Turbo Info, HY35s, Photos/info... Etc

[Dougal]

I figured this post would be the best place to ask these questions. I'm trying to get a handle on exactly how big these holset turbos are.

When they talk about square cm housings (16cm^2 etc) are they measuring the section area where the nozzle enters the scroll?

What size are the wheels (comp, exh major and minor diameters)?

With standard fueling, what rpm does the boost arrive and what rpm do you need for maximum boost?

Has anyone measured boost and backpressure on their cummins? I've done a few measurements on my Isuzu 4BD1T and it always comes out about 2:1 (i.e. 30psi backpressure = 15psi boost). This is non intercooled.

I know it's a tough set of questions, but any info would be helpful.

[Driverswanted]

I'll try this again with larger pics. This compares the H1C aagainst the HY35W side by side (size). Don't know why mine was red. Just came that way from an e-bay seller. To the one question about closing the wastegate, I have done that without harm. Just control the fuel delivery and you can control your maximum boost.

[Driverswanted]

two more views and the HY35W on my truck with the modified oil cooler that allowed the intake hose to be connected. My oil cooler was the vertical filter position style and was in the way. Hoses are connected to the bottom of the oil cooler adapter and the remote oil filter was moved up beside the radiator.

[57 napco]

I have tried several different turbos in my truck, hx30w9, hx35w12 24v, hy35w9, he351 04.5 and up HO dodge, hx30/hy35w9 and now run a (hx/hy35/)/hx30w9 turbo. I have a 01 hy35 compressor housing, wheel, cartrage, and a hx30 turbine wheel and turbine housing. The 24V hx35 and hy35 use the same compressor wheel. I went with this set up due to the fact my stock hx30w would overboost at the bottom and mid range and underboost at the top end. 10 psi at a level 55-60mph cruise. I could hit 29psi by 2000rpm but could not make any more then that. It felt like I was hitting a wall with it. The hy35 and hybrid seam to make about 20% more power then the hx30. The hx35 had bad compressor surge. The hy35 was a good mid range and top end turbo, but would underboost below 2200rpm. 1-2psi at 55-60 If i was pulling I would hit 26psi on a hill in 3rd but my egt's would run about 1300-1350. I would back out of it to hold 1200, but by that time i would be about 17psi and 75hp less. At 1600 I could only make about 7psi and no power. I needed a turbo with just a little more mid range. About 5psi more at 22-2400rpm, and a lot more bottom. The he351 gave me more upper to top end. Same fuel setting produced 32psi boost, but less bottom end boost. The hydrid I run now works nice, but under 1900rpm is subject to compressor surge. I have a steep hill I drive over every day. and at 1600rpm have a hard time pulling it with out getting surge. It comes in at 17psi at that speed. The higher the rpm the higher the surge limit. About 1900rpm it is no longer a problem.

I used the hx30w9 turbin housing due to the fact it is smaller than the hy35w9. The turbine wheel on the outside is also a little smaller then the hy. I just got a larger looking hx30w turbin housing and will try it. I hope by slowing down the turbine it will lower my 1500-1600 boost and raise my surge rpm limit, or get rid of it all together. My egt run about 900 at 16psi and 1600rpm. If the new turbine drops boost to 12-13psi and Egt will be about 1050 I think.

This is some data I have gotten from the different turbos I have run.

60mph cruise, 5-6%hill 55mph OD, max, non wastegated
hx30w9 9-10psi 20-22psi 29psi
hy35w9 2psi 8-9psi* 26psi
he351w9 1psi 8-9psi* 32psi
hx30/35yw9 2psi 8-9psi* 22psi
hy35/30w9 5psi 16-17psi 38-40psi
* = EGT over 1200

[Driverswanted]

That's some nice early boost figures. I was once told that you get 7 hp per psi boost. I see you're figuring about 8 hp per psi. What do you have for an exhaust sytem? Did you use the cast turbo elbow off of your turbo and where are you measuring EGT's? My EGT's are measured at number one cylinder in exhaust manifold. I also cruise no load with 6-8 psi of boost if I'm running at 70 mph and 2130 rpm. I do hills really well at 2030 rpm. I've never done any decent pulling in the best torque ranges (1650-1750 rpm). There's just not enough RPMs there to develop good boost and H.P. I've decided to make my truck a towing truck and pretty much through out the idea of optimizing fuel consumption while towing. Still, 17-18 mpg while towing 5,000 lbs. is not bad. My HY35W really starts to come alive above 2,000 rpm. I'd love to get it spooling up at 1600 rpm under load. It's just not doing it and I'm convinced it's because there's not enough flow from the lower RPM's.

[dieselcruiserhead]

two more views and the HY35W on my truck with the modified oil cooler that allowed the intake hose to be connected. My oil cooler was the vertical filter position style and was in the way. Hoses are connected to the bottom of the oil cooler adapter and the remote oil filter was moved up beside the radiator.

Can you possibly post more pics of your remote filter setup and info on where it came from/possibly parts numbers etc. Is is a Amsoil setup?

[dieselcruiserhead]

pics of a late model HX35 from a 24 valve. These will fit fine with any 4BT I think..
Notice similarity to the HY35 pics I have posted..

[57 napco]

I tried that turbo, had bad compressor surge, could not controle egt's due to it on a steep hill and broke the exhaust ports off the head. All 4 upper ears broke off the head at the same time. It only took about 45 second to ruin my day.

[dieselcruiserhead]

wow, why do you that that was, too much weight or something? Appreciate your posts good info there! curious what you mean by surging, can you descibe the symptoms?

[66gaza]

Hi 57 napco, you seem to have done a lot of messing with different combinations to get what you want. How come you have never got round to compound turbos? could give you the best of both worlds. You seem to have plenty of different turbos to try. how about a hx30 on top and a hx40 on the bottom? Keep up the good work.

Gaza

[Driverswanted]

Andre,
I was not about to go out and spend more money on a Cummins low side filter adapter so I chopped off the oil filter spin on adapter and made one that would clear my HY35W intake. The passages for oil supply and return run up and down the base plate and I was able to make this adapter and add a gasket under it. The 1/4"npt side porets are for oil pressure and turbo lubrication. The 1/2" npt ports on the bottom are for oil supply to remote filter adapter (Summit racing item) and back to 1/2"npt return side of adapter.
I will post these pics at my 1985 Ram Prospector location too.

[dieselcruiserhead]

wow that is awesome...

[bcowanwheels]

why didnt you just use a spin on oil filter adapter or go to the horizontal-mid mount filter housing ? alot of nice work though.
bob

[Driverswanted]

Thanks for the compliment. I guess the photo does not show it very well. The filter spin-on point was in the way of my 4" intake. A spin on adapter would still have been in the way. The machined part looks like a wedge because the intake hose is right up against it. Also I could not find a used oil cooler with the lower spin-on configuration and I was on a shuestring budget. Cummins wanted a lot of $ for the one you talk about. Besides that I love to invent things.

[dieselcruiserhead]

posting up a link of cut manifold and different engine options, for this thread..\
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304

[Carl Donica]

Just a heads-up for those that are interested, I just purchased a 12cm turbine housing for my h1c. I will keep everyone posted with pics and performance numbers. Maybe a month to install, (lots of overtime around here right know!), and post the first numbers so be patient with me.
Carl



1979 F-250 crew cab 4 x 4
4 bta
ZF S-42 5 speed
Borg Warner 1356 x-case
Dana 60 rear
Dana 44 front
3.55 gears
255/85R16 tires (33.5x10.5)
Hydroboost steering and brakes
Custom 40 gal. fuel tank
Much more later

[Driverswanted]

I just finished talking to a turbo shop that is mailing out a rebuild kit to me. I was wondering about how long my turbo ran before I started hearing the compressor starting to hit the side wall of the housing. It turns out that I may have had the bearing housing clocked around too far off vertical. Anything off of 12 o'clock is undesireable but no more than 10 degrees. I was at about 9:30 or 10:00 and they said that was too far off vertical and may have well been the cause of early wear. Just a heads up notice to be carefull with this.

[dieselcruiserhead]

I was aware of this too.. My plan was to cut the little alignment pin off of it and position the housing vertical with the everything else lined up.. As I do it I'll post pics..!

[1340]

So the HY35 (with non-wastegate turbine housing) is considered as the best for the 4bt. If egt's are too high can a 12cm turbine housing be put on this turbo? Would that make it an HX35?

[dieselcruiserhead]

I believe so.. I never ran into high EGTs with mine with the 12cm2 housing, even at altitude... In my runs the 4BT is a hard motor to have high EGTs with.. When mine were high is because my headgasket was going bad..

[1340]

I have another question.
How would an H1C from an early Dodge ( with a 9cm or 12 cm housing) work?
It has a 4" opening on the compresser side, and with a smaller turbine housing, would it work as good as an HX35, or HY35?
Thanks.

[swa0330]

Here is a solution for people looking to do a high mount turbo but that don't have the hood space. A 6BT manifold chopped. this came off the yahoogroup images section, http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/gro...os/browse/9c69

Very good idea, what I plan to do:

Andre,

That is my manifold. I put it in a 72 bronco. So far (very early in my testing) I am getting about 15psi. Probably could use some tightening of my turbo connections a little. It has lots of boost when it hits. I think I might start screwing with the low boost setting a little to bump the power. Motor has no smoke at all. I am using an 06-07 clutch master slave chrysler setup. Despite the moron Miley's BS, it will work with the stock bronco pedal.

[dieselcruiserhead]

cool... I ended up doing this too (chopping a 6BT manifold). I am in no hurry so at some point going to take it down to pre heat it and have the end caps TIG welded on..

[swa0330]

cool... I ended up doing this too (chopping a 6BT manifold). I am in no hurry so at some point going to take it down to pre heat it and have the end caps TIG welded on..

As I understand it you have to stick weld it with nickel rod. I didn't do it, but had a friend do it who was a master certified welder. I figured with the heat and pressure it should be done properly. At first I thought it could be TIG welded, but that is when I learned there is more to it. This guy heated and cooled the thing slowly and peened it with a hammer to make sure the welds would take. He also is a fanatical guy about quality, so maybe all that isn't necessary.

[averagef250]

TIG welding cast iron is miles above nickel welding. It also costs miles more though. The standard TIG process doesn't really work with cast iron. The part has to be heated past it's deformation temperature and kept there while welding with cast filler. This process makes a repair that's as good as new cast.

Welding a steel cap to an iron tube is not something that's really recommended. Guys have done it, it works we all know this, just saying by the general rules of cast welding it's not a good idea.

If it were me, I'd make sure I got a cheap deal on the 6BT manifold and nickel weld it with preheating, post peening (not with a hammer, but a needle scaler) and wrap it in insulation to cool very slowly. Chances are it will work if you're careful, but there's more than a small chance your end cap will go "KINK" and drop on the floor.

[swa0330]

TIG welding cast iron is miles above nickel welding. It also costs miles more though. The standard TIG process doesn't really work with cast iron. The part has to be heated past it's deformation temperature and kept there while welding with cast filler. This process makes a repair that's as good as new cast.

Welding a steel cap to an iron tube is not something that's really recommended. Guys have done it, it works we all know this, just saying by the general rules of cast welding it's not a good idea.

If it were me, I'd make sure I got a cheap deal on the 6BT manifold and nickel weld it with preheating, post peening (not with a hammer, but a needle scaler) and wrap it in insulation to cool very slowly. Chances are it will work if you're careful, but there's more than a small chance your end cap will go "KINK" and drop on the floor.

That's how mine was done as you described in the last paragraph

[redhedbronco]

Preheat to 400*, TIG using 99 nickel or 321"missle" rod, rap with hammer to align structure and put back in oven and turn off and leave it. Done with cast, never had fractures or failure.

[LincTex]

How would an H1C from an early Dodge ( with a 9cm or 12 cm housing) work?
It has a 4" opening on the compresser side, and with a smaller turbine housing, would it work as good as an HX35, or HY35?

I would also like to know, I plan to do the same with mine.
It appears to be very close in size to the HY35. (1993 6BT)

[4btFlatty]

So from my reading, a hy35 would be best for around the town stuff were as a hx35 would be best for a highway cruiser does this sound about right?

Sorry for the newb question

[dieselcruiserhead]

good questions couldn't say. . The hY35 will come on stronger and probably yield higher EGTs but both should be fine. I plan on running the Hy35 and this will be my universal turbo. I think if you HAUL a lot so you are on the freeway and have higher EGT settings the HX35 might be a hair better. But this or may not be the real world case, mostly theoretical...