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My Jan. 1984 parts catalog does not show either grommet in either the parts list or in the parts diagram - My "speculation" is that the grommet is included as part of the supply line assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter #242 (Edited)
I was wondering the same thing Russ. Thanks for chiming in. Looks like I may need to purchase the entire line. What a waste. I looked at Cummins Part No: 3908988 Fuel Supply Line and it is only the half that goes forward from the filter housing. This connects to a male union: Cummins Part Number 3908985. The union connects to the fuel supply tube: Cummins Part Number 3912784. Nothing about the rubber grommets which seals them.
 

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Going to need a bit of help. Where in the fuel plumbing setup is that larger line? Also, is your CPL 767? I've found a fuel line that looks like that one but it doesn't show a grommet. By the way, I believe there are 3 of that small one in the setup. One on the injector return, one on the injection pump return, and one on the line going back to the tank. This is sure keeping my brain active. LOL.

PS. I think I finally found that little sucker. Cummins part 3905351 which is now Case part 222-103. That one's expensive. $1.75.
 

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I'll see if I can post you a diagram that show that little devil. You'll need 2 of them, 1 on each side of the union. It's part #7 in the diagram.
127980
 

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Discussion Starter #245 (Edited)
Cummins PART# 3905391 is a 5/16 ID grommet seal. I saw it for $9.47. It is used for 1989 - 1993 5.9-Cummins. I measured the OD of the fuel pipe and found it is 3.12 + or - a few which is 5/16. I really thought it was 3/8 and need my eyes recalibrated.

In the end, I pulled the trigger on char1355's find. Case part no. 222-103 meets the specs. And I thank you for the work finding this seal. I hope someone else will benefit from the work if they review this thread.
 

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Apparently Cummins did away with that rubber seal on later CPL's. I found it on a CPL767 but later models must have had a fitting that didn't require it. I always enjoy a good challenge but this one was starting to bug me. I could find all the fuel lines except the ones for the feed to the injection pump. Then I stumbled onto it under the fuel filter plumbing.
 

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Discussion Starter #247 (Edited)
Now I am searching exhaust manifold bolts. The two sizes my 4BT require are (Flanged) M10x1.50x70 (4 each) and M10x1.50x100 (4 each). DieselTuff sells a set but does not specify exactly what size he is selling. I noticed that almost all bolt sets come in one size only. Moreover, DieselTuff requires a $100.00 minimum purchase. Please let me know if you have any sources. Thanks in advance.

I did find some ARP flanged bolts but the socket size was 12mm to turn them. Too small in case the bolts are on the engine for a long time and would be even more difficult to remove.
 

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OK. Your stock bolts should be Cummins part 3901448 (M10x1.50x65mm flange head bolt) and 3900636 (M10x1.50x100mm flange head bolt). 3901448 is Case part 504085705 for $2.78 each. The other bolt was never on a Case application. You have an odd manifold. All the later manifolds use 8 of the 65mm bolts. You might have to get the 100mm bolts from Cummins. The only other engine model I found using those was the M11. Do you by chance have that weird tilted manifold? Cummins discontinued that unit a long time ago. One reason I had read was it caused premature bearing failure in the turbo. You can still get the manifold but would you believe that sucker is around $800. Must have some gold in it. LOL.

Mopar had a bolt part 06104227AA which is for alternator mounting. Don't know if it will stand up to the heat of an exhaust. See photo below.
 

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Discussion Starter #249 (Edited)
I took a picture of the manifold for you. Not sure what "weird" is as far as these manifolds go. The manifold itself is in good condition. Looking at the price you found, I am glad I don't need to find another.

My short bolts are M10x1.50x70 per the picture at the bottom. I also took a picture of the longer one. The Cummins website no longer lists the exhaust manifold or the bolts to secure it. I did find that Case carries the shorter bolts

CASE 4895292
CASE ORIGINAL OEM, FLANGE BOLT, HEX, M10 X 1.5 X 70MM
Short Manifold Bolts.jpg
I am curious if you know how an exhaust manifold could cause premature bearing failure??? I do not see the correlation. I checked the size of the bolt heads and found that a 1/2 inch socket fits. So the 12mm bolt I found from ARP would not be too much out of line. Thinking back to the fuel seals which seemed difficult to find, I believe a compression fitting is what I should use. I have already ordered the seals though.
 

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Yeah, that's the manifold. According to Quick Serve, the shorter bolts are 65mm not 70mm. The reason given for the turbo failure is there is constant pressure on the oil seals with the turbo in that tilted position. Your CPL may have been the only application for that exhaust manifold. On the fuel seals, the later model engines had a compression type fitting instead of the rubber grommet. There again, your CPL may be one of the few that used them. If you retro fitted the updated type that could get expensive. You'd need new fuel return lines and feed lines. That would be 5 new ones plus a new T and union.
 

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Discussion Starter #251 (Edited)
I ended up ordering the ARP bolts: The other bolts (70mm length) are ARP Kit #: 662-1009. Fastener Tensile Strength (psi):180,000 psi. I would have gone with the 65mm as that is the original, but the 70mm gives me about 3 more threads per hole to grab the head.

127989
 

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Discussion Starter #252 (Edited)
Starting to look at timing the injection pump. Not sure how so I have been looking at videos and a few threads.

Here are a few videos. The second one is very well done.
  • Bosch VE Pump Installation
    (7:43)
  • How to time a VE Fuel Pump
    (4:37)
  • VE Pump Timing Cummins
    (7:05)
Here's where the problem started:

Gear Train Alignment.jpg

Before disassembly I marked the gear train with a marker to realign the gears when then engine would be put back together. This turned out to be a good move for later reference. Unfortunately, since the crankshaft went to the machine shop for polishing they took my marks off of the crank. Upon reassembly, I was able to align the cam gear to the crank gear because the key for the crank was in the picture and gave me a reference point. I didn't really look at the stamped marks on the crank and cam gear as they would naturally line up when my markings lined up.

When the Injection pump was mounted on the back of the front gear case cover I believed I had this in the bag. I did not. Since the injection pump is locked at TDC for No. 1 cylinder, I had to align my gears. The only problem was, they did not align. I was one tooth off as the next picture shows The two "0 0" marks should align with the crankshaft. Not knowing any better I took my engine apart as it was.

Timing Marks Cam Gear to Inj Pump Gear .jpg

Now, I did not install the Injection pump gear in this position. Once I saw the marks for the Crank/Cam gears and aligned them, I placed the Injection pump gear into its location and found out that it was right. The mark on the camshaft gear lined up with the "F" on the injection pump gear. As it turns out, depending on the engine will determine which letter you line up to the mark on the cam-shaft gear. For most 4BTs it is "F"

Cam Gear to Inj Pump Gear 2.jpg

The problem was the timing was one tooth off to begin with. This made me happy that I created my own marks on the gears because now I could see the issue after I rotated the engine and saw my marks did not align anymore.

Looking at the injection pump marks to the gear case cover (below) showed they couldn't align due to travel restrictions of how far the inj pump could be rotated. In the picture below, you can see the pump is at its limit of travel and the line is the width of a fingernail off. You may have to look closely.
Timing Marks Pump to Gear Case Housing.jpg


But these marks were valid only with the Injection pump gear and cam shaft gear in the old configuration which was one tooth off. So, now there was no way I could use the marks as my guide.

So now, on to the timing the engine.

Here is the procedure (this is where the video above comes in handy above).

Timing Procedure 1.PNG
Timing Procedure 2.PNG

The problem here is the manual doesn't give you the lift value you will need to time the engine. After scratching my head... I pounded my forehead when I remembered where it was. It is on the name plate data. For my engine it is 1.66mm.

Name Plate Data TDC 1.66MM.jpg

I can now time the engine and feel confident in doing so. The reason I am writing this lengthy post is to help the next person with what I had do wrap my head around. Hopefully this person has a mark on the injection pump which aligns to a mark on the front gear case housing. This is a good reference point. I will need to re-mark mine in case I need to do this again. I also noticed that a lot of videos and threads pass this topic over when completing their builds. Maybe they assume that it is common information... not sure. In my time, I worked on Fairbanks-Morse, GM 71 series and the 6.2 chevy diesel. This is a new animal for me.
 

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Are you talking about the seals for the banjo bolts or something else? 3905391 is a fuel line grommet for the return line. Don't believe there's any copper washer replacement for that part. $10 is on the low side for that part. Some guys charge $20.
Sorry, yeah I was mistaken, thought he was referring to the rubber coated banjo sealing washers that Cummins uses. Yes definitely, I know what you're talking about and I will second going to CaseIH for parts if for no other reason than their customer service is generally ten times better than Cummins.

Glendon
 

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Just for reference, a lower priced tool ($34.95) from Geno's Garage:


I have an earlier version of this tool.
That's the exact barring tool I have. It works in place of Cummins 5299073 at less than 1/2 the cost.

fleece makes one that bolts to the damper. i like it better than barring from the rear due to no extensions needed.

I have a Fleece barring adapter on my 1998 6BT. I bought it when I was replacing the head gasket and bearings. The problem with the splined barring tool is you can't use it when the Cummins is mounted on and engine stand.
 

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Sorry, yeah I was mistaken, thought he was referring to the rubber coated banjo sealing washers that Cummins uses. Yes definitely, I know what you're talking about and I will second going to CaseIH for parts if for no other reason than their customer service is generally ten times better than Cummins.

Glendon
I think you're referring to Cummins 3918188. These are used to seal the fuel lines to the top of the fuel filter in my 1998 Ram. Those sealing washers can be pricey, but I recently found them for $1.17 each. With shipping and tax, I paid $20.17 for 8 sealing washers. I bought them from www.mddistributorsstore.com .
 

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Discussion Starter #256
TIMING ISSUE:

Okay, I back to an issue. After connecting the dial gage to the pump I checked preload. I found TDC and pushed the timing pin in. I pulled the timing pin and barred the crank in the counter clockwise direction until the dial on the gage stopped moving. I zeroed the dial and barred the crank in the clockwise rotation until the timing pin was able to be pushed in. the dial moved almost 3 complete revolutions which is 1.50MM. I loosened the 3 nuts mounting the injection pump to the gear cover and moved the injection pump until it read the required 1.66MM.

The last step was to repeat the procedure over to ensure it wound up in the same position at 1.66MM at TDC. That is where everything went wrong. Suddenly, I could only get just over 1 full revolution of the dial before the timing pin was able to be pushed in. On last attempt I could only get a quarter of the one full revolution of the dial gage which is about 0.12.

I checked the dial indicator and saw that I had proper preload and then moved the plunger to ensure the dial indicator worked correctly. everything looks fine. I then went past TDC and the dial kept moving until it reached 3 + complete revolutions. However, again I was way past TDC. As it turns out, nothing is a piece of cake. Any opinions?

Is the pump messed up or operator error?
 

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Discussion Starter #257
Timing Issue:

I loosened the mounting bolt for the Inj Pump... I rotated the pump towards the block until it could go no further. This allowed me to achieve 1.20MM. Now I am wondering if the pump gear needed to be one tooth off to adjust the timing correctly.
 

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So I’m a bit confused on how you found TDC ?
Also, I can’t see from your engine tag, what year was the engine built ?
 

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Discussion Starter #259
So I’m a bit confused on how you found TDC ?
Also, I can’t see from your engine tag, what year was the engine built ?
I found TDC by aligning the crankshaft marks to the camshaft marks and pushing the timing pin in. The 4BT is a 1987 model. That is the year they started aligning the camshaft gear to the "F" mark on the Injection Pump gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #260 (Edited)
Found my mistake. I was reading the instructions too closely. The dial indicator on the instruction sheet above states the dial is set in increments of .50mm per revolution. My dial indicator is set at 100mm per revolution. I need one full revolution plus .66.

I now have enough experience to time this engine to factory settings. 🤪
 
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