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1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 4bt

142K views 263 replies 57 participants last post by  Harrinad 
#1 ·
So it begins. After Lots of reading and research and help from the 4btswaps guys. I am starting my 4bt Swap in my 86 wagoneer.



The Plan is as follows:

4bt
47rh with Adapter and starter from a 1995 ish Dodge Ram cummins.
NP241 transfer Case
Stock Axles

Thats as far as I am willing to guess for now.

Removed front Clip Today as well as preped the 360 and Driveline to be pulled.

As soon as I figure out how to post pics, I will

Thanks to everyone who helped in the Decision making.....


Andy
 
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#2 ·
Scroll down below your text box to "manage attachments"

You can't put that many pics on, maybe 20, so you should immediately buy a star from Andre for $20, so WE can look at all the pics you can take.

Randy
 
#5 ·
That's gonna make a NICE jeep, real clean, nice front bump and winch mount.

The biggest problem with the Grand Waggy's was the 360/401 Boat Anchor and 9MPG. Everything else was good machinery.

Looks like you might have to do something creative with the heater, but I'd definately keep the AC.

Randy
 
#9 ·
I worked on a Grand Cherokee for a friend of mine (about the same vintage Jeep as yours) and I have to agree with other posters.

Yanking that POS engine is the best you can do. The engine itself may not be the biggest POS, but all the anciliary crap that was bolted to it made it so.

Oh, and 6-9mpg without the power that should go with it; BOOOO!:tongue:


Yours should be a real nice ride when you are done. Good luck.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Well, which manifold do you have on your motor?

If the turbo is low rear mounted between #3 & #4, you should be able to flip it over and mount the turbo high between #1 & #2. You would have to take the turbo exhaust housing off and rotate everything so the oil in is on the top and the drain is on the bottom like it is now.

If your turbo is mounted between #2 & #3 high, then you may need to trade for one of the manifolds mentioned above.

Dusty is working on a Cherokee Chief and he has just run into this issue and has some pics up of his solution. Of course, he posted that about 2 min before I finished typing....
 
#13 ·
Well, which manifold do you have on your motor?

If the turbo is low rear mounted between #3 & #4, you should be able to flip it over and mount the turbo high between #1 & #2. You would have to take the turbo exhaust housing off and rotate everything so the oil in is on the top and the drain is on the bottom like it is now.

If your turbo is mounted between #2 & #3 high, then you may need to trade for one of the manifolds mentioned above.

Dusty is working on a Cherokee Chief and he has just run into this issue and has some pics up of his solution.
Here is a post where I took different manifold and turbos and show where the turbo hits the valve covers and fuel line. Now the turbos you use will play a big roll where you can and what manifold you use . The manifolds are all T 3 flanges .

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4366&highlight=flip+manifolds

Scott
 
#14 ·
Other Options

I havent purchased a motor or tranny yet. So i have time to pick the best configuration for me. Could you custom fab a tubular exhaust?
Or are there other considerations?
 
#16 ·
hopefully the pictures in my thread offer you some visual details. if you need any measurements i'll be glad. wish you were closer so you could eyeball it all. with a battery in the front like i have i couldnt find the room to mount the turbo any further forward. though if i had the snap ring pliers i could have had rotated things a little more and maybe move the turbo a little further forward but i am extremely happy with how things have come out on my conversion.


as of now my under hood is complete minus the air filter intake. i have the ruf plastic one in there right now i plan to make the metal tube intake i just havent gotten to that yet.
 
#17 ·
Baby Steps

Well tonight I dropped the first drop of $$$ into the bucket. As usual I havent started at the Proverbial beginning but in the middle. I picked up an adapter, flywheel, and reman starter off of a 1998 dodge Cummins.

And Where did all the engines go??? There havent been any for sale on ebay or in the classifieds (at least reasonably priced.)

ANdy
 
#19 ·
Kinda stalled right now. Got too many projects all the sudden but I have made some buying progress. I think I have a tranny now, and I am considering having a 4bter take over the project for me. So we will see....Ill get some pics up as soon as it looks different.

Thanks for the interest.


Andy
 
#20 ·
some progress







Got an Engine and Tranny

Engine is a ve pumped 4bta

tranny is a 95 47rh

I need dipsticks for both, any suggestions?

Are all the dodge ram tranny dipsticks the same on this vintage of Ram??
 
#21 ·
Another Question, At first glance it appears that this alternator is internally regulated and therefore would be a plug in unit in my jeep. Does that sound reasonable??

In a week I will be cleaning, assembling the engine and tranny, painting and hopefully test starting it on the ground.
 
#22 ·
So you're shitting us right? you are "actually" gonna put that engine in an airplane aren't you? you sly dog. That will be a first here at 4btswaps. An airplane with a 4BT!!!!

Should swing a 12' prop, but only at 500 rpms.

Randy
 
#24 ·
Hahah, No but that is worth some thought. The engine is in my hangar for the sake of space.

I havent been back home since I picked up the engine so I havent done a thing, but Ill be back in a week and I hope to get some things accomplished.

I want to start the engine but I dont want to fill the tranny with fluid yet, will it hurt the tranny to run it for a bit in park with minimal fluid?? Any other ideas?
 
#25 ·
I would NOT run it without fluid. the torque converter needs it. I have seen trans' cacked because the guy didn't fill the T/C first and ran the thing. By the time it gets fluid it has already done the damage.

Randy
 
#26 ·
Transfer case ideas

I need some more input from you gurus.

I am planning on a Np241 transfer case to simplify parts lists, but I have been considering an NP208. What are my other options for a dodge 47rh transmission and drivers side drop?
 
#27 · (Edited)
The Dodge trans uses the standard assymetrical 6 bolt pattern.

The 241 would work, you could flip a D300, use an Atlas, or a Stak. There is also the left hand ford application 205, but it is kind of overkill for a Waggy..

I believe someone makes a left hand D300 case now, so that could be the best option. Add a 4 lo kit and you have got it beat. It is relatively compact, very strong, and would certainly be up to anything you could dish out with a waggy. It is probably the cheapest "custom" solution out there.

I believe the Jeep 208 that came in the Waggys has a center Diff which makes having lockers front and rear absolutely manditory, because if you slip a tire everything just spins, and you go nowhere. I remember pulling a guy in my club off the Millers Jeep trail, becasue of this problem.

If you are planning on using the Jeep on road alot then selectable lockers are going to be better. Also relasing hubs in the front are a must if you have a front locker, as you won't be able to steer it on the street with a detroit and full time hubs.

Look at JB Conversions, Lo-Max or search left hand D300 and I'm sure you will find something. Also JB Fabrication from here at the site, makes the nicest twin stick controls for a D300 I have seen,

Randy
 
#31 ·
More stuff done

OK Made some more baby steps this week.
Cleaned the engine up,
pulled unused sensors,
installed wagoneer senders,
bolted flywheel on,
mated transmission,
Cleaned up the wiring on the Wagon,
Researched wiring to find power during start and run,
Got a dipstick for engine and tranny at the local places,
And got the Tranny wiring harness modded for using the original wagon plugs and loom.





I would like to run it before starting to fab up mounts. What do you guys feel about running a soft line between the tranny cooler ports, checking fluids and firing it up??

Next hurdles are the turbo/firewall/heater core problem, soon to be followed by where to mount the original AC compressor. I think the a high turbo will need at least a body lift but I will probably need it anyway.

But I should get between the rails first I guess.
 
#32 ·
More thoughts

I was thinking bout the Turbo interference problem. how about a flip my manifold and leave the turbine side forward, and take the exhaust down the front of the engine and underneath. That would give me clearance over my valve cover and solve the exhaust fire wall problem.

Discuss???
 
#33 ·
If you want to test fire it, fill the cooling system with water and loop a hose from the water pump inlet to the thermostat outlet. The trans cooler line looping idea is good.

Make sure the engine is secure before you start it.


If you have room to put the turbo elsewhere (in your case lower) then go for it.

Do you have a different exhaust manifold to put the turbo on, or are you talking about turning the turbo 180* where it is?


Make sure the oil port on the CHRA points down and the oil will drain freely or the bearings in the turbo will fry (I figure you know that, but I bring it up as it bears mention).
 
#38 ·
thanks for the starting Info. Im thinking about taking the manifold and turbo just like it is and fliping 180 deg. Then clocking the oil lines and running the exhaust forward.

What say you???
 
#37 ·
Yeah, ill get in the Rails first and go from there. I thought I had a pretty good idea with going forward on the Exhaust, what are the hangups?

I see it on alot of the turbo Gassers and it go tme thinkin, plus I want to put a snorkel on it (for cool points) and that would put the intake on the correct end near the windshield.
 
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