The complete Allison 1000/2000/2400 info and swap guide thread
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Thread: The complete Allison 1000/2000/2400 info and swap guide thread

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    Default The complete Allison 1000/2000/2400 info and swap guide thread

    I decided to start a thread devoted to this trans for a couple reasons. First off, there is a LOT, and I mean a LOT of misinformation out there. Second, there is little useful info for some basic specifications on these transmissions. Finally, a lot of guys think they are too complicated or too expensive, when in fact they are no more complicated or expensive than, say, a 4L80E or 48RE that is built to do the same thing. Since I have decided to swap a 1000 into my truck I have been heavily researching all the details. While I still don't have all the answers I want, I do have most that I need, and I figured why not consolidate this information somewhere to help out other folks who contemplate this swap. I think a lot of folks get turned off of an Ally swap simply because the information is sporadic and often contradictory.

    With that said, my goal for this thread is to include as much FACTUAL INFORMATION as possible. If info is prefaced by "I think", "Supposedly", "I heard", "My friend said", etc. I don't consider it factual. I don't want a thread full of anecdotal information, but rather facts that people can use to make an informed decision and help them successfully complete a swap. With that said, including unconfirmed info and opinions is fine as long as it is presented as such.

    Also, when adding any information, make sure to specify what generation of Allison it belongs to. There is the pre-2004 5 speed, 04-05 5 speed, and 06-up 6 speed, with various revisions among the years. Try to be as specific as possible.

    Anyway, with that said I will start with some basic info about the 1000/2000/2400 series.

    GENERAL INFORMATION

    The Allison 1000/2000/2400 series are torque converter driven, fully automatic transmissions with 5 or 6 forward speeds. 5th and 6th are overdrive gears, and the overall ratios are dependent on model. All have a neutral and reverse gear as well, and the 1000 and 2400 series have a park position which actuates an integral park pawl. The basic max ratings for this series of transmission is 300HP, 550lb-ft input torque without SEM/torque management, 620lb-ft input torque with SEM/torque management, and 850lb-ft turbine torque. These are the ratings published by Allison for MD on-road use. As we know, the ratings for GM pickups with the DMax are higher, but the GVW and duty cycle of a pickup are less than a Md truck, so Allison rates the trans conservatively. No doubt the software in the TCM has a huge impact on the amount of power the trans can really take. GVW and GCW ratings of the trans depends mainly on whether the unit has a park pawl (units with park pawl are rated lower). GVW varies from 19,500lbs for the 1000 series to 33,000lbs for units without park. GCW ranges from 26,000lbs to 33,000lbs. Complete ratings and specs can be found here.

    The gear ratios for the various models are as follows:

    ..........1000..........2000/2400

    1st.....3.10...........3.51
    2nd....1.81...........1.90
    3rd.....1.41...........1.44
    4th.....1.00...........1.00
    5th.....0.71...........0.74
    6th.....0.61...........0.64 (06-up models only)
    Rev.....4.49...........5.09

    INTERNAL OPERATION

    Internally, the transmissions have three planetary gear sets controlled by 5 sets of clutches, labeled C1-C5. 2 clutch packs (C1-C2) are rotating, and transfer input torque to certain elements in the planetary sets, while the remaining 3 sets (c3-C5) are stationary and lock each of the ring gears and their coupled components to the case when engaged. These transmissions contain no bands, sprags, or roller clutches - all gear changes are accomplished by direct clutch-to-clutch changes. Clutch engagements for each gear are as follows:

    .............C1........C2........C3........C4..... ...C5

    Park.............................................. ............*
    Rev..................................*............ ...........*
    Neu............................................... ...........*
    1st........*...................................... ............*
    2nd.......*......................................* ...........
    3rd.......*..........................*............ ............
    4th........*............*......................... ............
    5th......................*............*........... ............
    6th......................*........................ *........... (06-up models only)

    VALVE BODY AND TRANSMISSION ELECTRICAL

    Shifting is controlled electronically. The valve body contains 6 (03-earlier) or 7 (04-up) solenoids which control all functions. Solenoids A and B are "trim" solenoids which regulate the pressure to the on coming and off going clutches. both are pressure proportional to current (PPC) solenoids which operate at a frequency of 1KHz. Solenoid A is normally closed, providing full line pressure at zero current and zero pressure at 100% current. Solenoid B is normally open, and provides zero pressure at zero current and full line pressure at 100% current. Solenoid A controls the oncoming and applied clutches while B controls the offgoing clutch. In the event of power or TCM failure solenoid A will default to full pressure while B defaults to zero pressure, giving a limp-home capability. 04-up valve bodies incorporate a G solenoid which reduces the main line pressure by approximately 100psi during idle and low load operation, reducing heat generation. The F solenoid controls TCC apply and release. On 05-earlier models this is a PWM solenoid operating at 100Hz, while 06-up use a PPC solenoid operating at 1KHz.

    Shifting is contrilled by 3 normally closed solenoids, C,D, and E. These solenoids are strictly binary, applying either full line pressure or exhaust to it's associated spool valve. The logical combination of these 3 valves determines which clutches are applied. Contrary to what some believe, the solenoids do not directly operate the clutches. The spools and solenoids are arranged so that each shift change will exhaust the offgoing clutch via the solenoid B path while applying pressure to the oncoming clutch via the solenoid A pressure. Because of this, shifts must be sequential - the transmission will not skip gears when upshifting or downshifting. It also means that it is not possible to apply random sets of clutches, although it is possible that the unused solenoid combinations could create a non-valid clutch condition (i.e. C2 and C5 applied) which would create a lockup. There has been anecdotes of aftermarket controllers applying all 5 clutch packs while at speed, but I don't believe it is possible to apply more than 2 clutches with the arrangement of valving in the VB. That is not confirmed however...

    Here are the solenoid combos for the various gears:

    .............C...........D...........E
    Park......*............*...........*
    Rev.....................*...........*
    Neu......*............*............*
    1st.....................*.............
    2nd.................................. (If power is lost or TCM is inoperative, this is the limp mode gear)
    3rd.......*..........................
    4th.......*..........................*
    5th...................................*
    6th ???????????????????? (Don't have info for this....)

    The VB also contains a pressure switch assembly which gives feedback to the TCM on which solenoids are engaged. The PSA also houses the trans temp sensor, which is a negative temperature coefficient thermistor. All VB electricals are passed through the case using a standard GM 20 pin connector, identical to the one used on the late 4l60E's and 4L80E's. Looking at the connector in the trans, starting with the upper left and working left to right, top to bottom, the pins are labeled A-W, with the letters I, O, and Q not used. The pin assignments and color codes of the INTERNAL wiring harness for 5 speed models are as follows:

    A - Dk Green - Shift Solenoid C
    B - Orange/Black - Shift Solenoid D
    C - Pink - Power to shift solenoids C, D, and E
    D - Lt Green - PSA terminal A
    E - Red - PSA terminal C
    F - Blue - PSa terminal B
    G - Orange - PSA terminal E
    H - Black - PSA terminal F
    J - Brown - TCC solenoid F
    K - Tan - PSA terminal D
    L - Red/Black - Trim Solenoid A
    M - Lt Blue - Trim Solenoid A
    N - Gray - Trim Solenoid B
    P - Purple - Trim Solenoid B
    R - ????? - Line Pressure Solenoid G (04-up only)
    S - Black - TCC Solenoid F
    T - Tan - PSA terminal F
    U - Green - IC to terminal V
    V - Green - IC to terminal U
    W - Black/Tan - Shift Solenoid E

    For 6 speed models, the internal connections are as follows (no color codes - sorry:

    A - Shift solenoid C
    B - Shift solenoid D
    C - Shift solenoid E
    D - PSA terminal A
    E - PSA terminal C
    F - PSA terminal B
    G - PSA terminal E
    H - PSA terminal F, IMS terminal F
    J - TCC solenoid F
    K - PSA terminal D
    L - Trim solenoid A, TCC solenoid F, main pressure solenoid G
    M - Trim solenoid A
    N - Trim solenoid B, shift solenoids C, D, and E
    P - Trim solenoid B
    R - IMS terminal A
    S - Main pressure solenoid G
    T - IMS terminal E
    U - IMS terminal D
    V - IMS terminal C
    W - IMS terminal B

    Other electrical components include 3 (05-earlier GM apps) or 2 (06-up GM apps) variable reluctance speed sensors and an NSBU (Neutral Start back-Up) switch (05-earlier) or IMS (Internal Mode Switch - 06-up). The first speed sensor is in the bellhousing, and gets it's signal from the pump vane ribs in the converter housing. On 6 speed GM apps, the bellhousing speed sensor is deleted, and the TCM instead gets engine speed information from the ECM via the GMLAN bus. The second sensor is the turbine speed sensor in the main housing, and pics up off of either the PTO gear or a stamped steel tone ring that replaces the PTO gear in units without a PTO option. Finally, 2WD transmissions have an output speed sensor in the output housing that reads off of a 40 tooth tone ring on the output shaft. 4WD models use the speed sensor and 40 tooth tone ring in the transfer case tailhousing. 4WD models have a switch input to notify the TCM that 4Lo mode is engaged, and the TCM makes appropriate compensation for the TC low gear ratio.

    The NSBU switch on the 01-02 5 speeds is essentially identical to that used on the 4L60E's. There are 2 receptacles on the NSBU. The 4 pin gives the TCM information regarding the gear selected, while the 7 pin accesses switches used for P-N starter lockout and back-up lights. The 4 pin receptacle's pins are marked A, B, C, and D. Depending on the shift position selected, a combination of 2 of these pins will be grounded. Here's the table, with the grounded pins marked with an asterisk:

    .............A...........B...........C.........D
    P.........................*............*.......... ..
    R......................................*.......... *
    N..........*..........................*...........
    D..........*...................................... *
    3................................................. ..
    2........................*........................ *
    1..........*............*.........................

    Since only 2 terminals or no terminals (in the case of 3rd) are valid combinations, the TCM can sometimes determine if there is a wiring or switch malfunction. The standard wiring color codes and their connection to the TCM J2 connector for the 4 pin receptacle are as follows:

    A - Blue - pin 5
    B - Gray - pin 7
    C - White - pin 8
    D - Yellow - pin 6

    NOTE: On GM pickups, these wires go to the ECM, which then buffers and feeds them to the TCM. On stand-alone apps, they will be wired directly to the TCM. This is a helpful bit of info for those modding a GM pickup harness

    The 7 pin connector on the NSBU has pins labeled A-G, and their corresponding wire colors and assignments are as follows:

    A - Not used
    B - Tan - Park Accessory
    C - Blue - Rev/Park Accessory fuse
    D - Green - TCM analog ground (TCM J2 connector, pin 20)
    E - Yellow - Park/neutral start battery feed
    F - Pink - back-up lamps
    G - Orange - Starter relay

    03-05 models used a very similar NSBU switch assembly, except they have a single connector that contains all the pins, rather than 2 separate connectors.

    06-up 6 speed transmissions no longer use an external NSBU switch. The external switches were prone to failure caused by internal corrosion due to exposure to water. The park and reverse accessory and back up lamp switch functions were moved to the column. Park/neutral and gear selector position info on these transmissions is done with an internal mode switch (IMS) mounted on the rooster comb inside the transmission. Its functions are brought out through the 20 pin connector on the transmission (see above). The F pin on the IMS is common, and depending on position one or more of the remaining pins will be switched to the F pin. Pin A is connected to the ECM, and is used to notify it that the transmission is in either park or neutral, thus allowing the engine to be cranked. The final 4 (B-E) are connected directly to the TCM and tell it what range is selected, NOTE; On GM trucks, the PRNDL is labeled P-R-N-D-M-1, with only those 6 positions available via the column shifter. However, the transmission itself has 7 positions internally - the last position is simply not used in GM vehicles, and the travel is limited in the column shifter so a GM vehicle cannot physically shift into the last position. However, a DIY shifter setup WILL be able to shift into that last position unless it is likewise limited (i.e. using a 3 speed floor shifter rather than a 4 speed floor shifter).

    Note that these pin assignments are those of the switch itself, NOT the 20 pin external connector. Refer to the external pinout description above for the 6 speed to find the external pins connected to these internal pins.

    ............A............B............C........... .D............E
    P..........*.............*.............*.......... ...................
    R......................................*.......... ...*...............
    N.........*.............*......................... ..*...............
    D................................................. ....*.............*
    3........................*.............*.......... ...*.............*
    2......................................*.......... ..................*
    1........................*........................ ..................*

    Information continued in later posts.
    Last edited by MaxPF; 01-16-2011 at 02:19 AM. Reason: Added Information on 6 speed
    The Ride:
    91 K5 Blazer, P-pumped 12V, NV4500, 205, D61, 14BFF, 4.10's and rolling on 35's

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    oxman504 (09-05-2013)

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    Good idea. Continue and we'll see about making this a sticky....
    True self-esteem comes only from what your dog thinks of you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselSchlepper View Post
    Good idea. Continue and we'll see about making this a sticky....
    It's was already added to the transmission index sticky under "Allison"...

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    Max-----You've provided us with some very basic...........plus some in-depth details about one family of fine Allison products . Details that Allison may consider proprietary,and I say this as an ex Allison sales rep from the '70s and '80s when they were much more interested in regears . By comparison,Allison has been very secretive about releasing information about mating components and supporting parts as compared to the AT,MT and HT transmissions .In fact there were repower/regear manuals that gave Allison,engine manufacturer,and vendor part #s for things like oil coolers,external oil filters,shift controls,modulators,dipstick & tube ,output flanges ,flexplates,flywheels etc .Thanks for enlightening the potential users and releasing some of the "secrets" that are very difficult to get from Allison's dealer/distributer organization ! I have an Allison tech data CD I obtained to help a friend's MD 3060 conversion into an antique truck ,but was later told the info was confidential .

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    Great start!

    Here is a source for many parts that may be required for an allison conversion. http://howards-conversions-allison.com/index.php His prices seem reasonable... you might be able to do a little better if you shop around. He has the allison TCU listed that I believe can be used as a stand-alone controller for non-electronic engines. It may not be as "tunable" as an aftermarket stand-alone, but it's not $1500 either.

    Here is how to lookup specific information for a transmission given a valid serial number: http://www.allisontransmission.com/m...oninformation/ It will break down and decipher all the codes on the build tag, so you can verify how a particular transmission was actually configured (i.e. torque converter, etc.)

    Here's a good article on generational (and other) differences of the Allison torque converters for the 1000-2000 series: http://www.powertrainsavers.com/tech...CTIP-11-07.pdf
    Last edited by Octamog; 08-07-2010 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Added t.c. article

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    I dated a girl named Allison once. Planning on using one in a project someday.
    True self-esteem comes only from what your dog thinks of you.

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    There is (was?) a billet 4wd tailshaft housing available from Suncoast. I can no longer find it on their website, so it may no longer be available.

    Here are some pics I found on the web... I don't know anything about this particular application, but I think that's an Atlas (correct me if I'm wrong) mounted behind the Allison.









    Here are some pics of Stak behind an Allison. These were taken from High Angle Driveline's website who did the machine work to make this happen.




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    5 SPEED TCM (05-EARLIER)

    The TCM's for the 5 speeds are very different from the 6 speeds. I don't have any real info on the 6 speed controller, so I will focus on the 5 speed here. AFAIK, the controllers from 00-05 are all nearly identical. Care must be taken if you get your trans from an MD app, as 24 volt controllers do exist. The controller housing is aluminum with rubber isolating mounting feet, and is embossed "CAUTION Do Not Ground to Vehicle Chassis". This generation TCM has two 32-pin receptacles labeled RED (J2) and GRAY (J1), each with different indexing to prevent the wrong plug from being inserted. Looking at each TCM connector, the pins are numbered 1-16 on the top row and 17-32 on the bottom.

    J1 Gray Connector

    Pin..........Function............................. ...........Allison Color........GM Color................Connection

    1.............Vehicle Ground...........................Gray............. ..........Black/White...........Chassis
    2.............Key-On Power..............................Yellow......... ...........Pink.........................Fused Key-On Power
    3.............Continuous Power......................Pink................... .....Orange...................Fused Battery Power
    4.............Key-On Power..............................Yellow......... ...........Pink..........................Fused Key-On Power
    5.............Vehicle Ground..........................Gray.............. ..........Black/White...........Chassis
    6.............Input 1.........................................Blue.... ...................Yellow......................PTO Status (GM Specific)
    7.............Input 2.........................................Orange.. ................Purple......................Servic e Brake Switch (GM Specific - Notifies TCM that the service brakes are applied so the TCM can de-apply the TCC)
    8.............Input 3.........................................Green... .................N/A............................PTO Auto Neutral (Not Used On GM Light Trucks)
    9.............Input 4.........................................White... ..................White........................Unm anaged Torque (GM Specific - connects to ECM/PCM)
    10...........Input 5.........................................Yellow.. ..................Gray/Black...............Secondary Shift Schedule (GM Specific - Alerts TCM that 4Lo is engaged so corrections can be made for the t-cases gear reduction on the OSS signal)
    11...........Input 6.........................................Green... .................N/A............................Range Inhibit (MD Only)
    12...........Input 7.........................................Blue.... ...................N/A............................Retarder Enable (MD Only) (On Gm Vehicles, this is used as the switch input for the Overdrive Lockout Mod)
    13...........Input 8.........................................Pink.... ....................N/A............................ABS (MD Only)
    14...........Input 9.........................................Orange.. ................N/A............................N/A
    15...........Retarder............................. .........Yellow....................N/A............................Retarder Request (MD Only)
    16...........PWM Throttle..............................White....... .............Tan/Black.................Managed Torque Signal (GM Specific - Connects to PCM - L18 8.1L Gas Engine Application Only)
    17...........Retarder Sensor Power.............Pink.......................N/A.............................VSA (MD Only)
    18...........Analog Ground..........................Green............. .......N/A.............................N/A
    19...........Output 1......................................Tan........ ................N/A.............................N/A
    20...........Output 2......................................Orange..... ............N/A.............................N/A (On Gm vehicles with the ODLO mod, this is the ODLO enabled lamp output)
    21...........Output 3......................................White...... ..............N/A.............................Range Indicator (MD ONLY)
    22...........Output 4......................................Blue....... ...............Orange/Black............Managed Torque Request (GM Specific - Connects to PCM - L18 8.1L Gas Engine Application Only)
    23...........Output 5......................................Pink....... ................N/A..............................Range Inhibit Indicator (MD Only)
    24...........Output 6......................................White...... ..............N/A..............................N/A
    25..........."Check Trans" Output................Green...................Dk Blue.......................MIL Request (On GM Vehicles this is connected to the ECM/PCM)
    26...........Vehicle Speed Output...............Tan........................N/A..............................N/A
    27...........Vehicle Speed Output...............Pink.......................Ye llow..........................Replicated TOSS (Connects to ECM/PCM On GM Vehicles)
    28...........Digital Ground............................Yellow.......... .........N/A..............................N/A (May be used as a ground for J1850/ISO9141 link) (On Gm vehicles with the ODLO mod, one side of the ODLO momentary switch is wired to this terminal)
    29...........J1939 (CAN) High.......................Red.................... ...Yellow..........................J1939 Connector (Connects to common CANHI wire on Gm vehicles)
    30...........J1850/ISO9141 Data Link.........Blue......................Yellow..... .....................J1939 Connector (Connects to common J1850 bus on Gm vehicles)
    31...........J1939 (CAN) Shield....................Green................... N/A..............................J1939 Connector (not connected on GM vehicles)
    32...........J1939 (CAN) Low........................Black.................. ..Dk Green....................J1939 Connector (Connects to common CANLO wire on Gm vehicles)

    NOTE: The CAN hi and low wires MUST be run as a twisted pair, and covered with a braided or foil shield. Shield must be grounded or terminated to a CAN shield terminal at one end.

    J2 Red Connector

    Pin..........Function............................. ...........Allison Color........GM Color................Connection

    1.............PSA Input......................................Blue... ...................Pink.........................Tr ansmission Connector Pin D
    2.............PSA Input......................................Pink... ....................Dk Blue..................Transmission Connector Pin F
    3.............PSA Input......................................White.. ..................Red..........................Tra nsmission Connector Pin E
    4.............PSA Input......................................Green.. .................Lt Green/Black......Transmission Connector Pin K
    5.............Shift Selector Input.....................Blue.................... ..Black/White............NSBU Switch - 4 pin connector - Pin A
    6.............Shift Selector Input.....................Yellow.................. .Yellow......................NSBU Switch - 4 pin connector - Pin D
    7.............Shift Selector Input.....................Gray.................... ..Gray.........................NSBU Switch - 4 pin connector - Pin B
    8.............Shift Selector Input.....................White................... .White......................NSBU Switch - 4 pin connector - Pin C
    9.............TPS Input......................................Blue... ...................N/A..........................Throttle Position Sensor pin B (wiper pin)
    10...........Transmission Temp Input...........Tan.......................Yellow/Black...........Transmission Connector Pin G
    11...........Retarder Temp Input..................Orange................N/A...........................Retarder Temp Sensor (MD apps only)
    12...........Engine Coolant Temp Input......Blue......................N/A...........................ECT Sensor (Some MD apps - Not used on GM light trucks)
    13...........TSS Input, High...........................Orange............. ....Orange....................Turbine Speed Sensor pin A
    14...........TSS Input, Low.............................Blue.............. ........Lt Blue.....................Turbine Speed Sensor pin B
    15...........OSS Input, High...........................Yellow............. ......Purple/White...........Output Speed Sensor pin A
    16...........OSS Input, Low.............................Green............. .....Lt Green/Black.......Output Speed Sensor pin B
    17...........ESS Input, High............................Tan............... ........Red/Black...............Engine Speed Sensor pin A
    18...........ESS Input, Low.............................Orange............ ....Bk Blue/White........Engine Speed Sensor pin B
    19...........TPS Ref. Voltage...........................Pink............ ..........N/A..........................Throttle Position Sensor pin C (max throttle position)
    20...........Analog Ground............................Green........... ........Black......................Transmission Connector Pin H, NSBU Switch 7 pin connector pin D, Throttle Position Sensor pin A (idle position), ECT Sensor, Retarder Temp Sensor
    21...........Trans ID.........................................Yellow. ..................Purple....................Transm ission Connector Pin T
    22...........Solenoid A, High..........................Yellow.............. .....Lt Blue/White........Transmission Connector Pin L
    23...........Solenoid A, Low...........................White............... ....Red/Black..............Transmission Connector Pin M
    24...........Solenoid B, High..........................Pink................ ......Pink/Black..............Transmission Connector Pin N
    25...........Solenoid B, Low...........................Orange.............. ..Brown/White..........Transmission Connector Pin P
    26...........Solenoid C Output.......................Green................ ..Lt Green.................Transmission Connector Pin A
    27...........Solenoid D Output.......................Blue................. ....Yellow/Black...........Transmission Connector Pin B
    28...........Solenoid E Output.......................Gray................. ....Orange/White.........Transmission Connector Pin W
    29...........Solenoid F, Low............................White.............. ....Brown......................Transmission Connector Pin J
    30...........Solenoid G, Low...........................Orange.............. ..Dk Blue....................Transmission Connector Pin R (04-up only)
    31...........Solenoid C, D, E V+ Supply........Tan.......................Brown..... .................Transmission Connector Pin C
    32...........Solenoid F, High..........................Green............... ...Dk Green/White......Transmission Connector Pin S
    Last edited by MaxPF; 01-16-2011 at 02:13 AM.
    The Ride:
    91 K5 Blazer, P-pumped 12V, NV4500, 205, D61, 14BFF, 4.10's and rolling on 35's

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    First post here- It's good to see this thread! I've installed a 2006 HPCR and an Allison 1000 5 speed (year 2000) into my 2000 Ford Excursion and as of right now, I'm a day or two short of having it all running (I hope). Something that would be a huge help to anyone doing an Allison install would be to list EXACTLY what wire have to be hooked up to make the controller work. There's a bunch of gray plug wires that have to be connected. There is also a need for an LED and rheostat to adjust "harshness" iirc. I still have to figure all of that out. My biggest problem is getting everything written out and then not having enough time to work on it to finish it (I live and work on opposite coasts). By the time I start on it again, I can't remember the details of what my notes meant. Hopefully, this thread will help others avoid that problem.
    I do have the suncoast adapter and it is huge. I had them drill it to adapt the stock transfer case, and I had to have a reluctor wheel installed in the transfer case along with a port for the sensor.
    Anyways, this thread is off to a good start! Congratulations!
    clam

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    Quote Originally Posted by clam View Post
    First post here- It's good to see this thread! I've installed a 2006 HPCR and an Allison 1000 5 speed (year 2000) into my 2000 Ford Excursion and as of right now, I'm a day or two short of having it all running (I hope). Something that would be a huge help to anyone doing an Allison install would be to list EXACTLY what wire have to be hooked up to make the controller work. There's a bunch of gray plug wires that have to be connected. There is also a need for an LED and rheostat to adjust "harshness" iirc.
    There is no such thing on a regular Allison TCM setup. There is a TPS potentiometer, but it connects to the red connector - assuming you aren't feeding throttle inputs via the CAN bus. The only wires on the gray connector that absolutely must be connected are the power and ground wires. The rest are app specific, but the trans will work without them connected.

    I still have to figure all of that out. My biggest problem is getting everything written out and then not having enough time to work on it to finish it (I live and work on opposite coasts). By the time I start on it again, I can't remember the details of what my notes meant. Hopefully, this thread will help others avoid that problem.
    I do have the suncoast adapter and it is huge. I had them drill it to adapt the stock transfer case, and I had to have a reluctor wheel installed in the transfer case along with a port for the sensor.
    Anyways, this thread is off to a good start! Congratulations!
    clam
    the SunCoast adapter isn't really an adapter. It is simply a billet replacement for the rear housing on the Allison. I assume they made this to deal with the breakage issues that some folks have encountered. FWIW, the later Allison housings have more ribbing on them, and even the early ones will be fine if some extra support bracing is added. It is mainly either high torque and/or drivelive vibes that causes cracking. Added support struts and such will prevent that with the stock housing. I think the factory GM support for the rear housing is simply inadequate...
    The Ride:
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    I just found my notes that I got from the local Allison guru last year. Keep in mind that my Cummins does NOT have a TPS. That is why I have to use the Analog Interface (pin 15 on the J1 Gray connector). Feel free to edit, rewrite, delete, etc, as applicable. also note: I have NO idea if any or all of this is correct, so you are on your own and I will not be held liable for this information. It is only posted for the sake of discussion and is not to be construed as advice or instructions in ANY way.
    1) Need range inhibit indicator at gray plug pin #23.
    2) remove gry/blk wire from pin #10. Unprogrammed input (input function #5).
    3) Remove purple "input function #2" from pin #7.
    4) Hook up "ignition power" via a 10 amp fuse to pink pin #4.
    5) Hook up "battery power" via a 10 amp fuse to orange pin #3.
    6) Hook up "TCM Ground to Battery" blk/wt pins 1 & 5.
    7) Cap "diagnostic tool/engine interface" yellow pin 30. (see #8 below).
    8) Cap pins 29 and 32. Dodge doesn't have SAE J-1939 BUT I might need SAE std 9 pin diagnostic connector.
    9) Add "analog interface" at pin #15. (5k ohm 1/2 or 1 watt potentiometer) Use 18 gauge 3 wire shielded outdoor wire OR "NAPA Triplex Jacketed Cable or Wire 12 AWG." Goes to dash. OR pull a voltage signal off the APPS gtht is 2.5v at idle to 4.5 volts at WOT.

    --->ground
    (pot)---2.5 - 4.5 volts
    ---5 volts

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    I'm unclear on the purpose of connecting a pot to the retarder input. Can you elaborate on what this is supposed to do?
    The Ride:
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    My recollection from a year ago when I was standing in the Allison shop staring at their wired up training board and talking to the wizard who knew Allisons inside and out from memory, was that he said it is for manually adjusting the harshness of the lockup because the Cummins ECM cannot talk to the Allison TCM and therefore cannot do it automatically (digitally). Looking at my notes that I typed out verbatim, it appears that I might be able to do exactly what the pot does by pulling the voltage off the APPS and feeding it to the same analog input on the TCM. I'm sorry that I cannot say with absolute certainty that that is what it's for, but I do remember seeing it on the training board and I did specifically ask about it.

    I'm about 1 hour short of starting this danged thing after 3 years of assembly and installation in my spare time, and I'm frustrated because I can't figure out the NSBU switch wiring or how to turn on my Bosch racing fuel pumps- and I have to fly cross country in 11 hours. Grrrrrr.

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    Ok, Stupid question: Can you convert a 2wd transmission to a 4x4 by swapping in a 4x4 output? From the pictures it looks like you can, but I could not tell from what was written; maybe I am just too tired. . .

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    Yes, you can convert a 2wd to a 4wd, but you need the output shaft and the output housing.
    The Ride:
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    Hi there guys. I'm hoping that someone on here is going to be able to help me out big time. I am currently a project engineer for an engineering consultancy working on military prototypes. The vehicles we are currently working on use a 2500SP transmission but packaging restraints mean access to the trans. oil filter would be very difficult in the field. We have asked our local Allison distributor here in the UK to look into a remote filter kit but they have only returned with a kit that fits in the cooler lines as extra protection rather than replacing the existing filter. I am told that the transmission relies on the back pressue from the filter to operate correctly and the removal of the exisitng filter and additional pipework etc. related with a remote kit would affect this and invalidate warranty aswell as prevent the trans. from operating correctly.

    Is there any chance anyone on here is aware of an existing off the shelf remote mount kit, the issues mentioned, or perhaps even personal experiences that don't take into consideration the transmission warranty. Any advice will be a massive help to me.

    cheers,

    Elliott

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    The screw on oil filter only filters the oil going to the valve body, so it is relatively low flow. I dont see any issues from mounting a remote unit.

    I'm assuming you are using an Allison with an SAE housing? If so, most have a removeable rectangular cast piece that contains the filter mounting pad. The reason it is removable is that it is designed to be replaced with a piece that accommodates a remote filter setup.
    The Ride:
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxPF View Post
    The screw on oil filter only filters the oil going to the valve body, so it is relatively low flow. I dont see any issues from mounting a remote unit.

    I'm assuming you are using an Allison with an SAE housing? If so, most have a removeable rectangular cast piece that contains the filter mounting pad. The reason it is removable is that it is designed to be replaced with a piece that accommodates a remote filter setup.
    Our drawing lists SAE No. 3 (1 piece) converter housing. I see on the transmission the removeable cast piece containing the filter mount. Can you shed some ligh on whether the piece accomodating a remote filter setup is an Allison part or aftermarket and also some details over it. Also, any views on this story of the effect of altering backpressure on how the valve body operates??

    Thanks for the info so far. Very useful to know.

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    I don't know if Allison offers a mount with a pair of ports rather than a filter boss. Any machine shop could make one though. The pressure regulation is internal to the VB, and flow is low, so there should be no problem with pressure drop. it should work fine.
    The Ride:
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    I am swapping a 3.9 ISB w/Allison 1000 into Dodge M37. The information here is excellent! I would like to bolt a NP205 directly to the ally and don't have the tcase yet. Should I be looking for the short or long input on the 205? I have a friend who will make me a new output shaft for the trans. Thanks in advance, any help is greatly appreciated!

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    In order to bolt a 205 directly to the Allison you will need a round pattern 205. If you need a passenger drop case, you will need the 86-up Chevy 205. For a driver drop case, you will need a Ford 205. The pattern on the Ford 205 will not match the Allison, so you will need to drill the proper pattern in the face. Neither will have the correct input shaft - the Chevy round 205 has a long 32 spline input and the Ford case has a 31 spline input. Ineither case you will need to swap in the short 32 spline Chevy input. Alternatively, if you are using the Chevy case you could use a spacer ring between the trans and case to let you use the long input. In the case of the Ford case, you could make the output shaft 31 spline to match the Ford input. Lots of options when you're DIY.

    Note that in aany case you will need to notch the Allison's output flange in the appropriate spot to clear the shift rail on the 205. No biggie.
    The Ride:
    91 K5 Blazer, P-pumped 12V, NV4500, 205, D61, 14BFF, 4.10's and rolling on 35's

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    The build date on the Allison 2wd I have is 04. Does anyone know if a 4wd tail housing from an 09 or later will bolt up without any problems? Thanks!

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    It should. But I can't absolutely guarantee it. If it does, let us know
    The Ride:
    91 K5 Blazer, P-pumped 12V, NV4500, 205, D61, 14BFF, 4.10's and rolling on 35's

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    EXTERNAL MECHANICAL AND TRANSFER CASE ADAPTATION

    The 1000/2000/2400 series are available in numerous different configurations. There are four different bellhousing configurations, three different output configurations, and two available pans. In addition, there are four different OE torque converters. It is possible there are other configurations besides the ones I will list here.

    The four different bellhousing configurations are as follows: SAE #2 with bolt-on manifold for filter and cooler ports, SAE #3 with bolt-on manifold for filter and cooler ports, SAE #3 with integral filter boss and cooler ports, and Corporate GM pattern (SAE #8) with integral filter boss and cooler ports. The nice thing about these different bellhousings is that all of them are adaptable to the Cummins with OE or aftermarket adapters. SAE #2 is the largest, and won't fit in most pickup chassis, but if you already have it and it will fit, all you need is to find an SAE #2 Allison. SAE #3 Allisons seem much more common, and since the adapters for the B series aren't too hard to come by and it will fit in many more chassis, it's a good bet for many Cummins swappers. Finally, the Corp. GM pattern (SAE #8, aka small block/big block Chevy) Allisons are available at any wrecking yard that deals with late model vehicles, and they are commonly found on Craigslist and other local advertiser boards as well. The good thing about this bellhousing pattern is that they are readily available and will fit in smaller trans tunnels vs. even the SAE #3. The bad thing is that the only OE adapter is the bread truck jobbie with a 20 tilt (the tilt is actually for starter clearance, not engine-chassis clearance) and the troublesome wave ring. Aftermarket adapters are available, but they're pricey. OTOH, you can sometimes pick these up cheap enough to offset the cost of the aftermarket adapter.

    Torque converters are identical regardless of the bellhousing pattern. The torque converter used in this series Allison has 6 threaded mounting pad and a center pilot boss. The mounting pad bolt circle diameter, pilot boss diameter, and relative depth between the pilot, mounting pads, and TC face are identical to the TH400, 4L80E, and AT500 series converters. In other words, if you have a Chevy pattern engine with one of those transmissions bolted to it, you could bolt an Allison in place of it and the torque converter will bolt right up to your flexplate and be piloted properly. Note however that, while the 4L80E converter is a lockup unit like the Allison, it is not interchangeable. The Allison 1000/2000/2400 series have a larger hub, stator shaft, and input shaft compared to the 4L80E (which is itself larger than the TH400 and AT500 series).

    There are 4 different factory torque converters available. They are rated by their stall torque ratio, and each has a different color code on it's barcode label:

    Converter.........Stall torque........Bar code tag color

    TC-210..................2.05..................Orange (used in GM 8.1L gas applications)
    TC-211..................2.00..................Green (Used in GM Duramax pickup applications)
    TC-221..................1.73..................Black
    TC-222..................1.58..................White

    The three different outputs are as follows: 2WD fixed yoke, 2WD fixed yoke with drum brake (normally only found on 2000 series which have no parking pawl), and 4WD. Each of the 3 have a different rear housing on the transmission. The standard 2WD fixed yoke extension housing has no flange, while the 2WD with a drum brake has a 4 bolt flange to mount the brake shoe assembly. The flanged 2WD housing is otherwise identical to the non-flanged housing as far as output seal and bearing, so a drum brake unit could be converted to a regular fixed yoke by simply removing the brake components and installing the yoke of your choice. In either case, the output shaft is retained against the output bearing by the yoke, which is attached to the shaft by a bolt threaded into the end. Since different yokes or flanges can be bolted to the 2WD output shaft and mating components for each are available for driveshafts, adapting a 2WD Ally to your driveshaft should present no special problems.

    The 4WD housing has a round 6 bolt pattern with the ID machined to locate the transfer case by its bearing retainer. Both the bolt pattern and the ID for locating the transfer case are identical to earlier GM driver drop extension housings. In other words, it is a standard round GM pattern, used since the 80's. The output shaft itself is 1.475" OD 29 spline, which is identical to the 29 spline output shaft used on the Dodge Getrag and NV4500HD. The shaft sticks out a short distance (1/4" or so) past the flange, and is retained by a hex or spanner nut which is tightened against the output bearing. This output shaft is the major stumbling block to adapting different transfer cases. The only cases that will directly bolt up are the NV261SHD and the NV263XHD which were used by GM in their pickups. The rare NP205 used by Dodge behind the Getrag has the right spline count, but because of the length of the input shaft (male 29 spline input with a coupler sleeve) an adapter/spacer is required. Dodge also used a 29 spline NP241 behind the NV4500HD, but I do not know whether the input length and bolt pattern are compatible.

    I figure 4WD swappers are going to fall into one of two categories: those who can and will use the 261SHD or 263XHD cases, and those who can't or wont. The former group has it easy - bolt it on and go. For the latter group, there are several reasons why they can't use the factory cases. One obvious reason is if they need a passenger drop case - the factory cases or drivers drop. For those who need a DD case, they may want a gear drive case (the factory cases aren't weak, but 205's and Atlases are stronger, and the factory cases had issues) or may want to run a crawler box setup of some sort. Of course, some folks who need a PD case also fit in the latter categories. Below is a list of common t-cases and ways to adapt them. This list is sure to be incomplete, so if you know of others please feel free to post up in this thread. Also, this is intended for the folks who obviously don't have the vehicle length available for a divorced setup or simply don't want to use one, since a divorced t-case renders this discussion moot

    Atlas - If you have money burning a hole in your pocket and your rig isn't super heavy (the Atlas' gears are about the same size as a D300, maybe a tad bigger), then this is the way to go. While I have seen cases and internals broken by extreme rock crawlers doing extreme things, usually the (easily replaceable) 32 spline output shaft is the weak link... assuming you don't break a driveshaft, a diff component, or an axle first. If the output shaft is a worry, Advance Adapters offers an upgraded shaft made from 300M. Anyway, the nice thing about this case is that AA offers it with a 29 spline input in both 2sp and 4sp configurations. AA says in their literature that a certain rotation (clocking) option is needed for the Allison, so it would be a good idea to contact AA and question them before ordering a new case or buying a used one. Input shafts are swappable in the Atlas cases, so if you find a good deal on a used case with a different input it may be worthwhile, provided AA says it will mate to the Allison OK with nothing other than changing the input.

    Also, if using a 2sp Atlas you will need the VSS tailhousing which is an available option from AA, and the TCM will need a 4Lo input and will need to have the proper calibration for your 4Lo gear ratio (I'll address this under "TCM calibration"). 4sp Atlas users, as well as others using a doubler/crawl box setup, will need to do something creative since the Allison TCM can't accommodate multiple low ranges. I will discuss this at the end of this section.

    NP205 - Here you have a couple options, none of which are cheap unless you or a buddy has a machine shop. First off, Dodge did use a rare 29 spline passenger drop 205 behind the Getrag in the first gen Cummins trucks. These cases had a MALE 29 spline shaft which is coupled to the trans output shaft with a splined sleeve. The case used the figure 8 pattern on the face, which combined with the long input/sleeve setup requires a custom adapter/spacer to mount to the transmission. Here's what the Dodge case looks like:



    Alternatively, if you want a drivers drop 205 and/or a round pattern case, you can buy the 29 spline input gear and sleeve and install in whatever case you choose to use. NOTE: The 29 spline shaft uses the large input bearing and retainer. If the case you are retrofitting has a small input and retainer (i.e. 23 spline Dodge/Jeep, 27 spline GM, 10 spline GM, etc.) you will need to have the case bored out to accept the large bearing and obtain a large bearing retainer.

    The second method is to utilize the 29 to 31 spline stub shaft made by Advance Adapters, which will mate the Allison output shaft to a 31 spline Ford 205. The Ford 205 is a drivers drop unit, but like the Dodge input the Ford input can be retrofitted into any other 205 case. As with the Dodge input, the 31 spline Ford input uses a large input bearing, so a small bearing case will have to be bored for the large bearing and a large bearing retainer used. Here are some pics of a DD Ford 205 adapted to an Allison. The two aluminum adapters are AA parts, and some machining of the adapters as well as redrilling the 205 face was required:









    Here's the link to the thread on Pirate: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8112495

    A couple things to note: First off, he originally mounted the VSS to the output shaft, but then changed it to the trans output/t-case input. The reason appears to be because he did not know how or if he could change the TCM cal to work with the 205's. This is easily doable, and I will talk about it under "TCM calibration". The second thing is that one of the shift fork rods appears to interfere with the adapter setup. This interference is actually pretty common with a lot of non-stock 205 setups, and can be addressed in one of several ways. If there is no way to clearance the adapters or otherwise attach a shifter to the inboard rod, you can mod the case to accept a seal on the back side and have the rod exit the back of the case. Some machining required, of course

    Finally, there is one last method of installing a round pattern 205 directly onto the back of an Allison. It is actually simple and straightforward (as long as you have a machine shop at your disposal): build a new output shaft for the Allison, or respline the 29 spline shaft. It's really not as bad as it sounds, since the Allison output shaft is a fairly simple part.

    EDIT: I removed references to resplining the 205 input gear. The reason is that further inspection revealed that the area beneath the snap ring groove would be reduced to .170" wall, which is too thin to ensure durability. Of course, if some intrepid swapper tries it, please let us know how it works!

    NP241 - This case has been around since the late 80's and has been made in both DD and PD configurations. They are quite strong, with a maximum torque rating of 5555lb-ft. For comparison, the NV261SHD is rated at 5677lb-ft and the NV271 rates 7890lb-ft. The DD Dodge NP241DHD used behind the Cummins/NV4500 combo has more splines on the mainshaft and the range coupler as well as a wider chain (1.500" vs 1.250") for added durability. Some parts, such as the chain and its sprockets, can be retrofitted to the standard case. The continuous torque rating is increased for this version (1400lb-ft vs 1028lb-ft) but the max rating is the same as the standard 241. The 241 has a big advantage over the 261SHD and 263XHD in that the aftermarket has slip yoke eliminator kits available, which is very desirable for those with lifted vehicles.

    The DD Dodge HD 241 has a 29 spline input, but the clocking is 90 off vs the Allison, so it isn't a bolt up. Since the OE 261's and 263's aren't hard to find I can't see putting any effort into swapping this case onto the Allison. The Chevy 241's, both DD and PD, have bolt patterns that match the Allison, and would bolt up with a 29 spline input input shaft. AFAIK, the DHD 29 spline input is not swappable into the GM case due to design differences between the standard and HD 241's.

    Of course, as with the 205, a 32 spline output shaft for the Allison would make the GM case a bolt-up affair.

    NP208, NP231, D300, D20, AND OTHER LOW TORQUE RATING CASES - These cases have been known to get spit out behind gas engines. While they may hold up behind a 4BT or a stock 6BT in a lighter vehicle, I don't think they are worth spending the time or money on when stronger cases can be adapted for the same or less money. Besides, who is going to be using an Allison in a light vehicle? Well, I probably would

    203/205 DOUBLER - This is the king of stupid strong when it comes to crawler boxes. The gears and coupler splines in the 203 range box are big and beefy, just like the 205. The only weak link will be the 205 output shaft, assuming the 4x multiplication of the transmissions output torque doesn't destroy a driveshaft, R&P, carrier, or axle first. Anyway, mounting a 203/205 doubler to the Allison is completely doable with a bit of machine work. You have 2 basic options for adapting the 203 range box to the Allison:

    Option #1 - Use the Ford 31 spline input gear in the 203 box, and couple it to the 29 spline Ally output with the AA 29 to 31 spline stub shaft. Then make a spacer/adapter to bolt the 203 box to the Allison.

    Option #2 - As with the 205, you could build a 32 spline output shaft for the Allison or respline the stock shaft. The bearing retainer pilots right into the Ally tail housing, and the face of the range box can be redrilled for the 6 hole mounting pattern. Drilling and tapping the 6 hole pattern in the 203 RB face is commonly done by rock crawler guys when mounting these to round pattern NV4500's, SM465's, TH400's, 4L80E's, and other transmissions, so this would be nothing new. Resplining the stock shaft is the path I chose for putting a 203-205 setup behind my 6 speed Ally. Here's the shaft resplined to fit a 32 spline GM 203 input:



    In order to do remove the original splines the previously splined portion of the shaft has to be turned down to 1.350". Since the major diameter for a 32 spline shaft is 1.375", it ends up being slightly undersize. You lose .0125" off of the addendum of each tooth, but since side fit involute splines contact on the pitch diameter, which is halfway between the top and bottom of the tooth, the slight loss of addendum has little practical impact. The fact that the shaft is through hardenable (the alloy is 4140 or some other very similar alloy steel), and can be brought from it's stock value of 28HRC up to 40HRC with suitable heat treatment, means the strength of both the shaft and splines can be increased by around 40% and the splines will be quite wear resistant.

    WARNING!!! Allison rear housings have been known to break in stock applications. Usually, the culprit is a bad u-joint that causes a lot of vibration, sled pulling with bombed engines, or abuse. Still, hanging a couple hundred pounds of t-case off the back of the trans without extra support and bracing would be a Bad Idea. Even a lone 205, Atlas, or Stak needs extra support. Personally, I wouldn't put ANY case on there, not even the stock 261 or 263, without extra support to take the load off the trans tailhousing. But that's just me. All the usual disclaimers apply: YMMV, Void Where Prohibited, No Deposit, No Return, etc.
    Last edited by MaxPF; 08-08-2011 at 11:03 PM.
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    Another option for a tcase is to use an NP271 or an NP273 case out of a Dodge or a Ford truck. If using the Dodge case you just need to make sure you have the 29 spline input - if using the Ford case you will have to swap the 29 spline input into the Ford case. The bolt pattern is not exact - but only requires on hole on the Allison to be slotted to fit. I used a Dodge case for mock up in my 79 project truck - and that case is now living behind an Allison/Dmax combo installed into a Ford pulling truck. I'm going to be using a Ford case because I like the flange mount joints better than slip yolks. You still need to take care of a a speed signal but you will have the strongest OEM case available.
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    Ha Ha! Our UK Allison Transmission Dealer had a field day when I started throwing this idea around!!! It was enought o make him jump in his car and drive straight up to our shop the following day and insist that it was just not an option to do this!! for the time being we have bought an off the shelf supplementary filter kit that plumbs into the cooler lines and allows us to stretch our filter change hours to such a level it becomes almost insignificant for a military vehicle!!

    Another query I'd love to see some views and experiences on from some of you guys with such experience with the allison trans. We currently use a pretty average air/oil cooler but due to the constraints with an armoured vehicle and the significant risk this cooler can be put under I have thought about burying a Laminova type cooler in the bowels of our vehicles heavily armoured chassis. Anyone made use of a Laminova cooler on an Allison trans. and have any siginificant benefits or problems?? Allison also don't appear to go into any great depth with regards to heat rejection values they would expect to see or at least not in any literature we have been given. Anyone have any info on this? And please forgive my severe lack of knowledge regarding the Allison Trans. We are after all, predominantly a team of Motorsport engineers who, after a very long tale find ourselves developing armoured vehicles!!! It is a steep learning curve indeed!!!

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    Billy Boy-----Oh Where Have You Been ? Allison has been so damn secretive about the electronic transmission family ,that I had received a CD from the distributer that I worked for 25 years ago ,then later was asked not to share it with anybody ................was trying to help an acquaintance on transferring an MD 3060 from a '99 Freightliner to a '50 GMC.
    They just don't seem interested in any aftermarket installations . Totally different than the previous mechanical aluminum case transmissions from '72-through mid-late '90s . I have repower manuals where they offer all kinds of installation guidelines and also the parts that could be sourced through Allison or direct from the manufacturer. IE: Spicer flanges,coolers,speedometer gears .
    But for your question on cooler BTU requirements ,wouldn't data from the AT 545/MT 643-653 be applicable ? I think I would have that in either the repower/regear book or the rest of the tech data I have . I'm very surprised Allison doesn't support a potential OEM ,maybe they think you're a subversive !

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    Quote Originally Posted by junkmandan View Post
    Billy Boy-----Oh Where Have You Been ? Allison has been so damn secretive about the electronic transmission family ,that I had received a CD from the distributer that I worked for 25 years ago ,then later was asked not to share it with anybody ................was trying to help an acquaintance on transferring an MD 3060 from a '99 Freightliner to a '50 GMC.
    They just don't seem interested in any aftermarket installations . Totally different than the previous mechanical aluminum case transmissions from '72-through mid-late '90s . I have repower manuals where they offer all kinds of installation guidelines and also the parts that could be sourced through Allison or direct from the manufacturer. IE: Spicer flanges,coolers,speedometer gears .
    But for your question on cooler BTU requirements ,wouldn't data from the AT 545/MT 643-653 be applicable ? I think I would have that in either the repower/regear book or the rest of the tech data I have . I'm very surprised Allison doesn't support a potential OEM ,maybe they think you're a subversive !
    It seems politics tends to overtake engineering when it comes to our Allison distributor, and unfortunately we do have to deal through our UK distributor. Not entirely sure why they are so unhelpful, although to be fair, my manager, technical director of the company can be very hard work!!!
    If you have any remotely useable btu requirements that can be useful as a baseline it will help! Ive got dyno's and hot chambers available to me easily enough I just want to buy a cooler thats gonna be in the right ballpark to start with rather than shooting blind. My experience with Allison, or at least our UK distributor is that if something is not the norm from their experience they consider it wrong and not suitable for the job. Unfortunately, my application poses challenges and I need to find solutions with or without their assistance.

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    I have 2 Ally's one 01 and 1 06 the 06 has a much stouter output housing and the double overdrive so I would like to swap it into my 06 dodge 2500 in place of the G56 Mercedes I'm just waiting on a standalone controller to come out anybody have any idea how it would work in the 06 and up Allison with the new tcm? Can I just swap control valves from the six speed 06 to the 5 speed with the programable tcm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post
    I have 2 Ally's one 01 and 1 06 the 06 has a much stouter output housing and the double overdrive so I would like to swap it into my 06 dodge 2500 in place of the G56 Mercedes I'm just waiting on a standalone controller to come out anybody have any idea how it would work in the 06 and up Allison with the new tcm? Can I just swap control valves from the six speed 06 to the 5 speed with the programable tcm?
    When you say "programmable TCM", are you referring to the 05-down TCM, or to Destroked's overpriced setup?

    Anyway, you already know that the 5 speed controller can be made to work (one way or the other), so to answer your second question, the answer is YES: you can swap the 5 speed valve body to the 6 speed trans. You also have to swap the internal harness, the shift selector shaft, and the external NSBU switch. It's been done plenty of times by guys that want to take advantage of the 6 speed's upgraded internals. Also, just to throw this out there, you can also put the 6 speed's stronger tailhousing on the 5 speed. Still, between the two choices, swapping the 5 speed VB and related parts to the 6 speed is better, since as I mentioned the 6 speed has better internals.

    Finally, there is one standalone solution for running the 6 speed TCM - I am the one who devised it, and it will be for sale soon . For that matter, it may be possible to run the 6 speed TCM with your Cummins ECM, but in order to test that theory out I would need your truck here Anyway, I have never messed with Dodge's throttle control setup, but if it is similar to GM's (i.e., potentiometer with a reference voltage of 5V or less) then making the stand alone setup work should be easy.

    Finally, there is the issue of marrying the Allison to the Cummins. The expensive way is Destroked's adapter (seems to be a trend with Destroked ). The less expensive way is to go SAE #3 like Howards does. That is the route I took, but I am making billet adapters rather than cast pieces. Matter of fact, here's what they will look like:







    All that is needed on the Allison is to swap to an SAE #3 bellhousing. In order to run an 06-up standalone a bellhousing swap is mandatory anyway, since the 06-up Chevy bells don't have provisions for an input speed sensor (TCMs in 06-up Chevy apps get engine RPM from the ECM), so thats not really a drawback. Also, the SAE #3 setup is shorter than the Destroked/Chevy bell setup, and you reuse your existing starter and Dodge adapter. Note that an OE Cummins SAE #3 adapter will NOT fit in your trans tunnel - it's too long. The Dodge to SAE 3 adapter ring only increases length by 1 inch, making it much more compact.
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