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Discussion Starter #1
I kind of kicked my build off this weekend. Did not get to spend as much time as I had liked, but I broke ground. This will be a long build that I carry out in phases first I want to get the 4BT into the Bronco and running so I can begin working out all the little bugs. In the meantime I will be stripping a '96 parts truck down to the frame and restoring the frame/suspension for the 94 body. Once the frame is ready I am going to completely strip and rebuild the 94 tub and put it on the rebuilt frame. Many changed will focus on modern creature comforts in an older vehicle and other such upgrades. But first thing first is to get the 4bt in there in place of the tired 351W.

This is the subject of the swap...


This is the 4BT. I understand it is out of a bread truck, and other than hearing it run when I picked it up - not much is known about it.




One of the first things I needed to do was flip it over and turn the pan around for rear sump. While I am in there, I also needed to check the crank thrust. I originally thought I had as much as .026" of movement in the crank, but with the pan off I was able to get a better measurement and only have about .010" of movement. Since this is within spec, I decided that I am not going to do anything outside of the rear sump swap under here for now.



I used a small punch to knock out the oil dip stick, and the plug where the dip stick will need to go and I swapped the two around. I used some rtv around the dip stick tube and the plug before tapping them back into their respective holes.



New oil suction tube mounted, and most of the gasket material cleaned off the block.


Unfortunatley, that was all I managed to get to for now. Next steps will be taking off the timing cover to perform a KDP fix, new front seal, and new rear main.
 

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Nice work! Looks like you're starting off with a clean OBS. If it has been taken care of, that will make your job of getting it to your specs that much easier.

I'm pretty sure you've got the baby H1C Holset on there. Not a terrible turbo, but word around here is the HX30W is a much better turbo. I've got one ordered that's supposed to be here tomorrow or the next day. There are a few members that have upgraded and have said it make the motor MUCH more responsive.
 

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Sounds like good plans. While you were in the bottom end it might have been good to inspect the main and rod bearings and replace or check the torque on the rod bolts. Curious who's transmission adapter you have there.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Nice work! Looks like you're starting off with a clean OBS. If it has been taken care of, that will make your job of getting it to your specs that much easier.

I'm pretty sure you've got the baby H1C Holset on there. Not a terrible turbo, but word around here is the HX30W is a much better turbo. I've got one ordered that's supposed to be here tomorrow or the next day. There are a few members that have upgraded and have said it make the motor MUCH more responsive.
Thanks, as I understand this is a 105hp engine so I would not be surprised if you're right about the turbo. Once it's powering the truck I do plan to do some performance upgrades to get her up to 200ish per the recipe thread here on the site.

Sounds like good plans. While you were in the bottom end it might have been good to inspect the main and rod bearings and replace or check the torque on the rod bolts. Curious who's transmission adapter you have there.
I have not buttoned the oil pan back up yet, I was going to leave it off until I get the seals replaced so I still may do that. The transmission adapter I thought was the stock one used in bread trucks with a ford transmission - does it not look right? I'll get a part number off of it tonight.
 

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That adapter may be the Ford unit. There's some brown tape or something on it that was throwing me off. If you should pull the rod caps to inspect the bearings, Cummins does not recommend reusing those bolts. Replace them with either new Cummins units or a higher grade aftermarket like ARP. Bearings for these things are cheap and it's always a good idea to take a look while you're in there. Could save a head ache later.Also, look at the piston cooling nozzles and make sure they are all in place and the ends not broken off.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Pulled the adapter out last night to look at the casting numbers, and from what I can tell it is the standard ford adapter used in the bread trucks with a T19. The casting on the flywheel is kind of hard to read, but while we are on the subject I plan to have the flywheel resurfaced and use it with the ZF5. Does anyone know what type of clutch I need to use? Do I just order an 11" ZF5 ford clutch per F350 application?

Adapter...



Flywheel...

 

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There should be several guys on here who can direct you to the right clutch assembly. Not sure if that flywheel will accept an 11". Was thinking iti is a 10.5". Members like Eggman or RussMclean will know. Eggman just put a ZF in his truck.
 

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... RussMclean will know...
Unfortunately, I do not know. I bought the wrong clutch last year -Said @#$%^&* and put the truck together with the old clutch still in place.
 

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Unfortunately, I do not know. I bought the wrong clutch last year -Said @#$%^&* and put the truck together with the old clutch still in place.
Went thru my documentation...

I used LUK repset# LUK 07128

11" Clutch.... GVWR under 8500 was 10" clutch... go to an F250 w/ the ZF and a 4.9L I6... was over 8500.... and went to 11"

repset comes with alignment tool, throwout bearing, clutch etc....

Each LuK RepSet contains everything you need to get the job done: new clutch, disc, release bearing, pilot bearing (where required), spline tool and lubricant.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Went thru my documentation...
I used LUK repset# LUK 07128
11" Clutch.... GVWR under 8500 was 10" clutch... go to an F250 w/ the ZF and a 4.9L I6... was over 8500.... and went to 11"
repset comes with alignment tool, throwout bearing, clutch etc....
Each LuK RepSet contains everything you need to get the job done: new clutch, disc, release bearing, pilot bearing (where required), spline tool and lubricant.
THANK YOU for that info, will save me quite a bit of searching I'm sure. Have you been happy with that particular clutch?


On a different note, I had a few spare minutes before work this morning so I took the front cover off just to see what I had going on prior to the weekend. Good new is that the KDP is still firmly in place, and I have this fix to put over it. I read that the new bolt will need red loctite and 18 ft/lb of TQ, correct?



Also, just as I was about to put the cover back over the gears to keep the dust out, I noticed that this gear looked like it was missing a nut of some sort. Is something supposed to be here?


 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
OK - so after looking at the B-series service manual I see that this is the snout of my VE pump and that it's supposed to have a lock washer and a nut on there. HOW the heck does someone not put that back on? And more importantly, how the heck did the engine run without any problems with that nut missing?

Finding some conflicting info on the net about the nut.

Apparently the thread is M14x1.5, but is there anything special about it? Or could I pick up a flanged grade 8 nut at a hardware store?

Also conflicting info out there about a lock washer and tightening tq. Cummins updated their manual to 175ft/lb supposedly?
 

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I don't think the VE pump torques to 175 ft lbs. That would be insanely tight. Even the P pump doesn't get that tight. That pump has a keyway on the shaft, so the nut and washer are just to keep it in place. From what I've found, you torque it to 48 ft lbs. That was from the Dodge 6bt service manual. However, I found another service bulletin that indicates VE pumps came with 2 different size nuts. There was an M12 and an M14. This bulletin shows a torque spec for the M12 as 48 ft lbs and the M14 as 72 ft lbs. http://www.engineprofessional.com/techbulletins/TB2013/Q2-2013/TB2613.pdf The Cummins part # for the nut is 3903738 (Case tractor J903738) and the washer is S-609 (Case # 80280248). Those aren't high dollar parts. Case shows them at $.70 and $.81. Here's a link to a diagram that may be useful. http://www.autoopt.ru/auto/catalog/engine/cummins/cummins-4BT3_9/29/ If your pump shaft is M14 then the nut is M14x1.50 and it is not a flange nut. May not be very common at the hardware store. What you've just found is a classic example of the condition of a "Good Running Engine". As far as the Loctite on the bolts, blue is usually good on those small bolts. About the only place red is spec'd is the flywheel bolts and harmonic balancer bolts. I'd recommend you remove all the small bolts behind the front cover, clean the holes with brake cleaner, and seal and retorque all those. What you just found tells you to do a thorough inspection.
 

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THANK YOU for that info, will save me quite a bit of searching I'm sure. Have you been happy with that particular clutch?
Theres one setup up from this from LUK... its the Gold Package....

I haven't ran the setup yet... but I think i remember most diesel guys going to the Gold Package....

LUK# 07909


I think rock auto is about $150
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I don't think the VE pump torques to 175 ft lbs. That would be insanely tight. Even the P pump doesn't get that tight. That pump has a keyway on the shaft, so the nut and washer are just to keep it in place. From what I've found, you torque it to 48 ft lbs. That was from the Dodge 6bt service manual. However, I found another service bulletin that indicates VE pumps came with 2 different size nuts. There was an M12 and an M14. This bulletin shows a torque spec for the M12 as 48 ft lbs and the M14 as 72 ft lbs. http://www.engineprofessional.com/techbulletins/TB2013/Q2-2013/TB2613.pdf The Cummins part # for the nut is 3903738 (Case tractor J903738) and the washer is S-609 (Case # 80280248). Those aren't high dollar parts. Case shows them at $.70 and $.81. Here's a link to a diagram that may be useful. http://www.autoopt.ru/auto/catalog/engine/cummins/cummins-4BT3_9/29/ If your pump shaft is M14 then the nut is M14x1.50 and it is not a flange nut. May not be very common at the hardware store. What you've just found is a classic example of the condition of a "Good Running Engine". As far as the Loctite on the bolts, blue is usually good on those small bolts. About the only place red is spec'd is the flywheel bolts and harmonic balancer bolts. I'd recommend you remove all the small bolts behind the front cover, clean the holes with brake cleaner, and seal and retorque all those. What you just found tells you to do a thorough inspection.
I thought 175 lbs sounded fishy too. I also saw 48 in the book I have. Sounds like I'll need to measure to see if it's an M12 or M14 tomorrow.

When you say to remove all the small bolts behind the cover and seal them what do you mean? What should I be using to seal? TIA

You know the crazy thing is that I heard this engine run before it was loaded into my truck, which makes this discovery that much more impressive to me.
 

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By sealing, I mean Loctite. It is a thread sealer. The bolts on the cam retainer and others inside the gear housing have a tendency to work loose. They can be just as bad as the KDP. Sometimes worse. Glad you caught that missing nut. That could have led to a damaged injection pump shaft and a whole lot of $$$.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I didn't get any pictures of the action, but I replaced the nut and lock washer on the injection pump. Mine ended being an M14x1.50. I also tightened all the small bolts for the gear case, and installed the KDP plate pictured above.

I put a new front crank seal in the cover and buttoned it back up.

This morning I dropped the flywheel off to be resurfaced, and ordered a clutch kit. With any luck I'll find some time to do the rear main and button the oil pan back on so that I can move on to disassembling the Bronco.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It's a busy time of the year for me so progress has been a little slow, but I've got flywheel and clutch ready to go, and the 4BT has been sealed back up so I've been spending my free time tearing down the Bronco. I am pretty close to having everything disconnected to slide the drivetrain out. All that remains is the exhaust, starter wiring, front driveshaft, and transmission wiring. Hoping to have it out this coming weekend. Maybe if I had better helpers...



 

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Discussion Starter #18
Finally starting to get to the good stuff. I pulled the 351W, E4OD, and transfer case all as one unit after unbolting the passenger side engine frame mount bracket. Shortly there after I discovered that the driver side frame bracket was riveted to the frame so it took a bit of time to cut off before I could continue.



I then mounted all of the front accessories that I have at the moment to the 4BT and mated it up to the ZF5 with a new Exedy clutch using the OEM adapter plate and flywheel (resurfaced) that came with the engine. I decided that I will put the transfer case on in the truck, which in the end was a good decision as this combo was difficult enough to manuver into the engine bay.



So now we get to mounting the 4BT in the Bronco frame, where I have a couple of options. I have 2 sets of frame brackets(300 I6 and '96 7.3 Ford) and 2 sets of mounts (2710 and 2469). The 300 frame brackets sit a little bit higher, but bolt right up to the Bronco frame. The 7.3 brackets sit flat, but the driver side requires some drilling to adapt.

300 I6:



7.3:



The 2710 and 2469 mounts are pretty much identical except the 2710 is thicker and has a larger rubber pad footprint.



Since it was the easiest path at the time, and because I was hoping it would work I attempted to attach the 4BT using the 300 I6 frame brackets and 2710 mounts (the thickest/tallest combination I had), which did not pan out. I forgot to take a picture, but I will add it later. Basically I got it set into place and bolted down, but when the transmission is lifted up into place, the rear valve cover on the 4BT is VERY close to the firewall, not enough space to remove the cover.

I ran out of time, but next weekend I will pull the engine back out will try again using the 7.3 frame brackets and 2469 mounts. Depending on how much clearance I end up with, I may slip the 2710 mounts back in just because I feel like they would absorb more vibration. Stay tuned...
 

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while it may suck... if you plan on running compounds eventually, move that thing forward! I will be re-doing mine when I swap frames and I might even notch the crossmember. It sucks having to buy 2 new driveshafts, but space is space.
Just a tip for the future.

If you can cut and weld, make your own plates. Easy and lets you get the engine in lower and where you want it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the tip Cam, I'll consider doing that on my spare frame when I am restoring it.

For now though I just want to get the engine in the truck and running so I can get a feel for what I want to do with it in the long run. I have never driven or owned a diesel vehicle before, let alone a 4BT.
 
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