99 Durango 4bta Ppump + 47RE swap
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Thread: 99 Durango 4bta Ppump + 47RE swap

  1. #1
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    Default 99 Durango 4bta Ppump + 47RE swap

    So we rolled the durango into the garage yesterday to start the swap, after a long weekend working on the meryota one ton.

    the truck came with a 5.2l(318) gasser and a bad 46re. the plan is a solid reliable daily driver to haul the family, capable of high MPGs and some somewhat light towing- maybe tow a small camper around the USA someday.

    the truck got a whopping 11.2 MPGs according to the HUD before we started tearing it down. I hope for mid twenties, as i see that number on similar swaps.

    last week we went and pulled the 3.9 out of its home in a 95 oshkosh fed-ex truck, this one had the ford adapter, rear mount turbo and some other things that may be a bit different than some...

    I got the intercooler piping as well, maybe it'll even work....

    heres the engine/47re bolted up-




    man, it has some serious I beam mounts-

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    I see you have a front sump oil pickup. btw the pan is the same only the pickup tube changes. nice
    1989 K1500 4BT, 47RH, NP241C with NP231D input. http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...ild&highlight=
    1993 C3500 Dually, Dana 60 Solid axle swap, 6BT, 47RH, 4.10's http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...na-60-6BT-Auto
    93 deere 430 3cly yanmar diesel
    98 1840 case skidsteer 4B cummins
    The rest of my toys use gasoline.

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    Is your 47re a gas or diesel model? They would have different shift points. You would want the one that came with the cummins.

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    the trans came from a 96 ram diesel. it bolts right up- the only other engine that shares the bell housing pattern is the V-10, FYI....

    I found a local shop to make me a billet Torque Converter with a low stall for this( same thing as a 96 dodge unit, basically) for about $370.

    man there is a lot of stuff to remove just to get the engine and trans out. not like the 89 toyota pickup we just did last weekend. it is just about there, should have the engine fit and be putting parts back together through the weekend.

    since this is a Ppump, I do need to keep the intercooler-and we want AC, so that looks like one of the first challenges to figure out once the engine is installed.

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    where you at in minnisota? hows in going?
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    I am in minneapolis.

    I am making progress, albeit a bit slow this week. the engine is setting in place, now I need to get mounts fabbed up for it and figure out the front diff/ oil pan fiasco.

    it fits the truck great and at this point i think i can fudge the radiator back a lil bit and use the Air to air intercooler which came off my fedex donor. my Torque convertor will be done this week, and maybe I'll have the engine mounts and oil pan done as well.

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    very cool, i am down in decorah about 3 hours south of the cites. I do make it up there often though. Id like to see it when your done if that could happen. Hopefully Ill be swapping my dakota this summer too.
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    Oil pan is done(yes it is funny lookin), engine mounts and diff mounts are done.











    And here is a link to my PB album regarding diesel swapping-
    Last edited by mobetta; 06-23-2011 at 07:17 PM.

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    quick update- the local torque converter shop decided to build me a killer diesel low stall billet cover torque converter to bolt up the 5.2 gasser to a 47re???? WTF????

    but anyways, an entire week after I went down and saw they totally FUBARed my order, they called me back, not to say come get the right part, but said instead of the original $370 they now wanted $790+ dollars!!??? to build me the correct unit. so I went down there and told them where to shove it, got my money back and ordered one from online. UPS says it'll be here on tuesday.

    meanwhile I have been figuring out belt routing and wiring harness mods.....
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobetta View Post
    quick update- the local torque converter shop decided to build me a killer diesel low stall billet cover torque converter to bolt up the 5.2 gasser to a 47re???? WTF????

    but anyways, an entire week after I went down and saw they totally FUBARed my order, they called me back, not to say come get the right part, but said instead of the original $370 they now wanted $790+ dollars!!??? to build me the correct unit. so I went down there and told them where to shove it, got my money back and ordered one from online. UPS says it'll be here on tuesday.

    meanwhile I have been figuring out belt routing and wiring harness mods.....
    Man what a bummer sorry to hear about your bad luck.

    and as far as pullin out the gasser man they suck I would rather pull my 24V out of my Ram
    10 times than a gas engine out of the Dakota
    the 3.9 goes in and out a lot easier than the gaser
    good luck keep it comming
    Y2K 4X4 6spd home built twins and extras
    comeing soon 99 Dakota 4X4 et cab 4BT swap

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    good thing you got your money back. I hope they shoved it somewhere good!!!
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    On my 02 Dakota I used the original motor mounts that came off the 4.7 and adapted them to the 4BT.
    Jim Ag

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    I just got my 4.7 pulled, i should really start a build up thread.... what a bitch tho!!! we left the front bumper and transfercase on too, took like a good 10-12hrs.
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    yeah they sure do cram those gassers in there. i removed the front bumper and dropped the Tcase,i had a helper but it seems like we had it out in an evening....

    as for my project- had to take about a month off from it, but finally got back into it the other night-
    got the new TC mounted up, installed what is left of the 5.2 wiring harness on the engine/trans, roughed in tranny cooler lines, modified and installed the rear sump oil pickup, got all the math figured out and built brackets for the throttle, cruise, and kickdown linkage, adjusted the tranny bands, new filter,

    oohh yeah- AND with the help of my lovely wife, We Got The Engine Installed For the LAST time!!!well, it better be anyhow.(it was the first time she came out to the garage and actually physically helped,and her first engine swap experience- i think she learned some new words, among other things)

    we ended up dropping the steering box and drag link so we could finagle the crazy oil pan in there, things are tight. then i got the front diff re-mounted,and am working on the front end of the engine- AC, IC, radiator, crank sensor, etc, etc.....

    still got a long row to ho, but its coming together....
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    yea im kind of a stubborn Norwegian, so i am told. it would have been waaaay easy to remove the transfercase and bumper, and the a/c.
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    yeah, well the missing bumper also made it pretty easy to drop the 4b in those nine or ten times.....

    and despite all the cash the PO's supposedly dumped into the AC last summer, there was no charge in it, so pulling the condenser and lines was not a big deal either...
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    well i have gotten the ac/alt high mount custom setup fabbed,found a belt at napa, and am working on the radiator/condensor/Intercooler mounts. looks like i will be able to reuse the IC from the oshkosh, even using the old tubing, cut,cut, weld.....

    I have room for the mech fan, so life will be a bit simpler there. in bottom pics rad+ modified shroud are in.











    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    I really like the part number included in the pic, very nice documentation
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    Thanks- i also wrote it right on the rad support w/ a sharpie. it is a 7 rib belt as that is what my alt and ac comp from the durango are.

    of course, after i got everything fabbed up i found out that the tensoiner should be the last thing before the crank pulley,(NOT how the engine came, but it did have 200* of wrap on the alt, no A/C.) so when the ac loads the belt it doesnt flop. so we'll see how this setup works, but at this point i doubt that I'll be messing w/ AC until spring. I hope I have enough wrap on the alternator now.

    for the rad, i simply fabbed new "ears" (2.5x2" steel scraps w/ 1"holes for the rubber bushings)to move the lower mounts back about 2", left the uppers intact. this allowed enough room for the condenser to be moved back, i did have to move the V brace forward, there is a hole for the wiring loom which i ran the same e=self threading bolt into, moving the top of the brace forward about an inch.

    hopefully this weekend i'll get the exhaust downpipe welded up, final AIC mounts in, and then i need to drop the tank and work on that before i go re-installing the drivetrain. still need to get a target wheel made for the crank sensor, go to ratshack and get parts to build a TPS delete kit, and work out the final bits of wiring harness on the engine before i do a final radiator/ ac condenser/ AIC install.
    Last edited by mobetta; 07-30-2011 at 09:56 AM.
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    Nice work. I had the same problem with the tensioner as you have mentioned, i.e. I put the tensioner in the same position as yours. When the alternator was loaded heavy it would pull the tensioner up, loosening the belt and cause it to squeel. I moved the tensiner to the bottom passengers side of the block and that fixed the problem. I took the target wheel out of the v-8 gas motor and mounted it in front of the crank pulley and mounted the sensor to the side. That worked well for me. You can use the throttle position sensor off your gas engine and turn and lock it in that position for the desired resistance to make the trans or whatever get the correct message rather than going to Radio Shack. Check my pics or ask any questions you may have.
    Jim

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    Thanks for the info- I suppose the thing to do is re-work the belt routing now, before i have issues. I just dont have room for a tensioner down below unless i swap out the lower water neck. I'll have to look it over again, at least now i can return the belt and find another.

    I saw how you used the original target wheel, looks like a great fix. On the 5.2 it is built in to the flexplate, and has 8 even spaced holes, so i cannot reuse it as the diameter is too great, but i reckon i;ll have a shop mill one up like the unit daw-two is running.

    I had considered reusing the TPS, mine is spring loaded and though i may be able to make it work, a POT is under $10, then i can fine tune it from the cab. of course, once set itll probably never move, so mebbe i should reuse the old one.
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    I have not seen daw-two's target wheel. How can I find it. For the target wheel I think the spacing of the holes or notches will need to be pretty close but the diameter is not critical.
    The lower water neck is also easy to fabricate. A piece of 1/4 in. flat plate and some exhaust pipe, cut pipe on angle and weld to get desired location. I routed my pipe down and them to the front.
    If you need pictures let me know and I will post on my thread.
    Good luck and happy motoring.
    Jim

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    Daw_two's setup is here, post 144.

    so looks like i will need to put the tensioner right where the lower neck is to make it work. its tight down there, i have forward engine mounts, and also the idler arm mount. so i will be fabbing up a lower water inlet, looks like one hose i have may work w/ new position, so thats a break. and neither the cummins or the dodge 5.2 tensioner will work. so i need to get to the junkyard.

    new route- fan hub- idler- AC- WP- Alt- Tensioner-crank should do good, i will have serious wrap on everything, and the tension set at the correct place.

    but i did drop off my crank pulley and some aluminum stock yesterday to have a target wheel made.
    Last edited by mobetta; 08-02-2011 at 08:53 AM.
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    I'm not very good with electricity but here goes. I am under the impression the target wheel needs to be a ferrous metal. I used aluminum for a spacer/adapter because it was easy to machine and light weight but the target wheel was iron so the magnetic field would flash or triger or signal the crank sensor. I think if you use aluminum that magnetic field will not be trigered. Check that out before you have your target wheel made form Al.
    Jim
    Last edited by JimAg; 08-02-2011 at 09:27 PM.

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    So are you going to notch your frame and go with the cummins stock location for the A/C compressor?
    01' Dodge Dakota 4bt VE ,NV4500, NP233 fuel pin, 3200 spring, tuned pump, 50hp TDC injectors k16 over k27 turbos
    Ram 1500 buildup
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...highlight=1500
    Dakota build up
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...uad-4bt-nv4500

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    no, i already have that mounted. I just need to fab up a water intake so i can move the tensioner form the original location.

    the idler arm from steering is right where the dodge ac mount would be, no problem for 00 and newer rides.
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimAg View Post
    I'm not very good with electricity but here goes. I am under the impression the target wheel needs to be a ferrous metal. I used aluminum for a spacer/adapter because it was easy to machine and light weight but the target wheel was iron so the magnetic field would flash or triger or signal the crank sensor. I think if you use aluminum that magnetic field will not be trigered. Check that out before you have your target wheel made form Al.
    Jim
    I agree the pickup is magnetic and it needs to be on steel the notches break the mag pulse
    Y2K 4X4 6spd home built twins and extras
    comeing soon 99 Dakota 4X4 et cab 4BT swap

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    DUH! ummm- yeah, of course they would want to see a magnetic pulse........from a steel wheel.......

    well since the machinist had already turned a chunk of aluminum for a target wheel we came up with epoxying these 1/8x1.5mm rare earth magnets into 8 holes instead of milling notches, and before throwing the 3 hours of work into the trash bin. luckily ax-man surplus had a dozen for a whopping buck-fifty. that helps me feel better. especially if it works.

    anyone think it will- or wont- work?
    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    well, I got the new belt routing figured out, used an early 90's GM 2.1l tensioner, and idler from the 5.2. since i had to fab a lower water inlet, i made it so the lower radiator hose is going to be original durango,
    now onto the final wiring on the engine, getting alt, ac hooked up, run wiring to crank sensor, then drop in the radiator and IC for a test fire! One more good day and i reckon she'll make smoke. a few days and we might even be (test)driving it.

    On the bottom side of things, Still need to drop the tank to drain gasoline, run fuel lines and get the T case and driveshafts installed. topside/ underhood is pretty much all fabbed, just need to do final wiring and install.







    all the parts to make it work, modified custom high mount.


    99 Durango 4BTAA P pump, Glowshift gauges, hx30w9 (today), 3K GSK, custom ground 100 plate, AFC tuned, 96 47RE +billet single disc TC)

    My Build thread

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    I like it.
    Jim

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