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You had a 6.9IDI twist the frame in a Power Wagon? What vintage was the PW, and how thick was the frame? You saw my frame, mounts, and crossmember in the pics I posted. The crossmember is made of 2"x2"x3/16" square tube, and I mentioned the thickness of the frame and the motor mount components. Nothing super heavy duty, and even with 1100+lbs of engine and ~750lb-ft torque, and many, many off-road and on-road journeys there is no twisting or other deformation of the frame.

I should mention that under the core support I replaced the comical stock crossmember with a piece of 2"x4"x3/16" rectangular steel tube, welded in. The stock trans crossmember has also been replaced, again with one fabricated from 2"x2"x3/16". Definitely more rigid than stock, but no crossmember is going to fix a weak frame.
 

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The old flat fender power wagon, mine is a 56, frames are double from front cross member to near the rear/front spring hanger. I don't remember the thickness off hand.( 3/16 to 1/4 combined) It needed a cross member, like you have, at the mounts, but where I had to position the engine, it was too close to axle to install one. I had to build a dog house as it was,moving it up or back would have been more work than boxing the frame. Trying to put a couple photos of how tight it is.
IMG_20200119_074333.jpg
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Nice PW! Those are my favorite. I was looking into buying one and doing a resto mod, but the prices that even basket case trucks commanded turned be off. I also found out early on that a 6B won't fit due to length, so I would have to run a 4BT or ISB3.9, which cost more than the 6ers.
 

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At the Springfield MA ATHS truck show a few years back a gentleman had a 6bt in a PW, probably a late one with the slightly longer engine, obviously no I'cooler, really packed there, he was happy.

Ed in CO.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
Well guys I picked up an 89 gm frame with 1 ton axles for cheap 14 bolt full float rear and not sure on front identity yet also have to see what gears are in it was told 4.10 but have check had to cut frame up to haul it home. I also got a martyred np 208 with it which I’m gonna sell. It also has the PS box not sure if it’s usable or can be a core. I plan on swapping the axles and or the leaf springs and brackets. Any useful information or link on a swap in a dodge of this type would be appreciated.
 

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Was the 1-ton 89 a crew cab or chassis cab with a solid front axle? If so, the front axle should be a Dana 60. Also, are you sure the t-case is a 208? Could it be a passenger drop 241? Got pics?
 

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Discussion Starter #68
Yes it’s a solid axle front with lockout hubs I am not sure what the t case is for sure I’ll get pics of it tomorrow. I have been researching my stock leaf spring and my frame dimensions. I know I can buy new perch’s and unbolt kit to relocate the rear springs I am doing some research on the front axle because the one u bolt bolts on the pumpkin and just want to make sure I can make it work. I ll need to get some measurements tomorrow on the width of front and rear springs and perch’s on the new axles.
 

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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but those aren't 1 ton axles. They are 3/4 ton. GM used either Dana 44s or 10b (depending on year), with 8-lug hubs on their 3/4 ton 4WD square body trucks. Dana 44s were used up until 1980, after which the front axles became 10b units. The outer components on the 10b axles are identical Spicer components as the Dana 44 units, although after 1977 or so the flat-topped passenger side knuckles were replaced with rounded top knuckles, which can't be machined to accept crossover steering arms. This means the last 2 years of Dana 44 front axles and all 10b front axles had the round-top pass side knuckles. Fortunately, Reid racing makes beefy flat top pass side knuckles, and used ones from older axles can still be found occasionally, so if you want/need crossover on a later axle it's not a showstopper.

Your particular front axle is a 10b unit. If it is truly an 89, then it will have the more desirable 30 spline shafts (87-earlier had 28 spline shafts). I used to run this same axle under my truck, even with the Cummins. I never broke anything, but then again I know how to wheel smart and not hard ;) The 10b uses a much larger inner pinion bearing vs the D44, and in general the entire ring and pinion assembly is stronger than the equal sized (8.5") Dana 44. Most wheelers condemned the 10b as weaker than the D44, and they were correct for the 28 spline versions. However, the 30 spline unit has equal shaft strength, and as mentioned a stronger R&P. Up until the mid-late 70's the D44 did have thicker ½" walled axle tubes vs the last couple years of D44 and all 10b that run ⁵/₁₆" wall tubing. I've heard it claimed that the ⁵/₁₆" wall tubing is made of a stronger material, but I have no confirmation of this. I never bent mine, even with a 12V Cummins sitting on top of it, so I wouldn't worry. The main concern with a 6BT and big tires is ball joint wear/life. I never had any intention of replacing my E-Locked 10b, even after the ball joints needed replacing, but I came across a D61/D70U combo CHEAP so that changed the calculus. My buddy has been running his 6-lug 10b front axle with chromoly 30 spline shafts for 10 years in his fairly heavy LS-powered Jeep on 37" tires with no problems or breakage, so unless you plan on pushing the axle's weight limit with big tires or you just beat the tar out of your equipment it should serve you well.

Not much to say about the rear axle, other than that it has drum brakes. 14bff drum brakes work great, but the darn things weigh a ton. Lots of outfits make disk brake conversions but most lack a parking brake. Newer (2000's) 14 bolts have excellent factory disk brakes, with a drum-type parking brake in the rotor's hub area. The parking brake in those axles works, but doesn't have a lot of holding power compared to the earlier drum brake 14 bolts. Factory 14b disk brakes cannot be retrofitted onto older 14 bolts due to differences in the backing plate mount. Another thing to check with 14 bolts is the presence of the Eaton G80 "Gov-Lock" locking differential. This is a clutch-type locker that engages when differential wheel speed exceeds something like 100RPM. They generally work well, but are harsh when they engage due to the fact that the wheels have to be spinning for it to engage. They have a bad rap in smaller axles (i.e. 10b, 9.5" 14b semi-floater) because they have a habit of grenading the carrier if abused. The 14bff unit is much more robust, but it has only 3 spider gears vs 4 in the open diffs, and if abused it can blow those gears apart. I have one of these in my 2002 14b and it gets the job done. I do plan to replace it with an ARB one day, but for now it works and I have no real complaints. You just need to be careful when you have wheelspin and realize the unit will engage hard if you have your foot in it, so it's best to let the spinning wheel accelerate over a couple seconds to locking speed to make engagement less harsh. Another disadvantage of the G80 is that the carrier cannot accept a Detroit locker. Unlike the Detroit for every other axle, which is a complete replacement carrier, the 14bff Detroit is just the internal mechanism that installs into the ridiculously strong stock, 2-piece, forged 8620 steel open carrier housing. So, if you decide you want a Detroit and you currently have a G80, you will have to find an open carrier somewhere or buy a complete open diff donor axle to take the carrier out of. The latter solution can actually be economically viable with the 14bff because they are SO common that older ones with open carriers can be had for low $$$ or even free.

Some guys don't like the 208, but it is really not a bad chain drive transfer case. It has a strong 2.64:1 ratio planetary reduction unit with straight-cut gears and a chain comparable to a 241. Because they use straight cut gears there is virtually no thrust loads in the planetary assembly and input bearing so they should wear less than the later helical-geared units like the 241. However, for that same reason they are noisier than the helically geared cases, especially in low range. Unfortunately, unlike the later chain drive cases the 208 has no oil pump, and if it's run from a prolonged period while low on oil it will slowly trash itself. Usually they have a lot of miles on them so they might need bearings, and will almost certainly need a new slip yoke bushing and seal. If it was used in a plow truck and you intend to use it, open it up and inspect all the hard parts for wear. If the internals are still usable, you will still definitely want to replace the chain, and inspect the bearings carefully to see of they need to be replaced. Pay particular attention to the slip yoke bushing. Speaking of which, the slip yoke is the Achilles heel of the 208 (and any other slip yoke transfer case) for use on a lifted truck. Slip yokes wear rapidly when the driveshaft is running at relatively high angles from parallel. Unfortunately, unlike the 241 and 231, there is no slip yoke eliminator kit so if you need a lot of driveshaft angle you are likely best served with a different case.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I went and looked at the front it has an 11 stamped on it the 10bolt front might be too light for my W300 I would like to keep it a 1 ton. I didn’t know what I was looking at and apparently neither did the seller. I luckily only have 400$ + gas and trailer rental in it. I’ll have to mull all this over.
 

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A D60 would be ideal, but the 10b will work if it's used within it's weight limit and not wheeled hard. Tire size matters as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Ok I have another question I am also toying with the idea of an I 6 ford or Chevy motor I found some deals one question is can a Ford F-150 Mazda transmission with the slip in yoke on the tail work on a divorced Tcase? Or does it have to have the bolt on yoke would it hold up in my 1 ton?
 

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... can a Ford F-150 Mazda transmission with the slip in yoke on the tail work on a divorced Tcase?

... would it hold up in my 1 ton?
Maybe and Maybe

I have used a M5R2 (aka M5OD) for over 70K miles. It has a much longer tailshaft than the Ford 4 speed that I removed from the 4bt. The drive shaft (output of transmission to input of transfer case) will need to be shortened to use your existing Dodge transfer case - Is their enough room to put a drive shavt between the M5R2 and the existing Dodge transfer case?. I do not have any data on file - tape measure and Google search time.

The M5R2 was only sold in 1/2 Ton trucks, Not likely to last long under heavier usage.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
It has the dodge np435 4 speed in it currently and I can’t remember if it’s an NP201 transfer case. I’m getting rid of the Poly 318 as I am not a fan of any v8 motor not to mention you can’t do much to a Poly and it has to have the heads redone for unleaded gas I have no desire to put that kind of money in a motor that you can’t upgrade because it’s expensive and you can only get used intakes that are very rare and outrageously over priced. I’d be into it the cost of a used 6bt or 4bt. The 225 slant 6 is just not strong enough for it. I kinda figured the Mazda might not be Heavy duty enough for the truck but figured I’d get some other opinions.
 

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While I'm not going to recommend one engine over another, my question is why you believe a 225 slant wouldn't be strong enough? Do you mean it wouldn't have enough HP and TQ? If that is the case, consider than even a bone stock 225 has more HP and TQ vs the original 230ci and approx. the same as the 251ci flathead 6 engines. With a few mods they can get torque into the 250lb-ft range and HP into the 150-170hp zone. The extremely undersquare design, small bores which limit valve size, and long stroke with 4 main bearings creates limits on breathing and RPM, and thus how much power the platform can make. But, within it's limits it is extremely durable and reliable. Juts make sure you use a 1973 or later cylinder head, which has induction-hardened valve seats. Many engines used valve rotators, which are desirable for long exhaust valve and seat life. Steel cranks were used up until mid-1976, after which the engine went to cast iron cranks. The cast crank engines use different blocks and bearings, so you can't drop a steel crank into a block designed for a cast iron crank. While steel cranks are always desired, these engines had no known problems with the cast cranks, even when modified. The ideal engine would be a 1973-first half of 1976 engine, which were steel crank with hardened valve seats. Otherwise, an earlier steel-crank short block can be used with a later head that has hardened valve seats. Finally, you can simply use a second half 1976 and later 225 with the cast crank, which will be plenty durable and reliable.

I've mentioned this before, but my recommendation for an inline 6 gas engine would be the later Jeep 4.0 HO engine. These can be stroked to 4.6 liters by swapping a crank and rods from an AMC 4.2L engine into the 4.0. Here's a good example of just such a build:



I'm not sure what a "Poly" 318 is? Are you talking about the Chrysler A engine? They're good engines, along with the later LA and Magnum variants. Were I to keep a 318 V8 I would personally put a Magnum 5.2 in with the factory fuel injection. I can understand the reasoning for wanting an inline 6 in the classic flat fender Power Wagon though. I would want that too ;-)
 

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If the truck has a NP435 now, the NV4500 is essentially the same transmission with an OD gear added on. The M5R2-OD is a good transmission but has limits as Russ pointed out. Member Eggman had one ins his F250 4x4 and it lived through some pretty serious torture but eventually died. He now has the ZF S5-42 which came in Ford HD pickups. With transmissions, it's probably better to have too much than not enough. Another possible transmission could be the Spicer 3053A. That unit came in 2.5 ton military trucks, is reasonably small, and was used with divorced transfer cases. It is a 5 speed with OD. Requires an SAE3 adapter on the engine which is no problem on a Cummins. Here's what one looks like.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Ya I own a Bobbed Deuce with a Spicer 3053a it’s a very strong transmission as for the Poly it is dubby that because of the Polyshperical heads. It’s also dubbed the Semi Hemi. That is definitely a cool video of a Jeep engine making that kind of power. The reason I also like the inline 6s they make there full torque very early in there RPM range and definitely wanting and OD transmission to help with mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Well guys I am gonna be trading for a 300 6 and a Ford NP435 2wd trans I am hoping my internals from the dodge NP435 trans are the same I know bell housings are different and the bolt patterns. Just paying with gas and time can’t beat that.
 

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Well, the 300 I6 was probably one of the best 6's ever made. They were used in trucks from F100's all the way into dump trucks. The dump truck models are pretty rare and were favored by guys on the race tracks as they had forged steel cranks. Used to be a lot of performance parts for those engines. Not sure if any of that is in your plans. There were cams, headers, 4 barrel or three 2 barrel carb manifolds, etc. Rebuilding on can be relatively easy and not so expensive as a diesel. I live beside a machine shop that built those for racers back in the day. On the transmission, don't know of any difference on the internals. You know, there were 5 speed NP transmissions and some with OD. One of our members messes with those and that might be useful. Finding one might be the real challenge.
 
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