teach me to ID a "P" pump compared to "VE"
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Thread: teach me to ID a "P" pump compared to "VE"

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    Default teach me to ID a "P" pump compared to "VE"

    I see lots of threads talking about both the "VE" and the "P" pumps but nothing that really would help a new guy Identify witch pump he is looking at (only dumb question is the one not asked) I am trying to learn to prevent wasted expense down the road

    It is my understand form what I read and hear that the "P" pump is better for my needs, it would allow me to run less electronics and does better with WVO and bio-diesel , plus the older engines with P pumps seem to get better mileage (if I am wrong please correct me )

    If I was looking at a 2001 24v (or any other) 6bt engine to rebuild how would I identify witch pump I am looking at ? if only by the casting numbers is there a web address with a chart I can print out ?

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    The p-pump is an inline pump ie the fuel lines on the pump are all in a row the ve pump is a rotary pump with the computer controlling some of the timing. the p pump can move more fuel than the ve can. google images can get you some visual identification

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    Quote Originally Posted by greaser View Post
    The p-pump is an inline pump ie the fuel lines on the pump are all in a row the ve pump is a rotary pump with the computer controlling some of the timing. the p pump can move more fuel than the ve can. google images can get you some visual identification
    Partially correct but incomplete. There are other rotary and inline pumps used on 4BT engines; Lucas & Stanadyne as examples. The best method is to get the Engine CPL number along with the injection pump number and check with a Cummins dealer for the correct identification.
    BobS

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    checking back with a dealer makes it hard for this particular deal unfortunately , the guy is about 2.5 hours drive form me and has a parts/rebuild 6BT engine with cracked head. He is selling the pump separate and it is all in his storage unit so I really can't get any numbers or see it until I get down there this weekend . At a 5 hour round trip I am only making it once, I will either buy it or not, but would hate to buy it then find out its a VE pump that I don't want


    The inline fuel lines seem simple enough , at least I should have better then 50/50 chance that way
    Last edited by goldhunter_2; 01-12-2010 at 08:24 AM.

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    The 2001 24 valve doesn't have either Injector pump you mentioned (Ve,or P pump),it came with a VP 44 bosch IP.Unless someone modified the 24 valve ti a P pump.....the 6 cylinder cummins had a VE until the end of 93,went to the P pump until about mid year 98,VP44 until the end of 2002.Hope this helps.You can run a search on Google for pictures of each one.

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    If it's a 2001 Dodge it won't have a VE pump. The last VE 6BT Dodge used was 1993. From memory I think it may have the expensive VP series that was highly prone to failures do to lift pump problems in the tank.
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    see I learn something new all the time I was just thinking there where the two different style pumps and didn't comprehend the "VP" pump if they where prone to problems I defiantly do not want a VP pump , for ID proposes are they rotary fuel lines coming off the pump like talked about above on the VE pumps?


    My old 96 truck I like must have been a P pump then, at this time I do not know if this 2001 24v has the original pump or it has been changed but I will ask the seller

    nobody has mentioned value/prices of a good used pump does anyone know what there worth?

    VE = $????
    VP = $????
    P = $????

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    The VP 44 as mentioned above,is prone to failures if the lift pump craps out.Please run a google search about them,with pictures.The prices are all over the map on these,and there are a few different versions.The last three numbers are what you can go by:,the ones for the buses,medium duty delivery trucks,and Freightliner trucks,are pretty reliable.If you choose the 24 valve route,then you need to make sure you have the TPS,and ECU,and the PCM to run the VP44 pump.It is full electronic.The bus,and medium duty trucks are easier to swap,because they have a TPS on the foot throttle pedal,and less electronic input sensors.For what its worth,I have a 2002 3500 H.O.Cummins,and have been pretty happy with its VP 44,I did change mine out,years ago,and used the latest version VP available to me then,AND I run a FASS fuel pump system,and keep a minimum of 13# fuel pressure.If you swap,make sure you have a fuel pressure gauge on it,so that you know how much you have at all times.The fuel in a VP 44 cools,and lubricates the pump,and pressure is VERY important to the life of it.There have been a few swaps on this forum using a 24 valve Cummins,and I have seen a couple of Common Rail swaps that looked real nice.

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    I was just searching ebay and Google and can see some pictures . I can see the difference now in the "p" pumps and also found rebuild kits for VE pumps .

    Honestly I wanted the 12V because that is what I had before and was very happy with it towing and mileage wise......but money wise this 24V is a engine I can afford to pick up right now, but don't think I will buy his pump unless it is a "P" I just don't think I want the hassle of failure or the extra electronics considering what I am putting it in (1931 chevy crew cab) I would like it as simple as realistically possible.

    thanks for the help everyone.

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    That 24 valve engine may be no bargin for you with the electronics to make it all work.You'll be happier in the long run to just get a 12 valve.Swapping from a VP44 to a P pump is a lot of parts chasing,and putting it all together.There are a couple of 12 valve 6BT's for sale here....do a little checking in the classifieds on this forum....How long is the front of that 31?? You may want to try a shorter 4BT,just saying......

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    Just looked at ebay,many to choose from,one is a 98 truck,complete,$2500....

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    the guy has pulled whats required to get the head off and basically that's it he's offer it to me for $330 without the pump witch I thought was pretty good probably worth that in scrap metal so I figured it was hard to go wrong


    actual the 31 chevy trucks both 1/2 ton and 1.5 ton had inline six cylinder engines the catch is the front end narrows down so guy that use the V8's have to remove the side panels on the hood witch I want to keep. I do have to stretch the cab anyway to fit four doors so if needed I could add a little to the engine compartment . I did think hard about several different turbo 4 cylinders for fuel Mileage but I tow allot, the kids four wheelers on a big dual axle trailer is heavy and the airboats are fairly light but offer allot of wind resistance and I plan on two of them ....one on the trailer and one on a rollback type bed so a 6BT I think is a good choice. I had a 80's chevy 8cyl and it was ok and a 2001 ford you couldn't give me one of those engines again but the 1996 Cummings pulled what ever I hooked to and back then it was case 580, Case 450 loader or case 350 dozer so I already know it handles a load

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    There were a couple of bad years for the 6 cylinder blocks,they started with a certain number,I don't remember which one it was,and those blocks very very prone to cracking,and leaking.....check out some of the forum,or contact one of the vendors here who build these...

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    89-93 6BT VE
    94-98 6BT P7100
    98- 02 (as others say, i dont remember) VP44

    if you dont want to have to worry about a bunch of wiring go for a 12 valve not a 24.

    depeneding on how much power you want changes what motor to look for.

    A reasonable easy HP to reach with a VE is 400HP, after that gets expensive and reqiures someone who good at tuning a VE

    p7100 pumps can support upwards of 800HP

    But if you dont wanna spend as much for your swap look for a first gen (89-93)

    89-91 are non Intercooled turbo diesels with bigger injectors to keep EGT's down. It is comon for people to take a air to air from a 7.3

    91.5-93 are intercooled turbo diesels, smaller injectors (92-93 have a tach wire, this will save you a few bucks if you want a tach in your conversion)

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    I think I am going to still look at it because of the price if no other reason and I still have to see what pump he actual has though we are thinking the VP44 now but the general consensus of the posts seem to be to find a different 6bt engine with the pump I want or some other type of diesel powerplant . I will have to think about it a little more again


    SeckSeySam,
    400, 800 hp would be nice but probably would be overkill for my needs now days my normal loads now would be one of these ; single airboat , airboat on flatbed & one on trailer, four 4wheelers heavy dual axle steel trailer , small car maybe if I had to. I mainly need in town driving but have to be able to tow faster highway speeds if called for a rescue (or just going to go ride )

    I know now for sure I do want the "P" pump to run WVO and Biodiesel , one because I use so much fuel as it is now (average three 42 gal tanks a week if I don't go to the everglades or lake) and second because I have a friend who owns a local restaurant and I can get all the WVO I want so I mite as well be able to run it



    thank you every one for the help

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    You don't need to double check the pump, if it's a 24v 5.9 it will have a VP44. Unless it had a bosch p7100 installed in a shop which i highly doubt.

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    #1 89-93 VE rotary pump
    #2 94-98 Bosch P-7100 inline pump
    #3 98.5-02 VP44 pump

    Everyone likes pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Dodges View Post
    There were a couple of bad years for the 6 cylinder blocks,they started with a certain number,I don't remember which one it was,and those blocks very very prone to cracking,and leaking.....check out some of the forum,or contact one of the vendors here who build these...
    The "53" blocks were more prone to cracking (24v ISB engine in a 1998-2001 model year vehicle), They are made in Brazil and also are stamped "TUPY". Not all TUPY blocks are 53's though.

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    I solved the problem and bought a whole 4x4 truck its a 95 with the P pump I have not had time to start striping it down yet as I have been trying to move and it will take me a little while to get organized again

    thanks for all the help

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