Straight Vegetable Oil

[VillaUS]

Anyone here run straight vegetable oil in their 4BT? How does it like it?

[addicted56]

I don't see why not. I know someone who did a 1 tank system on his 12V and has about 20K miles logged.

[66gaza]

Anyone here run straight vegetable oil in their 4BT? How does it like it?

There is a thread about this do a search. I would imagine a 4BT would run on a 1 tank SVO system but for how long?. I personally have too much respect and too much money in mine to put it at that sort of risk. I imagine the inline pumps more robust for this but the VE pumps are still very capable. I would run a 2 tank system that heated it and switched when warm them back to diesel to flush before switching off. The 6bt run fine on wvo, how well and for how long would depend on which system you go with. Heat & filtering are the key. I think you know this and I cannot answer your question from personal experience on a cummins. I have dabbled with bio but only ran 50/50 and blended svo with pump diesel 20/80. Someone with 1st hand experience will probably jump in. Cold wvo is hard on I/P's and cokes up injectors causing bad spray pattern damaging cylinder walls and unburnt WVO ends up diluting the lube oil. If you are gonna run wvo my advice would be to filter b4 putting in tank and then heat & filter again (finer the better) have 2 totally independent pump/filter/tank systems. I would also keep a closer eye on the lube aswell.here is a link to a svo thread http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...ight=biodiesel

Gaza

[addicted56]

Ohh I agree. I just finished my WVO conversion on My 300TD today. 2 Tank all the way. I've run my PSD on it for 3 years now. Also a 2 tank system. I'm not a big proponent of the 1 tank system either.

[VillaUS]

Thanks for the link Gaza. I'll check it out. I'm hoping someone actually has first-hand experience.

There is a lot of info out there on 1 tank v. 2 tank systems. Elsbett (a German company) makes conversion kits and part of their kit is modified injectors which alter the spray pattern.

[addicted56]

Thanks for the link Gaza. I'll check it out. I'm hoping someone actually has first-hand experience.

There is a lot of info out there on 1 tank v. 2 tank systems. Elsbett (a German company) makes conversion kits and part of their kit is modified injectors which alter the spray pattern.

Go two tank and go cheap esp on these IDI's. I spent 1700 on my PSD with all that name brand crap and 250 on my WVO system and I feel safer and better about my homebrew than I do the expensive stuff. Save yourself 1500 and buy some new shoes

[CrewCab59]

They run just fine,I have used new VO even when it cold out,just add a little diesel to thin it out .

CrewCab59

[dieselcruiserhead]

I have been hearing from a shop that's done a few 4BT swaps that some grease comes out of the exhaust holes. Meaning that maybe its not combusting completely? Oil is properly heated, and it is on the 4BTs only. they are used Frito models, so a little confused personally. I don't see how the 6 cyl and 4 cyl could really have much difference.

[uglyoldbob]

I have been hearing from a shop that's done a few 4BT swaps that some grease comes out of the exhaust holes. Meaning that maybe its not combusting completely? Oil is properly heated, and it is on the 4BTs only. they are used Frito models, so a little confused personally. I don't see how the 6 cyl and 4 cyl could really have much difference.

It's so people can find the Frito Lay plant.

[mljjones67]

[Diesel Durango]

in stead of bio diesel or SVO, what about a WVO/#2 mix

What kind of modifications would be needed to make this work? could i run a 1 tank system? Fitting a 2 tank system would be difficult unless i move the spare tire somewhere. I don't have a trunk or bed and you can't legally have a fuel tank in the passenger compartment.

[addicted56]

Well in the summer you would have no problems. In the winter watch out though. Not necessarily from gelling of the fuel but of the Wax preciptating out and clogging filters and lining in your tank. Been there done that. Not fun. Went to a two tank a month later. But it worked fine all summer. This is in my Benz. Had a two tank in the PSD since the get go.

[Boarlard]

My buddy has a 4bt in an old suburban and has approx 100,000 miles on WVO cut with approx 10% gasoline. He has a one tank system and a fuel line heater. He says that he can run this mixture to about the same outside air temperature as #2 diesel. He also runs it in his 6bt powered DODGE 3500 but doesn't have as many miles on WVO with that. I run a 50/50 mixture of WVO and diesel in my rabbit but I only have about 5000 miles doing that. Oh yes he filters down to 5 microns before it goes in his truck and he always carries extra fuel filters with him. He put an inline fuel pump so he can easily blead out the air when he changes filters.

[villelobos]

What filters do you run with veggie? Where do you buy them? Thanks Jack

[Machman]

Most, if not all, the WVO conversions / adaptations I've seen involve adding filters to the system (usually a big ol' heated filter) as a pre-filter for the existing fuel filter. Also, there are filters that are used as part of the collecting / cleaning process before you pump it into your tank.

Here's Frybrid's filter page: http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm

Here's Greasecar's page for collection filtering products: http://www.frybrid.com/filters.htm

And, Golden Fuel's filter page:

http://www.goldenfuelsystems.com/pro...el_filters.php

It's really a question of what filters you want to run, how much $$ you want to drop into it, or whose system you want to get..

[veggiecummins]

I've owned Racor (Golden) and Frybrid filters and found this one to be the best all around cooking oil filter:

http://www.vegpower.com/order/catpag...at_selected=55

VC

[studlybilly]

So, say I can get 220gal of SVO for $220. That comes out to $1/gal. I know you simply need to heat SVO to 160-180*F in order for it to run in a diesel. My questions are:

Running an inline filter/heater deal just before the lift pump, wouldn't the oil primed after the lift pump still be cold and un-usable? Or do you rig this joker something further in the fueling system?

If I run WVO is the same heater needed?

[roverhybrids]

So, say I can get 220gal of SVO for $220. That comes out to $1/gal. I know you simply need to heat SVO to 160-180*F in order for it to run in a diesel. My questions are:

Running an inline filter/heater deal just before the lift pump, wouldn't the oil primed after the lift pump still be cold and un-usable? Or do you rig this joker something further in the fueling system?

If I run WVO is the same heater needed?

"Simply' heating VO to 160 is not as easy as adding a heated filter. You'll need a heat exchanger or two or three..........

[studlybilly]

"Simply' heating VO to 160 is not as easy as adding a heated filter. You'll need a heat exchanger or two or three..........

I intended to run a in tank heater and a inline heater/filter as well.

[roverhybrids]

What I'm trying to say is that no heated filter on the market will heat the fuel to 160. Surely one could make a tank heater to heat the fuel(in the tank) to 160 , but the lines and filter would still be filled with "cold" oil. You will need a real heat exchanger like a brazed plate heat exchanger or similar.

I'm not sure if you are saying that you plan on an inline heater AND a heated filter or if you think that a heated filter is available that will do both.

[studlybilly]

What I'm trying to say is that no heated filter on the market will heat the fuel to 160. Surely one could make a tank heater to heat the fuel(in the tank) to 160 , but the lines and filter would still be filled with "cold" oil. You will need a real heat exchanger like a brazed plate heat exchanger or similar.

I'm not sure if you are saying that you plan on an inline heater AND a heated filter or if you think that a heated filter is available that will do both.

I wouldn't think of it as an inline heater, I was saying the "Magnum heater" from greasekings.com and then run there injection line heaters as well. Should be ample in getting things heated for a one tank setup?

[robmobile1970]

Before the fuel goes to the injection pump it circulates through the head. If the engine is warmed up this will help heat the fuel before the injection pump. If you can just get it to the head.

[JBox_Johnny]

i run veg oil in my cj 4bta it dosen't flinch when i switch over...
no smoke or loss of power...
getting the oil to temp takes time with the 4bt in the winter it is a cold runing engine...

[dieselcruiserhead]

I started reading heavily including a study by Caterpillar with SVO where if it was not heated correctly it lead to coking in the engine and buildup of residue that eventually compromised engine performance... For what its worth. I personally wouldn't even think of running a 1 tank system. Two tank though, I'm sold

[beck]

i run veg oil in my cj 4bta it dosen't flinch when i switch over...
no smoke or loss of power...
getting the oil to temp takes time with the 4bt in the winter it is a cold runing engine...

I was wondering about the veg oil heat up time in the winter. My truck isn't on the road yet so I have not experienced the cool running 4bt. I had been playing with gas street rods. The problem with them was keeping them cool. How long does it take in the winter to get the veg oil up to usable temps?
I had really considered WVO with a 2 tank system for my truck. My trips are typically about 25 miles. With the slow heating of the 4bt I thought that by the time the WVO was heated enough to use I would be stopping. I decided that although bio is more expensive to make I would get more benifit because I would be using it all the time. I haven't started the bio production yet either. I do still keep thinking about running straight veg oil. Like others have said, it would have to be a 2 tank system for me. I have my tank installed and my standard (bio compatable) lines installed so I would have to do some re-engineering if I wanted to swap.

[studlybilly]

Before the fuel goes to the injection pump it circulates through the head. If the engine is warmed up this will help heat the fuel before the injection pump. If you can just get it to the head.

So a heater before the lift pump would be ample (so long as it's capable of heating things to 160*)?

It's just freaky to even ponder the idea of pouring Vegetable oil into your gas tank and drive around.

[robmobile1970]

really don't know if it will be OK or not. I am about to run my first tank of veg oil blend. 15 gal of SVO filtered to 5micron mixed with 2 gal unleaded. Supposedly this works unheated. I live in the middle of NC. It's rarely below 25 degrees. Most days in the winter it is around 50 in the daytime. If you live in North Dakota or up in New England it's probably alot more critical for you. The SVO I got is canola and is fairly fluid. My only concern right now is water in the oil. I need to get a filter that filters out droplets of water. I'll post again after my first tank.

[JimmieD]

You can be looking at some huge problems with a WVO Waste Vegetable Oil setup, and somewhat similar with VO. If the 'fuel' is overheated it will polymerize, as in turn to a plastic like substance, waiting to kill you Injection Pump & injectors. If it is underheated the flow restrictions can kill you, and also cause cokeing as mentioned. The cokeing can destroy the injectors, pistons, rings and cylinder bore.

There is a water problem with WVO, in that solid particulate masses [microscopic food particles] go into suspension combined with water in the fuel. Because the two combine togther almost as one molecular part it is very difficult to separate. In the unseparated condition the water/food particle scars up the injection pump and causes injector erosion plus contributing to cokeing. Filters alone cannot reliably or economically remove these contaminants.

There are various ways to heat the VO or WVO mixture, most commonly a flat plate heat exchanger, plus heated filter, lines, and injectors, all heated! Veg tank contents need heating as well. There's several 12VDC & 120V AC drop in heaters. WVO requires quite a bit of pre-running processing.

A simple filtration even down to .5 micron is NOT enough to protect your IP and engine parts, heated filter or not.

I'm not saying it won't work! It will, but do some very deep internet searching and fully educate yourself. There's several dishonest companies selling conversion kits that are so cheap and easy it almost seems to be too good to be true. It is. They don't care about your dead engine as long as they make their fast bucks. LOTS of very unhappy guys bought their wonder product and lost it all.

No way this is a near freebie conversion if you want to keep your machine running for more than a year. It takes a very well assembled assortment of parts and pieces and some serious engineering to get it right. Any shortcuts can destroy your engine real quick. It can be done, but only after some very heavy research on what works, what doesn't.

[willowbilly3]

What would the ideal teperature range be for straight filtered wvo?

[philly301]

I am running SVO all I am doing is a 2 tank system, heat from the the coolant to reach 160 deg. and I am amazed by how good it runs. still pretty new so we will see what problems if any occur.