P-pump conversion
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Thread: P-pump conversion

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    Default P-pump conversion

    what's involved?

    I read on the 1st gen dodges you need to replace the whole timing case. Kinda seems it would be easier to just grab an originally p-pumped engine if that were true.

    Anyone got any good info on this?

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    last pump i found NOT on an engine was 1100. i was told it would be another 1000 or so for parts to finish. and that was from the guy with the pump. i quit looking after that
    1942 wc-53
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    everything is special for the p-pump. very costly alot to change. even the cam is different. dont sell the ve pump short it will do a great job for humdreds of thousands of miles literally. i have both types and the ve will do the same job.
    bob in tn.

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    After looking at the part numbers for the timing set, I only see that the cam is different from the naturally aspirated 4b to the turbo and turbo/aftercooled models. The crankshaft gear and cam gear are the same for the ve and p pump models. The gear for the p pump is different than the ve pump. I think all you need is a p pump with gear. Obviously the injector lines and injectors are different as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bcowanwheels@aol.com View Post
    everything is special for the p-pump. very costly alot to change. even the cam is different. dont sell the ve pump short it will do a great job for humdreds of thousands of miles literally. i have both types and the ve will do the same job.
    bob in tn.
    For longitivty yes but I thought the reason for the upgrade to the p-pump was the ve couldn't hold as well when pushing the engine for performance... Please correct me if I'm lost.

    -TJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjf0288 View Post
    For longitivty yes but I thought the reason for the upgrade to the p-pump was the ve couldn't hold as well when pushing the engine for performance... Please correct me if I'm lost.

    -TJ
    What's the limit for reliability in the rotary pump?

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    Rotary pumps die when you can't give them enough fuel for lubricity. P-pumps are oiled with engine oil.

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    like i said everything is special for a p-pump engine, cam, cam gear, timming cover, fuel pump, pump supports, fuel lines, lift pump, big $$$$$$$$ to change it correctly. the difference between the two pumps mainly is the p-pump has 4 pistons inside to pump fuel to there respective cylinders, the ve pump has a central ( common ) pump with fuel distributed in a rotary vane manner. when you try to max out the fuel system in a ve pump after you reach a certain point the idle will go up also. it gets to where the rotary vane cant control the fuel delivery properly . dont worry though the ve pump will supply enough fuel to do a real good job burnning the pistons litterally out of your engine. YOUR ALOT BETTER OFF STICKING TO A CPL ENGINE CODE
    IMO.
    BOB

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    there was never a p-pump on the 4bt. not that it is really relevant but the inline on the 4b is an "a" not a p pump. not being a smart ass. just thought i would let you know. and besides reliabilitly it is capeable of a lot more than a ve if you are going all out. you can get a ve to push alot of fuel with the right mods. until you get extreme it is hard to justify the cost of the swap. I have seen a ve in a 6b make 500hp, just takes a little know how.
    99 dodge 24v 3500 auto
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendricks View Post
    there was never a p-pump on the 4bt. not that it is really relevant but the inline on the 4b is an "a" not a p pump. not being a smart ass. just thought i would let you know. and besides reliability it is capable of a lot more than a ve if you are going all out. you can get a ve to push alot of fuel with the right mods. until you get extreme it is hard to justify the cost of the swap. I have seen a ve in a 6b make 500hp, just takes a little know how.
    well just to let you know i have a p-7100 pumped 4bt all stock 130hp cpl#1839.
    it is just like the one on eBay item #160089417899
    i also have 2 "a" pumped 4bts also
    82' dodge Q-cab shortbox 4x4 w/96' 6bta, holset vg, ported and polished 24-valve head, 300hp injectors #10 fuel plate, nv4500, np-241, dyna-trac 60 front, dana 80 rear, disks all around, lifted 6"

    56' chevy (work in progess) isb170, allison 6spd, np-241, 99' chevy 4x4 ifs front end, 14 bolt rear, dropped to the floor

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    The a pumps have 4 bolts on the timing cover and the VE has three. So you need to swap timing covers regardless even if you were to use the VE cam etc.. I am with Bob on this, not worth the effort IMO when a VE pump can/will work fine, I think.. For a race car though maybe the inline is better. Lou Chou one of the original swappers had a inline pump on his 4BT, and there is a FJ55 rock crawler out there called "big stinky" that hte owner had something like $10G into with an inline pump that was all juiced up and loud as all hell, much more so than stock because of the fuel levels at idle. Pretty sure the 7100 pumped inlines use the same torque plate etc as the '94 and on 12 valve dodges..

    I also have a inline 4BT A pump lying around. We were considering swapping into a truck regardless to see how it does. Supposedly the throttle response mechanism of the a pumps can be detuned to give a more typically automotive feel, I have been told..
    1991 Toyota Pickup, Mercedes 300D OM617 diesel
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    4bta did come with the P-7100 injection pump,I have one in my shop.
    They use the same Gov springs,fuel plate,injectors as the 12v 94-98.

    CrewCab59

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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead View Post
    The a pumps have 4 bolts on the timing cover and the VE has three.
    It's not possible to redrill and tap or make up an adaptor plate?

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    I stand corrected. I had never seen one and just assumed everyone was calling it a p pump...You know what assume breaks down to. Slowly removing foot from mouth.
    99 dodge 24v 3500 auto
    01 dodge 24v 2500 6 speed
    2@93 dodge 12v
    1 4bt without a home

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    Yeah I just got through drooling over one. P7100 pump with air to water. They are super hard to find. Ive been dealing with the VE's forever and know some guys pushing some serious numbers with them. I like em, the are readily available for us, cheaper, and they are found on light line stuff and ag stuff. Easy to work on too. Its a 4bt though, most of us are doing this conversion for fuel, efficiency and longevity, the VE will handle that anyday.
    1992 Dodge W250 LE Extended Cab, NV4500, 3:55's, 33's, Air bag front suspension, HX35/12cm, 4" exhaust turbo back, Pump maxed, Lotsa gauges, DennyT Power Pin

    1976 Scout II (4bt missing)4x4 5 speed Gutbag, 44f 70hd rear 4:10's locked up 37 " rubber with Hummer beadlocks backspaced, all in the works.

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    i,ve got a brand new 130 hp 4 bta engine with a p pump also.

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    Just to ad my $.02...The P pump, or the A pump, are almost required if you want to run alt. fuel; straight veg oil, etc. I've found they handle it much better.
    DieselJake
    Cummins - The Only Engine Worth Putting in Anything

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    Do the cummins inline pumps have aneroids fitted?

    I pulled the aneroid on my pump apart and found the diaphragm in it was shot. That'll account for the on/off torque surge I've been getting.

    Easy check if you've got one, pull the line to the aneroid off the intake and blow down it. If it leaks it needs attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselJake View Post
    Just to ad my $.02...The P pump, or the A pump, are almost required if you want to run alt. fuel; straight veg oil, etc. I've found they handle it much better.
    I would like to see more information about this, with evidence.
    1979 F-250 4WD, NP435 trans, NP205 TX case, 3.54 gears. IP turned up, H1C from 1993 12V with 12cm housing, 3" in and out FMIC.

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    Just to ad my $.02...The P pump, or the A pump, are almost required if you want to run alt. fuel; straight veg oil, etc. I've found they handle it much better.
    Nah, buddy of mine has been running straight veggie and bio for years on the VE. Had to replace the lift pump once, but we all have to do that ever so often.
    1992 Dodge W250 LE Extended Cab, NV4500, 3:55's, 33's, Air bag front suspension, HX35/12cm, 4" exhaust turbo back, Pump maxed, Lotsa gauges, DennyT Power Pin

    1976 Scout II (4bt missing)4x4 5 speed Gutbag, 44f 70hd rear 4:10's locked up 37 " rubber with Hummer beadlocks backspaced, all in the works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselJake View Post
    Just to ad my $.02...The P pump, or the A pump, are almost required if you want to run alt. fuel; straight veg oil, etc. I've found they handle it much better.
    While I'll admit that a pump that is lubed by engine oil and that has an individual pump piston for each cylinder is better at handling WVO / SVO duties than the VE, I'd not go as far as saying it's required.

    WAY too many pre-TDI VW diesels being run on "kitchen squeezins" for LOTS of miles for that to be the case.
    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
    Specialization is for insects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobS View Post
    You need to first confirm the problem BEFORE you start buying and replacing parts.

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    I see straight veg running through VE's on cummins trucks at my shop daily. As long as the oil is clean and heated properly, they hold up well. If not, well....
    You can however slack on that a little with the inline pumps as they seem to take the abuse a bit better. But then again, they are more expensive to rebuild.

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    Correct me if i am wrong but the A pump and P pump motors share a timing cover and gear set?

    If that is the case then a P pump conversion to an "A" pumped motor should be possible also for those looking to do a P-pump conversion.

    Doubt the fuel lines interchange and maybe someone can shed some light on the other particulars but the a pump motors that are being drilled and scrapped in CA would be a place to start potentially sourcing timing gear sets and timing covers for this swap cheaply.... like in free in some cases
    FSJ cherokee chief 4BTA 120 hp ve, piston lift pump, 50 hp lenny's injectors, 03 dodge HY35/9, 1991 dodge intercooler, 13" clutch & dodge nv5600 flywheel, nv4500/D300 3.54's D44 Ploks F&R
    4bt info

    2003 Dodge 3500 4x4 6 spd........

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    Quote Originally Posted by dusty View Post
    the a pump motors that are being drilled and scrapped in CA
    Huh? Where? I could use a good core engine as a spare.
    1979 F-250 4WD, NP435 trans, NP205 TX case, 3.54 gears. IP turned up, H1C from 1993 12V with 12cm housing, 3" in and out FMIC.

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    are the marine and street ppumps the same just tuned diffrently

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    Quote Originally Posted by LincTex View Post
    Huh? Where? I could use a good core engine as a spare.
    the blocks are being drilled so the block is junk. the CARB comes out and drills the holes and then takes the vin number. you'd have to get a hold of a agg supply company in the valley. the subsidies the state is paying for people to surrender these motors makes fast work of these things being removed from water pumps and making their way to the scrap yard in a short period of time.

    its all about right time right place and having someone who will call you when they come across a CARB drilled motor that still has some good guts.
    FSJ cherokee chief 4BTA 120 hp ve, piston lift pump, 50 hp lenny's injectors, 03 dodge HY35/9, 1991 dodge intercooler, 13" clutch & dodge nv5600 flywheel, nv4500/D300 3.54's D44 Ploks F&R
    4bt info

    2003 Dodge 3500 4x4 6 spd........

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    has anyone done a conversion?

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    Just my 2 cents, the VE pump also has a timing advance, which neither the A or P pumps have.
    Later,
    SS

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    Quote Originally Posted by southernstyle View Post
    Just my 2 cents, the VE pump also has a timing advance, which neither the A or P pumps have.
    Later,
    SS
    Not quite.
    The A and P pumps can have a timing device inside their drive gear. The Isuzu A pumps certainly do.
    Isuzu 4BD1T Junkie.

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    i,ve done two conversion from ve to p pumps. it's not as hard as some would let you believe.
    98 RANGER 4BT S300 S400 COMPOUND TURBOS, SHIVER INJECTION PUMP, J&L MACHINE INJECTORS
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