Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner

341 - 360 of 361 Posts

·
Selling 4bt & 6bt parts to all of N.America
Joined
·
455 Posts
the Edelbrock # 17302 is rated at 38 GPH at 4-7 PSI. I am seeing 7 PSI after the fuel filter.\
I hope that pump is an updated/upgraded Edelbrock pump from the same pump I looked at for our 2001 golf tdi back in early spring. What I could find out about it on the net wasn't good. Reviews were generally bad. most failed within short order.
Not saying it was the exact model number as I don't remember the # but it was the Edelbrock green diesel one that looks exactly the same. I passed on it because of the reviews. I took a fast look on Amazon with that part # and only 2 reviews so must be a different model, as there was a ton of 1&2 stars when I looked back in spring.

Char is right, the correct mechanical piston pump should put out 14psi, which is safe for the VE Inj pumps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Russ McLean

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #342
Mark,

Not a lot out there on the Edelbrock # 17302 green pump. I think that this series of pumps are a recent design, I did Google search and found a 2017 magazine article referring to these as a new design.

My VE pump is on a 1986 4bt. I suspect Continental Baking / Hostess, and a couple of other previous owners put lots of miles on this pump before I got it.

I was planning to send the pump and injectors out for a rebuild. I have run into some obstacles, the first being replacing the TDC timing pin on the timing case. I now have 2 each T-25 bits that have spiral splines. Second, I am a little "goosey" about removing and replacing a timing gear that does not have a key.

The 7 PSI electric pump has solved the drip, so I will drive it until it dies (at 74 years old, I might go first...).

This is an "accidental" repair. The electric pump was installed to avoiding flipping the priming lever a bazillion times.

I will do a write up after I get the dual electric pump setup installed and road tested.
 

·
Selling 4bt & 6bt parts to all of N.America
Joined
·
455 Posts
Russ, hope the pump works out for you.

As far as the plastic timing pin, they are next to useless. Don't worry about it as they can only get you close (usually within 2-3degs of being accurate). I haven't used one in over 25 years of working with the cummins.
The VE pump gear does have a keyway by the way. Don't let the motor intimidate you !!! Read up on things, mark things (index) and ask if you don't understand.
Cheers
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #344
... Don't let the motor intimidate you !!! Read up on things, mark things (index) and ask if you don't understand.
Cheers
Thanks. It appears that I am mixing up "VE" and "P" pump replacement instructions in my head.

I have not worked on the injection pump or the timing case. While the 4bt was still in the Grumman van, it got sent out for the KDP fix, 3,400 RPM spring, fresh Ford alternator and repair-sleeve behind the front pulley. I at a "life-has-other-plans" moment and my friend could use some side income. I have adjusted the valves a couple of times, and replaced the oil pan when I swapped the engine. Other than the dripping IP, I have had zero problems with 4bt.

Can't say zero problems about the $1,000 Craigslist truck, learning curve on driveline angles, or the "Ford-has-a-better-idea" concentric hydraulic throwout bearings...

There is a saying: "If it is not broke, don't try to fix it". My wife and I often use the phrase "Not sufficiently broken..." I still have enough power to get a speeding ticket anywhere in Arizona (and not exceed 2,000 RPM). With the lower fuel pressure, I just might get several more years out of the 4bt (it is not our primary vehicle and not our only "fun" vehicle). I am just going to drive it until it quits.

Stay tuned, my adult kids are coming in for the January Roadkill Zip-Tie Drags in Tucson. We might break it...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #345 (Edited)
More follies

... Other than the dripping IP, I have had zero problems with 4bt.

Can't say zero problems about the $1,000 Craigslist truck, learning curve on driveline angles, or the "Ford-has-a-better-idea" concentric hydraulic throwout bearings...
I installed dual electric pumps (the little Edelbrock green diesel pumps mentioned above) complete with check valves to isolate them. My former piston lift pump was running 18 to 19 PSI. These pumps are controlled by a toggle switch (I ain't going out there without backup). One pump runs 7 PSI and the other pump runs 8 PSI. AND my VE injection pump no longer drips. We put a couple hundred miles on it and I was planning a 500 mile round trip......

This morning, on a trip to town, the clutch pedal went low (M2R5 trans). Looks like another hydraulic slave cylinder failure - This will be the 4th <sigh>.

On a more positive note, the 1962 Volvo cruise control installation was successful.
Nerf bar - rough draft - Low res.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,893 Posts
I believe that transmissions is a M5R2. LOL. Strange you've had that many slave failures. Those may not be the ideal setup, but 4 in the time you've had that truck seem very excessive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
651 Posts
Does seem weird; any chance the slave and master cylinders are not matched? Could be over-pressurizing and causing damage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #348
I believe that transmissions is a M5R2. LOL. Strange you've had that many slave failures. Those may not be the ideal setup, but 4 in the time you've had that truck seem very excessive.
Char, thanks for the correction, M5R2 it is (Maybe I should read my own signature line...).

More details (with a cup of coffee in my band). The hydraulic clutch assembly is a "Johnny Cash" special with pieces of 3 generations of Ford F150 parts and a home modified push rod for the clutch master cylinder. The pedal is the original 1986 assembly. The transmission is from a 1997 F150 (4.2L engine), with the Metric bellhousing bolt holes drilled out a few thousands to the correct SAE size. The 1986 firewall was cracked around the clutch master cylinder - I patched and re-enforced this area. The clutch master cylinder is 1987 up, with the firewall re-drilled for the new mounting hole location. The push rod is a replacement from NAPA, with lots of "Swiss milling" (i.e. hand filed to fit...). The details are buried in my build thread. The hydraulic line and the slave cylinder are replacement units for the 1997 F150.

My best guess is that something was not quite right with my "throw-it-together" (i.e. my ASSumptions bit me in the ass). Or I have worn out the pivot bushing at the clutch pedal (the original was almost worn thru). Or the firewall is cracking again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #349
Does seem weird; any chance the slave and master cylinders are not matched? Could be over-pressurizing and causing damage?
Thanks, Ryan. The master and slave are both for a 1997 Ford F150. I was typing when you posted this, there are more details in my next post.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
248 Posts
I believe that transmissions is a M5R2. LOL. Strange you've had that many slave failures. Those may not be the ideal setup, but 4 in the time you've had that truck seem very excessive.
As a fellow M5R2 user, I’ll testify that the slave is a valid culprit even if it is every 2 years. It certainly feels excessive...as have my multiple replacements my over the years. Definitely check elsewhere for trouble...but don’t be surprised if it’s the concentric slave (yet again).

-Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,893 Posts
Mike, wouldn't think Ford would have wanted to be replacing those every 2 years under warranty. Wonder if it could be some cheaper, substandard, aftermarket parts that are causing all the distress. There were an awful lot of those transmissions used in both Ford and Mazda. Maybe Mazda parts were better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #352
Thanks for the replies. It will be a while before I get back to it.

I am retired and I have some fun screw-offs on the calendar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #353
The hydraulic clutch stopped leaking (for a short while)

Zip-Tie #1 - Low res - Cropped.jpg
We had a family reunion at the Roadkill Zip-Tie Drags (late January in Tucson, AZ), 4 out of 5 kids, 2 spouses and 3 granddaughters. I'm driving the F150, my son in law in our Volvo, and 2 daughters in the late model Nissan Frontier (taking this picture). Both the F150 and the Volvo (not quite stock...) ran in the 19 second region. They ran us side by side, the Volvo left faster, but the 4bt turbo eventually pulled in front.

The next morning, pulling out of the motel parking lot, the clutch pedal stayed on the floor... Fortunately, I've been here before - Slip toe under the clutch pedal, bump the pedal twice and start over. I watched the kids race that day. Got it home without incident (frequently checking the master cylinder fluid levels). Parked it until 2 weeks ago.

At 73 years old, I was not "enthusiastic" about pulling the M5R2 <<AGAIN>>. Should take me one long day, more like 9 days with "life having other plans" and just plain wore out some days.

TECH TIP: Vacuum bleeding does not work, I ended pulling air around the seals.

I did find new parts made from aluminum instead of injection molded plastic - From my notes:
- New parts: Metal master (Autozone Duralast 10334), line (Autozone Dorman 628-201) and metal slave (Oreilly PowerTorque CS2248)

The PowerTorque slave had an improved catch mechanism on the hydraulic input connector. Gets my thumbs up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oshpunit987

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #354
Just crawled under and did one more bleed - AND got dripped on by diesel fuel... One of my latest revisions is dual Edelbrock electric fuel pumps, with a toggle switch, so I always have a spare available at a flip of a switch ("Brain storm" or "Brain fart", the answer is not clear at this point...).

1 Ball valve (shut off, so I can maintain the pumps), 2 "Tee" connectors, 2 electric pumps, 2 check valves, approximately 24 connections that could leak...

To shorten the story, the shaft of the ball valve is leaking (one drip every few seconds). AND I just filled the tank on my way home.

Off to Ace Hardware/Lowes/Home Depot to look for a better quality 1/4" NPT ball valve - if that fails, the next largest size valve and some reducers.

Then about a 200 mile sight seeing trip tomorrow to bleed the tank down. Then I can jack stand the front of the truck up high and tank won't drain down my sleeve and off of my elbow...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,893 Posts
Russ, got to have a few leaks and drips to keep you on your toes or back. LOL. All ball valves aren't created equal. About 30 years ago I needed one for a hydraulic application. I found a local company that specialized in that sort of thing and bought one. It was stainless steel and rated in the stratosphere for pressure. Still have it and it's never leaked a drop. I do remember it wasn't cheap even way back then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #356
Charlie, thanks. This ball valve came from a large mail order that I did. It is quite compact and I suspect that it was make for a compressed air application (also was made the the Peoples Republic of Tinpanistan...). I actually have a spare in stock, but, I am going to look for something more substantial. I am going to try Ace hardware first, since I have good luck with their ball valves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #357
2019 05 04 New ball valve.jpg
New Ace Hardware ball valve on left, twin of old ball valve on right. I've had good luck with the Ace ball valves. Maybe tomorrow I'll crawl under.

I ran a couple hundred miles today, wanted to drain the fuel tank down some. Had a little problem on the way home.
2019 05 04 Flat tire.jpg
I-10, Texas Canyon (between Willcox and Benson, AZ). I did not feel a thing, just heard the tire flapping. I got lucky and found a relatively flat spot at end end of the guard rail. I had all the tools, so the wheel swap went well (a little slower at age 74...)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
946 Posts
Russ,
Sort of lucky with the tyre, last trip away pinged both inner rears ( about 40 miles apart). The bangs were impressive. Ended up running for 30 odd miles with a single to a tyre shop. Kind of raped on the price for two new tyres to get home. My own fault the tyres had a few years on them but running dual and light load thought I was OK. Wrong!
Bit of panel beating to the running boards but the body was OK.

Now need to sell those two tyres as they were not matching size to the rest.

The fun of touring.
Cheers Steve
 
  • Like
Reactions: Russ McLean

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,634 Posts
Discussion Starter #359
The leak came back on the Bosch VE pump. Since we have other cars and trucks, I only drove it occasionally (Diesel fuel is only "slightly" more flammable than a vanilla milkshake :eek: ). I had to do something when it drip passed once-a-second.

I am at another life-has-other-priorities stage of life. My mother in law feel and broke her arm. 8 weeks in a rehab facility (caught COVID, not life threatening for her, but she now requires oxygen). We finally got her moved to an apartment in assisted living.

130440

A couple weeks back, I took a break from pushing paperwork, and removed the VE pump. Sometime in the past, it received a rebuild - Maybe when Continental Baking or Hostess owned the engine. The pump does not owe us anything, 12 years ago, we bought a running 1986 Grumman van for $800. Unknown miles on the engine, the latest (3rd) speedometer shows 71+K miles.

Note that this VE pump has a mechanical shutoff lever. I wanted to eliminate the electrical fuel shutoff solenoid and go to mechanical only shutoff (the wiring on this 1986 F150 occasionally hands me another surprise). I considered ordering a new VE pump from Dieseltuff (nascarmark), but the new pumps no longer have a mechanical shutoff lever.

Scout4bta had good luck with Perkins Diesel Service in Mesa. AZ. I UPSed them my pump and 2 days later got a report back on the pump condition (tired, brittle seals, going to need new internal parts, but rebuildable). A few days later I had it back.

Then got busy with the move. Finally got the pump installed, primed quickly and fired right off. Got out today and put about 90 miles on it, including a 75 MPH run up a steep hill on I-10. Very happy.

130441

HINT: Buy one of these wrenches before attempting an injection pump removal. I did it without this tool, it kicked my 76 year old tail... I removed the air conditioner compressor (unbolted and moved it aside - without discharging the system) and the vacuum/power steering pump (Dodge unit) to give me more room to work.

The biggest struggle was extracting the engine barring tool from the flywheel housing - it did not want to come out - I was hanging over the fender and working with my arms fully extended.

Russ
 

·
Premium Member
1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
Joined
·
2,660 Posts
Russ, Sorry I forget to mention this to you. The old brain sometimes keeps ideas hidden.
Another trick I found to get at the "hidden" nut on the VE pump is to drop the power steering pump. Leave it attached and, then you can get to the hidden nut with a swivel socket.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Russ McLean
341 - 360 of 361 Posts
Top