Detroit 4-53?
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    Default Detroit 4-53?

    4-cyl, 135 HP? Does it accept any automotive transmissions? I know of one for sale $600.
    ME AND MY DIESEL YJ ON COVER OF JP MAG MAY 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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    Use the search, they're OK but HEAVY.

    CD

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    Yes, you can use many automotive manual transmissions, but you may find that an OD one is necessary. Once you get to that point it's often easier/cheaper to use medium duty transmissions with round SAE housings.

    Depending on the transmission you want to use you may need a different flywheel housing. There are some automotive type two piece housings that easily use old GM (think SM420 and 465), and some ford transmissions with the right adapters. You can also get some SAE to automotive adapters, but often hard to find or expensive if new.
    If it is an industrial application most often it has a round SAE housing, most commonly #3, or #2, occasionally #4. You may also need a different flywheel and clutch, again depends on what you have now.

    If industrial application likely it has a variable speed governor, and you'll need (or want) a limiting speed for a vehicle application.

    Depending on condition that engine is either a fair deal, or not worth it. But more importantly, is a low HP 4-53 going to be much use to you? You can get some more HP with injectors, but not a whole bunch.

    If you are serious about a 4-53 powered vehicle, skip the plain old 4-53, and search for a 4-53T, the turbo and all the other internal upgrades that come with a true 4-53T make it a much better choice.
    You can expect a factory 175 HP for a 4-53T, and 185 HP from a Silver 4-53T. They say 200-225 is not hard to get, but I don't know the details there (yet).

    Got any pictures?

    Grigg
    1948 Chevrolet 6400 (2 ton) updated with a Detroit Diesel Silver 4-53T and Roadranger RTO-6610 --click for all my pictures--
    "First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-

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    Default Over engineered noise makers

    The 4-53 was a state of the art engine in the 1950's, quality parts are getting very hard to come by and they are just so heavy! I wouldn't recommend using one unless you really like the noise cause there are so many other engine that would be so much better!
    Last edited by mongo; 10-28-2008 at 08:31 PM.
    Should I build it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    The 4-53 was a state of the art engine in 1950
    How about 1958 when the 53 series was introduced? (not 1950)
    The basic idea, the inline 71 series, was first offered for sale in 1938. And remains basically unchanged still today. The military still purchases new Detroit two cycles, and a recent press release says they plan to use two cycle Detroit diesels till 2050, that's 112 years after their introduction.
    They must have gotten something right back in 1938...

    They can make some noise though...
    Here are some videos of a 4-53T with no muffler http://www.youtube.com/user/Grigg3 I'll have a muffler and proper exhaust in a few weeks, it should still sound good, but a little less irritating.

    I would not call them heavy, not for the HP, a 4-53T weighs approx 1,200 lb and 175 HP. A 4-53T should be in something 3/4 ton or stronger though.

    Grigg
    1948 Chevrolet 6400 (2 ton) updated with a Detroit Diesel Silver 4-53T and Roadranger RTO-6610 --click for all my pictures--
    "First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-

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    Default 8 Years?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, I know you will but the 53 series technology is exactly the same as the 71 series right? I ment to say in the 50's and not specificly 1950 so I am sorry for that.

    A recent press release that I read said the Government was going to use 700 Billion Dollars of our hard earned money to bail out the stock market, not exactly what I would deem a good idea! Shouldn't our government be held to the same emmision standards as the automakers are? You can't tell me that a 71 series DDA is as clean as these new engines, nor is it as effient.

    Yes they do make some noise, we use a 6v53 with twin 3" stacks in one of our old Trackmobiles and to ship it we take the stacks off and let it breath from two 3" pipes straight off the manafolds, lets say I am not the most popular person in the shop when I run her up to Governed speed and hold her there! It actually hurts yours ears it is so loud.

    Any how the 53 series was a good engine but power to wieght ratio when comparing it to the 4bt, the 453 is an anchor! IMO.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    ...
    Any how the 53 series was a good engine but power to wieght ratio when comparing it to the 4bt, the 453 is an anchor! IMO.
    Just trying to suss out some facts here. My own feelings about Detroits aside, I do think they lie on the bottom side of the performance curve for their weight. But I'd like to make a comparison here to see how much. I don't see them anywhere near "anchor" rating.

    The top factory rating for non-marine use for the 4-53T Silver is 185 HP. The 4BT is 130 HP if I am correct? So from the factory, for non-marine use, the top rated 4-53 has 42% more power than the top rated 4BT.

    Or we could use the much more common 175 HP 4-53T vs the much more common 120 HP 4BTA and use 46% more power for the 4-53.

    What's the weight of a 4BTA? Did some searching and found 700-750, so I'll split the difference and go with 725.
    Numbers for the 4-53 cross a much larger range as I think folks tend to underestimate what their weight is but I think 1200 lb is being fair.

    So we have the 4-53T at 66% heavier and 46% more powerful. Not that far off in power. And these are similar rpm, the 175 and 185 HP figures from Detroit are at 2500 rpm.

    Ken
    Last edited by IHWillys; 10-28-2008 at 10:14 AM.

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    Default Anchor!

    The 453 is an Anchor! The 4-53T at 66% heavier and 46% more powerful, you said it yourself. Not to mention the availability of parts is getting worse every day. I had a DDA Tech tell me just yeterday that when he changes injectors in a 4-53 he orders 8 and hopes to get 4 good ones, that is from DDA, Aftermarket parts are available, but if DDA quality is bad what do you think aftermarket is? Like I said IMO the 4-53 is an anchor!

    The T and the Silver series where a last ditch effort to get the power to wieght ratio of an obsolete engine more in line with engines of the era, I was at one time a die hard Detroit fan but I am sorry, they are over engineered noise makers!

    DDA = 6.857 lbs : 1 HP = 175 Total HP 1200 lbs

    Cummins = 6.590 lbs : 1 HP = 110 Total HP 725 lbs

    Above is from your figures, I think 1200lbs for the 4-53T is on the light side.
    but I might be wrong.
    1300 Lbs according to these guys http://www.adieselengine.com/new_page_1.htm

    DDA = 7.428 lbs : 1HP = 175 Total HP 1300 lbs

    Using the cummins ratio with the DDA weight that engine should make, 197 HP

    Not to mention the larger cooling system required by the DDA, (do not over heat it you WILL fry an "o" ring!)
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Not to jump in between ya guys but i just built a tractor with a 4-53t and we own certified scales at the shop. MINE weighed 1156 pounds. --Jimmy--

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    If the military really is still buying Jimmy 2 strokes it must be for some very limited use. The US military does voluntarily comply with EPA standards and has the official stance that they will only deviate from that for wartime necessity. When I was working on them the parts were crap. The injectors had a very high fail rate. Cylinders like to fill with coolant. Saw quite a few sucked valves as well.

    I worked on 16V92TI's in the Navy. The Navy no longer has Jimmy 2 strokes in active duty ships. They've all been jerked out and replaced by 4 stroke electronic Cats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IHWillys View Post
    So we have the 4-53T at 66% heavier and 46% more powerful. Not that far off in power. And these are similar rpm, the 175 and 185 HP figures from Detroit are at 2500 rpm.

    Ken
    Good comparisons, I agree with Ken, A Detroit 4-53T has more factory HP than 4BT Cummins, it weighs a bit more, and is a very good engine. However, they don't seem to have the potential for cheap fast HP like the Cummins has, but when you have plenty to start with that's not such a concern. Also by not having to work real hard to make HP Detroits seem to last a good long time.

    My info shows the 175 HP 4-53T at 2,800 RPM, peak torque at 1,800 RPM
    185 hp Silver 4-53T is at 2,500 RPM, and peak torque approx 435 lb ft at 1,500.
    I have a spec sheet for a non silver military 4-53T with a factory 200HP at 2,800 RPM, but I can't tell what the internal differences are. This is the highest factory HP 4-53T I know of, and it's not silver.

    Grigg
    Last edited by Grigg; 11-23-2008 at 09:14 PM. Reason: reduce the confusion on torque numbers
    1948 Chevrolet 6400 (2 ton) updated with a Detroit Diesel Silver 4-53T and Roadranger RTO-6610 --click for all my pictures--
    "First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-

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    Here is the article on two cycles for the military.
    http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2...web1441044.htm

    The heavy tractors used to transport tanks are still powered by 8V92's. There are a few other two cycle Detroit applications in the military.

    I too find it a little odd that the military still purchases new engines that we as civilians can't buy for what most say are environmental reasons. Don't know all the details, but it is a little fishy.

    Grigg
    1948 Chevrolet 6400 (2 ton) updated with a Detroit Diesel Silver 4-53T and Roadranger RTO-6610 --click for all my pictures--
    "First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-

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    Default Proof!

    I told yenz I used to Love these Goofy Engines!!


    6V53 on its side after we had an accident with the crane


    The Same 6V53 Rebuilt and installed into a 4500TM "That is for sale by the way"


    A 4-53T Silver Rebuilt and installed into a 4200TM.

    We try to repower our units as often as we can but some do get the original engines rebuilt and reused as in the cases above. I have rebuilt over 30 Trackmobiles, most of the rebuilds used the 53 series DDA in one form or another. After everything I have seen and the relibility factor from DDA to the B series Cummins, that is all we use now, I would never use the 53 Series for an engine conversion, but I know it would hold your position on the Ohio river pretty well!


    This is off subject but I thought you guys would like to see it, It is an 11TM the largest Trackmobile made, not DDA powered though, This old Girl now has a big cam Cummins in her, Thats me on the left.
    Last edited by mongo; 10-28-2008 at 08:28 PM.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Default Run Off?

    With all that we have said aside have you ever heard a 2 stroker run away, I have yet to wittness the sound but have repaired the aftermath, I am told its very intresting!
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo View Post
    The 453 is an Anchor! The 4-53T at 66% heavier and 46% more powerful, you said it yourself. ...
    I wrote those numbers but we disagree on the anchor status.

    Great pics Mongo, and, pardon my ignorance, what is a TrackMobile? Ie, what are they used to do?

    Ken

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    Default Trackmobile

    Ken, We then have agreed to disagree .

    A Trackmobile is a piece of bi-mobile equipment that can move around on its rubber tires and drive just like a truck, then it is lowered to the rail and can be used to move railcars around. Trackmobiles are used by various companies to make all there rail moves without having to rely on the local rail roads to do the switching. They are small enough to get around on road tires, and to get the traction needed for moving the railcars, wich could wiegh 100's of tons we use a wieght transfer coupler that actually picks up the railcar that the Trackmobile is coupled to. We borrow the weight of the car to gain what is called tractive effort, just like adding wieght to the trunk of that rear wheel drive car in the winter! Trackmobiles have been around a while, we have used a host of engines from the 4-53, 4BT, 6BTA, and latest the 6.7QSB. I have worked on them for over 14 years, we have recently introduced new technology into the feild that links all of our electronic control modules into one network and let me tell you, these things are unreal! We can match the engine output to the load and track conditions, the technology is very impressive. The large Trackmobile pictured is a 1980 11TM in a Sunoco Refinery in New Jersey, The other two units pictured are ones that I rebuilt from the frame up in our shop in Bridgeville, PA. Trackmobiles are one of those pieces of equimpment nobody ever sees but has something to do with everyone. For instance, all of the raw materials that arrive at Hershey chocolate by rail is moved with one of three Trackmobiles, One of which I rebuilt from the ground up. The other two are serviced by myself and our field technicians in the area. So chances are if you ever ate a Hersheys Chocolate product, you too have been effected by a Trackmobile!

    The picture is a 4650TM at the Norfolk Southern yard in Altoona used to move locos from one area of the shop to another, it is pictured on the turn table in there yard.
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    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    I think you all missed a glairing point that grigg pointed out..... His 4-53T detriot is making 1500 lb-ft of torque at the 175hp level.... My 6bt is only making 530 lb-ft at that horsepower level... yah they're heavy.... But when you've got that kind of TORQUE, who cares?

    I for one couldn't give a crap about HP... It's all in the torque and that's what I'm out to build in my project.......
    -Matt

    1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD Turbo Diesel - 240,000mi
    1995 Chevrolet 1500 4x2 6.5L Turbo Diesel - 168,000mi - Soon to be Cummins
    1988 Chevy C3500 Cummins; Billet Auto, Twin Turbos, and lots of other stuff.. shooting for 650+ HP
    1950 Chevrolet Loadmaster 2ton - Future 2wd Pulling truck

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    Default 1500 foot pounds?

    I was always told if its too good to be true it probably is!, I DO NOT agree with your numbers. Granted they make good torque but I just do not see how 1500 lbft from his engine is possable. Show me how to do it.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    Default Detroit Diesel 4-53

    The Detroit 4-53, model 5047-5340 puts out 170hp and develops 402lbs ft of torque @ 1800 RPM. It weighs 1230lbs.

    Here's a copy of the original brochure from Detroit. Powerline does sell many of the parts. I am not affiliated with them or have purchased from them.

    http://tinyurl.com/6lqr29


    I for one like the sound of the engine and look forward to purchasing a government surplus in the future.


    Hopefully the misinformation is corrected. Good luck,

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue

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    I don't think I said anything about that much torque.. Wow, that would be nice though..

    I agree, torque on a 4-53T is slightly over 400 according to the spec sheets, depending on which version you read/with what injectors.

    I may have been confused, or I may have confused you, when I said that a regular 4-53T makes it's peak torque at 1,800 rpm, and the Silver version makes it at 1,500 rpm.

    The silver 4-53T is 185 HP at 2,500 rpm, and 435 lb ft at 1,500 rpm. I just reread the spec. sheet.
    And BigBlue's numbers are correct for the 4-53T truck version, Just double checked that spec. sheet too.

    Grigg
    Last edited by Grigg; 11-23-2008 at 09:03 PM.
    1948 Chevrolet 6400 (2 ton) updated with a Detroit Diesel Silver 4-53T and Roadranger RTO-6610 --click for all my pictures--
    "First, get a clear notion of what you desire to accomplish, and then in all probability you will succeed in doing it..." -Henry Maudslay-

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    That sounds more like! If the old 2 strokers made that much Torque, I would be using one, but?!? The 4BT is for me.
    Should I build it?
    1998 Ranger 2wd
    1987 OM603 & Auto trans
    Dazed and confused?!?!

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    If you were curious about a 4-53 without turbo.. A 1976 model with C50 injectors makes 140 HP at 2,800 rpm and 282 lb ft of torque at 1,800 rpm.

    Grigg

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    I had mine run away twice this week it is a engine out of a track king from N.Y. rail road-it has n50 injectors-,had to use vice grip to stop first time,I had the valve cover off second the cover was on and I was in the cab,in 4th gear of a 4speed with the brakes to the floor pushing as hard as possible it smoked 36 inchs tires and slid the truck across the shop floor about 4 feet before it shut down--

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NRaqgab0_w

    heres a 453 running way hard!!

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    Wow ! What an old thread ........I thought Mongo might have been the biracial dude that showed up in Bloomsburg,Pa. at one of the 2 Diesel Confabs hosted there by Joe Scopic . I believe he showed his Perkins powered Ford ,and when he raised his hood ,the engine was bathed in black oil after driving in probably 200 plus miles from the Avella area . Some years after that the wife and I were visiting friends in the Avella area,Anita and Bill Kolesar, and the dude was driving by,noticed my green '70 GMC stepside PU hooked to a travel trailer,backed up and we had a reunion right there in that little village . He was still running the Perkins ,although I suppose he had freshened it up to cure the blowby ! Bill drove the carryall machinery hauler for Paris Construction,so when I see the Trackmobile I suspected Mongo might be working for Paris as well, as Avella is a little SW of Bridgeville [Pittsburg] . Kinda realize he was trying to get the board stirred up ,probably during a dead time . Was about to chastise him for bashing on this thread ,as I don't see anybody doing that on any other threads .
    Joe Scopic was another old guy that despised Detroits ,saying they were dinosaurs when they hit the initial market . Joe liked his Isuzu's and loved the economy runs we used to hold at the confabs . That when we'd fuel up to top the fuel tanks,weigh the chassis with driver and passenger[navigator],drive 50 miles or so on a scenic route ,top off the fuel again, then divide the miles[kilometers] into the gallons[liters] and get a resulting decimal # . Lowest decimal resulted in best economy ,Joe liked to win ! I'd won 3rd and 4th in several runs in the US and Ontario,Canada with my "dirty" Detroit .

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    An economy run sounds like a ton of fun. Except I have this problem with my foot being glued to the boards..... ah well be interesting to see what kinda mileage i'd get balls-out.

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    Yes,you can just go along for the ride ............But if you really want to see just how good your rig is compared to others,you'll drive it like you have a fresh egg between your foot and the throttle !

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