Intake heater
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    Default Intake heater

    I was wondering if anyone has tried using an intake heater off of a tractor? I see them on ebay for around $20. To me, it looks like you could make one work on a 4bt with a little drilling and tapping. I think a person could drill in, at an angle, at the base of the pipe coming over from the turbo side. There is a flat spot that would make this an easy task.

    Any ideas? Has anyone tried this and made it work?
    Last edited by x8liter; 12-05-2009 at 11:36 PM.

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    You mean like this?
    Last edited by scout4bta; 12-26-2011 at 06:42 PM.
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    1980 Scout II:92 Dodge CAC, NV4500, 3.73 gears, Atlas 4.33, rolling on 33/10.50 BFG KM2, modified H1C:12cm2, 3200 governed. Fuel screw in one turn. Cold air intake. Timing +1/8. Mileage:low 20s to high 20s. The swap

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    I did see your thread and that was what got me to thinking. Nice job by the way. The intake heaters I was looking at was round and maybe an inch in diameter. I just have a standard 4bt air horn on my engine. So it would take a lot of work to make my intake work like yours. I thought that it would be less work to get a tractor intake heater and drill in to my intake. Just wondering if anyone had tried the tractor parts?

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    Here is a picture of the intake heater that I was thinking about.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Good idea - can you post a link to ebay or elsewhere, where these are for sale? I'm interested but would like to research it a bit first...
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    I searched ebay for intake heaters and found a couple of different ones. The picture is of a ford tractor heater but there was another one listed too. They look a lot alike.

    I haven't posted enough times to be able to list the link on ebay. Sorry. But a search should turn them up!

    I'm I wrong in thinking this might work?

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    I found them - did a search. I've got a couple of emails out to the sellers asking a few questions...

    I'm interested in this as well. More info is needed! Anyone familiar with this Perkins setup? I'd like to know where it is mounted on the Perkins, and amp, voltage, hook-up instructions, duty cycle, etc. I've got questions in to two sellers - one has responded and could tell me very little (not even the thread size/pitch)!

    If this would work it would be a simple solution for a "grid heater" for those of us who do not want to have to redo the crossover and intake horn.
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    http://islander36.org/perkins/shopmanual.pdf

    Found this manual online - check out pages 26 and 31-34.

    Some good info on the manifold heaters used by Perkins...

    Hmmmmm....
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    That is interesting...keep us posted on what you find out. Your right, this could be a good alternative to the grid heater.
    Jordan
    '95 Ford F-150 4x4 -- 4bt, M5R2 Buildup Thread
    "If it ain't broke, mess with it 'till it is"

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    You could drill and tap for glowplugs on a busbar,yes?
    4bta 85 dodge prospector shortbread
    TDC 75 HP sticks,hy35,big ass intercooler,6bt intake box w/ k&n,4" straight w/flow-through magnaflow.Oil filter relocation upgrade (ford 7.3d filter)HUGE!

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    I looked into the Ford heaters a little more. Seems they are meant to be used with a fuel drip system of some sort. I guess they heat the intake to a certain temp and then drip a little fuel into the intake. The fuel vaporizes from the heat which is supposed to help the starting process better than with just straight warm air. I've seen a similar setup on a Yanmar tractor.

    I'm interested in the Perkins set up. I didn't have time to look into that yet. But I'll try to see what I can find out there too.

    Tractorbynet had some good info on diesel tractors.

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    According to what I read in the pdf'd Perkins manual, it uses a gravity flow fuel system too. Not that that would be bad, but I'd feel better seeing the whole system in place before attempting to make something.

    When I lived in S. Illinois, I could go to Sikeston, MO to the tractor salvage yards and get all kinds of stuff like this...not in Wyoming though.
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    Ok. The Perkins works like the Yanmar. It had a small plastic tank that sat above the air cleaner and just dripped fuel by way of gravity too. Pretty simple system, I guess. But the tractor had bad rings, so it wouldn't fire no matter what we did .

    I wonder if the heater would be enough on it own to get the intake temp up? I know that we didn't have any fuel in the bowl on the Yanmar, but we were still using the heater.

    I'll have to check and see if you could just plug the fuel line off at the the top of the heater without hurting anything. What intake temp is a person shooting for? I think I read somewhere that 59 degrees was what the 5.9 liked.

    Wyoming must be like Montana, we'll just keep fixing our old junk tractors .

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    Quote Originally Posted by dillenger1 View Post
    You could drill and tap for glowplugs on a busbar,yes?
    Would you have to stick a glow plug in each cylinder? Or could you use one in the intake like a grid heater? I guess I don't know what a busbar is.

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    busbar is what connects more then 2 plugs together.You could tap your alluminum intake on 2 sides then run a glow relay off a old vw 1.6.It will get them red hot to heat the air coming into the cylinders.The mercedes or vw units should work great.You can also use a toggle switch to activate them in time of need.They would draw less current then the grid heater.The grid uses alot of juice.
    4bta 85 dodge prospector shortbread
    TDC 75 HP sticks,hy35,big ass intercooler,6bt intake box w/ k&n,4" straight w/flow-through magnaflow.Oil filter relocation upgrade (ford 7.3d filter)HUGE!

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    Ok. I see what you're talking about now. Thanks. I'll check those out too!

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    Let me know what you come up with on the Perkins system -- I am interested!

    Busy this week, but I'll search around a little more this weekend, if you haven't already figured out the in's and out's of it...

    Yeah, WY is like MT!
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    Not sure if it qualifies as a "Perkins System" but at work we have an old Coleman Aircraft tug and it has a Perkins engine with an intake heater setup.

    The elements look like spark plugs from the outside (2 ea), but they have a longer center "electrode" and a coil that goes back to the shell.

    On the Perkins, without any extra fuel it takes holding the pre heat button on for over a minute (maybe a couple times) if it's below +20*F. Even with a tank type engine heater it didn't like starting if it was below 0*F.

    With one large battery (aka "Cat" battery) it would often run out of power before you got sufficient pre heat to start (cranks too slow afterwards).

    We park it inside now, when it's below about +45* F, so we don't use the intake heater anymore.

    It would likely function better with a dual battery setup, as there are more Amps available, and the lower internal battery resistance (from paralelling them) should allow the heaters to come up to temp somewhat earlier.

    The system is manual, a button on the dash, wired to a Ford type starter solenoid. Punching the button energises the solenoid, which closes it's contacts, energising the heaters. Button is fed power from the "run" and "start" posts off the "ignition" switch. (so if the button sticks you would have to leave the key on, with the engine off to drain the battery). I forget how big (Amp rating) the alternator is, but it's one ofthe larger commercial ones IIRC.

    FWIW when I started with this company the tug in question had a "zero start" starting fluid system wired to that button. It was empty when I hired on, AFAIK the cartridge never got replaced (so I can't compare how well it worked). So the system as it's installed now is likely just something cobbled together.
    Erik
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    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9646
    '94 4BD2-TC, HY35W (early) with 3" exhaust & exhaust brake, 'more power screw' maxed, defuel turned up, pump turned up internally by accident.

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    Nexxussian, thankl for all the info on the Perkins. Sounds like you've worked with them a bit .

    Mineitnow, I'll keep looking. This cold weather has been keeping me busy trying to keep everything running. I hope it lets up soon.

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    I have a JVB backhoe from the 70's with a leyland engine that has a intake heater that is a glow coil with a fuel line from the filter that is between the transfer pump and the injection pump. According to the manual, the ign switch is turned to the first position for 5 to 10 sec before cranking the engine over. Mine did not work and there is no Jcb dealers close by, so i did some research and found the coil or one that would work at a tractor place that sold parts for ford tractors, cost around 37.50. The wiring is all messed up so I run a jumper to the battery. Dont have time to fix the wiring right now. I took the intake tubing off and looked at what happened, the glow coil got hot in around 5 sec,( when the coil is hot enough it opens a valve to let fuel flow, after the coil cools down the valve closes stopping the fuel) cranked the engine over, as soon as fuel pressure was there a flame 2 to 3 inch long was burning. It really helps start the engine when it is 20 or below. According to my manual you can leave the coil on when its very cold to aid in the engine warm up. Army trucks with the cummins engine had something similar, used a hand pump below the dash to supply the fuel. I dont remember the part #, Ill try to find it, lost alot of data in a cumputor crash. hope this helps.

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    Great info mstanm! Keep it coming. This might eventually be the route that I take...
    92 F150 4x4, 4BT, Mazda 5spd., 2 1/2" into 3" straight pipe exhaust
    96 F250 4x4, Powerstroke, 5 spd., 4" straight pipe dual exhaust
    "When all else fails, go to South America"

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    Default Yanmar Air Heater

    Found these part numbers from a old post I'd kept. These are intake heating grids for Yanmar Diesels in a cylinder form for mounting inline, except the last number has a 4 bolt flange.

    129400-77501 inline
    129100-77500 inline
    121850-77050 flange

    I checked the part numbers and they are good, but no pictures.
    Don't know the sizes.
    NRA Life Endowment member
    1980 Scout II:92 Dodge CAC, NV4500, 3.73 gears, Atlas 4.33, rolling on 33/10.50 BFG KM2, modified H1C:12cm2, 3200 governed. Fuel screw in one turn. Cold air intake. Timing +1/8. Mileage:low 20s to high 20s. The swap

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    Default thermostart

    I found the old one and box. It is called a thermostart and it is put on a lot of engines, I found a ford part #, c5ne9a436a. I also found a description and diagram on a site called, davidbrownsupport.com

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    Default Ag-Chem Rogator flame heater

    I used to operate AG-Chem Rogators they had 6bt's in them and there was a buttom on the dash for the engine intake flame heater for cold starts. Will have to do some research to find out how it actually worked.

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    Default Perkins cold start device $20

    Quote Originally Posted by x8liter View Post
    I was wondering if anyone has tried using an intake heater off of a tractor? I see them on ebay for around $20. To me, it looks like you could make one work on a 4bt with a little drilling and tapping. I think a person could drill in, at an angle, at the base of the pipe coming over from the turbo side. There is a flat spot that would make this an easy task.

    Any ideas? Has anyone tried this and made it work?
    The Perkins cold start device works excellent and cost very little. It is installed into the intake manifold, I believe it is 7/8" fine thread, you will need to plumb a low pressure fuel line to it, "T" off at the fuel filter head, then connect 12 volts to the terminal with a momentary switch. Cold start operation is as follows: Apply 12 volts to the device for about 20 seconds, then crank engine until engine starts as you continue power to it. Here's how it works: when power is applied, a small wire element heats up and opens a valve to allowing fuel to drip onto the hot element, the vaporized fuel is pulled into the engine and aids starting. It will work with gravity feed, mechanical lift pump or electric lift pump. For $20 it's impressive and won't damage an engine like ether. I am a Perkins dealer and stock them and the fuel line connections to plumb to 3/16" steel line. In fact we package it as a kit for the Perkins engines that are brought up here to Minnesota from down south and weren't spec'd with the cold start option from the factory. Perkins part number for the cold start device is 2666103 with screw terminal electrical connector, 2666108 spade terminal connector. Get the 2666103 with the screw terminal connector, the spade terminal connector is an odd size. The device draws about 10 amps, there is a dropping resister available if you want to use it with a 24 volt system.

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    Ford part # C5NE9A436A $18.00 + shipping 814-793-3711 JLK
    1973 F-250 with 4BTA and GM NV4500, 3.73 Ratio Dana 44 Front and Dana 60 rear. 31.5" tires. HY35W Holset Turbo with Denny T Stage II fuel pin and 4" Exhaust. Enjoying driving every day. Work in progress. God is good all the time!

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    I would love to see some photos of the Perkins cold start mechanism. Sounds good. Also think it would be safe with a grid heater also? Gets to -10F sometimes in winter so I'm not sure the Cummins grid heater will do the trick alone especially if one grid is disabled?
    1991 Toyota Pickup, Mercedes 300D OM617 diesel
    1969 Land Cruiser project in progress with 4BT
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    Successfully installed 4BT, Isuzu 4BD1T, and Mercedes 300D engines into different vehicles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtservicesinc.com View Post
    The Perkins cold start device works excellent and cost very little. It is installed into the intake manifold, I believe it is 7/8" fine thread, you will need to plumb a low pressure fuel line to it, "T" off at the fuel filter head, then connect 12 volts to the terminal with a momentary switch. Cold start operation is as follows: Apply 12 volts to the device for about 20 seconds, then crank engine until engine starts as you continue power to it. Here's how it works: when power is applied, a small wire element heats up and opens a valve to allowing fuel to drip onto the hot element, the vaporized fuel is pulled into the engine and aids starting. It will work with gravity feed, mechanical lift pump or electric lift pump. For $20 it's impressive and won't damage an engine like ether. I am a Perkins dealer and stock them and the fuel line connections to plumb to 3/16" steel line. In fact we package it as a kit for the Perkins engines that are brought up here to Minnesota from down south and weren't spec'd with the cold start option from the factory. Perkins part number for the cold start device is 2666103 with screw terminal electrical connector, 2666108 spade terminal connector. Get the 2666103 with the screw terminal connector, the spade terminal connector is an odd size. The device draws about 10 amps, there is a dropping resister available if you want to use it with a 24 volt system.
    Thanks for the info! I think you've sold me on this set up! If you don't mind me asking, what does the screw kit run money wise?

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    Subscribed!
    -Jason
    92' FJ80 LAND CRUISER 260k&26k +6"/4.88's/2WD/ARBs chromo'd/40's 20's 39.5 15's/700R4 1200 stall/2batts/3" intake FMIC/366/stock+dynamic tim/5x14's/pin 90*/170 amp alt/HX35

    To come: INSTALL PERKINS INTAKE HEATER in intake manifold, hx30/s300?, winch, aux veggie fuel setup.....

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    I am interested in the Perkins setup as well.

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