[Pierce04]

Engine given to me for free. Came out of some sort of Case machine. I'm going to rebuilt it with all new turbo parts. Where is a good place to get everything from. Pistons, rods, cam, etc
I have it tore down and it does have the oil squirter in the block already. I'm trying to identify the injection pump to see if I can use it for on road use. The only number on the pump is a case number J931397. Can anyone tell me what pump this is? Attached are the only pictures I have at the moment. Any info is appreciated

The CPL is 2567. Rated at 60hp

 

[char1355]

First off, welcome to the forum. Your engine is one built for Case tractors by Cummins. Is the engine ID plate still on the front gear housing? If so, what is the engine serial number? I can tell you more about it if that number is there. Your injection pump is a Bosch model "A" pump which is a common one on industrial engines. Part J931397 is Cummins part 3931397 which is Bosch part F 002 A0Z 063 and Bosch model PES4A095D320/3RS2927. There should be a pump ID plate near the top about in the middle of the pump. Due to its low power output, I suspect your engine is a 4b not a 4bt. This means it is a non turbo engine. We've seen a number of those lately. First thing you must do is replace the pistons and rings. 4b pistons will not work with a turbo. Next, you'll need a turbo exhaust manifold, the turbo, and related plumbing. The last part may be the injection pump. Your pump may work with a turbo but was not designed for it. A Bosch "A" pump designed for a turbo would look like the photo below. That little device sitting on top of the pump regulates the fuel depending on turbo boost. Your pump doesn't have that. It may work OK but the fuel efficiency would not be as good. We don't have too many members who run the "A" pump. Most of the road engines had the Bosch VE injection pump. Must remember that the injection pump is the most expensive part on the engine. To change to a VE pump is not difficult but will be expensive. At the moment you have zero cost in the engine. It doesn't look to be that old but the black paint is a puzzle. To convert it to a turbo engine will cost you in the neighborhood of $1500-2000. That's for new pistons, exhaust manifold, turbo, and plumbing. Cost will depend on how well you shop or get lucky. A good turbo will cost you in the $600-800 range, exhaust manifold around $200, maybe a bit less, air and oil plumbing maybe another $200. and new pistons and rings around $500 or a bit less. Then you have to decide about the injection pump. If you change to a VE pump you will need the pump, lift pump, fuel plumbing, air plumbing, drive gear, new gear housing, injection lines, and injectors. With luck you might get out for $2000 but the cost could go higher. Even if you put $5000 into the engine including new bearings and seals, that's still about $3000 less than a rebuilt engine. These things aren't as cheap as they used to be. Your engine has an SAE transmission adapter and that can be used with some transmissions. You'll need a power steering pump and maybe a vacuum pump depending on what brake system you decide on. There will be some minor little things to work out but the turbo and injection system are the major ones. If you need part numbers for any of these parts I can provide those. If you have the serial number that will tell me what you have do we don't duplicate parts.

 

[Pierce04]

ESN - 46493107
I can not find any info on this engine. I'm guessing I am going to need and CPL and ESN from a p pump turbo engine so I can order parts. I have a lead on a p pump to purchase. If I end up with a p pump, can I reuse the front cover and everything I have?

 

[char1355]

ESN 46493107 does show on Quick Serve but the only parts available are gaskets. That was an exclusive CPL made for Case/New Holand and won't show on regular Quick Serve. OK, for your project there is only one road use P pump which is a P7100. Here is the Bosch ID plate that will be on that pump. If you find one that the last 4 digits in the model begin with the number 3 instead of 7 it is a P3000 which is similar but not the same.

For the rest of the parts I'll do some looking for you tomorrow. I'll give you the latest Cummins part numbers and you can go from there. The engine you're looking at has the Bosch A injection pump and I have industrial catalogs that have that. I suspect the front gear housing won't work because of the angle at which the pump is mounted. That P7100 is huge compared to an A. Injector lines would be another question. Injectors definitely won't work and will need to be changed. What power level are you planning? Also, do you want the turbo mounted low to the rear or on top?

 

[Pierce04]

I am picking up a used p7100 pump. I am planning on around 250 to 300 hp. The turbo will be mounted up top.

 

[char1355]

OK, you've chosen a power level that just about demands twin turbos. You can only go so big with a single because the engine won't spool it correctly. I need to know what kind of vehicle and transmission you plan on. Manual or automatic? Keep in mind that at that power level you'll have in the neighborhood of 600-700 lb ft of torque coming full on around 1700 RPM. That power level is no problem with the P7100. You will need to make a few adjustments to the pump but they aren't major or ultra expensive. I'll start on the turbo side of the engine with a single but keep in mind you'll likely need twins. No stock parts for that second turbo. You have to build your own brackets, braces, oil plumbing, and exhaust plumbing. With a high mounted turbo you will use one of two exhaust manifolds for the turbo. Cummins part 3901635 places the turbo in the center of the head up top. You can find that manifold in the $150-160 range. The manifold bolts are the same as the ones on the 4b manifold so you can reuse those if they are in good shape. Their part number is 3901448 should you need replacements. The second manifold places the turbo all the way to the first cylinder on the head. That manifold is part 4934697 which is sometimes miss identified as 4984697(no such part number as this in Cummins). This manifold is in the same price range as 3901635. There are 4 studs mounted in the exhaust plate where the turbo attaches. Part 3818823. Now for the big chunk of change, the turbo. There are 2 that I'd recommend. The first is the 44mm HX30W. The stock 4bt P pump engine used the 42mm version but the 44mm is identical in size and cheaper. These only come out of China but are genuine Holset parts. Beware of the ultra cheap copies. They are not the same. Here's what the 44mm looks like. Part number 4040353. Retails around $1000 but with some looking you can find it in the $600 range.

You will need an air outlet elbow 3918686, 1/8" NPT plug part 3008465, O ring seal part 3918952, and band clamp part 3918951. The outlet on that elbow is 2.5" which is the only one available for the standard HX30W. Now for the oil lines. Here is a drawing of those parts so here we go.

The oil feed parts are as follows:
5. 3909548 Oil Feed Hose
8. 3037236 O Ring Seal (2 req)
9. 3910801 Male/Female Fitting (2 req)
Parts 8 & 9 are usually bought as a unit under part 3919687.
The oil drain parts are as follows:
1. 43828A Hose Clamp (2 req)
2. 3900630 M8x1.25x20mm Flange Head Bolt (2 req)
3. 3903744 Oil Drain Pipe
4. 3903745 Plain Hose
6. 5264569 Gasket
7. 3944048 Turbo Oil Drain Pipe
These are the parts for a standard HX30W install in top center position. If you do twins the 44mm would be the best choice. If you want to try to do just one turbo the best one would be the Super HX30W. The manifold and oil drain parts would remain the same. All the other parts change for that turbo. Here's what that turbo looks like. Much the same as the standard model but some parts are bigger.

This one will require a different outlet elbow and oil feed line. The air outlet elbow is part 3918685 which will be 3" out. Uses the same 1/8" NPT plug 3008465, O ring seal part 3883284, and band clamp part 3069053. Diesel Tuff sells the oil feed line kit for $79.99. No Manufacturer Super HX30W oil feed line kit
This pretty well covers the turbo side of the engine. Should you decide to go twins, you should consider changing the oil cooler to a 6 plate unit like used in the 6bt and upgrade the oil pump. There will be some other mods involved in the twin system. I'll try to cover the injection system in another post.

 

[Pierce04]

Thank you very much for the info. I'm putting engine with a nv4500 5 speed transmission in a 1949 chevy 3100 2wd. I'm not planning on running twin turbo. Just a single. All I'm needing is what I'm going to need to rebuild the engine. Pistons, rods, bearings, cam, injectors, etc. I have seen different compression ratios and different injector spray patterns. I've already got everything to bolt up the transmission.

 

[char1355]

Well, I've had supper and recharged my battery. Now to the other parts. You've found an injection pump. There are a few mods you need to do to it for best performance. First, you need to change the governor springs. The NV4500 has lousy gear ratios for a 4bt so you need the ability to rev a bit higher for the 3-4 shift point. Those kits come in 3000 and 4000 RPM. You can use either. You won't be running at that speed, just on occasion. You need a new torque plate in the injection pump. A #10 would probably be the best. Neither of those parts are horribly expensive. The last mod is to advance the pump timing to 15.5 or 16 degrees. Those are safe limits. Now for more parts. The front gear housing for the A pump and P pump are not the same. There are 2 part numbers for the P7100, one old and one newer. Those parts are 3920519 (old number) and 3936256 (new number). Neither of those match any of a A pump housings. The front housing cover is also different and has part number 3923898. You will need one more bolt part 3900633. You can reuse the others from the A pump cover and transfer the timing pin to the new housing. You will need a new pump drive gear and pump support brackets shown in this diagram.

1. 3901445 M8x1.25x45mm Flange Head Bolt
2. 3902662 M10x1.50 Flange Head Nut (4 required to mount pump to gear housing)
3. 3907978 M10x1.50x50mm (4 required to mount pump to gear housing)
4. 3913366 M8x1.25x90mm Flange Head Bolt (2 required)
5. 3969698 Seal
6. 4003580 Fuel Pump Brace
7. 3927646 Fuel Pump Brace
8. 3928231 M8x1.25x25mm Round Head Cap Screw (2 required)
9. 3931382 Pump Gear
The nut and lock washer on the injection pump shaft are Bosch parts so they don't show in the Cummins parts list. The Cummins part is 3920921 and Bosch number 2 915 038 031. The lock washer doesn't show a special part number. Now comes the oil line for the P7100.

1. 3924346 T
2. 3920736 Oil Hose
3. 3921555 Male Fitting
4. 3921556 Cap
6. 139969 Nipple
This gets the injection pump attached to the engine and oil line service. I'll get back to you tomorrow on the rat's nest of fuel plumbing.

 

[char1355]

Now for the big mess. The fuel lines. Starting at the lift pump, that unit should be OK with the P7100 and the fuel lines leading up to the fuel filter unit. Should look something like this diagram.

Next is the fuel line leading to the injection pump.

1. 68152 Clip
2. 3093923 M8x1.25x14mm Flange Head Bolt
3. 3918192 Seal (2 required)
4. 3921333 Tube Brace
5. 3924725 Banjo Bolt M14x1.50x26mm
6. 3903315 Banjo Connector
7. 3911447 Banjo Connector
8. 3923527 Hose Clamp (2 required)
9. 3929785 Hose
Now the fuel drain from the injection pump.

1. 3900626 M6x1.00x12mm Flange Head Bolt
2. 3921652 Fuel Drain Tube
3. 3918192 Seal (2 required)
Now the air/fuel control plumbing.

1. 3900589 M8x1.25 Flange Head Hex Nut
2. 3902662 M10x1.50 Flange Head Hex Nut
3. 3910265 Male Elbow
4. 3991034 Plain Hose
5. 3938056 Plain Hose
6. 3920348 Clip
7. 3920719 Hose Clamp (4 required)
8. 3920803 Male Connector
9. 3930789 Street Pipe T
10. 3991513 Air Fuel Control Tube
11. 3927317 Elbow Hose Coupling
12. 3287128 Air Fuel Control Tube
Now, on the fuel filter diagram there is a special banjo bolt which has a bleed screw in it. You may or may not have this but I'll give you the numbers anyway. Here's the diagram.

1. 3925954 Filter Head Adapter
2. 3286503 Fuel Filter (Fleetguard FS1251)
3. 3963983 Sealing Washer (2 required)
4. 3911446 Banjo Bolt
5. 3939570 Captive Washer Cap Screw
Now comes the rats nest of injection lines and braces. You may have some of this with your existing lines but I'll list all the parts just in case.

1. 4942278 Banjo Seals (4 required)
2. 3905307 Banjo Bolt M6x1.00x14.3mm (4 required)
3. 3918109 M8x1.25x25mm Flange Head Bolt (2 required)
4. 3918188 Banjo Sealing Washer (2 required)
5. 3924726 Check Valve
6. 3927633 Fuel Manifold
7. 3904711 Tube Brace (2 required)
8. 3917717 Tube Brace (2 required)
9. 3917746 Vibration Isolator (8 required)
10. 3918784 Tube Brace
11. 3918785 Tube Brace
12. 3918786 Vibration Isolator (2 required)
13. 3920414 Tube Brace (2 required)
14. 3920854 M5x.80x24.5mm Captive Washer Cap Screw
15. 3928506 #1 Fuel Injection Line
16. 3928507 #2 Fuel Injection Line
17. 3928508 #3 Fuel Injection Line
18. 3928509 #4 Fuel Injection Line
Next diagram is the fuel shut of solenoid. Your pump may or may not have this and sometimes they are located differently. Should you desire, you can eliminate this item and control the pump with a manual cable. That is the way many farm tractors are done. Also eliminates one more electrical circuit.

1. S600 1/4" Lock Washer (2 required)
2 3902023 M6x1.00x25mm Flange Head Bolt (2 required)
3. 3910959 M6x1.0I0 Lock Nut (2 required)
4. 3919182 Shut Off Valve Lever
5. 3934972 Shut Off Solenoid (This part shows to be obsolete)
6. 3919449 Cotter Pin
I checked a more recent serial number 45822898 and it has a revised diagram. They show a bunch of different solenoid numbers depending on the vehicle it was used in. Here is that diagram.

1. S600 1/4" Lock Washer (5 required)
2. 146157 1/4" Plain Washer (2 required)
3. 3901937 M6x1.00x45mm Flange Head Bolt
4. 3902023 M6x1.00x25mm Flange Head Bolt (6 required)
5. 3910959 M6x1.00 Lock Nut
6. 3919449 Cotter Pin
7. 3919452 Solenoid Bracket
8. 3922832 Shut Off Lever
9. 3934972 Solenoid
Note: The following info is provided about the solenoid. Ford used 4089576, Blue Bird used 3800777, 4bt horizontal mount used 3800687, and 4bt vertical mount used 4089574. So that last number would be for the vertical bracket as shown in both these diagrams. If you happened to have the horizontal bracket on your pump it would be the other number.
Well, that's about all I can do for the plumbing. Hopefully, I didn't type any of the numbers wrong.
Now for the fuel injectors. The standard CPL 1839 injector is part 3802547 for new ones or 3802547RX for rebuilt units. New ones from Cummins cost $265.55 each. Ouch! Rebuilt ones at $215.15 each aren't much better. I believe the Bosch part is 0 432 133 861. You'll need to look a bit but you can find those pretty cheap. Those are 5x.010 tips. For 250 HP you need a 5x.012 tip injector. You can find these in the $80-100 range. Popular upgrade size for the '94-98 Dodge Cummins with the P7100. For the pistons and rings the Cummins part for that kit is 3802562 per cylinder in standard bore. There are tons of those out there in the aftermarket. Usually around $100 per hole plus or minus a little.

 

[Pierce04]

Thank you for the information. After seeing all of this, I am not sure which direction I want to go for a injection pump. The used p pump I was getting ended up falling through. I am going to atleast get the bottom end of the engine rebuilt for now and figure out a pump later. I have a local company that can inspect and install a RQV governor and 3000 governor spring in the current A-Pump I have. My question is, can I rebuild my engine with the 3802562 pistons and 3802547 injectors and still use the a pump? Do I need to replace the rods? Also, what about the cam? Im assuming I am going to wat the 145 degree pistons and injectors.

 

[char1355]

You don't have to change to a RQV governor. Just have to learn how the other style operates. The RSV type governor tries to maintain engine RPM with increased load. Sort of like having cruise control. Say you are driving along on level road, you'd find no difference in a RSV and RQV. You come up on a hill and with the RQV you mash the accelerator pedal for more fuel. With the RSV it compensates for the increased load for you. Higher RPM governor springs would be a plus. On your question on pistons and injectors the answers are yes and no. The pistons will do fine and would be basically the same as a turbo engine with the A pump. Cost wise, you might go with 155 deg pistons which will work with either 145 deg or 155 deg injectors. The injectors will be a bit more complicated. The A pump uses the same style injector as a P pump but the pop pressure (pressure at which the injector fires) is lower. You could take your existing injector bodies and install the new tips and that would work. New tips aren't that expensive but easier to find them in 155 deg spray angle. Around $200 for a set of 4. You have another problem though. The plungers in the P7100 injection pump are 12mm diameter. The plungers in your A pump are only 9.5mm diameter. Those will have a hard time feeding the bigger injectors. There are companies who can modify the A pump for more fuel but not sure how expensive that is. Sort of between a rock and a hard place. The A pump wasn't designed to be a high performance model like the P pump. No need to change the cam and those rods are monsters to begin with. No need to replace those either. They have replaceable bushings in the pin end but you only replace those if necessary. If the clearance between the new piston pins and rod bushing is too loose, then you have new bushings pressed in and sized to match you pins. Those bushings aren't very expensive. Unless you're in a big hurry, here's what I'd do. First do the short block. Tear it down and check every thing out. Your oil pan has the sump in the rear position so that's good. If you remove the cam, keep the tappets in the exact order they were removed. Otherwise you'll have to regrind or replace them. Check the cylinder bore for wear. If they are in good shape then a simple honing to break the glaze is all that's needed. The tear down should follow this procedure. First you need a good engine lift. This creature weighs around 750 lbs. so it isn't a feather. You need an engine stand that will support the weight. Next remove the starter, flywheel, and flywheel housing off the rear of the engine. There are eight 12mm bolts that hold that housing on. Cummins must have thought is might fall off. LOL. Never attach a stand to the housing, just to the block. Now you have it on a stand and can go to work. Next remove the head. No big deal, just a lot of bolts, injection lines, etc. Might take photos of where everything was just in case your memory slips. Next would be the injection pump. Rotate the engine to TDC. There is a pin on the back side of the front gear housing that locks into place in the cam gear. Once you find the magic spot and it locks in pull it back out. Next access the front nut on the injection pump shaft. Fix the crank so it doesn't turn and break that nut loose only. Now relock that pin in place. That thing is plastic and any stress will break it. Now you can take the nut and washer off the pump. Next you need to lock the pump so it doesn't turn. If you look back at post #2 with the photo of an A pump you that big red card on a hex cap. Behind that cap is a locking pin for the pump. Remove the cap, take the pin out and turn it around and slide it into the hole. It should seat into a notch in the pump. Once done, put the cap back on. Treat that pin like it's gold because it ain't cheap. The pump is now locked into TDC position and can be removed from the engine. You can now unlock the cam pin as well to prevent any damage to it. The rest of the tear down is nothing special. Most rebuild gasket kits will include new piston cooling nozzles. There are aftermarket ones made of aluminum instead of plastic. Not a necessity, just an option. They are around $10 each where the others are about $1. Once you get everything checked out you put it back together. If the crank has any grooves on the front or rear oil seal area, there are repair sleeves for that. If you remove the front gear housing you must remove the cam. If the injection pump is undecided you might wait to put those parts back in. Leave the oil pan off until the cam and tappets are back in place. Might even paint the block your favorite color while its waiting. On the head there is a small mod that might help performance a tad. Once you get the old exhaust manifold off, take a new gasket and see how it fits the port opening. One way is spray a little red paint on the port and remove the gasket to see the pattern remaining. Gently grind the port so you have about a 1/16" red border around the port. No need to go hogging out the port, just smooth it up a bit. Now, once you get your new exhaust manifold do the same process only on it remove the red border. Going from the slightly smaller to larger port give a slight boost to velocity to help spooling. Not major but doesn't cost you much but a little time. On the rebuild, the main crank bolts are reused. The rod bolt need to be replaced. Either stock ones or for a little more get ARP units. Their part number 247-6304. On the head side you have a decision to make. Go with OEM bolts or use head studs. OEM bolts are OK and are less expensive. My personal preference would be change to studs. ARP kit is part 247-4206. Around $350 for those plus you must machine the rocker arm stands slightly. These are just a bit of added insurance and they can be reused over and over where rod bolts stretch and may be reused once. Once you get the head in good order you can reinstall it and you now have a rebuilt long block waiting on the decision for the injection pump. Tape off all the opening to keep the bug and mice out. You could even install the exhaust manifold and turbo just to have that out of the way. Oil pan has to wait for the decision on what front gear housing will be used. From the photo I see you oil dip stick is missing. There are 2 styles available for these engines. One stays at the rear area and the other loops to the front for easier access. However, the inline injection pump generally had the rear mounted oil stick. Setup look like this one.

 

[R7urnm]

Engine given to me for free. Came out of some sort of Case machine. I'm going to rebuilt it with all new turbo parts. Where is a good place to get everything from. Pistons, rods, cam, etc
I have it tore down and it does have the oil squirter in the block already. I'm trying to identify the injection pump to see if I can use it for on road use. The only number on the pump is a case number J931397. Can anyone tell me what pump this is? Attached are the only pictures I have at the moment. Any info is appreciated

The CPL is 2567. Rated at 60hp
View attachment 135515
View attachment 135516
View attachment 135513
View attachment 135512
View attachment 135514

It's not obvious that way.

 

[Pierce04]

It's not obvious that way.

What is not obvious?

 

[Dougal]

What is not obvious?

Pretty sure that was a spambot. It's gone now.

 

[Pierce04]

I am on quickserve looking up some info. I have found a service manual part number of 3666087. Is there a part number for a parts manual? I am going to purchase the service manual and also a parts manual if I can find one. I am using CPL 1839 and ESN 45321224

I have located a P7100 injection pump that I will have tomorrow. I have also ordered a 44mm HX30W turbo. Part number 4040353

Slowly but surely, everything is starting to come together. Im just wanting to have a parts and a service manual just in case I need it.

 

[char1355]

The owner's manual for that ESN is online so you could just print it out. Don't believe there is a parts manual. Just use Quick Serve. Old manuals are good up to a point but some part numbers may have changed a half dozen times over the years. If you look at a part # on Quick Serve and it has been superseded, it will show you a list of the old numbers and the new one if there is one. I think I've given you about every part on the engine but if you need any others like bearings, seals, etc. feel free to ask and I'll try to look them up. Now that you know your injection pump, you can now source the front gear housing. Does your pump come with any additional parts?