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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #21
Slight change of plans. Years back I'd bought 2 HE221W's, one for the scout 4BT and one for the Willys 4BT.
Turned out the second engine for the Willys was a core, rings rusted to the cylinders. Went looking for another 4BT, bought a Ppump 4BT out of a MT35. Ended up not needing the spare HE221. Fast forward to today, The Willys isn't being built, the wife now has the KJ, what to do with the spare HE221, put it on the P pump.
The previous adapter I made was a bolt on. This one is a weld on and is made from Ductile Cast Iron, so much easier to work with.
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The stock HX30W that came on the P pump engine is probably just about as good as the HE221W. The HE might spool a tad faster but you might not notice much difference. If you were planning any serious power mods to the P pump I'd probably look at a 44mm or 46mm HX30W. The 44mm would be ideal if twins might be in the plan. The 46mm Super would be the largest single recommended. Can always sell the HE221W and possibly break even.
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #23
I agree there is nothing wrong with the stock HX30 that came with the P pump. The prices for the HE221 have dropped below a HX30 and I paid too much for mine so going to use it. Plus I've acculmated most of the parts to make is fit.
The plan is to mount the HX30 from the P pump on my my non running VE engine along with a complete Dodge fan, AC and alternator. Will see if it sells or may be find a use for it.
 

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I assume you're going to cut off the flange from the manifold and weld on your new one? Looking forward to how that works out.
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #25
I assume you're going to cut off the flange from the manifold and weld on your new one? Looking forward to how that works out.
I thought about how to attach the adapter and the easiest way would be weld it to the existing flange. If the flange was cut off I'd be welding thick to thin cast iron, Not what I want to do for my first venture in welding cast iron. For welding thick cast iron you should use a "U" bevel @ 60°. At least that what the specs for the Royal 44-30 wire says that I'm using. And I'll be doing the welding relatively cold (150° F), no major preheating.
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I thought about how to attach the adapter and the easiest way would be weld it to the existing flange. If the flange was cut off I'd be welding thick to thin cast iron, Not what I want to do for my first venture in welding cast iron. For welding thick cast iron you should use a "U" bevel @ 60°. At least that what the specs for the Royal 44-30 wire says that I'm using. And I'll be doing the welding relatively cold (150° F), no major preheating. View attachment 128759 View attachment 128760 View attachment 128761 View attachment 128762 View attachment 128763
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... And I'll be doing the welding relatively cold (150° F), no major preheating.
150 degrees F is easy in AZ, just leave it out in the direct sun for at least 30 minutes.
 
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Discussion Starter #28
150 degrees F is easy in AZ, just leave it out in the direct sun for at least 30 minutes.
I'm using a 2' sq window pane sitting on top of a 2' sq corrugated box for my solar oven. Before the rain i checked the temp at over 165°F
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Actually recorded 230℉ in 30 minutes.
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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #30
Took a full day to weld it up. Once it got hot from welding didn't need to use the oven. Just keep the welds short, less that 1 inch at a time.

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Which thermostat housing to use?
First choice, housing from 2nd gen Dodge but the SJ radiator inlet is on the passenger side. Hose would have to make 2 180° bends.
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Next is the straight forward outlet, hose would probably hit the fan.
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3rd, the straight up option. Maybe.
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Last option, housing from 89-91.5 first gen Dodge Diesel, pre-intercooler. This will work and allowes me to keep the Wogoneer radiator. Trying to keep (reuse) as much of the factory parts as I can.
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The vertical one should do OK. Just have a hose with one 90 deg bend to point it forward. Lots of units that had that one used formed metal pipe with a short rubber hose on each end. Lower hoses were metal too. That way you could carry a spare hose in the glove box. That special hose came from Gates and it isn't cheap. I checked my industrial catalog and all those had the vertical outlet. They had a 22" diameter fan. Don't care much for that early style Dodge. Front facing one would be fine if it would clear.
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #33
The vertical one should do OK. Just have a hose with one 90 deg bend to point it forward. Lots of units that had that one used formed metal pipe with a short rubber hose on each end. Lower hoses were metal too. That way you could carry a spare hose in the glove box. That special hose came from Gates and it isn't cheap. I checked my industrial catalog and all those had the vertical outlet. They had a 22" diameter fan. Don't care much for that early style Dodge. Front facing one would be fine if it would clear.
The bottom hose probably will have some metal. I have one that I made up for the Scout before I changed radiator, some minor soldering will make it fix.
I looking for a mechanical fan about 18'-20" dia, found that even in the heat of AZ don't need a 22" fan (Dodge).
 

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Where are you putting your alternator? If you're keeping the ram 6bt alternator location, the third option is the best bet.
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #35
Where are you putting your alternator? If you're keeping the ram 6bt alternator location, the third option is the best bet.
I'm using the complete early Dodge 6B accessory drive, AC mount, Alternator and Thermostat housing. The AC compressor with be Sanden 4822 instead of the factory Dodge. Could not find a conversion to mount threaded ports on the Dodge compressor. The Sanden has the same asymmetrical bolt pattern but has the threaded ports.
Dodge alternate AC compressor_Sanden 4822_.jpeg
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #37
Why are the threaded ports important? The clamp-on style manifold is pretty convenient.
The clamp on style manifold comes with the lines attached to the block, very Inconvenient for a custom installation.
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There are manifold block conversion with threaded ports for GM but not much else.
The AC line in the pic is about $40-$45. The Dodge AC compressor is about $250 and The Sanden Is about the same price. And there are Chinese knock offs much cheaper.
The threaded ports only require a "O"ring if need be when you disconnect the line.
 

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1989 Jeep Wagoneer, 360v8, 727, stock for now,
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Discussion Starter #38
Following the building up of my previous build, added a bung for the EGT. I wanted to mount it just as the exhaust enters the turbo but trying to drill through the weldment wan't going to happen. The added nickel to the weld wire makes it really tuff. Tried 2 time with new 1/8" drill bits, all I succeeded in getting was dull drill bits.
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For the heater grid, the P pump engine comes with a spacer under the air horn. Used the left over heater grid internals from the Scout build and made them fit. You can't buy the internals parts and for a few hours on the mill I was able to convert the spacer to a heater grid. Also cut the spacer down 1cm to get a lower profile.
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