4-53 Detroit in an Excursion

[77gmcserria]

Would it be possable to put a 4cyl detriot in a Ford Excursion? The engine bay seems to be large enough, but with a vehical with all that electronic junk in it is it possable to make it work?

[Grigg]

It will fit yes.. but obviously not a bolt in.

A friend has a 53 series Detroit in a 2005 F250, somehow the electric stuff worked out, but I bet it was a job.

Grigg

[77gmcserria]

I was thinking of puting one in an 01 F250 with high miles gas motor. But then agian I don't know if it would pass inspection.

[jim in n.y.]

I know here in N.Y. it won't pass inspection legally. '96 and up has to have all of the original factory installed emissions equipment and be functioning properly.There are some ways around this on originally equipped diesel vehicles. Also, from what I was told by a big wig in N.Y State Dept. of Transportation that any vehicle that does not have it's original engine or equivalent is in violation of Federal E.P.A. laws but thankfully is not really enforced. Something about a law passed in 1986 that calls it vehicle tampering. Don't know if it's true or what the details are . I suppose it could be researched on line though.

[77gmcserria]

What would be an ideal manual transmission to me mated to the 4-53? I will have a devorced t-case. A 4-53 I was looking at has a clark 5 speed OD with an OD (5th Gear) of .78:1 (22% OD). Would I need a diffrent trans? I would be doing highway and town driving and some towing of a camper/single car trailer.

[jim in n.y.]

The Clark s speed O/D would be an ok choice . As a matter of fact they were a factory option behind 4-53T's and I have owned two of them so equipped. I have a 4-53T for sale right now with a Clark 280 VO 22 , 5 spd. overdrive on it.
On a Detroit the more gears the better. Since you already have the trans I would use it . Overdrive is mandatory, in my opinion, for the type of driving you describe . The Clark 1st gear is pretty low so it should be helpful for starting with a heavy load or tight manuvering. I'll try to dig up the gear ratios .
The transmission is only part of the equasion.You need to consider the tire size , rear axle ratio and highway speeds you want to travel at. Keep the engine between 1800 and 2200 for optimum performance .

[jim in n.y.]

Any information I can find on the 280VO 22 says the ratios are this: 5.98,3.5,1.86,1.0 and .80. I always thought they had a lower 1st gear and the O/D ratio was the last two digits or 22% ( .78). So , I guess I'm wrong about the 22 number. The lower 1st gear was in the non O/D version at 7.48.
Hope this helps, Jim.

[77gmcserria]

I don't have a transmission, but I think the one I was looking at was on ebay, so I think it may have been yours if you had it up there.

[jim in n.y.]

Hi , yes I have a 4-53T with a Clark trans on ebay right now. Come take it off my hands so I have room in my garage to work!! Ha Ha!

[Grigg]

The engine Jim has for sale with the OD transmission, crossmembers and all is a pretty good setup for a swap. It has all the Detroit parts you need for a vehicle, as it came from one.
It is configured pretty nice with blower on the left side, exhaust on the other, and it even has the flat back/no accessory drive flywheel housing that makes fitting in a vehicle a little simpler. The oil pan can be turned around for a rear sump with the addition of an oil pickup extension tube and a few gaskets.

For my Detroit conversion project I started with the exact same engine and miscellaneous small parts from a similar GM truck, but with a different transmission.

Grigg

[77gmcserria]

Yes I agree, it is an ideal engine for a swap. But my main concern would be is that trans sutable enough for my usage? I was thinking about using a Road Ranger 10 speed but a 10 speed seems to be overkill.

[Grigg]

I think the trans he has would be a good start if nothing else, the OD is important for an on the road vehicle.
You'll probably like it, but If you want/need more gears or a different trans later on after you have driven it a bit you can easily swap. It has an SAE #2 flywheel housing, which is the same as the small Roadrangers use, as well as a number of other transmissions.

Grigg

[77gmcserria]

Okay, know what divorced t-case would hold up to the torq of that engine trans combo?

[jim in n.y.]

I wish I could help you on what transfer case to use. Unfortunately I don't know much about the choices available.
All I know is probably the obvious to most people. The divorced ones were for older applications and usually cast iron. Then there is the question of what side the front axle is driven from . I would think any of the older ones from a 1 ton should hold up behind the Detroit.
Good luck, Jim.

[77gmcserria]

What about the exhaust, do they make catalytic converters like gas motors for emissions or do they just use mufflers?

[Grigg]

I've never seen a catalytic converter used with a two cycle Detroit, but I'm sure you can run one if you want to.

[77gmcserria]

What would the average cost of a jacobs brake system cost for a 4-53T and how does it operate?

[Grigg]

Here's a little more info on Jake brakes for 53 series from a previous thread:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showth...ght=jake+brake

Here Jacobs explains how they work:
http://www.jakebrake.com/support/faqs.php#FAQ11

In short they open the exhaust valves near TDC on the compression stroke (every stroke for a 2 cycle) no fuel is injected, and the compressed air is dumped out the exhaust. The work of compressing this air in the first place is what shows the truck down. Dumping it out the exhaust without letting it help to push the piston back down is the key to how a compression brake works.

You can buy new Jacobs model 53A master and slaves to use on a 4-53T, call a Detroit dealer and inquire. I know Timothy at Leid diesel could get them, or can get you a current price and availability, 717-776-7725 They are not cheap, last I heard about $630 per cylinder. Used ones are often reasonable, but you have to find them. Also need a buffer switch for another $100, the special valve bridges, longer rocker arm bolts, supposedly different fuel jumper lines, and to make or find a valve cover spacer or stretch a valve cover to fit over them.

Grigg

[77gmcserria]

With that price maybe I can add on later if possable.

[Grigg]

Yes, easy to add later if you find the parts. Be sure to plan on an extra 2" or so for hood clearance with the raised valve cover.

[lumpdog]

For a divorced tcase you should either use an older Ford 205 unit, or a newer divorced 271 from a Topkick or Kodiak. I personally would use the newer unit, although it will probably cost you more than the 205. But it is quiet, strong, and has a better low gear than a 205.

[lumpdog]

Also, since the excursion should have a 271 tcase in it already, you maybe able to just change the input gear from a Chevy case and be golden.

The chevy divorced unit is just a married case with a different input. The front mounting plate bolts right to the 6 round pattern on the front.


After thinking about it more, I think this route would be your best option.

[77gmcserria]

Did they also use that T-Case in SuperDutys?

[77gmcserria]

My main concern is emissions and all of the electronics. Will all of the electronics not matter if I use a Excursion or a SuperDuty (99-09) its still has all of that electronic stuff. Would it be best to make a new harness or try to adapt parts from the current harness? Or maybe going with an older truck that was pre all of the computer stuff would be better.

[lumpdog]

If you are worried about passing emissions, then I am guessing that this is not going to be a good swap for you.

The emissions aspect is one that you will need to take up with the State Transportation department to see what is legal for you to do.

[lumpdog]

The 271 is used in GM, Dodge, and Ford trucks. Ford had it in 99 with the introduction of the Superduty, Dodge used it from 03 on I believe, and GM from 01 on in the HD's.

The Topkicks actually used a 273, which is just the electronic shift version of the 271. Most parts will interchange on these.

[oshpunit987]

What would be an ideal manual transmission to me mated to the 4-53? I will have a devorced t-case. A 4-53 I was looking at has a clark 5 speed OD with an OD (5th Gear) of .78:1 (22% OD). Would I need a diffrent trans? I would be doing highway and town driving and some towing of a camper/single car trailer.

I used one of these Clarks behind a 2 valve 3-71N (no power house) for about 10 years and my main gripe about it was being slow up thru 3 gear. It turned 2100 RPM and I had a 3.21 axle. I pulled a camper and on the hills I almost always had to go to 3rd gear and went about 30MPH. I figured the wide open speeds at 10 in 1st, 17 in 2nd, 33 in 3rd, 61 in 4th and 77 in 5th. If you used a 53 series at 2800 RPM and 4.10 axle you would get about the same speeds as I did with the 3-71. If you run empty most of the time it would probably be OK. I swapped the 3-71 for a 4-53T with NP540 and 3 speed auxillary and it runs much better.

[77gmcserria]

I could always use a, aux. trans if need be. I could also use a diffrent gear ratio.

[77gmcserria]

Well it looks like I will have to get a truck 1995 or older so I don't have to pass emissions just the safety test.

[Grigg]

Where are you?