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Discussion Starter · #661 ·
Worked on the A-pillar gauges this weekend. I also ran the boost tube and pyro through the cab grommet to the engine compartment. The only issue I had was the gauges were too big for the holes. :unsure:

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First I had to widen the holes on the gauge mount with a small tool.

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Then I installed the gauges

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I ran the tube for the boost with the pyrometer through the back of the front speaker mount. It has been a while since I registered the truck :oops:

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Then, I ran the wires through the dash and fished the lines through the firewall grommet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #662 · (Edited)
Fitted the passenger side fender today, I did not figure it would take hours to figure out how it aligned correctly. It seems there is a pattern one must follow to align the fender. It starts with the lowest bolt to the radiator support. Work up and then go to the door and set the gap. Bolt accordingly. (to set the gap, I used a 2x4 and a jack between the firewall and radiator support; it was crude but it worked.)

I put the battery tray in as well as the battery. Connected the starter with the cables and I decided to run the engine in the frame. I ran a jumper from the battery to the fuel solenoid and ran the engine. It shook quite a bit but smoothed with the RPM being brought up. That is where the trouble began. I shut it down after a few moments only to find I could not restart. I had no exhaust and figured it must be the fuel system. I bled the system using the inline electric pump. I must have been at it for over half an hour. I bled at the bolt on top of the fuel filter. I kept getting air. Now it seems I have to go over the new fuel lines I put in and check them for tightness. I will catch up on pics soon. It was after dark so I did get to take any pictures today. :confused::confused::confused:
 

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That air demon seems to be a favorite with Cummins engines. Only takes the smallest sport for it to creep in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #664 ·
Any suggestions on how to track it down? I ordered another electronic pump which I will put in at the selector valve. I will use a clear tube to connect the selector to the pump and pressurize up to the injection pump. I will then look for leaks. I can also take a clear 3/8 tube and hook it to the selector valve and the other end to the suction of the electronic pump on the frame (near the engine) and look for bubbles in the line. If I find no bubbles, then I have moved the section of tube that contains the air leak. If I still have an air leak, then I should see bubbles. Thinking out loud here. I have two tanks on this truck. I switched tanks last night and still was pulling air with the diesel. I believe that the selector valve and tanks are okay. We shall see this weekend coming.
 

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Chasing that demon down can sometimes be challenging. The more connections you have the more places for it to occur. Electric pumps and these engine are not favorite friends. They were never used on the B series 12 valve engines. If you can start ruling out where the air isn't getting in that will help. Small things like a slightly loose fuel filter or a tiny crack in a washer at one of the banjo fittings can be issues. Could even happen inside the fuel tank with a micro crack in a pickup tube
 

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Discussion Starter · #666 ·
The truck has dual fuel tanks and a selector valve in between. During the bleeding process, I switched tanks to see if that would solve the issue. I crawled under the truck to check the tightness of all fittings. Nothing is loose and new hoses were used. The 3/8 fuel line has minimal fittings. Only the hose that connects to the tank selector valve at one end, and the hose that connects to the electronic fuel pump at the other end. Note: The electronic fuel pump is only in line to prime the system. The engine has a mechanical fuel pump which provides the fuel to the injection pump. I ran the same set up on my 6.2 diesel. I used the frame mounted fuel pump to fill the fuel filter after I replaced it during maintenance. I have another pump coming in which I will connect with a clear tube to the selector valve. The pressure might be enough to reveal the leak on the discharge side, and the clear tubing might reveal a leak via bubbles in the clear tubing. Either way my fingers are crossed.
 

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... Note: The electronic fuel pump is only in line to prime the system. The engine has a mechanical fuel pump which provides the fuel to the injection pump....
Not all electric fuel pumps are flow through. I use electric fuel pumps for priming. My former Facet Diesel fuel pump ("rattle" pump) was flow through. My current Edelbrock Diesel electric fuel pump ("turbine pump") is not flow through.

When I installed the Edelbrock, it primed the system to 7 PSI and I bled the fuel filter. The 4bt started right up and I drove off. The fuel pressure gauge quickly dropped toward zero PSI. I drove the truck back into my shop and redesigned the fuel system (no mechanical lift pump and 2 Edelbrock "turbine" pumps in parallel - toggle switch to select the pump - provides a backup at the flip of a switch - and check valves to prevent back flow through the un-powered pump). Details toward the end of my build thread.

Russ
 

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Russ, where did you source the check valves?
Tom,

It took me a while to get back. Today involved kids and a 26 foot Uhaul truck. Successful day, maybe a bit "long" for a 77 year old....

I ordered 5/16" brass fittings from Summit Racing (no source of 5/16" stuff locally). It was a few years ago. Story starts on page 17, post #337 of my build thread. This mentions the draw through problem and having to source 5/16" fittings from Summit.

Post #342 "Edelbrock # 17302 green pump ..."


Post#345 "I installed dual electric pumps ..."


The ball valves were from the Peoples Republic of Tinpanistan - they quickly developed a leak out of the valve stem. Story at Post #357

I never did post any pictures of the installation... Found a couple pictures on the computer:

Auto part Cable Pipe Wire Metal

Suction side > ball valve (quickly developed a leak) > tee > 2 filters > 2 electric pumps

Blue Gas Electrical wiring Cable Auto part

Output side > 2 electric pumps > > 2 check valves > Tee > line to fuel filter on the side of the 4bt

No problems with this installation. A couple of years ago, it made a 2,200 mile round trip the the Lead Ain't Dead custom cars show in Dewey, OK. Eventually my (very tired) VE pump started leaking. I sent out the VE pump for a rebuild. After re-installing the VE pump, I used the electric pump to fill a new fuel filter and prime the VE pump. Bled the air out of the injector lines and the engine fired right up.

NOTE: I do have a digital fuel pressure gauge (measure at the output of the fuel filter). I occasional toggle between the 2 electric pumps to keep the wear "even". The lift pump was removed and the hole was blocked off.

p.s. The trip was very expensive - I got the urge to customize a car.
Automotive parking light Sky Car Vehicle Wheel

Old RT-66, Shamrock, TX. One year later, I drove a customized 1962 Volvo PV544 to this show. All the mechanical work (including air conditioning) is mine - I quickly figured out that I did not have enough years left to learn custom body work and paint. Fender skirts, frenched head lights and tail lights, custom grill, rust repair, body work and paint are by Smooth Engineering in Phoenix (Thanks, Ed).

Russ
 
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Discussion Starter · #671 · (Edited)
Changed the port my oil sensor attaches to and used the forward port behind the injection pump.

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Painted the gauge cluster to match the interior
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I put the last fender and hood back on the truck. I am rapidly approaching the wiring.
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On another note, I removed the fuel pump and will go with the option Russ did in the post above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #672 · (Edited)
Did some work today. I received the block plate and installed it, bypassing the mechanically driven pump. The screws that came with the block plate only have 3-4 threads showing on the other side. I installed the block plate with the bolts from the mechanical pump.

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The new pumps came in the mail with a few fittings and new hose. I am still short a fitting or two.

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I was able to work on the front trim (it is red, and I need it painted blue to match the truck)

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Installed the bumper too.

I installed the front bumper and some trim but had to cut it short as I did not order the upper and lower trim connecting pieces that tie in the outer trim. I also had ordered the wrong grille. o_O

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You also want a ball valve, located between the tank and the electric pumps, to shut off the fuel flow. Makes future maintenance much easier.

Russ
 
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I'm wondering is those fuel pumps will be adequate. It shows a pressure rate of 4-7 PSI. The Cummins shop manual shows a 3 PSI drop across the filter which would only leave your 1-4 PSI at the injection pump. If the filter should get a little dirty it would leave not much. The shop manual shows lift pump pressure should be 3-5 PSI after the filter which would be 6-8 PSI pre filter. Your flow rate is OK at 38 GPH because the stock diaphragm pump is only rated at 21 GPH at idle speed. Not sure what it is at operating speed.
 

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I'm wondering is those fuel pumps will be adequate. It shows a pressure rate of 4-7 PSI. The Cummins shop manual shows a 3 PSI drop across the filter which would only leave your 1-4 PSI at the injection pump....
I am measuring 6 to 7 PSI at the output of the final fuel filter. I routinely drive it at 75 MPH. A clean fuel filter should have a negligible pressure drop. 2 years back, I made a 2,200 mile round trip to Oklahoma.

Russ

p.s. I have an electronic fuel pressure gauge - I have performed most of my vehicle maintenance since 1965, instrumentation (sometimes) finds problems before you get stranded on the side of the road. If an electric pump starts failing, a simple flip of a toggle switch turns the other electric fuel pump on. O'reilly auto parts has the pumps in stock.
 
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Followup picture

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Fuel pressure measured at the output of the fuel filter. 1/4" tube brazed into the banjo bolt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #677 ·
The other fittings were waiting for me when I came home from work. So I did the quick layout on the dining table. I am curious (Russ) about the digital pressure gauge on the outlet side of your filter. Got any pics and sourcing?

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Looking good. Pictures? Let me pour another cup of coffee and dive into my hard drive ;).

This engine has almost 12 years in my possession, I drove it for a while in the bread truck before doing the swap.

As near as I can reconstruct, the following lift pumps were used:
1. Stock diaphragm pump
2. Mechanical pump kit for a 4bt (fuel pressures measured in the 17-18 PSI range) - got up to 22 PSI when I kinked a fuel return line at the tank.:eek:. It destroyed the sender on a Stewart-Warner 0-15 electric fuel pressure gauge. I went to a GlowShift digital gauge.
Gauge Speedometer Motor vehicle Measuring instrument Odometer

Shows 20 PSI in this picture.

3. Rattle type electric fuel pump installed in front of the mechanical pump kit for a 4bt (for priming)
4. Eventually, the old VE pump started weeping diesel. Replaced the mechanical pump with a diaphragm piston pump - Got a couple more years out of the seals - old age - the drips eventually returned.
5. Installed a fresh electric Edelbrock priming pump (not sure why - probably upgrading the rubber fuel lines). Discovered that the Edelbrock pumps are not draw-through.
6. Remove the diaphragm lift pump and installed the twin Edelbrock pump setup described below.
Speedometer Odometer Gauge Motor vehicle Tachometer

Shows a more reasonable 6 PSI. I like seeing the digital number at a quick glance.

And the installation details (first, another cup of coffee)...

Motor vehicle Hood Automotive fuel system Automotive tire Tread

A very busy picture. From the bottom left:
1. Modified banjo fitting on the fuel filter output, drilled with a 1/4" tube brazed in
2. 1/4" fuel injection rated rubber hose
3. Tee to a ball valve (this is the highest point in the fuel system.
4. Not seen - 1/4" pipe plug on the ball valve (keeps dirt out of the ball valve (an OCD item...))
5. Vibration clamp (heater hose spacer)
6. GlowShift snubber valve (read below for comments on Cummins lift pumps destroying electric fuel senders)
7. GlowShift fuel pressure sender
8. Wires to gauge

Link to Glow Shift fuel pressure gauges:

The kit as received:
Electrical wiring Audio equipment Font Gadget Gas

NOTE: The snubber valve was a purchased option.

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Snubber valve close-up. The pulses from a diaphragm or mechanical pump eventually wear out the electric pressure sender. NOT REQUIRED for the Edelbrock pump, it supplies a steady fuel pressure.

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Back side of the gauge - the small connectors are a bit "fiddley" - I've had some intermittent problems over the years (still working). I bought them because I liked having both analog and digital displays. I found the multiple background colors sort of gimmicky. Another member here calls them "GlowShit". Mixed reviews - I am hesitant to recommend them. Maybe a different brand of digital fuel pressure gauge??

A mechanical gauge option that has my highest recommendation:

Requires the separate purchase of an electrical fuel pressure sender.

I used them in this F150, an IH Scout II and an IH pickup truck. The only failure was over pressuring the fuel sender with a mechanical lift pump. In your application, the Edelbrock has a steady pressure and NO fuel snubber will be required.

Out of coffee;),
Russ
 
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uss, if you are running the piston type low pressure pump then you will have higher pressure than the diaphragm pump. Those piston models usually run around 14 PSI at the lift pump and around 10 PSI at the injection pump. I've always wondered just how accurate some of the gauges are for fuel pressure. Hewitt Industries makes a dual pressure gauge which would allow a reading before and after the filter. This is a pure mechanical gauge not exactly cheap at $149.90. That does not include the isolators which are recommended. They guarantee accuracy within 2%. These are aircraft certified.
 

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My gauges read at the injection pump (banjo bolt on the output of the engine mounted fuel filter). I have never run a fuel filter long enough to see an output fuel pressure drop (pure luck in not getting a tank of bad diesel...). I personally believe that the fuel pressure drop across a new fuel filter is less than one PSI. I beleive that the 3 or 4 PSI fuel pressure drop is the spec for changing out a clogged fuel filter. I carry a spare fuel filter. I learned two things in CDL school:
1. Always carry a spare fuel filter
2. Always use the rest room before driving off

Out to the F150 for actual A/B fuel pressures on the Edelbrock fuel pumps:
1. Static fuel pressure (Key on, 4bt NOT running): 7 & 8 PSI
2. Running fuel pressure (about 1,500 RPM in neutral): 6 & 7 PSI
3. I need to get it out on I-10 and climb some hills at 75 MPH on the cruise control.

I've driven this set-up to OK and back - did not notice any fuel pressure issues - did not specifically record any data...

Russ
 
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