Complete Me (Wiring Diagram)
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    Default Complete Me (Wiring Diagram)

    Alright guys... lets utilize some MS Paint, and help a 'special' guy out. (AKA ME!) Anywhoo.... looking for someone to connect the dots on this for me.





    SEARCH TAGS: 4BT wiring, starter, alternator, solenoid, fuel

    (right click on expanded image... save as.... edit in ms paint, reload back onto 4BT swaps)
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Red face

    haha... awesome... You just saved me from having to do that!

    I haven't wired mine yet, but from what I've read, the white wire from the fuel solenoid is the 'pull' wire and I'm assuming that is on the same circuit as your starter solenoid. Then the red wire is the 'hold' wire... I assume that needs to be hot in the run position of the ignition (I plan on using my old coil lead). Then the black is ground.

    Don't make fun... help us!
    “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.”

    Fully Restored '82 CJ-7: 1995 4bt P7100, nv4500, dana 300 (4:1) Dana 60 rear and 44 front

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    Good wiring diagrams in the Cummins Shop Manual

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul(in NY) View Post
    Good wiring diagrams in the Cummins Shop Manual

    Paul

    Which can be found where?
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Quote Originally Posted by 47Ford - 1.5Ton View Post
    Which can be found where?
    Cummins Shop Manual B3.9 & B5.9 Series Engines
    Section 13
    Electrical Equipment
    Group 13
    Electrical Wiring Diagrams
    Page 13-4

    Paul

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    if I may... I think he is asking where the best place to pick one of these manuals up is.
    “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.”

    Fully Restored '82 CJ-7: 1995 4bt P7100, nv4500, dana 300 (4:1) Dana 60 rear and 44 front

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    Quote Originally Posted by slsanders0007 View Post
    if I may... I think he is asking where the best place to pick one of these manuals up is.
    Right-o
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Quote Originally Posted by slsanders0007 View Post
    if I may... I think he is asking where the best place to pick one of these manuals up is.
    Sorry, I did not understand.

    I got mine at Cummins Northeast. Two of my friends got theirs on Ebay. The manuals are excellent and with illustrations for all procedures. The trouble shooting trees, if followed, will lead you to resolution of the issue. I would feel lost without my Shop Manual as I am not a Cummins Tech working on these engines day in and day out.

    Paul

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    Default More Information

    By your pictures I assume your engine has a 1 wire fuel soleniod so the pull in and hold in curcuits are no good for you. More on that later. I see you have a key switch, a starter with the solenoid seperated from it? and a battery and of course an alternator. Also the fuel solenoid. Am I correct on this?



    The type of soleniod that has three wires is the pull in hold in type these are a large external solenoid that mounts near the fuel pump and actuate the fuel control on the pump, I am not sure but I have only seen these on inline pumps, all the rotary pumps I have seen use the cartrage style one wire soleniod that screws into the pump itself. White is the pull in voltage or the big load that should be wired threw an intermitent solenoid off the S term of the starter, or the key switch, the terminal that supplys the cranking voltage to the starter solenoid. The red wire is the hold in which is a lower load and can be wired from the Ignition side of the key switch, wiring this from Accessory side would power the hold in solenoid while the key was in acces, radio on etc. this would cause premature failure.




    let me know about the components your wiring together as I listed them above and I will try to help.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    By your pictures I assume your engine has a 1 wire fuel soleniod so the pull in and hold in curcuits are no good for you. More on that later. I see you have a key switch, a starter with the solenoid seperated from it? and a battery and of course an alternator. Also the fuel solenoid. Am I correct on this?



    The type of soleniod that has three wires is the pull in hold in type these are a large external solenoid that mounts near the fuel pump and actuate the fuel control on the pump, I am not sure but I have only seen these on inline pumps, all the rotary pumps I have seen use the cartrage style one wire soleniod that screws into the pump itself. White is the pull in voltage or the big load that should be wired threw an intermitent solenoid off the S term of the starter, or the key switch, the terminal that supplys the cranking voltage to the starter solenoid. The red wire is the hold in which is a lower load and can be wired from the Ignition side of the key switch, wiring this from Accessory side would power the hold in solenoid while the key was in acces, radio on etc. this would cause premature failure.




    let me know about the components your wiring together as I listed them above and I will try to help.
    The normal cummins starter with a main wire and then a smaller terminal on it... I have a 'starter solenoid' with 4 posts on it... my fuel solenoid is what I beleive to be just a 1 wire (VE PUMP) and I want to say a 3 post key-start ignition switch.

    Basically I have all the piece parts that I kept from the P30 step van... if picture are needed of the starter solenoid, alternator, fuel pump, and the starter itself... I can do.
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Just tryin to see if I can upload files.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    Just tryin to see if I can upload files.
    It worked.... but its just a part number page of the 4bt with electrical components.
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Default TM Diagram

    Hope this helps a little, it is the typical wireing for a Trackmobile with the 4BT and an inline style Pump so it has the 3 wire fuel solenoid, this shows how we wire the starter very well, we use an intermitent solenoid to control S term Voltage as to not overload the keyswitch with the high amp load of the starter solenoid. I know its confusing as he77 but hope it helps.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    You can also see how to wire a three wire fuel soleniod from the diagram I posted, on your set up with the one wire you will be just using the ignition post of the key switch for the fuel soleniod.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    How I did my Ranger...

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    This is how I think I am doing mine! With your drawing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Help me out here guys..... A. what is what on the Solenoid....... and then what is what on the starter. (Yes guys this is my current motor and chassis.... now you know how much work I did to get it looking like it is now.)

    NOTE: This is always why you have a camera handy during disassembly





    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    I also run a one-wire alternator. My starter solenoid, is like, only 12" from the alternator, so I wired the output on the alternator into the first side 5/16" stud (hot all the time)

    YOU CAN GO TO THE MAIN STARTER LUG OR TO THE POS + ON THE BATTERY. IT DOESN'T MATTER as long as the output of the alternator goes to a "hot all the time" POSITIVE circuit.

    1979 F-250 4WD, NP435 trans, NP205 TX case, 3.54 gears. IP turned up, H1C from 1993 12V with 12cm housing, 3" in and out FMIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LincTex View Post
    I also run a one-wire alternator. My starter solenoid, is like, only 12" from the alternator, so I wired the output on the alternator into the first side 5/16" stud (hot all the time)

    YOU CAN GO TO THE MAIN STARTER LUG OR TO THE POS + ON THE BATTERY. IT DOESN'T MATTER as long as the output of the alternator goes to a "hot all the time" POSITIVE circuit.


    I think the way you have that drawn up though it would always bypass the solenoid..... follow red loop to right of solenoid between altenator and starter.
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Just so you know the starter solenoid isn't needed,they add those in when the key switch goes bad and when the chip trucks have the paper printers added.The other bad part is it's easy to start one from there ,may not want someone doing that.

    Scott

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    So then the components needed to start the engine are: ignition switch (key), starter, battery, fuel solenoid and then the alt for charging... correct? Mine didn't have a starter solenoid separate from what was on the starter so I didn't plan on adding one.


    Quote Originally Posted by CrewCab59 View Post
    Just so you know the starter solenoid isn't needed,they add those in when the key switch goes bad and when the chip trucks have the paper printers added.The other bad part is it's easy to start one from there ,may not want someone doing that.

    Scott
    Attached Images Attached Images
    “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.”

    Fully Restored '82 CJ-7: 1995 4bt P7100, nv4500, dana 300 (4:1) Dana 60 rear and 44 front

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrewCab59 View Post
    Just so you know the starter solenoid isn't needed,they add those in when the key switch goes bad and when the chip trucks have the paper printers added.The other bad part is it's easy to start one from there ,may not want someone doing that.

    Scott
    And so how would I wire it then without the solenoid?
    1966 Chevy C-10 Shortbed Fleetside
    5.3L LM7/4L60e LSx swap
    Project 1966 C10 LSx Build Thread - 67-72 truck forum

    **OLD**1947 Ford 1.5 Ton DRW
    Cummins 6BT P7100 - HE341 Turbo
    Eaton Fuller RT-6610 10 speed - 4 Link Rear / IFS/4whl Disc/all on air

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    Quote Originally Posted by 47Ford - 1.5Ton View Post
    And so how would I wire it then without the solenoid?
    Wire from the "Start" terminal of the key switch (green wire in diagram) directly to the "start terminal of your starter (small terminal on your starter solenoid). Suggest a minimum of 14 guage wire

    Connect directly from the "+" terminal of your battery to the large terminal on your starter solenoid. Suggest a minimum of 2 guage cable.

    Notes:

    Use a multimeter to verify things as you do the wiring:

    1. After hooking up 12 volts to the key switch, verify which terminals are "start", "run" and "accessary"

    2. If your starter solenoid has 2 small terminals, the one with resistance to ground is the "start" terminal.

    Russ
    1986 Ford F150 with 1952 Bell Telephone System service bed, 4BT, CPL 727 with 3,400 RPM governor spring, small aftercooler, AC, PS, Cruise, 1997 M5R2 5 speed overdrive transmission, Stock P215/75R15 tires, 2.75 rear axle ratio, approx 25 MPG average, Driven in 10 states in 2013, 2014 Diesel Confab - 22 states in 15 days
    http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...rtbed-with-4BT
    Still plays with trucks

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    Quote Originally Posted by slsanders0007 View Post
    So then the components needed to start the engine are: ignition switch (key), starter, battery, fuel solenoid and then the alt for charging... correct? Mine didn't have a starter solenoid separate from what was on the starter so I didn't plan on adding one.
    Wiring the pull in curcuit direct to the key switch will cause the switch to fail prematurly, I would use a relay here for sure, the extra soleniod in the start voltage curcuit isn't absolutely neccessary but your starter is so much happier with a good supply of 12V to the s terminal, but thats why its a free country we can do as we please!
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Default Nuetral Saftey.

    We are all forgeting about the saftey curcuits here, the start curcuit needs to be interupted with some type of clutch switch on the standards and of course the nuetral saftey on the autos. This is why the extra soleniod is used on the s curcuit in the Trackmobiles because as the start voltage crosses all the switches we use it looses Voltage and the ability to pull in the soleniod the harder the soleniod is pulled in the better the conection is made for the cranking voltage. The higher the cranking voltage, the lower the amps, the lower the amps the longer everything lives!
    Last edited by mongo; 10-06-2008 at 04:19 PM.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    .... the longer everything lives!
    Haha~ good point.

    Just wanted to say I got it running tonight. I had some issues with a corroded starter lead left over from the bread truck... replaced it, upped the rest of the temporary wires to 12ga, fresh charge on the batt and away she went. Started so smoothly, gave me a puff of black smoke (and a hard on).. Got so excited I ended up finishing the exhaust and putting the tub back on it tonight (all bodywork is complete already so just a matter of putting it back on). I took video and just have to post it on youtube. Pardon my shi# eating grin in the video!

    This weekend I plan on finishing fab work on the grill for the innercooler, radiator and fans and doing all the plumbing. Then I'll hook up the important gauges and drive the sh*t out of it!
    “Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.”

    Fully Restored '82 CJ-7: 1995 4bt P7100, nv4500, dana 300 (4:1) Dana 60 rear and 44 front

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    The main reason I left a starter solenoid on the inner fender is I wanted a stud to slide ring terminals over. I hate seeing people running 8 different wires off of the positive battery post. You are just asking for corrosion (and later on. troubles) when you do that. I also am using the factory ammeter shunt and cold-start air intake pre-heater from a 6BT, so my wiring has a lot more happening than just in that one picture. Also, my twin batteries are under the cab.


    Quote Originally Posted by 47Ford - 1.5Ton View Post
    I think the way you have that drawn up though it would always bypass the solenoid..... follow red loop to right of solenoid between alternator and starter.
    Yes, it is supposed to be like that. That entire circuit is hot all the time.

    It might look funny to you in the picture, but it was the cleanest way to wire it up under the hood to make it all look neater. I HATE (really, really, really hate) seeing the wiring jobs people do when they don't understand really basic and simple electrical circuits and just run wires everywhere.
    1979 F-250 4WD, NP435 trans, NP205 TX case, 3.54 gears. IP turned up, H1C from 1993 12V with 12cm housing, 3" in and out FMIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 47Ford - 1.5Ton View Post
    And so how would I wire it then without the solenoid?
    1. The stater already has a solenoid ,so why add another one to cause more problems and more wiring.
    2. The dodge trucks ,or Gm doesn't use them ,Fords used becaused the starter doesn't have one .


    The key switch has a start and run ,
    1. Run from key switch to fuel shut off.
    2. Start to the '' S "' term on starter .

    All the stock GM wiring in still in the harness ,they mave have cutsome of it ,They just added the extra solenoid .

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrewCab59 View Post
    1. The starter already has a solenoid ,so why add another one to cause more problems and more wiring.
    I did it because:

    1) to preserve the life of my ignition switch. I don't know how much current the solenoid that is on the starter draws. I didn't want it to become a factor, since it was an unknown. I knew the fender mounted solenoid would handle the current easily.

    2) Wiring didn't change for me, I left the fender solenoid right where it was with the factory switch wiring going to it. I figure if it isn't broken, don't F*** with it. Also left factory ammeter shunt circuit in place so my ammeter in the dash works fine.

    3) I needed places to put ring terminals. I can't stack them all up on the main battery lug on the starter (too far down and too big), and I sure as hell wasn't going to run everything back to the batteries themselves (they are under the cab). Leaving the solenoid on the fender made everything very nice and neat.
    1979 F-250 4WD, NP435 trans, NP205 TX case, 3.54 gears. IP turned up, H1C from 1993 12V with 12cm housing, 3" in and out FMIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrewCab59 View Post
    1. The stater already has a solenoid ,so why add another one to cause more problems and more wiring.
    2. The dodge trucks ,or Gm doesn't use them ,Fords used becaused the starter doesn't have one .


    The key switch has a start and run ,
    1. Run from key switch to fuel shut off.
    2. Start to the '' S "' term on starter .

    All the stock GM wiring in still in the harness ,they mave have cutsome of it ,They just added the extra solenoid .

    Scott
    Most of the first gen Dodge Cummins trucks used a Niehoff Ignition Relay Part Number: RL77351 between the ignition switch and the starter solenoid. Most of we first genners carry one with us just in case the 15+ year old original should fail. Cheap insurance for a $10 bill.
    Ref: http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductD...pe=493&ptset=A
    BobS

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