'92 Dodge Cummins engine oil pan reversal to front sump.
I'm trying to reverse the oil pan on my '92 Dodge Cummins 6bt and have purchased a pickup tube off ebay that looked like it had a good chance of working.
It got here, and it bolts right up and the pan goes on just fine and I believe it would work without a problem. However, I noticed a few things.
1. It's positioned about 3/8" higher than the rear sump unit.
2. It's located about 2" closer to the drain hole than the rear sump unit.
Should I care? Seems to me none of this matters unless you run it out of oil; and the positioning just means that happens 2qts sooner if I run it out of oil.
I could probably heat and bend it to get the height the same. Should I?
Thanks for the advice,
P.S. I'd post pictures but I can't yet...I don't have 10 posts.
The location in relation to the oil-drain isn't much of a concern,but you want to keep it as close to the bottom as possible to prevent cavitation.I'm not sure what the Cummins Spec is,but they are usually quite close,maybe 3/8" - 1/2" off the pan-floor at most in extreme situations.I would try to get the spec,then adjust the tube accordingly,or find the correct pickup(preferred method).Hope this helps.
Here's the difference we're talking about. I don't believe there is a front sump pickup tube assembly for the Dodge pan. If there is, I'd love to just buy one. I've bought two already; what's one more.
I have a front sump pickup tube for a 6bt, and it's much shorter than this front sump tube...which is actually for a 4bt. Probably a full inch shorter.
If I can't buy a pickup tube for this pan, I guess I can buy a pickup tube and pan from a front sump 6bt if I can find one. Or, I can warm this one up with the torch and bend it a bit. Or, I could just chop it up and fabricate one. I can tig weld, I just prefer not to. All it takes is one fatigue crack from vibration and I lose the engine.
The original pickup tube is maybe 1/8" of the bottom of the pan when assembled like stock, and that "bottom" is actually a concave depression that is about 1/8" deeper than the surrounding area. So, given that, this pickup tube is around 1/4-3/8" off the flat bottom of the pan. I'll clay it to make sure; just don't have any at the moment.
Last edited by ByronRACE; 10-20-2013 at 09:13 PM.
You could always make up a spacer where the tube bolts up, use a gasket either side and space out the support bracket. Longer bolts and Loctite. No welding on the tube.
i welded a piece in mine to make it longer to convert my 4bt to rear sump. 50,000 miles and still working fine. and that was a mig weld. i wouldnt worry about it cracking...
Thanks for the ideas; the spacer idea seems like a good option. Welding isn't bad either. I guess I'm hoping there's a "proper" front sump for this dodge pan, but I think I know the answer.
If its 3/8" from the bottom, that is perfectly fine. I wouldnt worry about it.
Medium-Duty applications use a front-sump at times.Check with a Truck-dealer such a International,or directly thru Cummins.I wouldn't do the spacer,unless it was welded to the pickup,just for the fact of the chance of it loosening and causing the pump to suck air and cavitate.
Not sure about the International use but the engine I have came out of a Ford F600, front sump. Will be modding the pickup for rear sump use.
Can measure the pickup if you would like the measurements.
The Ford pick I have has the part number 3923393 on it, 8 1/4" from the mounting faces to the pick up.
Have a couple of pic's but cannot upload.
I'll measure mine tonight and post the results. I also am hoping to clay the oil pan tonight as well.
This is what the clearance looks like when you take a front-sump pickup P/N 3920795 (intended for 4bt pan p/n 3901049) then bolt it on a 92 Dodge 6BT and reverse the pan.
The clearance from the pickup to the bottom of the sump in the pan is 0.466"
I found a guy online that did a 6BT conversion into a classic winnebago and he used this pickup and this pan combination without modification. He's put a few thousand miles on it and has not had any oiling issues so far. I just want to make sure I do what's best while the pan is off.
Last edited by ByronRACE; 10-24-2013 at 10:27 PM.
Met a guy that put one in a classic winnebago and he's using the same pickup and pan, unmodified. Looks like it's probably fine as is. Still soliciting opinions..
suggest you leave it alone,and save yourself some trouble...with just less than half an inch to bottom of pan, your fine.not worth worrying about.
currently modding an 86' m-1010 cucv ambulance,with factory 14-bolt/detroit in back and an open 60 in front.lifted 6 inches,running 37's on 17 x 8's.now swappimg in a mild 6bt,and an nvg-4500/np205 combo.hope to have it running by fall.
link to engine build... http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...n-engine-build
Most International dealers are Cummins Dealers.They use many variations of Cummins,not just the 5.9.If they use Cummins,they have access to the entire product-line for parts.Give them your Engine Serial Number,and CPL (usually a 3 or 4-digit#),and they can look up your exact motor and any options for it.Hope this helps.
most likely wont have a problem, but why take the chance when you have the engine apart. Heat & bend or cut & weld to make it closer to the original. there's a support bracket on the tube it won't stress crack a good tig weld on steel, a little peace of mind goes a long way sometimes. Did you clay it with the pan gasket on? just didn't see it in the the ,pic, that would add like .040 put you at a half inch off the bottom. if your thinkin this much about it, it is obviously giviin you 2nd thoughts, just my .02$ Does anybody know if the 4bt pan is shallower than the 6bt?
The oil pickup gasket and oil pan gasket are one piece; I'm using a Fel Pro gasket. This means the pickup and pan move together as a unit when the gasket is installed; the clearance should not change.
Since I've now found two people that have reversed the dodge oil pan and used the same pickup off a 4bt that I did; and neither of those guys have modified the pickup and both have no oil problems, I believe I'll leave it alone. Cutting and welding a factory built part for the sake of putting the pickup 1/4" deeper into the oil doesn't seem worth the risk of what could go wrong if I weld it and it leaks or cracks.
Now that I've moved the dipstick to the front, it's easier to see how deep in the oil this pickup tube is. It sure was nice to discover the dipstick tube was plastic and flexible; that sure made relocation a breeze. I thought I was going to have to really battle that tube to get it to route around the vacuum pump and all; but it went together in minutes. I turned a .375" diameter rod on the lathe and drove out the front plug, drove out the dipstick tube, and had it moved and mounted in 15 minutes.
I'm really impressed with this Cummins engine; it's so easy to work on and well thought out. The symmetric oil pan was sheer genius.
The 4BT,and 6BT were designed for Industrial and Mobile equipment,they did their homework.Cummins has a long history in stationary and mobile power-systems,so they make everything "Modular" to make retrofits easier.They are in Bombadier Sno-Cats,Medium-Duty Trucks,Generators,Log-Skidders,Boats,etc... Lots of parts out there if you know what to look for.