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Discussion Starter #161
Well I reinstalled the Ford 7.3L starter I have with the Dodge adapter plate. I'm going to see if I can get a hand to test the starter out this way with the flywheel off and see how things look. All this is very mysterious to me right now! I was trying to measure the placement of the starter of both adapter plates but the one in the engine bay is too tight to get accurate measurements of.
 

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I don't think I've ever seen anyone use the Ford 7.3 starter with the Dodge adapter plate. That starter is normally used with the Ford adapter plate on the 4bt. There are various starters and mods that can gain clearance on the Dodge, but don't think the Ford is it.
 

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but don't think the Ford is it.
Its running a 12T instead of the 13T as has been done successfully, as long as the pitch is the same, it would be a gem find. Also means running a mech clutch just got a lot easier with the offset starter out of the way of clutch linkage. I had to run a hydro pull Wilwood because of that starter. Please post pics BTG.
 

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Red, my question would be will the Ford reach the flywheel gear with a Dodge adapter plate? When used on the 4bt you have to eliminate the spacer so it will engage.
 

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That adapter looks(as much as I can tell from pics) to be the 47rh/nv4500 adapter, the thicker one. He would have to run the getrag flywheel to get gear mesh. The 7.3 will probably work with the shorter getrag/a518 adapter but I do agree it may not work with the deeper BH without the proper flywheel. This may sound stupid and I dont know the terminology but the adapter that bolts directly onto to your flywheel for the auto setup could solve the issue and you could run a larger input bearing Im thinking. https://www.ebay.com/itm/CUMMINS-3960058-ISB-CRANKSHAFT-ADAPTER-ALLISON/192801304875?epid=510770433&hash=item2ce3da712b:g:9bEAAOSwwPRcSOBl:rk:4:pf:0 It could be a key to the short/deep issues
 

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Discussion Starter #166
Gentlemen thank you for chiming in and sharing your thoughts!!

I have adapter plate 3923045 from a Dodge 6BT to mate to my NV4500. Since I already had the Ford 7.3L starter sitting in my garage I thought I'd try mating it up anyway. I'll be sure to report back after I try spinning up the starter.
 

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Discussion Starter #167
The Ford 7.3L starter doesn't have enough "reach" to make contact with the flywheel. Tried it out on Friday just before heading out of town and it was a bust.

No one knows of any alternative starters for the Dodge flywheel? Mean Green still hasn't gotten back to me.
 

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I sort of suspected that starter would come up short. When used on a 4bt with the Ford or GM flywheel plate, you have to omit the starter spacer that is used with stock Cummins starter. Is the stock Dodge starter too long to fit the vehicle? If so, I believe there are some shorter aftermarket versions. Have also seen some with the starter motor clocked in different positions.
 

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Discussion Starter #169
Length from the adapter plate going forward isn't an issue in my setup. The "clocking" is the issue for me currently. Any starter you know of that is "clocked" differently in either direction would be a very likely solution for me. Do you have any links? I've found starters on Amazon that APPEAR to be the same starter clocked differently but the application is always different as best I can tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #170
From purely looks it appears that a 1st gen Dodge Cummins starter is clocked correctly for my needs. Can anyone confirm that a 1st gen starter will work with a 2nd gen flywheel?
 

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Discussion Starter #171
Looks like according to this post here in the forums someone was able to get Mean Green to clock a starter for them. I will have to consider that option seriously.
 

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If I remember correctly, the 1st and 2nd gen starters are different due to the difference in the flywheels. The early adapter plates are not the same depth. When the NV4500 came along things changed. Don't know how much work you want to put into it, but might look at Tinker's build on a Land Rover. He added metal to the block adapter so he could clock the starter different. That way no need for a special starter. That starts around post #125. Here's the link. https://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?100657-Land-Rover-Disco2-Out-with-the-old-in-with-the-4BT!/page5
 

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If I remember correctly, the 1st and 2nd gen starters are different due to the difference in the flywheels. The early adapter plates are not the same depth. When the NV4500 came along things changed. Don't know how much work you want to put into it, but might look at Tinker's build on a Land Rover. He added metal to the block adapter so he could clock the starter different. That way no need for a special starter. That starts around post #125. Here's the link. https://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?100657-Land-Rover-Disco2-Out-with-the-old-in-with-the-4BT!/page5
Half that's correct. The 1st gen starter is different than the 2nd gen starter because the difference of the adapter plate only....not the flywheel or the flex plate. You can install either a 2nd get flywheel or 2nd gen flex plate on a 1st gen Dodge without changing the adapter or starter. The 1st gen adapter is thinner then the thicker/deeper 2nd gen one.
 

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Mark, if you put a 2nd gen flywheel on the 1st gen adapter, will the clutch assembly still work properly? I know the automatics probably are OK since the 46RH and 47RH are essentially the same size. Just wondered what you get into trying to use the NV4500 flywheel on the earlier adapter. Seems like everyone always changes all the parts to match.
 

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No, the 2nd gen stock nv4500 clutch is a 12" & the 1st gen is a 13" so you can't mix & match for trans parts as the nv4500 needs the thicker plate for the difference in the bell housing of the nv4500 etc. If you try installing a nv4500 on a 1st gen engine, it requires a kit that has a custom bell housing etc & the shift tower is moved back approx. 4" too.
It sounds funny but it's not the difference of the 12" or 13" flywheel.....as the actual diameter is the same, it's where the ring gear is located that's different. We install a 13" flywheel in the 2nd gen trans all the time for more holding power.....the kit comes with a 13" H.O 6speed flywheel & a starter spacer to move the starter/gear farther forward to match up with the different location of the 13" ring gear.

For the auto's, the flex plates interchange, although the 1st gen flex plate is much weaker. The trans are similar but different for the fact the 2nd gen auto is a lock up which needs the thicker adapter & it pushes the trans back 1.25" to make room for the thicker lock up TC. I did this mod to my 93 Cummins when I pulled my 400hp VE engine & non-lock up trans & built & installed a 700hp engine with a built lock up trans.Night & day difference having lock up
 

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Thanks for those images, They got grabbed and filed in my computer.
 

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Thanks for those images, They got grabbed and filed in my computer.
Have plenty more Cummins engine catalogs:
my 1988 4BT3.9 VE 105h,
ISB 6BTA industrial
4BTA3.9 250 Marine
ISB 4BTAA 3.9
ISBe 3.9
4BTA3.9 VE 120hp
6BTA VE Dodge 1992
6BTA Dodge 1994
QSB 6BTA Industrial
 

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Keep in mind the 1st gen flex plates are known to break easier than the 2nd gen ones. I broke my 1st gen one when I was 2 hrs away from home....made one hell of a racket when it let loose. Luckily no damage. Have read many others that have broke their 1st gen ones too. Installed a 2nd gen one & never had another problem. Some companies make stronger ones by either laminating a 2nd centre section onto the 1st & some make a billet one. Just check on clearance of TC with an aftermarket unit because some interfere.
 

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Discussion Starter #180
Looks like according to this post here in the forums someone was able to get Mean Green to clock a starter for them. I will have to consider that option seriously.
Got a hold of Mean-Green on the phone was told that they never custom made those starters as "one-off's" but that they had made a large batch that sold well. However too many people wouldn't follow directions and properly torque them in and it was causing too many insurance claims and liability issues so they have decommissioned that variant.
 
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