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Discussion Starter #1
i had this posted in the personal intros section but figured it might get more views here.

basically heres a short story. got a drift/track car, wanted to do something totally different and eye catchy. i love diesels, so i figured why not drop a 4bt into my racecar.

heres the chassis.

still lots to do to the chassis. was supposed to be at the machine shop i work at at the begining of the month to get caged, and tube the front end and lighten it up a bit.....but.....we bought a water jet thats coming next week so we had no room to store and work on my car. im more excited for the water jet anyways.

so chassis's at a stand still till the shop gets reorganized, still have a few suspension parts and interior things to buy in the meantime.


onto the new heart beat.


heres the 1999 cummins 4bt from a ford. had a new ve pump, and rebuild 50,000 miles ago(so im told). got alot to do to the engine.

so far i have:
-POD injectors
-dennyT stage 2 pin
-arp head studs
-3200gov spring

i plan to buy the rest of the parts asap.
future parts:
-hamilton 188/220 cam
-hamilton extreme duty pushrods
-hamilton 165-170lb valve springs(higher rpm version)(ordered/on its way)
-4200gov spring(ordered/on its way)
-holset hx40
-holset hx60
-steed speed manifold
-custom intake made by myself
-top mount intercooler
-fluid dampner
-high pressure lift pump?
-**whatever else i end up needing**

drivetrain wise im going to be running a t56 magnum(rated at 700lb ft) and going to try to fit a IRS ford 9" with 3.5 gears in my subframe some how.

building the car mainly for track use, and ocasional drive to work/mess around in the windy mountain roads. hence why im building it as more of a high rpm race engine and not a fun economical money saver.

anyway onto few questions.

i read on here somewhere about the stock lift pump not being high enough pressure to support fueling up in the 4000+rpm range. is there a high pressure alternative? only non stock ive come across is the tennesee diesel low pressure pump, will this help enough to fuel into the higher range?(ve pumped). is there a way to boost the low pressure pumps pressure with additional inline pumps spoon feeding the lift pump?

what clutches/flywheels/adapters should i be looking at if im running a small block chevy t56 magnum transmission? or am i going to be doing a lot of machine work to make my own custom kit?

ive also been looking for an "air intake block off" so that if the engine does start to run away i can pull a cable and release a door/flap that blocks my turbos inlet off, ive seen them on big tractor pullers...anyone know where i can buy one?

im sure ill have more questions, this sites been helping alot with what ive learned so far just from browsing thru threads. hopefully ill have this car built and on a dyno in the next couple months so ill be having some fun updates along the way. im actually also debating entering it in a tractor pull at a local fair just for laughs, and becuase my friend constantly pokes fun at the build reffering to it as my "2012 kubota tractor build".

thats it for now, ill update more as i start to toss the engine together and figure out what im doing.

-tj
 

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Interesting project. First as to your question on lift pumps. You can't use a high pressure lift pump with a ve injection pump. It will blow the seals out of it. You can get a piston low pressure version or better yet go with an aftermarket electric model. If you're building a serious hp engine might want to think about a P pump instead of the ve. More potential power. As for your turbos I'm not sure a 4bt can spool a HX40/HX60 combo. A HX35/HX50 might be more likely. Some of the guys who run compounds can help you there. With the kind of boost you'll have you better have it fire ringed. One item you didn't mention would be a full engine balancing and probably a bottom end girdle. Probably ought to have the rods polished as well. They're not unbreakable. As for clutch and flywheel Southbend and Valair are two companys that could help there. Probably will need some front suspension work. You'll be dropping in an engine that is heavier than a 454 Chevy. The T56 may or may not hold up with this engine. There has been a lot of discussion on the forum just recently about that very issue. Only time will tell. This should be one wild ride with gear shreading capability. Can't wait to see how it comes out.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i plan on switching to a p pump at sometime in the future, but right now i dont have the extra cash to be doing that, so i wanna get all i can out of the VE. im not trying to build a huge hp engine, just trying to make it a torque monster with good high boost response.

i read somewhere about the hx40/60 being a good setup, but it could have been false....i have no idea, but ill do what ever people on here suggest since they know more about these engines and what works with them then i do.

as for fire rings and full engine balancing and girdle and polished rods, it will all come in due time, i figured the VE pump wouldnt be able to supply nearly enough fuel to light up a hx40/60 to full boost so fire rings werent really of main concern. fire rings would be simple for me to do since i work in a machine shop. so ill look into that a bit if its nessecary.

i was looking into a girdle, since it will help more with prolonging the life of the engine no matter what i end up doing to it.

was kinda hoping to wait on the engine balance untill next winter when i build a second motor, i wont always be in the 4000+ range, probly closer to 3000-3500 using the 4000+ as wiggle room in the areas where if i had a 3200 spring id have to upshift and downshift constantly. for now tho the fluid dampner will hopefully save the engine from a bit of harm.

t56 magnum should hold up, i know diesels have an unnatural low end torque that normal gasser transmissions arent built for but being garunteed for 700lb ft and proven to handle it shows it has at least a fighting chance.

right now i have 8k springs on the front of my car, they are pretty stiff and can handle quite a bit, but if i drop the engine in and i see them sag a bit ill just swap them for a higher set. this engine wieghs about 150lbs more then some of the gasser inline 6's people put in these cars, so im not horrible worreid about it. but like i said, front end is getting tubed and reinforced to reduce as much body flex as possible.

thanks for the help, suggestions and answers! i realy apreciate it becuase even if im doing something wrong im learning more about the engines when you guys correct me =]

-tj
 

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You should look into a performance HE351VE with a fleece controller, its what I’m running in my Tacoma. With the programmability of the controller I feel it should be better then twins
 

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Discussion Starter #6
so ive been looking more and more into the compound setup. i keep finding conflicting info about running a hx40 over hx60, so instead of wasteing money a turbo setup i 50% chance of hating i figured id do something that will undoubtedly be a very quick spool up with ability to boost to 80+ if i feel the need to.

that said ive been looking into the borg warner s300/s400 setups, ive read alot of info suggesting that this setup is very qucik to spool and can meet very high boost levels if need be. so i went to shopping around for some turbos and found some im looking into and would appreciate a bit of extra intelegence from those who use compounds alot and know there stuff.

for the high pressure(closest to the manifold):
s300sx 8375
7-blade compressor, compressor wheel = 60mm inducer/83mm exducer, 1.00 A/R, flows ~68lb/min

im pretty set on using this as the smaller turbo, its the s400 ijm drawing a blank on as i dont want to go to small or to large.

low pressure:
s400sx 67mm FMW
91mm compressor wheel OD(exducer size), 83mm turbine wheel, 1.25 A/R, flows ~94 lb/min

OR

s400sx 71mm(s372)
7 blade compressor, compressor wheel= 71.08mm inducer/100.2mm exducer,1.25A/R

OR

s400sx 74mm(s374/s375)
7 blade compressor, compressor wheel = 74.7mm inducer/100.2mm exducer, 1.25A/R

OR

s400sx 76mm
compressor wheel = 76mm inducer/105mm exducer, 87mm turbine, 1.25A/R


not sure if i should venture into the 80mm+ turbos, but im sure those who know compounds know which turbos are which and all the specs. i was looking more into using the s300 over a 71mm s400(s372). any info is appreciated im going to continue researching on my own. thanks.

-tj
 

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Awesome project! I always enjoy the one off stuff! If there ever was a need for a supercharged 4bt this is it in my opion. Cummins with VE pumps tend to drop off power past 3000rpm for the most part. Unless its built for a specific rpm range like a sled puller. I think smaller turbos will make you happier in the long run, because street/drift cars are more about instant power (not always time to spool up.) A 351cw turbo isn't a bad start as mention earlier. A supercharger/turbo setup would be great on this!
 

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You should look into a performance HE351VE with a fleece controller, its what I’m running in my Tacoma. With the programmability of the controller I feel it should be better then twins
Sorry not trying to hijack, Just curious if Fleece has released a standalone controller for the he351ve. I had heard one was in the works but haven't heard if it's been released. Let me know thanks!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Havent had much going on engine wise, still undecided about turbo setups. Waiting on to many parts that are on back order so ive just been hammering away at the chassis getting it prepped for when the engines ready to drop in and trying to figure out what weight to add where to try and balance the car out once its all finished. I got at least another month and a half of chassis work to hold me over so hopefully my engine parts start arriving in the meantime so i can start reasembleing that. Probly looking at 3 months(in a perfect world) before cars running then its time to have fun.
 

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moving the battery to the trunk to help the weight balance might look quite obvious... btw have you ever considered a dual-battery setup to ease cold-start (since you could run a higher-power starter motor and get some electric heating pads)?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yes battery will definetly be in the trunk area. Didnt think about the dual battery thing but now that u mentioned it i probably will do it since ill benifit from it in multiple ways. Glad u mentioned it before i went and made the rear framework that holds the fuelcell and batteries to keep them out of the drivers compartment, cuzz i really hate cutting things apart after i took the time to make it once lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
uptdates....right, uhmm this is harder and more expensive then previously imagined HAHA. but im still pushing forward.

first i appologize for lack of photo updates in this post, my iphones being a real pain lately since i droped it in water and my computer isnt recognizeing it as a compatable usb device.

anyways,

lately ive been doing alot of work on my friends racecar since its alot closer to being done and theres big events coming up that he would like to drive. so i made the choice to stop any kind of progress on my car and help him get his running and ready. he has the same chassis/car as me except with the factory engine (KA24DE), built up of course. its turboed and running c16(80$ for 5 gallons sucks!!!), pushing 450-500hp to the wheels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GWGd1_0uzU

now that we got that running and its got a nice base tune on it and a dyno tune date set for this thursday ive got back into the zone on my car ordering parts and mocking things up, and making tons of phone calls to try and find a good enough trans to put behind this.



CAUTION LONG BLAH BLAH BLAH STORY ABOUT MY TRANS SELECTION AHEAD!!

so after calling a few companies about transmissions, i ended with G-FORCE. i talked to a guy there for a hour or so going over tons of stuff. at first i was looking into going with a 4 speed sequentail since it was strongest option, but he talked me out of it being that i would be limited to only having a direct drive and no over drive for the times id like to drive the car on the streets, so he gave me a few options 2 of which that stood out greatly were a GFORCE T56 6 speed and a GF3650 5 speed. after talking more to the guy he told me all sorts of info on the 6 speed and 5 speed, both are very strong transmssions and all internals are the same except for the obviouse double overdrive in the 6. the 5 speeds 5th gear is a .58 in comparison the 6 speed has a 6th gear of .52, so not much would be lost except that buffer gear between direct drive and final overdrive. upon talking more about the GF3650 i learned that the guy i was talking to was actually in the process of building a gf3650 for a duramax going into a chevelle(SWEEET). after finishing up our convo i had chosen to go with a gf3650. i then went on the computer in search of proof that this tranny will hold up and actually found that there was a time attack GMC truck running a duramax at 5000rpm and GFORCE 5 speed that does super well and has no drivetrain problems at all (I CAN SEE THE LIGHT!!!).


so i began getting my money set aside for the new GF3650 trans that i should be ordering in the next month or so, got my clutch all ready to be shipped out and installed when i order the trans, monster clutch level 6 single disc 900lbft 12" clutch with light wieght flywheel(hello snappy throttle).

onto the DIFF dilema, since i couldnt get enough wheel speed using the stock R200 diff at its lowest numerical gearing ive opted to make a custom mount that will utilize factory pick ups in my subframe and allow me to run a ford 8.8 IRS W/ 2.73 rear, this got me close to accpetable wheel speeds. and with addition of running 19" rear wheels ill be in a pretty good window for wheelspeed(only time will tell)


so for the time being im working on getting the engine to sit lower, and working on getting some of the parts i need to finish up the engine so thats ready to rock the second i get the trans in.

SLOWLY BUT SURELY ITS COMING TOGETHER!!!! and i cannot wait!

-TJ
 

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Hey looks good so far,
do you still intend to drift it with all that weight up front,
how do you get round the under steer issues??
I have a r32 skyline that i was looking at putting my 4bt into but decided against if for weight issues and under steer problems they have enough problems with the Rb conversions under steering.
SO i have decided to use the nissan rd28 diesel instead being that they will bolt straight in using nissan parts and dont have the height problems that the 4bt's have and are not much heaver than an RB engine conversion and can still make good power.
Keep up the good work...
 

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For the transmission, you won't need to go anywhere near as strong as a duramax powered pickup because you won't have the weight or traction to develop all the torque through the drive-line.
If you calculate out what your maximum traction will be, then that limits your maximum rear wheel torque. Wheel torque divided by axle ratio and gear ratios will give the maximum crank torque that you can use (plus a bit for losses on the way through and plus a bit for inertia during acceleration).

You can use this maximum torque to work out the maximum boost you'll be able to use and rough size your turbos from there. I think your current choices are bigger than you will ever need, which means you are giving away performance at the lower end. If it's for drifting isn't predictable power required more than nothing, nothing, everything?
 

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Hey looks good so far,
do you still intend to drift it with all that weight up front,
how do you get round the under steer issues??
I have a r32 skyline that i was looking at putting my 4bt into but decided against if for weight issues and under steer problems they have enough problems with the Rb conversions under steering.
SO i have decided to use the nissan rd28 diesel instead being that they will bolt straight in using nissan parts and dont have the height problems that the 4bt's have and are not much heaver than an RB engine conversion and can still make good power.
Keep up the good work...
car is being built to drift so yes by all means thats what it will do.
you get around understeer with suspension tuning, plain and simple. since my cars completely stripped and being redone tho i can add weight wherever i want.

will be really cool to see a r32 diesel. good luck with it and have fun!




For the transmission, you won't need to go anywhere near as strong as a duramax powered pickup because you won't have the weight or traction to develop all the torque through the drive-line.
If you calculate out what your maximum traction will be, then that limits your maximum rear wheel torque. Wheel torque divided by axle ratio and gear ratios will give the maximum crank torque that you can use (plus a bit for losses on the way through and plus a bit for inertia during acceleration).

You can use this maximum torque to work out the maximum boost you'll be able to use and rough size your turbos from there. I think your current choices are bigger than you will ever need, which means you are giving away performance at the lower end. If it's for drifting isn't predictable power required more than nothing, nothing, everything?

i agree, trans might be overkill, but id rather spend $$$$ once rather then spend $$$$ numerouse times.

i have no clue how to do any of those calculation things lol, im in no way smart enough to figure all that out. all i know is if i over build it, it has less chance of breaking.

as for turbo sizing and what not, again i have no clue, i just read what other people have done and try to base my judgement off that....if the setup does turn out to big i can always put the current high pressure turbo in the low pressure spot and run a smaller high pressure then put the big guy on my truck or lawn mower or something.
 

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cool project are you running a hood because that 4bt is tall, and what are you doing about the steering rack. I know with my RB s14 its close. what part of PA are you from maybe ill see you around some time at English town.
Asher
 
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