.7.

My main question: about how much did this conversion cost you? I know the engine could have a big range so I am more interested in the other costs.

Thanks, Rich

Where in NJ are you at? I am about 25mins west of Atlantic City

nhdiesel
09-27-2007, 07:10 PM
Project costs are hard to compare. What costs one person $5000, could cost someone else $500 if they have some of the parts, know the right sources for cheap parts, and do all of their own work and fabrication. People are always amazed at how cheap my projects end up. I have a '97 Dakota with a 5.7 Hemi swap including the 5-speed auto, a front solid axle Dana 44 with leaf springs, and rear GM 14-bolt. Its not done yet, but does run. The whole project (not counting the cost of the Dakota, which I already had) was well under $1000. $500 for a wrecked Ram, $200 for a Grand Wagoneer to donate the front axle and springs, a free 14-bolt, and misc. small parts.

I know my Durango is going to cost me much more, since I don't have easy access to the motor and trans, and I don't have time to wait for great deals.

Jim

Diesel Durango
09-27-2007, 09:49 PM
I have about 5K in it so far not including the durango. That will go to 7 once I put in a new transmission. I'm acctually now living in Philly, i guess i should change that.

I am at a point where I will be deciding for good what transmission will go in it next. It is temping to swap in a manual, if i can figure out where the shifter will go, and there is room for it. Otherwise i will continue on my current path to a 4L80E. They are both somewhat close in price, so....we'll see.

nhdiesel
09-28-2007, 09:23 PM
My estimated expense list is as follows:

Engine: $1500
NV4500: $750 or less (based on local prices)
Clutch/Flywheel ??? (somewhere around $400, based on ebay Dodge Cummins flywheel prices and my discount through my employer for a clutch set)

I am getting a loan for $3000 to take care of the big items. The small stuff I'll pay for out of my weekly paychecks (Dakota pedals and clutch hydraulics, brackets, exhaust, etc.) I happen to have a Dodge flywheel housing that is coming out of my Ram (which is getting a Spicer 3053a, with SAE #3 flywheel housing), so that is a big expense saved. I'm a fabricator, so I'll be doing all of my own brackets and other mods. I am good friends with a certified welder, so if I need any aluminum parts modified, he's the guy. I'm a pretty good welder with steel, so I have that covered (motor mounts, trans crossmember modifications, etc.)

As for your manual trans research, keep in mind that early Dakotas are directly based off the Dakota platform, so any Dakota pedals, floor consoles, etc. should work. At least thats what I'm counting on. My '00 Durango has the split bench seat (40/20/40) with just a small floor console, so I have it pretty easy. The NV4500, although wider and deeper, has the shifter location very similar to the other transmissions Dodge has used, so the shifter shouldn't be a problem in a Durango.

Jim

trenton
10-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Nice thread I have a couple of questions would you be willing to put together a more complete step by step? would you be willing to email me your build pictures with this? Have you tried pulling a large load yet? Do you think a 6bt would fit with a custom rad/intercooler setup behind the grill because i don't know if the 4bt would be able to pull the weight I ask this because we have a 2000 2wd durango with a 318 and pull a 28' holiday trailer 3 kids 3 dogs and hate the 6mpg I get I have wanted a new truck but they just don't have the room plus I love my durango so I think my best option would be a cummins swap. any input would be appreceated thanks.

Diesel Durango
10-03-2007, 01:16 PM
I have lots of pictures, but no place to store them online. If you want something in particular, I can upload it here. I am pretty busy, so taking pictures of stuff that I don't already have is rather difficult. I can try and email you pictures, but I can only do so from home and I am not home a whole lot.

So far, I have only towed a 18' car hauler with some furniture on it, so <3k lbs. it did that well. It was a little slow getting up to speed, but i also did it without 1st gear on the 700r4 (stuck governor). pulling more power out of the 4bt is not hard, but I do not have boost/trans/egt gauges as of yet.

I would not try and do a 700r4 if you want to tow. Everything I have read says don't tow in OD, it can't handle it. If you want to tow in OD, the 4L80E is a decent option. I am working on obtaining an NV4500 to go in mine, we will see if I succeed or not. I have the 4L80E sitting here, so i am either going to go with a full manual valve body, or drop the coin on a compushift unit.

DarylB
10-03-2007, 01:52 PM
I have lots of pictures, but no place to store them online.

Use photobucket chief, works great. www.photobucket.com

I'm not sure on the t0tal size limit, but it's got to be huge. I've got videos & pictures stored.

Diesel Durango
10-03-2007, 01:55 PM
Use photobucket chief, works great. www.photobucket.com

I'm not sure on the t0tal size limit, but it's got to be huge. I've got videos & pictures stored.

i can't get to it that site at work. i think i can get to google picassa, I will try and put them there.

Diesel Durango
10-03-2007, 02:26 PM
this is all I have with me at work: http://picasaweb.google.com/phillyzj/Durango?authkey=O7vI5qU3XbQ

trenton
10-03-2007, 02:56 PM
thanks for the reply I would love to get all the information you have it would make my swap much more pain free. my email is tjohn01@telus.net anyone with information on doing this or a 6bt swap into a durango please feel free to email me
thanks again

nhdiesel
10-03-2007, 09:05 PM
Do any of you Dakota owners know which front differential a 2000 Durango uses? I know the gears only fit '00-'03 (according to the Dodge part's site I use). I want to look into higher gearing (either 3.31 or 3.07/08, if available) for economy, since this Durango will rarely be used for towing.

Jim

95Z28A4
10-04-2007, 04:33 AM
Do any of you Dakota owners know which front differential a 2000 Durango uses? I know the gears only fit '00-'03 (according to the Dodge part's site I use). I want to look into higher gearing (either 3.31 or 3.07/08, if available) for economy, since this Durango will rarely be used for towing.

Jim

I can't speak of the front diff, but the rear diff's are either 9.25 or 8.25 Chrysler. The highest gear available for the 9.25 is 3.21 and for the 8.25, 3.07 is available.

Mike

Diesel Durango
10-04-2007, 06:15 AM
Do any of you Dakota owners know which front differential a 2000 Durango uses? I know the gears only fit '00-'03 (according to the Dodge part's site I use). I want to look into higher gearing (either 3.31 or 3.07/08, if available) for economy, since this Durango will rarely be used for towing.

Jim

It's a chrysler 8.0" front axle... I don't see anything lower than 3.55 on www.ringpinion.com for it.

DieselZJ
10-04-2007, 08:11 AM
Nice thread I have a couple of questions would you be willing to put together a more complete step by step? would you be willing to email me your build pictures with this? Have you tried pulling a large load yet? Do you think a 6bt would fit with a custom rad/intercooler setup behind the grill because i don't know if the 4bt would be able to pull the weight I ask this because we have a 2000 2wd durango with a 318 and pull a 28' holiday trailer 3 kids 3 dogs and hate the 6mpg I get I have wanted a new truck but they just don't have the room plus I love my durango so I think my best option would be a cummins swap. any input would be appreceated thanks.

I have a Grand cherokee with a 4bt, and it tows pretty well. The jeep weighs 4950 and the heaviest trailer i've pulled is about 6400lbs, and it had plenty of power. I have a 120hp 4bta and an NV4500, 3.73 gears and 35 inch tires.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/padaurizio/powerwagon001.jpg

copperdodge
10-04-2007, 03:23 PM
this is all I have with me at work: http://picasaweb.google.com/phillyzj/Durango?authkey=O7vI5qU3XbQ

That's an excellent set of photos... very informative. Can you describe what you had to do to convert the fuel system and what you did to marry the Durango throttle linkage to the 4BT pump?

Diesel Durango
10-04-2007, 10:45 PM
That's an excellent set of photos... very informative. Can you describe what you had to do to convert the fuel system and what you did to marry the Durango throttle linkage to the 4BT pump?

sure. I used a bulkhead tubing fitting to get the fuel pickup line into the tank. I used 3/8" stainless tubing and used two walbro fuel pickups. They suck shut when they try to pull air, good for non baffled tanks like mine. One is in each end. I also plumbed a return line through one of the vents. I am using the stock fuel level sender.

I used a throttle linkage stud mounted on the 4bt throttle linkage to custom bracket that I made that holds both the throttle linkage and the cruise control. I don't have the cruise control working yet, i'm not sure how or if it is going to work yet, one of these days.

copperdodge
10-05-2007, 11:34 AM
sure. I used a bulkhead tubing fitting to get the fuel pickup line into the tank. I used 3/8" stainless tubing and used two walbro fuel pickups. They suck shut when they try to pull air, good for non baffled tanks like mine. One is in each end. I also plumbed a return line through one of the vents. I am using the stock fuel level sender.

I used a throttle linkage stud mounted on the 4bt throttle linkage to custom bracket that I made that holds both the throttle linkage and the cruise control. I don't have the cruise control working yet, i'm not sure how or if it is going to work yet, one of these days.

So the travel of the Durango gas pedal gives you full throttle on the 4BT without too much trouble, then?

And forgive my diesel ignorance.... the fuel system just uses the Durango fuel pump bucket to have a sender unit for the gauge, but the rest of the lines just go through the lid of the old pump unit? And then is there a lift pump along the way, or does the pump up front pull the fuel that far?

JAFO
10-07-2007, 08:24 AM
I have a Grand cherokee with a 4bt, and it tows pretty well. The jeep weighs 4950 and the heaviest trailer i've pulled is about 6400lbs, and it had plenty of power. I have a 120hp 4bta and an NV4500, 3.73 gears and 35 inch tires.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/padaurizio/powerwagon001.jpg

DieselZJ, you got any details on what was needed for the buildup in that Jeep? I want to do the same to my wife's ZJ...

Diesel Durango
10-07-2007, 12:04 PM
So the travel of the Durango gas pedal gives you full throttle on the 4BT without too much trouble, then?

And forgive my diesel ignorance.... the fuel system just uses the Durango fuel pump bucket to have a sender unit for the gauge, but the rest of the lines just go through the lid of the old pump unit? And then is there a lift pump along the way, or does the pump up front pull the fuel that far?

pedal travel is just fine, no issues there. You could modify the bracket to make it work no matter, so no worries.

You got it on the fuel setup. I am using the lift pump on the motor solely. no issues so far. It is not really that far, around 6 feet, and not much over a foot vetrical i don't think.

nhdiesel
10-07-2007, 02:22 PM
I would like to install an intercooler, if possible. Do you think the Durango setup allows enough room for one? There are many low-profile ones on ebay for import cars that look like they would be well suited for adapting to tight spaces, such as behind a custom bumper. I plan to build a custom front bumper at some point anyway, so I was thinking that I could design one with an opening to let air to an intercooler tucked behind it. This is a daily driver, so I'm not worried about damage such as an off road 4x4 would see.

I hope to get an engine next week, so I'll be able to start designing the oil pan. Hopefully I'll pick up an NV4500 around the same time. I have located several, its just a matter of choosing which one.

Jim

copperdodge
10-07-2007, 03:28 PM
pedal travel is just fine, no issues there. You could modify the bracket to make it work no matter, so no worries.

You got it on the fuel setup. I am using the lift pump on the motor solely. no issues so far. It is not really that far, around 6 feet, and not much over a foot vetrical i don't think.



Cool.... THanks!

Diesel Durango
10-08-2007, 03:44 PM
I would like to install an intercooler, if possible. Do you think the Durango setup allows enough room for one? There are many low-profile ones on ebay for import cars that look like they would be well suited for adapting to tight spaces, such as behind a custom bumper. I plan to build a custom front bumper at some point anyway, so I was thinking that I could design one with an opening to let air to an intercooler tucked behind it. This is a daily driver, so I'm not worried about damage such as an off road 4x4 would see.

I hope to get an engine next week, so I'll be able to start designing the oil pan. Hopefully I'll pick up an NV4500 around the same time. I have located several, its just a matter of choosing which one.

Jim

I have TONS of room in front of the engine. I think you could easily fit an intercooler, but moving the rad back might help. There is plenty of room, just need to be a bit creative.

durangotrkrt
10-13-2007, 04:44 PM
Hey was that your durango on Youtube.com i saw?? Sounds awesome if it was!
Got any other new pics? How much did you pay for the motor?

Diesel Durango
10-15-2007, 07:00 AM
Hey was that your durango on Youtube.com i saw?? Sounds awesome if it was!
Got any other new pics? How much did you pay for the motor?

yep, that's the one. thanks!

I don't really have any newer pictures. I haven't really changed much, I've just been driving it her and there, mainly on the weekends.

I do plan to swap a 5 speed in sometime, probably in the winter.

copperdodge
12-05-2007, 08:53 AM
Did you get the clutch pedal assembly together yet? How's the tranny swap?

More video please.....bounce

Diesel Durango
12-05-2007, 08:57 AM
it's all in and working, but some little things to finish up here and there. Currently the valve cover is against the cowl...no good. I'm gonna have to make some room there one way or another. The other big issue is the clutch still has a bit of air in it. I've got about 25 miles on it, I plan to put some more on this weekend, I don't expect any problems.

Tranny swap is great. TONS of power, even with a stock 4bta. I haven't even touched the pump.

I want to turn the pump up a bit and get my 3200rpm spring in. I also have an HX35 to go on it. then it should really move.

copperdodge
12-08-2007, 02:39 AM
it's all in and working, but some little things to finish up here and there. Currently the valve cover is against the cowl...no good. I'm gonna have to make some room there one way or another. The other big issue is the clutch still has a bit of air in it. I've got about 25 miles on it, I plan to put some more on this weekend, I don't expect any problems.

Tranny swap is great. TONS of power, even with a stock 4bta. I haven't even touched the pump.

I want to turn the pump up a bit and get my 3200rpm spring in. I also have an HX35 to go on it. then it should really move.

Just a word of advice... you can't crack open the clutch/slave assembly. It's a sealed unit from the factory and once you crack it open you need to replace it. I've heard of guys having some sort of "bleed" method, but you never get ALL of the air out. I'd just go order a Dakota slave assembly from the dealer or parts store. It's only like $150 or something.

PS- WHy is the valve cover all of a sudden against the cowl? It wasn't before, right?

Diesel Durango
12-08-2007, 08:57 AM
Just a word of advice... you can't crack open the clutch/slave assembly. It's a sealed unit from the factory and once you crack it open you need to replace it. I've heard of guys having some sort of "bleed" method, but you never get ALL of the air out. I'd just go order a Dakota slave assembly from the dealer or parts store. It's only like $150 or something.

PS- WHy is the valve cover all of a sudden against the cowl? It wasn't before, right?

Saw someone say that on Dakota-Durango. No offense, but as of right now I think it's a load of bull. When you go to a parts store they sell the slave and master seperately... All it takes is removing a roll pin to open them up, and all that seals them is an O-ring around the hydro line. My friend managed to do it with his ram and got it right eventually. If i can't get mine to work, maybe i'll try and replace it. I would proably have to take the whole brake booster off to even get one in without dissassembly.

It was against the cowl because the engine is tilted back more. I had to change the crossmember mount and it is sitting lower leaning the valve cover into the cowl. I've got that straightened out now though...drives like a champ.

off to do some miles, see what kind of mileage she gets bounce

durangotrkrt
12-08-2007, 12:35 PM
Saw someone say that on Dakota-Durango. No offense, but as of right now I think it's a load of bull. When you go to a parts store they sell the slave and master seperately... All it takes is removing a roll pin to open them up, and all that seals them is an O-ring around the hydro line. My friend managed to do it with his ram and got it right eventually. If i can't get mine to work, maybe i'll try and replace it. I would proably have to take the whole brake booster off to even get one in without dissassembly.

It was against the cowl because the engine is tilted back more. I had to change the crossmember mount and it is sitting lower leaning the valve cover into the cowl. I've got that straightened out now though...drives like a champ.

off to do some miles, see what kind of mileage she gets bounce

You gotta post a new video of your truck on Youtube. I wanna see that thing driving around.

Diesel Durango
12-08-2007, 01:03 PM
i don't have anyone to film it or anything to film it with...eventually though. If my buddy were around, I'd make one. Maybe next weekend. I have about 150 miles on the 5 speed now... so far it's awesome.

Diesel Durango
12-08-2007, 06:37 PM
preliminary mileage is >27mpg empty. i'm pretty happy with that!

copperdodge
12-10-2007, 01:27 PM
preliminary mileage is >27mpg empty. i'm pretty happy with that!

Nice. Very nice.

The clutch assembly advice came from the Factory Service Manual. Not sure what to think... I guess if it works, then it works. You're right, though, about the master cyylinder. You'd have to remove the vacuum reservoir at a minimum to install the reservoir and slave as a unit.

Diesel Durango
12-10-2007, 06:57 PM
Nice. Very nice.

The clutch assembly advice came from the Factory Service Manual. Not sure what to think... I guess if it works, then it works. You're right, though, about the master cyylinder. You'd have to remove the vacuum reservoir at a minimum to install the reservoir and slave as a unit.


The person building the other durango on here said that they managed to get it all in without taking it apart, but their front end was all apart. With the booster in there, it'd be really hard i would think... something has to move to make it possible that's for sure.

I hadn't read the FSM for a dakota. I do know that my friend bought new ones from NAPA and they came seperate, he filled them up, got them bled (eventually) and it works well.

I'll hopefully get to play with it some more this weekend, it certainly works fine the way it is, but i'd rather get it bled correctly.

BONESTOCK
12-10-2007, 09:43 PM
WE WANT A VIDEO!!! Congrats on the tranny swap too. Will it out run the gasser you took out now?

Diesel Durango
01-11-2008, 06:41 AM
just a little update....

The Durango how has an NV4500/np241 from a 95 3/4 ton ram diesel. I've been driving it every day for two weeks now and I now have 2k on the nv4500 swap. I'm at over 4k miles on the swap now and most of the kinks have been worked out. Mainly finishing touches to the interior and little things i'd like to do and just haven't done are left.

these are all the videos that i've posted on youtube: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=phillyzj

Machman
01-11-2008, 08:18 AM
Love it!

Now, the truly evil person would have made it "5 on the tree" shifting like those trucks we had in Saudi Arabia back in 91.. But I don't wanna design that linkage.

JohnC
01-27-2008, 03:31 PM
Awesome thread!

Anyone here have links to this swap on the 91 circa 5.2L 4x4 Dakota's?

bounce :beer:

mastermoparman
01-28-2008, 02:33 AM
what mpg you getting in it? awesome build btw

Diesel Durango
01-28-2008, 06:33 AM
i'll have some mileage figures one of these days. I am averaging around 25mpg i think. I now have almost 3k on the nv4500 and it rocks.


No clue on a first gen dakota, not sure it's been done yet. I have seen a MB diesel in a first gen though.

95Z28A4
01-28-2008, 06:48 AM
I am averaging around 25mpg i think. I now have almost 3k on the nv4500 and it rocks.

IIRC, you are running a 31" tire with 3.55:1 gears in a 9.25" Chrysler. Have you considered re-gearing to 3.21? Assuming those values are correct, 3.21 gears should drop your 70 mph RPM from 2050 to 1850. This should help your mpg.

Diesel Durango
01-28-2008, 07:00 AM
it would help mileage i'm pretty sure. I may swap them too down the road. I will probably have to do rear end work, at least new pinion bearings, doing a gear swap at that time might not be too hard. with the whole thing apart, it would be the time to do it.

What's holding me back mainly though is towing. I will be towing quite a bit with it. I feel like 3.55's and 31's might help my towing ability. I'm pretty heavy when I tow, close to 12kGVCW

The other thing is, i would really like 4wd. If the front suspension holds up and i feel like it won't, i will probably try and redo the front suspension and will probably put a solid axle under it at that time. then it just snow-balls. with a front axle it won't be 6x4.5, so i can either run wheel adapters, or swap the rear axle. Also, i probably won't sit at stock height, so bigger tires will be necessary, etc, etc.

my mileage calcs are with me crusing at 70-75. I watched the speedo and egt's a lot more this last trip, i won't fill up til this weekend though to see. I kept it under 70, close to 65-67 and kept my EGT's under 700 for this past trip, we'll see what kind of difference it makes. It's tough to go slow on the highways around here.

If i can make it through this year without having to rebuild anything, I will probably keep it the way it is. My trans is going to need some work at some point (233k on the clock), i would rather not make any changes until then. I am driving it daily right now and my jeep's in the garage getting overhauled, so it will hopefully wait.

nhdiesel
01-28-2008, 09:37 PM
I just did a 700+ mile round trip to northern Maine to get a couple M105 military trailers. This is the first time I towed with the 4bt, and it ROCKED!!! The trip up I had no load, and since we were driving through the night and were very early, I kept the speed to 65 on the highway just to see what my figures would be. We got around 27 mpg on the trip up. Did the 350 miles and we were at almost a half tank. It was -34 !!! when we arrived at 4:30 am, we slept a couple hours (the 4bt didn't do a wonderful job of keeping the Durango warm...the INSIDE of the windows were frosted up!), then picked up the trailers. On the trip home we had plenty of power, but without an intercooler, we really had to watch the EGTs on hills. 65 with the trailers wasn't a problem. We did have to use 4th gear much of the time to keep the EGTs down, so we only got about 15mpg on the trip home.

I think the front suspension is going to hold up as well as any Dakota/Durango suspension...plenty of ball joints, but thats normal for these. Our roads are HORRIBLE, with frost heaves so big that we have to drop to 20-25mph on anything but a few of the main roads. So far I'm quite impressed with how the swap rides and handles. I think my 3.54 gearing is perfect for my driving. It seems as though 70 is the high end of the "sweet spot" for economy- I've been up to 95 with the 4bt, so its very capable of more, but its happiest at around 65-70.

Pics of what I towed home (http://s226.photobucket.com/albums/dd315/nhdiesel/Trailers/)- these trailers weigh 2750 lbs. each.

Jim

Diesel Durango
01-29-2008, 05:17 AM
wow, that's quite a setup! those figures are similar to mine. I forget what i got towing, i had a 16' car grailer and 2k of sami/axles on it and got about what you did. I didn't take it easy either.

I have a hard time keeping my foot out of it too of course. my latest tank will probably go down as well from sitting in traffic for what seemed like forever yesterday.

You should get some super springs or something for the rear suspension. Since the Durango's don't have an overload, when you put a trailer on the back it saggs like crazy. Super springs seem to work well for me so far.

nhdiesel
01-29-2008, 11:34 AM
Yea, even unloaded the rear is softer than the front. When I bottom, its always the rear, even with the 4bt and no trailer. I plan to get airbags for the rear and install the electric onboard compressor I have so I can adjust them on the fly.

Jim

Diesel Durango
01-29-2008, 11:45 AM
Yea, even unloaded the rear is softer than the front. When I bottom, its always the rear, even with the 4bt and no trailer. I plan to get airbags for the rear and install the electric onboard compressor I have so I can adjust them on the fly.

Jim

That's what I was going to do. I picked up the super springs used for cheaper than I could do air bags, so i went that route. I like them because they are automatic and seem to work well so far, i've loaded it up pretty well with no problems.

What is your front height from ground to the bottom of the fender flare? I am going to start keeping an eye on mine. It is lower than the back, it was pretty level with the 700r4, with the nv4500 it dropped an inch or two. I'm wondering how the torsion bas will hold up, I may need to crank them up.

nhdiesel
01-31-2008, 08:20 PM
I turned up my torsion bars a little and did an alignment after. I think I actually went a little too far, the front is actually a hair higher than the back...but once I add air bags, it will be fine.

I'll get a measurement when I think of it.

Jim

Diesel Durango
03-17-2008, 07:22 AM
Well, this weekend was pretty eventful, thought i'd update my build thread.

I lost my top starter bolt and the starter popped out of engage ment last weekend. i didn't have time to look at it so i left it for the week. I got back on thursday and began to take a look. I figured i'd check the bolt hols for thread engagement before trying to get the starter back in. Turns out the bottom ear of the starter broke off...crap. So, i pull the starter and ear out and call my buddy, Tim. We take it to his uncles welding shop and get it all fixed up (he goes to school for welding engineering) I put it back in and install the correct length bolts (others were too short) and some loctite. back on the road.

Friday: I am working on prepping my jeep for a trip this coming weekend, finishing up my bumper mounting and some other misc stuff. I get tired of that and decide hey it's time to install my 12CM housing that was begging to be put to work. I pull the manifold and H1C off. I get it all taken apart, the old exhaust housing fought me of course. Get the new one on, put it together, i was gettin pretty pumped up at this point. I put it all back in and hooked up. I get it started, everything seems fine and go to go for a test ride. Something is not right, obvious hum/buzz of something in the turbo trying to share the same space as something else, NOT GOOD. I get back to the garage and start looking at it, looks like i hadn't tightened the exhaust housing bolts enough :pissed: take the down pipe off, LOTS of radial play in the shaft, it's shot. It's late, about 1:30 at this point and i had a bar crawl the next day :beer: so i call it quits for the night.

Sunday: I get back to work on the Durango for a bit, pull the turbo off and start workin on the HX35 that i had sitting around. I manage to get the waste-gate housing off the HX35 and install the turbo in the durango then comes plumbing. I was not sure at all how to plumb the boost piping. I had some of the plumbing off the 6bt the turbo came off of, but i don't have a FMIC i have a JWAC. We start looking at it and placing things where they would go and decide to use the 90 degree bend that would go to the FMIC on the ram but point it towards the JWAC. I also managed to have a piece of tubing the right length with the right bend to get it perfectly in line with the JWAC. Then we made a new flange for the JWAC, cut the end off another tube and crush the end enough to oval it out for the new flange. We put it all together, DOUBLE CHECKING everything, and get it back on the road. WOOOHOOOO bounce . I had to get back to MD for work today, so i was really rushed yesterday. I wouldn't have finished it without Tim savin my arse the second time this weekend.

Anyways, sorry for the long-winded post. Looks like all the stars were aligned this weekend or something, I seem to have come out on top bounce . It drives Fantastic with the HX35 and the 12CM housing. LOTS of boost and it comes up when i need it, not late like the 16CM housing. It also doesn't smoke nearly as much, could probalby use a little tuning but it looks like i'll get to see how it tows this weekend.

toolmanoffroad
03-17-2008, 09:20 AM
Oh your in trouble..... Iv decided to take the 4bt out of the race truck and put it in a 97 dakota, and put it back to stock. So guess who is gonna be gitting some questions??? ;)

I am starting to go back through you posts, and im sure that I will come up with a How did you do that, and a How close is this from that kinda questions.

Oh, im sure its in there somewhere, but how come some of your pics are gone? Did your membership run out??? Thanks for the buildup, and nice posts. :beer:

Diesel Durango
03-17-2008, 09:23 AM
are you going with a 6bt???

good luck with a dakota, i was lookin at one the other day sayin how sweet would it to be have a 4bt dakota AND a 4bt durango, haha. I gotta pay off this one first :D


this is a bunch of my pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/phillyzj/Durango?authkey=O7vI5qU3XbQ One of these days i will put them all in my photobucket account, but i've been pretty busy lately. maybe in April.

toolmanoffroad
03-17-2008, 09:36 AM
Yep! I dont want to pay for a p-pump for the four banger. I can put alot of go fast goodies on this 6bt that already has a p-pump and two more cylinders with that kind of cash.

Momma always said there was no replacement for displacement!

she also said the life is like a gumball machine.... sometimes you dont get crap!

I need to keep all the maney I can going toward the bizz, and this is an easy way out. I think it will be a better way to go anyway. The people in the stands wont know that its a 4 banger... only thats it not as fast as those other diesels. Also, I will have a little shop truck that will get good mileage, and still be able to tow, and have a cool factor. :rasta:

Later guy, and look forward to talkin to ya more....;)

Diesel Durango
03-17-2008, 09:45 AM
Yep! I dont want to pay for a p-pump for the four banger. I can put alot of go fast goodies on this 6bt that already has a p-pump and two more cylinders with that kind of cash.

Momma always said there was no replacement for displacement!

she also said the life is like a gumball machine.... sometimes you dont get crap!

I need to keep all the maney I can going toward the bizz, and this is an easy way out. I think it will be a better way to go anyway. The people in the stands wont know that its a 4 banger... only thats it not as fast as those other diesels. Also, I will have a little shop truck that will get good mileage, and still be able to tow, and have a cool factor. :rasta:

Later guy, and look forward to talkin to ya more....;)


no doubt it makes sense logically, but who needs logic?

Atleast this way you can tow the 6b with the 4b :dustin:

I want to find a P-Pump 4bt for my next project, we'll see though. 6bt's are so easy to come by though... we'll see i probably have a few years til i can really afford/justify another big project.

bt4mpg
03-17-2008, 06:55 PM
If you want to get rid of the 16 housing, e-mail me.

Diesel Durango
03-17-2008, 07:06 PM
email sent

bt4mpg
03-17-2008, 08:51 PM
emailed back

wtfd6
03-23-2008, 10:58 PM
when you installed the nv4500, where did you get the bell adapter at? did you take it off a 6bt? do they have the same bolt pattern? I am looking to swap into a Dakota and use a 47re or rh.

thanks,

Mark

Diesel Durango
03-24-2008, 06:20 AM
when you installed the nv4500, where did you get the bell adapter at? did you take it off a 6bt? do they have the same bolt pattern? I am looking to swap into a Dakota and use a 47re or rh.

thanks,

Mark

Hey Mark,

I just bought a ram and swapped everything i needed off of it. So it had the plate for the bell housing pattern on the back of the 6bt, it has the same bolt pattern as the 4bt so it bolted right up. i used everything from the block back and it all bolted right up. HTH.

wtfd6
03-24-2008, 08:36 AM
thanks for the info that is good to know!

Diesel Durango
03-24-2008, 09:16 AM
No problem! I really like having all the dodge stuff. I know that if i need a part finding one new or used won't be an issue.

RAMMAN4
04-05-2008, 12:40 AM
Very cool buildup with lots of info. It's gotten me thinking about a durango with a 4BT.

duhfactor
05-03-2009, 10:20 PM
Do you think that it is possible to fit the 6 cylinder b series motor in the durrango?? I'm interested in that possibility with the straight axle conversion. Thoughts??

Diesel Durango
05-03-2009, 10:23 PM
Do you think that it is possible to fit the 6 cylinder b series motor in the durrango?? I'm interested in that possibility with the straight axle conversion. Thoughts??

Possible? yes

Easy? no

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=740041

AznDrgn
05-03-2009, 10:46 PM
Do you think that it is possible to fit the 6 cylinder b series motor in the durrango?? I'm interested in that possibility with the straight axle conversion. Thoughts??

Yeah it's possible, there is a guy on here with a 6bt Dakota (Same front end as a Durango) running 3/4 ton ram driveline. Google 6bt Dakota and you should be able to find pics and specs. I think he has a myspace page and he hangs out on one of the other diesel forums a lot too, TDR?

occupant
06-01-2009, 08:03 PM
I imagine the 4bt conversion for a 318/360 2wd Durango would be the easiest to do? 99-00 model? If the 4.7/5-speed auto 00+ models have electronics roadblocks and the 4x4s have front axle clearance issues, the 2wd LA-powered models seem to be the best compromise short of a lift kit. Transmission wise, for a non-intercooled diesel, 100-110hp, plain 4BT, would the A518 (904 based) be sufficient to handle the torque? Or should I insist on finding a 360-powered Durango with the A500 (727 based) transmission?

95Z28A4
06-02-2009, 04:45 AM
Before I started the Grand Cherokee / QSB3.3T conversion, I strongly considered a 4BT Durango and did a lot of research on the Durango conversion. Thanks to the emissions laws in Louisiana, I am stuck with a 1995 or older vehicle for a diesel conversion. Hence, the 1995 Grand Cherokee.

I believe the easiest to convert is a 1998 4X4 Durango. The 1998 Durango uses a conventional steering box instead of rack and pinion. In the newer models, the steering rack resides behind the front diff creating oil pan clearance. A 4X4 frame after the front diff is removed offers more clearance than a 2X4 frame. If you decide you want 4X4 at a later date, you can install a solid axle. Google SAS Durango or SAS Dakota or SFA Durango or SFA Dakota for information. FYI, the 1997 & 1998 4X4 Dakotas have conventional steering boxes.

.

8898Chevs
06-02-2009, 01:37 PM
occupant,

i would suggest using the 727

the A-518 would hold up to the 4BT no problem, but better safe than sorry. here is part of an ad from craigslist that i found. i dont know alot but im assuming that u could get an A-518 in 93 Cummins 6BT. Like i just said, i dont know alot but these trucks but assuming they had 400LBS of torque plus. here be your add. :beer:

The odometer and trip odometer both work which is rare. The 4x4 system all works great. The inter-cooled Cummins turbo diesel engine is pretty clean and HAS had a new Inj. pump put on at one point because its shiny unpainted... factory pumps were black.. not sure when replaced though.

The A-518 heavy duty overdrive auto transmission shifts good & tight, actually very good for one of these and may have been rebuilt at one point. It has newer custom tranny lines, they are definely not factory. fluid is bright red like it should be. These trans are very reliable, this one has low miles even at 176k

The 3.54 geared Dana 70 rear IS a limited slip. The entire 4x4 system works great and the truck is an animal in 4wd low. the front diff is a dana 60 and is in good shape. lift it and make a powerful fun mudder if you want, awesome drivetrain in these trucks

Frozen_Joker
02-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Time to bring this thread back from the dead. Lol. I have a 98 Durango with the 5.9L 360. I do A LOT of towing and the mileage on this thing is highly...well ****TY. I have GREAT power, but 6-9mpg while towing sucks. I would like to do a diesel swap. So far what I read is go with a 4bt, NV4500, leave the rear, swap to a solid front axle. The basics at least. Lol. My question is, how much can I swap from a diesel ram? What year would be best? Budget is the key for me. I can do a bunch of custom work myself. Thanks!

ddintl
02-26-2012, 03:05 PM
if you going to use parts from a ram truck, ust use the 6bt, since you can do the custom work yourself.

Frozen_Joker
03-03-2012, 05:16 PM
I can, but I prefer to keep the custom fabricating a bit lower. My budget is 5k. The thing I see as a problem is the clearance problems. What if I modded the hood to give it more room under there and gave it a 4" or 6" lift, both body and suspension, before the conversion? I have a good idea for the hood that may give it about 8 extra inches under there. And it'll make the truck look meaner. Lol.