rebuilding my 4bt
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    Default rebuilding my 4bt

    I just took my 4bt down to the bare block so I could inspect everything and see what I have to work with.
    Everything looks good, its front bearings were showing copper but the rest looked good. I think it started to lose oil pressure but it was cought in time befoer major damage was done. So new oil pump and a rebuild kit and should be good to go. The problem is they what the cpl # and the tag is missing. How do i find out what kit i need? what company to go with ? any help wolud be great thanks
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    ... So new oil pump and a rebuild kit and should be good to go. The problem is they what the cpl # and the tag is missing. How do i find out what kit i need? what company to go with ?

    You can try and google the part numbers you have on various parts and see if you can figure what they came with.

    But before you order a kit have the bores looked at and measured. Even if the cilinders don't need to be rebored they'll need to be honed. The machine shop i took my block to cleaned, magna-fluxed and took all the measurements of the block for ~$70. it's probably a good idea to have them look at the head, it'll likely benefit from a valve job. Once you're there you may as well take the cam and crank with you and have them looked at.

    What are you planing on getting out of the engine?
    Last edited by interzonearts; 02-25-2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: typo
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    my buddy is bringing his miks over on monday to check every thing and was planing on having it honed.
    i am planning about 300 hp. hopeing every thing is good i dont have a big budget for this project
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    i am planning about 300 hp. hopeing every thing is good i dont have a big budget for this project
    Sounds like you'll be hot roddin' to the max
    Save few $ by porting the head yourself.
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    i am planning about 300 hp. hopeing every thing is good i dont have a big budget for this project
    Those sentences don't seem to fit together.
    BobS

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    You might be able to squeeze 200hp on a budget but definitely not 300.
    Dave
    1970 F250 Crewcab SB. VE 4bt. M5R2, Hx30/Hx35 Twins, 40hp stix, DennyT stage 2 pin, Intercooled, 3200 gov spring, Starwheel cranked, smoke screw screwed, M&H dynamic timing advance, Hydroboosted.http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ins/index.html
    1991 Gillig Phantom, Converted transit bus. 6v92t Detroit Diesel, Allison 4 speed. 6500 watt Diesel gen on board.
    1998 Dodge Ram 2500 12v, 4"TB, 4gsk, BHAF, TST Spring, AFC tuned. Stockish.

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    What's your budget?
    1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA 375hp and 720ft/lbs torque, 12.9 at 103mph 1/4.
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

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    i alredy have a 250hp pump that was just built and a hx35 so 300 hp wont be to hard. so most of my budget went to the pump. i am not trying to say i am going to cheap out on the motor build, i am going to do it right i only want to do it one time.
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobS View Post
    Those sentences don't seem to fit together.
    I agree with this statement.

    If most of your budget already went into your pump its going to be hard to get that hp level. Firerings,ARPs,balanced rotating assembly,camshaft etc. costs some, besides defeating the purpose of the engine. Stock to 150-160 would be plenty in a Ranger and still have durability,reliability,longevity(what these were made for). At the 300hp level you'll continue sinking money into it because it wasnt designed for it, your leftovers will be in the classified section, ask any boat owner with 4bts in their boat. Constant maintenance. My two cents.
    69 Bronco 4bt/IC/HE221, NP435/203/205, 3.54 D60s OX locker F and Detroit R, military H1 beadlocks and 38" rubber
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    i am going to do it right i only want to do it one time.
    There's no reason for you not having what you want. If you're not in a hurry you can put it together, money after all is just means to help you negotiate through life.

    I'd spent whatever money you got on machining first. Decking and o-ringing the block, reconciling the rods haven't been mentioned here.

    What do you need 300hp for anyway?
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    why I want 300hp is when I built my bronco it ended up with 100 hp and its boring to drive. i swore not to under power again. I dont have to have 300hp but it would definitely be alot of fun. i appreciate all the input from everyone but no one has answered my main ?. How do i get the right rebuild kit without the ID tag or do i not need any of that info? Thanks
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    How do i get the right rebuild kit without the ID tag or do i not need any of that info? Thanks
    Do you still have the tag on the injection pump?
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    If you have a 250 hp pump that sounds like a marine P pump. Not necessarily the ideal pump for a road engine. I'd agree with the other guys that 300 hp on a budget ain't likely to happen. A 200 hp 4bt isn't very boring and that can be done on a reasonable budget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by char1355 View Post
    If you have a 250 hp pump that sounds like a marine P pump. Not necessarily the ideal pump for a road engine.
    What's so different about a marine p pump? Is it the governor?

    And how does it get 250hp? Different fuel plate, plunger/spill port geometry or what?
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    You don't need anything special for a rebuild kit. Measure for bearing size and piston size. I'd put marine pistons in it. Now tell me more about your pump please. Also your hx35 won't like 300hp.
    1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA 375hp and 720ft/lbs torque, 12.9 at 103mph 1/4.
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    why I want 300hp is when I built my bronco it ended up with 100 hp and its boring to drive. i swore not to under power again. I dont have to have 300hp but it would definitely be alot of fun. i appreciate all the input from everyone but no one has answered my main ?. How do i get the right rebuild kit without the ID tag or do i not need any of that info? Thanks
    Most(not all) older stepvan CPLs were 767/858. Personally I would get a CPL manual(20 bucks on epay) and match the part #s to your engine configuration. The ESN is on the rear of the engine and would help getting parts for it. I only use Cummins parts, just my preference.

    Punching in "identify engine esn" this came up http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...+engine+by+esn If you use the search function or the stickies BobS and others have compiled, all your answers have been answered many,many times. A little patience and research goes a long way.
    Last edited by redhedbronco; 02-27-2012 at 12:36 PM.
    69 Bronco 4bt/IC/HE221, NP435/203/205, 3.54 D60s OX locker F and Detroit R, military H1 beadlocks and 38" rubber
    "sealing the deal on this forum section as a whole..(and/or his entire membership here){which has been an issue before}ps: you were warned.... Redhedbronco reported for vulgarity character attack."-47Ford-1.5Ton Rats dwell here.
    Please, Drifter, don't give me any more advice because I can't afford it and I don't want to destroy my engine or truck.-JimmieD

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    the pump was biult by columbis deisel in ohio for a guy that was going to put a 4bt in a s10 he lost intrust in the project and sold every thing. i got the pump with the recit for the biuld, call and spoke with the guy that biult the pump and it is set up for road use. i also compared it to the pump on my 6bt and the gov looked exactly the same. thanks for all the info
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    the pump was biult by columbis deisel in ohio for a guy that was going to put a 4bt in a s10 he lost intrust in the project and sold every thing. i got the pump with the recit for the biuld, call and spoke with the guy that biult the pump and it is set up for road use. i also compared it to the pump on my 6bt and the gov looked exactly the same. thanks for all the info
    You may be able to trace the SN of the original pump if you still have it and find out the engine's ESN that way,
    I think i remember a thread in which CrewCab59 gave someone their ESN after that member posted a pic of the pump tag.
    Last edited by interzonearts; 02-27-2012 at 06:08 PM.
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    the pump was biult by columbis deisel in ohio for a guy that was going to put a 4bt in a s10 he lost intrust in the project and sold every thing. i got the pump with the recit for the biuld, call and spoke with the guy that biult the pump and it is set up for road use. i also compared it to the pump on my 6bt and the gov looked exactly the same. thanks for all the info
    My pump came from cds too. What is your set at for cc's? What gov do you have in it?
    1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA 375hp and 720ft/lbs torque, 12.9 at 103mph 1/4.
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

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    i dont remember what the cc's are at and i think the gov is set to 3200 i was going to call them when i get closer to geting it together. we mesured every thing today rods,mains are ten under and look good.the motor has been gone throw befor. there are good part # on every thing so i should not have any trouble geting the right parts
    Last edited by littlebroncokid; 02-28-2012 at 07:06 PM.
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    i have my motor build mapped out at this point my plan is to balance the rotating assembly,stage 3 colt cam, arp head studs,p-pump,air dog lift pump, and a single turbo have not decided on one yet. going to order parts soon. would like input on my planned setup thanks for your input and experance
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    why I want 300hp is when I built my bronco it ended up with 100 hp and its boring to drive. i swore not to under power again.
    You're doing it again. Build a 6bt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    and a single turbo have not decided on one yet. going to order parts soon. would like input
    Well i'm no expert but the experts are silent so here's my two pesos: The only single turbo that makes sense in my head in this set up would be a ball bearing turbo.

    What injectors are you're planning for and what about pistons/rings?
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    i was looking at running 17 to one pistons and i thought all the rings are the same ? but i am new so i could be wrong

    as far as "adreamsoreal" coment above 300 will be plenty i may have to work harder to get it. i hardly have room for the 4bt if i did the 6bt i would have to put cup holders on the rear valve cover cause it would be thru the dash. i have the 4b mocked in and it is thru the fire wall 2 inches
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebroncokid View Post
    i was looking at running 17 to one pistons and i thought all the rings are the same ? but i am new so i could be wrong
    Alright, i'm gonna tell you what i think and if i'm off base somebody please set me straight.

    To get you 300hp you're going have to turn your engine more than twice as fast as the optimum rpm the engine was designed for and burn a lot of fuel to get there. That means tons of heat from burning and friction. Metal when heated expands. It's calculated into the design but you're changing it a lot and it's important that you take it into consideration.

    I'm thinking pistons with thermal characteristics designed for that level of stress, low friction rings with appropriate thermal characteristics. i don't know if you can upgrade the piston cooling jets. I wonder what happens to the stock bearings at very high rpms. Do you need a better oil pump?

    There's a shop near where i live that powder coats pistons to improve heat transfer and reduce friction, i don't know what that is worth though.

    You got an engine that's got the potential to last a long time. It'd be foolish to wreck it by going cheep and/or abusing it just to get some kicks.

    Hope that helps.
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by interzonearts View Post
    Alright, i'm gonna tell you what i think and if i'm off base somebody please set me straight.

    To get you 300hp you're going have to turn your engine more than twice as fast as the optimum rpm the engine was designed for and burn a lot of fuel to get there. That means tons of heat from burning and friction. Metal when heated expands. It's calculated into the design but you're changing it a lot and it's important that you take it into consideration.

    I'm thinking pistons with thermal characteristics designed for that level of stress, low friction rings with appropriate thermal characteristics. i don't know if you can upgrade the piston cooling jets. I wonder what happens to the stock bearings at very high rpms. Do you need a better oil pump?

    There's a shop near where i live that powder coats pistons to improve heat transfer and reduce friction, i don't know what that is worth though.

    You got an engine that's got the potential to last a long time. It'd be foolish to wreck it by going cheep and/or abusing it just to get some kicks.

    Hope that helps.
    Look at my engine build thread. That will give you a good idea of what's needed for parts to build a stout bottom end. A good machineist is also worth his weight in gold.
    1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA 375hp and 720ft/lbs torque, 12.9 at 103mph 1/4.
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

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    i just want to say thanks for all the input i want to do it rirht and to last
    01 super duty 6bt p-pump nv4500 np205 daily driver , current project "draggin rang" 85 ranger bagged and body droped wilth a p-pumped 4bt

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    Quote Originally Posted by khaoskustoms View Post
    A good machineist is also worth his weight in gold.
    5000 rpm, no ****! Three times as fast as the sweet spot...
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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    What do you mean by sweet spot?
    1994 Dodge Dakota Ext Cab 4x4. 4BTA 375hp and 720ft/lbs torque, 12.9 at 103mph 1/4.
    There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots

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    I meant ~1700 rpm, as far as my understanding goes that's where the 4bt operates in the most efficient way.
    If you don't know your place, get married, have some kids and a dog. You'll find your place - right behind the dog.

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