2003 F150 Supercrew 4.6 2WD Conversion to 4BT
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Thread: 2003 F150 Supercrew 4.6 2WD Conversion to 4BT

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    Registered User brobrad's Avatar
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    Default 2003 F150 Supercrew 4.6 2WD Conversion to 4BT

    I got a start on the project. i stripped down the front cab. I didn't go any further in hopes of a buyer wanted to hear the motor or shift out the tranny. If i don't get a bite soon, i'll just video starting, running, shifting etc. Found some pretty sorry body repair work on the front stub. I knew it was reworked, but someone didn't bother to get it all line up right in the front. Instead they scabbed on the bumper brackets with the use of some bolts welded in to fill the gaps. It is bent in front of the steering framework, but it may be trouble in teh long run. I may take it to a frame shop to see what they say later on. Any suggestions there appreciated.

    Notice the bolt on the passenger side welded in and on the above view you can see that the brackets are offset. You can't see the offset when it is all together, but it is there.


    ABOVE WAS THE START-- TODAY I FINISHED TAKING MOTOR OUT

    I got the engine and tranny out today. There are some do's and don'ts. Do take the throttle body and starter off. The most difficult bolt was from teh passenger side motor mount. I took it out one click at a time. If i had know i was goning to remove the starter, it would not have been so bad. Don't think it will happen in a couple of hours. I almost cut the (pardon the lack of the term) the bar that goes across the front of the truck that is above the core support. The Dodge trucks have that portion of the body that is bolted in. I started to cut it and weld on a flange to reinstall it later, but avoided it thus far. i may do it when i go back in with the 4bt, but my welder is not all that great. the wire feed is eratic. Anyway, i'm still not sure if ill order mounts from Autoworld Montana or reuse the gel mounts from the 4bt. I found an intercooler from a frito-lay van that is top in and out, but i don't know if i would ever find the intake elbow that would fit the tubing. It sure does feel good to have it out and progress underway.


    I would pos the pics, but have not more space to do so.

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    BTW, i plan to use a 47RH or a A518. I know lock up makes abou 3% difference in fuel/power to the ground, but i don' have the cash to get a 47rh and a518 is sitting by the truck. I plan to put a rebuild kit in the a518 and get a good non-lock-up TC.

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    Went out to my dad's place and picked up my 4bt, radiator, and intercooler off of the old 91.5 dodge. Not sure what is going to work there as the stock Ford radiator is too wide as is the one out of the fritolay van. I'd really like to get an intercooler that pipes from the top or strait out of the sides so i could use the 2.5" piping. I took a few pics of the setup. I'm not sure what turbo i have. The plate was gone off of the housing. it is oriented up and looks to be about 2.5" piping. I don't see anything that looks like a wastegate. I'm not sure of the advantages or disadvantages either way on that. Auto world doesn't have time to get to my motor mount brackets very soon so i will fab them locally.

    Questions: 1) should i pursue another turbo- i'm gonna put a 3200rpm spring in and turn the fuel up a little. I may add bigger injectors, but not very likely.
    2) I know you can't tell much about the pulley's up front, but what about getting my ford alternator and AC compressor in there? Recommendations?
    3) How large of an intercooler will i need. I've found some on ebay that are 2.5" piping that are good for 60psi.
    4) Should i use a 35 or 60 psi boost gauge?

    I can't post anymore pics on here, but you can check out my thread at cumminsforum.com to see pics it you need to in order to answer my questions. BTW- i'm so glad the speed of this sight has picked back up.
    http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/cu...supercrew.html

    Thanks

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    You can post the same photobucket links on here the same way that you added them over there. Here's one of them showing that you have a 120 HP 4bta with the jacketed water aftercooler [JWAC]

    BobS
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    NRA Life-Patron Member
    90 D0dge W250 6BT Cummins 5 speed Getrag
    91 D0dge W250 6BTA Cummins NV-4500 conversion

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobS View Post
    You can post the same photobucket links on here the same way that you added them over there. Here's one of them showing that you have a 120 HP 4bta with the jacketed water aftercooler [JWAC]



    Here is the intercooler i ordered- paid too much but i got it.

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    How important is a grid heater? I notice that most of the 4bt's do not have one.

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    Grid heater depends on your climate. If you live in a warm area then it probably isn't necessary. In really cold areas it is needed. Generally if you have good batteries it will start right up. Dual batteries aren't required but it doesn't hurt. Bigger cables are a must.

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    hows the swap cuoming along

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2000fordf1504x4 View Post
    hows the swap cuoming along
    What you see is what you get. I've got some mounts on order that should be here this week. I'll have to fab mounts to bolt to the motor side and i hope that my intecooler comes in next week. So maybe by the end of july i may be able to set the motor. I still have to get my tranny (5 hours away) and get it put in place. I'm aslo working on a Masters Degree and have to do much writing as i am at the last course as of monday. So, time is fairly short. Still got to locate piping for intercooler and figure out the electrical/AC stuff

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    I know it takes time but I'll be fallowing this close because I want to do this swap in my 2000 but I'm not going to do it for at least 2 years when i will be done going to school for disel machanics

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    Torque Convertor Stall

    I got my isolators from AutoWorldMT, they look great! I need to get the TC build so i can get moving with a mock up for my mounts. I am wondering what is the best stall to get the TC made. I have read some use stock (1800RPM) and i know one that is a 1400RPM. ATS has recommended using a 1700 RPM stall as the 4bt generates its best power at 1800 RPM. Fire away

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    I'm going to replace the front seal while engine is out and check to see if the KDP has been fixed. The part number i have found for the seal is 3804899. Are there different seals or would they be the same. My dilemma is that the engine was in a 1991 van, but it is a 2002 Cummins Reman. all of the engine numbers are on the plate in the pictures above if you need that to answer the question. I found one for 15.00 that is cummins oem parts. I need one for my 6bt if this is in fact the right one.

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    I pulled the aftecooler last nigt, and i tried to pull the lines this afternoon. The probem with the line from the aftercooler that goes into the top of the head would not spin out. It started twisting. Any suggestions for getting it out. I did'nt want to put heat on it. It looks like it might could be wrenched as it has two square shoulders at the bottom of tubing.

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    I pulled the timing cover (one handed- rotater cuff is shot in left shoulder for sure). I was looking to see if the KDP had been fixed. the area around the pin is raised. Is that a new timing cover that is fixed. It is a cummin reman from 02. It has the redi-sleeve on the crank shaft so i'll need to order the seal accordingly. I've got to switch the power steering pump out with the one with a vacuum on it from my 6bt as i'm going to run the "boost" brakes on my 69 crewcab. Any thoughts on the KDP would be appreciated. Basically a traditonal tabbed fix WOULD NOT work as it is raised a good 1/4" above the area where the bolt for the tab seats.

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    here's the intake i have located. I have a small turbo (no id numbers on it) is it going to make a big difference having the small 2" intake. My intercooler and piping will be larger, but i can adapt to it very easily.




    NOTICE THIS 4BT HAS A SMALL ELECTRIC FUEL PUMP WITH THE ONE ON THE BLOCK BLANKED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by brobrad; 07-20-2012 at 01:49 PM.

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    http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0374.jpg

    here's my set up versus the direct crossover configuration. the Exhaust manifold looks to be different.

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    Rotater Cuff still Shot so I'm just piddling still:banghead:
    I got my front seal in today and a KDP tap- not necessary for my 4bt as the timing casing is raised around the KDP location so it can't be tabbed. I don't think it could slip out without stopping at the front cover. Its a 2002 reman and must be an updated casing. I'll use the tab on my 91.5 6bt

    I aslo got some aircraft stripper to strip the block. I'll degrease it first and use it sparringly avoiding all rubber seals, hoses etc. I got some 2000degree flat black for my manifold. I'm not sure what color to go with on the engine yet. My son says bright orange, but i'm thinking Ford blue.

    My 47RH is shipping from a guy in memphis who has been holding it for me. I'm not going to put a kit in it initially. I'm going to mock up and test run with stock convertor where i'll know exactly what stall i want. BTW Fastenall will ship. They are a little slower, but they are shipping to keep from running empty trucks on the road. Memphis to Laurel MS 78.00. That's a 5-1/2 hour drive and it don't have time to burn a whole day on getting it.

    Gonna Paint tranny to. I've got to get me another gen 2 adapter as well.
    I'll post more pics when i have them.

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    Looking at getting torque convertor. I can't afford suncoast Goerand etc. I have done some checking on the transtar. They have a lot of info on their web page and they sell a billet face TC with lower than factory stall for 350 plus core. I'm waiting to find out what the actual stall is set to from them. I have read that folks like suncoast buy their parts from them??? Anybody have experience

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    QUESTIONS!!!!

    I had not tried my adapter on the engine, but i did mate it up the tranny when i got it home. I have two problems now. Only 6 bolts bolt the adapter to the engine. I have 3 others that do not match holes. The top right hole is about 1/2 a bolt off, but the 6 that line up do so perfectly. That would appear to be enough to hold everything together and that may be all that is intended. 2ndly, my flex plate bolts are 1/4" too long. The bolts bottom out before they get tight to the flexplate. I assume the spacer goes on the outside of the flexplate. I can get shorter bolts i suppose. This was from a th400 setup and i suppose the components were slightly different.



    You can see the 3 bolts on the left and 3 on the right, but they are not opposite each other?????


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    AC Braket and Alternator braket. I guess you could call it a "Texas" mount based on its shape. the AC would sit on top of the ALT shifted slightly left. I'm also planning to move the tensioner over toward the alt 1/2" and up 3/8". My template is 1/8" Luan. Let me know what you think. I priced a "ready" made bracket from a very reputable company for 515.00. I plan on making this out of plate and gusset the back a little.




    The plate will not be bolted to the tensioner plate. It will be intergrated into one piece. I've got to get the spacing of all of it fine tuned before i start cutting steel..

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    The bolts you have for the flex plate are for a flywheel you have to get them for a automatic they are shorter
    1999 ford f-250 superduty 5.9 cummins built 4r100 trans and alot of engine mods

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    The bolts you have for the flex plate are for a flywheel you have to get them for a automatic they are shorter
    Nope, they were thru a flex plate for the TH400. If push comes to shove i could cut them down. What about the ring. Does it go in front of our behind the flex plate.

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    Front
    1999 ford f-250 superduty 5.9 cummins built 4r100 trans and alot of engine mods

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    Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by smokey View Post
    Front

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    Puzzled about the engine/transmission adpater. That thing is designed for a B series Cummins and they all have the same bolt pattern on the back. Doesn't make sense. Looks like there have been bolts in those holes before. They have to line up. On flex plate bolts, do you have flex plate bolts or flywheel bolts? They look identical but the flexplate bolts are shorter. What do they measure under the head? Seems like the flywheel bolts are around 32mm. They are special to Cummins.

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    Yeah, i watched the guy unbolt the adapter from a 5.9 in the scrap yard. I would suppose 6 will hold it all just fine. I personally took these bolts out of the flexplate that was on this egine bolted to a TH400, but one this is for sure. They are too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by char1355 View Post
    Puzzled about the engine/transmission adpater. That thing is designed for a B series Cummins and they all have the same bolt pattern on the back. Doesn't make sense. Looks like there have been bolts in those holes before. They have to line up. On flex plate bolts, do you have flex plate bolts or flywheel bolts? They look identical but the flexplate bolts are shorter. What do they measure under the head? Seems like the flywheel bolts are around 32mm. They are special to Cummins.

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    Might want to take a trip to your local Dodge dealer and look in his parts diagrams to see if there is a spacer for the flexplate. May be able to access that on the internet. I assume you already have a Dodge Cummins flexplate. Those things cost a small forturne new. Also take one of your bolts along and see if he has new ones so you can compare. Another thing is I'm not sure that the flexplate or flywheel bolts are supposed to be reused. Might be OK but seems I read where those are one time use bolts. They are very high grade, I think above gr12.9. A set of them costs somewhere around $40. Not exactly cheap.

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    Yeah, I bought the GEN 2 flexplate from a local salvage yard along with the starter. I've definietly got to figure out the dilemma.

    Quote Originally Posted by char1355 View Post
    Might want to take a trip to your local Dodge dealer and look in his parts diagrams to see if there is a spacer for the flexplate. May be able to access that on the internet. I assume you already have a Dodge Cummins flexplate. Those things cost a small forturne new. Also take one of your bolts along and see if he has new ones so you can compare. Another thing is I'm not sure that the flexplate or flywheel bolts are supposed to be reused. Might be OK but seems I read where those are one time use bolts. They are very high grade, I think above gr12.9. A set of them costs somewhere around $40. Not exactly cheap.

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    Just found my specs for the bolts. The flywheel bolts a M12x1.25 32mm (1.25" in English). The flexplate bolts are about 5/8" long. Slightly longer if you're using a billet flexplate. ARP shows them as .625 and hp .700. Not sure, but it may be possible that when the 4bt's were fitted to the GM vans they may have used the longer bolts for both manual and auto and used a spacer to make up the difference. If your bolts are about 1.25" under the head then they are flywheel bolts.

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    Default Mods to Ac/Alternator bracket

    This is the front of the mount. It is a total of 3 pieces plus gussetts.


    Alternator ties into bottom left two holes the top two on the right will support the tensioner.


    This piece is drilled for the Ac. I'll need some sapcers 5/8" taller than the plate to fasten the ac compressor. My dilemma is that the Ford AC pulley is narrower than the the other components but i asssume that it will all operate fine.


    The notch is for the Alternator to have clearance for a nut/wrench

    I had to Tee into this piece to make it all work and clear the bolts and keep a low profile to clear the water inlet.


    I've done it all in wood because i don't have the metal stuff. A buddy down the road has it all. I hope to get over there soon if i don't have shoulder surgery soon. I go back to Dr. Tomorrow.

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