67 Ford F100 with Isuzu 4BD1T

[carcrafter22]

Yeah I remember when gale banks son posted pics of the engine a year or so ago on comp d. I had mine in the works well before banks let that one out of the bag lol.

Dougal I've been considering using a chevy frame maybe a late model with hydroformed frame they have a stationary diff with it's I could just install my rear axle and 4 link make some body mounts and go. I could still get the truck as low as it is now so no worries on looks.

[Dougal]

Yeah I remember when gale banks son posted pics of the engine a year or so ago on comp d. I had mine in the works well before banks let that one out of the bag lol.

Dougal I've been considering using a chevy frame maybe a late model with hydroformed frame they have a stationary diff with it's I could just install my rear axle and 4 link make some body mounts and go. I could still get the truck as low as it is now so no worries on looks.

Oh I'm not worried about being low for the look. Stability counts when you're four wheel drifting.

[carcrafter22]

your missing the point. If the truck is sitting pretty low who is gonna think it's a 4x4? Probably noone unless they look underneath. Most will think it's just a lowered old ford that will never hook up hehe. And yes stability is key when drifting around corners lol

[nexxussian]

Randy, my only concern would be getting the Chevy IFS front to survive the beating.

I know your truck would still be light (for a truck, what 3500 ish with all the extra drivetrain?) but the extra heavy duty stuff would need to be there or I would expect "issues".

I know someone will post something about "if you drive it sensibly", but I think we all know you will beat on it like any of the rest of us would (especially me ).

On the other hand if you left harder compund tires on it (you did say "good quality street tires", they don't have to be DOT cheaters ) it might survive.

Looking forward to seeing you turning 360s in its' own wheelbase, if we can see through the smoke.

[carcrafter22]

Hey Eric glad to see you back around. The chevy it's would hold up good I've ran nothing less than 500+ rea wheel hp through mine with a ton of 4x4 runs at the strip with dual stages of nitrous in my 7300 pound truck although that's in the HD truck so I'm not so sure about the light duty pumpkin up front. I have been thinking I could just buy a 2500hd chassis and chop it then install the 9.5" 14 bolt I already have since it has the right bolt pattern and is lighter than the 11.5aam axle. I don't know there are lots of options I am considering right now.

I did some research and the trailblazer SS guys have blown those AWD cases already so I don't think they would last behind my little 4 banger. On the other hand I have thought about just going ahead with the 5r110 and putting a part time case behind it so I can at least have great traction in a straight line.

I'm not sure what to do. I found a guy that makes a part to put a 4l80/85e in front of the AWD case and I know the 4l85e when built will handle 800rwhp in a mustang so I'd imagine it would work in my 3800lb truck with 600hp. Oh what to do what to do.

I'm still on the search for the elusive 4be intake since I'd rather not make one at this point. I gotta go price rolling chassis now.

[Dougal]

I'm still on the search for the elusive 4be intake since I'd rather not make one at this point. I gotta go price rolling chassis now.

I'll sell you mine once I've cleaned it and modelled it up in solidworks.

[carcrafter22]

Thanks Dougal, if your ever in the USA look me up I'll buy you a beer


After Dougal getting me all excited about the all wheel drive setup I spent the day thinking about it more and have decided to go AWD. I plan to strip my current F100 down to bare rolling chassis frame and only keep the body. I have no idea what its worth so can anyone tell me what they think the complete chassis is worth with the aftermarket 20" wheels and new tires? I will probably list it for sale in a few weeks when I get home and get it stripped but I have no idea what its worth with the IRS and IFS.

I have been looking at chevy 1500 and 2500 chassis for the 4x4 part but I havent left out escalades and tahoes since I know I will have to shorten it no matter what. I like the idea of using a 1500 chassis since the frame is lighter and not nearly as tall I can always swap in the 2500 diff later if needed but I dont know. I do have an 8 lug 9.5" 14 bolt I plan on using so maybe I should just start with a 2500 frame to begin with and be done with it. After some looking I think I can get away with an NV149 AWD T case from a silverado SS or similar vehicle, guys are saying they live up behind 1200hp big blocks so I should be fine with mine since it will be 98% street driven. As for transmissions I really wanted the 5R110 since I made the adapter but I'm thinking I can build a 4L85E to handle this thing, maybe I'll finally get around to building those custom adapters for the chevy trannies that do away with the isuzu flywheel/housing.

So thats the plan for now let me know what you think.

[nexxussian]

I think the HDs have a different front setup (based on a D 60 or something similar I think?).

Would be a PITA to fit that diff in there with the Isuzu too.

Not impossible, just dificult.

There was an AWD full size GMC, I forget what year, 1 year only it's called a C3.

I think it was new enough to have the hydro formed frame too.

IIRC gasser only, but might be a tougher AWD Tcase.

[carcrafter22]

The HD's use a 9.25" aluminum front diff that is extremely tuff for drag racing (Ive never seen one tear up even with a 1700 wheel hp Dmax). I've never heard of a C3 but I'll try looking it up. I had been thinking of the NV149 from a silverado SS or similar vehicle, I know you have to swap the input shaft on it for a custom unit that is 32 spline so it will work with the 4l85e.

[Dougal]

That NV149 looks useful for a fun vehicle. 38% front, 62% rear torque split with a viscous action.
http://www.wtfba.org/temp/NVG-149.pdf

Like the evil twin of an audi quattro tdi.

[carcrafter22]

Yeah it should make for a bit of fun. The full size truck guys seem to love it I just hope it's up to the task of some diesel torque.

[nexxussian]

Yeah, high impulse low fequency (ie 4cyl) diesel.

The fellah I know with the C3 says it was a 1 year deal, lost their shirt since the didn't sell.

Aparently somewhat upscale AWD pickup.

I think it'd look kinda neat with the C3 badge next to the "FORD" on your tailgate.

Tell 'em it's an old Ford Powertrain Development Vehicle.

I'll email the guy and see what year his truck is.

[nexxussian]

Or I can Google it.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/200...rst_drive.html

Sounds neat, in concept anyway.

[Dougal]

Or I can Google it.

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/html/200...rst_drive.html

Sounds neat, in concept anyway.

It appears to be the same transfercase. Check my link a few posts above and compare it to the pictures in that article.

I had the pleasure of participating in some organised snow driving in brand new audi quattros just last year. Slalom, understeer & oversteer drills etc. If you can pull it off this truck will be just as much fun but in the dry and grippy.

[damarble]

If you want to use the 5R110 maybe a Expedition t-case will bolt up? They have an AWD mode.

[carcrafter22]

I was reading up on the c3 on another site for LSX powered trucks is very similar to the SS silverados and siera denali's and uses the nv149. The c3 was only made for 2001 model year for some reason.

The other thing I didnt think about was the 4x4 front diff having the actuator and trucks like the SS being factory AWD have a permanently fixed front diff. I wonder whats a good way to fix this?

I have a few options I guess I can put a locker in there, how do you guys think that would work on a street truck? should be just fine and still smooth thanks to the AWD Tcase right? I could also wire up a switch in the cab to deactivate the AWD when I dont want it like when I go to dyno? I wonder how long the front diff activator would last if I keep it engaged 99% of the time the truck is running? I would imagine it would last a very long time. Thoughts anyone?

[bush65]

I was reading up on the c3 on another site for LSX powered trucks is very similar to the SS silverados and siera denali's and uses the nv149. The c3 was only made for 2001 model year for some reason.

The other thing I didnt think about was the 4x4 front diff having the actuator and trucks like the SS being factory AWD have a permanently fixed front diff. I wonder whats a good way to fix this?

I have a few options I guess I can put a locker in there, how do you guys think that would work on a street truck? should be just fine and still smooth thanks to the AWD Tcase right? I could also wire up a switch in the cab to deactivate the AWD when I dont want it like when I go to dyno? I wonder how long the front diff activator would last if I keep it engaged 99% of the time the truck is running? I would imagine it would last a very long time. Thoughts anyone?

I'm not sure what you mean by the actuator/activator for front diff, or permanently fixed front diff.

I regularly use rear and front lockers off road. I wouldn't ever want a front locker engaged on road - steering would be dangerous IMHO.

My knowledge of AWD/full time 4WD vehicles is mostly limited to Land Rovers and Landcruisers, but I doubt any would allow this to be switched off for running on a 2wd dyno. They usually have a centre diff or viscous coupling for on road use - centre diffs need to be locked for off road use. To run on a 2wd dyno, jack front wheels of floor or lock centre diff and remove front drive shaft.

[carcrafter22]

Sorry I should have explained, sometimes I type without thinking lol. The chassis I'm thinking of using (chevy 2500 4x4) uses an IFS front suspension with an actuator that is engaged when you engage the transfer case into 4wd. I may be wrong on this but from what I understand the the actuator locks the front driveshaft to the front diff so it can turn the front wheels.

Here is a quote from another website "The disconnect allows the front left and right wheels to spin independently of each other, and allows the front prop-shaft to remain still while in 2WD mode. This helps to prevent the front differential and prop-shaft seals from wearing, and theoretically reduces the rolling resistance of the drive train to improve the fuel mileage."

I guess I need to research how the AWD and the 4WD front diffs are different (besides the awd unit not having an actuator) and decide which one I will want to go with.

You do bring up a good point John. I guess I could always go with an E locker like I am going to install in the rear axle so I can have a normally open diff then flip a switch and have it fully locked for when I plan on going fast in a straight line

[Rodeoclown]

The front differential shouldn't be any different inside. Sounds like what they are talking about is the long side axle shaft being in 2 pieces and having a locking ring that connects the two when 4wd is engaged. This has no effect on the actual differential. I have seen people permanently lock them to get rid of the weak link of the actuator which affectivly just turns a 2 piece axle shaft into one single always locked shaft. Take all this with a grain of salt due to my lack of experience with chevy drivetrains but I do have a fair bit of experience with jeep and other 4x4 drivetrains. Good luck.

[bush65]

There is no practical reason for the front diff of an AWD or fulltime 4wd to be any different to the front diff of any part time 4wd.

However the AWD or fulltime 4wd, need either a 3rd differential, viscous coupling, or such like that allow the front drive shaft to turn at a different speed to the rear drive shaft when the vehicle is turning on high traction surfaces - part time 4wd vehicles lack this ability so 4wd shouldn't be engaged in that situation.

Because an AWD or fulltime 4wd has a centre diff or viscous coupling, it can't be used in 2wd - with the drive to the front wheels disconnected (free wheel hubs or disconnect drive shaft) - unless the centre diff is locked (I don't know of any viscous couplings that can be locked).

[carcrafter22]

Rodeoclown you are correct and I think I would just remove the actuator and make something to keep the diff permanently connected instead of tracking down the special front diff for an SS or similar vehicle since they are special the the 2500 models are much stronger and a dime a dozen compared to the SS AWD diffs.

John I am not sure why GM decided to have the transfer case engage and the front differential engage on part time 4wd vehicles other than the slight mpg gain and less frequently moving parts to wear. The AWD vehicles like the silverado SS recieved a front diff that had both of the front axles engaged at all times with no actuator to disengage the passenger side shaft along with a mechanical transfer case that transfered power to all wheels at all times with no other options that had a viscous coupling for smooth operation around turns.

They do make transfer cases that can be AWD as well as part time 4wd or 2wd they came in many different vehicles here in the states, they even came in grand cherokees like the one I built for my wife.

The question to all this is of course will these AWD cases handle the tq of a diesel? I will assume the 149 case will since they have been behind a few big powered gasser engines but who knows. The other side of this is if I go this route I will have to go with a 4l85e to avoid costly machine work to mate the 149 to an allison or the 5r110 I have and with AWD comes great traction so what will be the next weak link? Will the tranny suffer? hmm.

[Dougal]

Even with AWD, I think traction will still be your fuse. That's a good thing.
A diesel's lumpy torque is filtered out and very smooth by the time it gets to the transfer-case. The highest loads a transfer case sees are in low gears starting to tow a load. Since you won't be towing much I think you'll be okay.
What's the expected weight of your finished truck?

To put it into perspective, my 4bd1t powered rangerover is fulltime 4wd with all open diffs (centre is manually lockable) and weighs 2300kg empty with a very even front/rear weight split.
It's possible to spin tyres off the mark by giving it at least 1500rpm before releasing the clutch, but I don't like doing that. Even in 3rd gear it can spin an inside wheel on corners.

Traction wise I think a setup like yours will work best with all independent suspension. If you run a live axle in the rear the driveshaft torque will crank down one side of the rear axle under power, taking weight off one rear wheel and the opposite corner front wheel. An independent suspension setup is immune to this behaviour, except for chassis twist which can be controlled within acceptable limits.
My rangerover has live axles front and rear with both driveshafts turning the same way. So it is also immune to this behaviour but for very different reasons.

[454cid]

I don't know why GM did the front axle the way they did. I don't know exactly how it works, but the left and right sides unlock from each other. We aren't talking about disengaging the transfer-case. I've often wished GM would have used traditional locking hubs instead, because as it is, the cv-shafts always turn and there is a delay engaging 4WD even with a manual transfer-case. Having said that, I've never had a problem with mine. Running a tall lift, big tires, and actually trying to wheel the truck is what breaks them, from what I've read. Running the IFS in an on-road situation (other than snow) is out of my realm of knowledge, but I would think it would be fine since CV-angles shouldn't be an issue. My truck is stock height.