harmonic balancer
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    Default harmonic balancer

    has anyone tried to put one of these on an engine that didnt have one?the ones that are installed below the crank inside the pan.They look like theyd be expensive.ive got a 6bt balancer on the crank,but was wanting more.
    4bta 85 dodge prospector shortbread
    TDC 75 HP sticks,hy35,big ass intercooler,6bt intake box w/ k&n,4" straight w/flow-through magnaflow.Oil filter relocation upgrade (ford 7.3d filter)HUGE!

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    I'm planning on putting a Fluidampr on my 4BT. There over $400, but supposed to make the motor last and smooth and more power. Using the stock motor mounts so I fig I'll save on not having to buy Lord's. Gettin cool up thar in NE Oh? pat

    That's an external balancer that I'm using, by the way. No expereince with internal one's.
    Last edited by DieselSchlepper; 09-02-2009 at 08:27 AM. Reason: stoopid
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    Default Harmonic Dampers

    The Cummins service manual states that "the Cummins harmonic damper is reccomended for all 'B' series engines." They reccomend the fluid filled damper for engines running over 2500 rpm. There are also several aftermarket dampers out there.
    I am running a Fluidampr and it works for me.
    1981 Jeep J10, 4BT, AA Ranger Gear Splitter OD, Muncie 465, 208 Xfr, 3.31 Diffs, 31x10.50x15 Tires, Stock VE, Stock Injectors, Fluidamper Harmonic Balancer, 3" Exh/1st Gen Muffler, BD Air Filter/3" Flex Hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dillenger1 View Post
    has anyone tried to put one of these on an engine that didnt have one?the ones that are installed below the crank inside the pan.They look like theyd be expensive.ive got a 6bt balancer on the crank,but was wanting more.
    Expensive, limits your RPM, takes up a hunk of space in a direction most folks don't have a lot left..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobS View Post
    You need to first confirm the problem BEFORE you start buying and replacing parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J10Diesel View Post
    They reccomend the fluid filled damper for engines running over 2500 rpm..
    At those RPM's is when my engine runs the smoothest! I need the balancer for 1300 and under...
    1963 Jeep J300, 4BT/NV4500/NP200/D61/D71
    1969 Jeep M715 6x6 project, 6BTA/NV4500/NP205/D60/D70/D70

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    I'm going to install a Fluidamper on mine, to cut down on vibration transmitted to the frame. They do work and several here have used them successfully.

    They are a bit expensive $400. but you could probably find one off a 6BT in a junk yard for cheap. It's just a viscous damper and doesn't know if it is on a 4 or a 6

    On mine I have to find a smaller pulley to drive the A/C compressor as the rim of the Fluidamper is so big in interfers with the vee belt overlay pulley. I also have to drill and ream a dowel pin hole in the crank to drive the damper.

    I believe the inside the crankcase engine balancers are designed to be used on stationary engines running at constant speeds such as generators, and are designed around certain speeds. They bolt onto the block as a unit (girdle) on top of the mainbearing caps and are geared and timed to the crank. I don't think they are designed to work on "swing load" or automotive type applications.

    Most of the Boat motors I have seen have crank mounted dampers. Which I was told were originally sourced from Fluidamper. Now China.

    Randy
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    You might want to try the Fluidampr and to get better results LReiff told me that the 6BT dampers on the 4BTs ar enot giving good results.



    Quote Originally Posted by dillenger1 View Post
    has anyone tried to put one of these on an engine that didnt have one?the ones that are installed below the crank inside the pan.They look like theyd be expensive.ive got a 6bt balancer on the crank,but was wanting more.
    True self-esteem comes only from what your dog thinks of you.

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    I have a 6bt fluidamper im not talking about that type though.Im talking about the geared balancer that is run off of the crank gear.Its not standard on most 4bts.It is in my cummins shop manual for b series engines ,on page 0-31.Is this what you guys call the fluid dampener?the gear runs 2 cams with weights to counteract the throw of the piston to decrease torsional load
    Last edited by dillenger1; 09-02-2009 at 02:56 PM.
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    Similar setup in my 2.0t Audi it sounds like which I removed.

    DSM guys junk them as well. They tend to let go at high revs and hurt performance.

    understandable from a comfort point of view I guess in these motors, just doesn't seem worth it to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dillenger1 View Post
    I have a 6bt fluidamper im not talking about that type though.Im talking about the geared balancer that is run off of the crank gear.Its not standard on most 4bts.It is in my cummins shop manual for b series engines ,on page 0-31.Is this what you guys call the fluid dampener?the gear runs 2 cams with weights to counteract the throw of the piston to decrease torsional load
    We taked about this a long time ago. Here is the link.

    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...ht=4b+balancer

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselSchlepper View Post
    You might want to try the Fluidampr and to get better results LReiff told me that the 6BT dampers on the 4BTs ar enot giving good results.
    There is more to than just the balancer , what engine mounts, engine rpm ,pump settings.

    Scott

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    what Scott said.

    Randy
    DeScrambler: Built from scratch, 4BT,TH400, USGear OD, Atlas 4.3, HP D44/ 4.10 ARB, HP D60/4.10 ARB, 37" MTR's

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    Cummins did offer a 4b balancer !

    It use the stock 4b lower pulley with a longer bolts and a spacer.

    Scott
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    Last edited by CrewCab59; 09-02-2009 at 06:30 PM.

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    The internal balancers cause oil turbulence which causes frction and cuts HP. As stated above that doesn't matter on stationary engines as much because they can be optimised for certain RPM levels.

    High HP guys run dry sumps because oil drag is inefficient. Also, engineers try things on the public to see how they go and I suspect that internal damping may be one one a' dem thangs. Stick with an external damper - Fluidampr seems to be the best and a good tune and forgetaboutit. That's what I'm doin.
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    Default Types of Harmonic Dampers

    There are two types of harmonic dampers. The first is a damper with a rubber insert. Over time the rubber hardens and can slip out of alignment causing the damper to fail.
    The second type is filled with a fluid and is sealed. Cummins has a fluid damper and there are several aftermarket manufactures.
    The problem I have with trying to tell someone how well a given damper works is that I cannot express vibration as a quanity ( as 12 volts or 125 PSI ).
    In my case I looked at several dampers and bought one. I can say that it reduced my vibration from idle to 2500 rpm. I don't sell dampers and I am not an engineer.
    I did a lot of research before I bought my damper. I selected one that works for me.
    1981 Jeep J10, 4BT, AA Ranger Gear Splitter OD, Muncie 465, 208 Xfr, 3.31 Diffs, 31x10.50x15 Tires, Stock VE, Stock Injectors, Fluidamper Harmonic Balancer, 3" Exh/1st Gen Muffler, BD Air Filter/3" Flex Hose.

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    What damper did you buy? Think vibration is expressed as a frequency. Speakers produce sound by vibration at variable frequencies. Music is smooth vibration, noise is rough. High is fast, low is slow.
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    Default Which Damper

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselSchlepper View Post
    What damper did you buy? Think vibration is expressed as a frequency. Speakers produce sound by vibration at variable frequencies. Music is smooth vibration, noise is rough. High is fast, low is slow.
    I bought the 1st generation Fluidampr. It has reduced my vibration over my entire rpm range.

    Thanks for the vibration defination.

    J10diesel
    1981 Jeep J10, 4BT, AA Ranger Gear Splitter OD, Muncie 465, 208 Xfr, 3.31 Diffs, 31x10.50x15 Tires, Stock VE, Stock Injectors, Fluidamper Harmonic Balancer, 3" Exh/1st Gen Muffler, BD Air Filter/3" Flex Hose.

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    Default Harmonic Balancer Description

    Here is a link to a description of types of harmonic balancers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_balancer
    1981 Jeep J10, 4BT, AA Ranger Gear Splitter OD, Muncie 465, 208 Xfr, 3.31 Diffs, 31x10.50x15 Tires, Stock VE, Stock Injectors, Fluidamper Harmonic Balancer, 3" Exh/1st Gen Muffler, BD Air Filter/3" Flex Hose.

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