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Yes, that engine harness is definitely a pricey rascal. The one for the console which might be what you're working on is the cheap one. The catalog shows 2 variations of that. Here's the link to that one. https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-580K-Before-SN-JJG0020000-Loader-Backhoes-Parts/Electrical-System-4x/FRONT-CONSOLE-WIRING-HARNESS-AND-CONNECTIONS-0s6z/ If your backhoe is in this serial number series, this catalog link could be useful. It shows virtually every darn part of the tractor from engine to hydraulics.
 

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Discussion Starter #82 (Edited)
Thanks Char. My wife has this web address
Here are some pictures of where I was working on the wires.
IMG_4246.jpg when the motor was out. Working on securing some wires here + hydraulics. The wire nest is on the other side.
IMG_0355.jpg , taken yesterday of where I had to work, but with drive shafts out.
IMG_0356.jpg , & oil filter out.
IMG_0357.jpg , The open hose on the right is the heater hose that popped a leak that caused me to loose the motor, I am not reconnecting.
IMG_0358.jpg , looking down from above starter, alternator is top right. But not in the picture. This is after I had it all back together, & new sheathing installed. There are only 5 gang plugins down here, there are 6 just behind the backhoe post that I had to separate, to work on the transaxle cover, (should have taken pictures) but I did not have to do any wire repair there.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
I still have questions about the relationship between fuel timing, heat, & best power. Right now it has good throttle response but seems to have a good knock & idle seems to need to be about 850, for even this quiet. Pictures of injector pump post #80 . It is for shure more noisy than before the rebuild & then idle was 600-650
 

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I still have questions about the relationship between fuel timing, heat, & best power. Right now it has good throttle response but seems to have a good knock & idle seems to need to be about 850, for even this quiet. Pictures of injector pump post #80 . It is for shure more noisy than before the rebuild & then idle was 600-650
It looks to me that your timing is now well adv...this will make the engine more responsive on rpm, be louder but not the best for bottom end power. The Lucas Cav pumps are not a pump that responds to making much power, no matter what is done to them. I would suggest pulling some timing out of it, a bit at a time, adjust, test, adjust test, until you find "your" sweet spot ( I say your sweet spot because your application, weight, useage etc is different from the next guys ).
 
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Yeah, like Mark said the Lucas pump isn't much of a high performance model. Cummins used at least a half dozen different pumps on these engines and the Lucas CAV is probably in the bottom of the pile. It's just an industrial application pump and does its job as designed.
 

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Discussion Starter #86 (Edited)
Thanks Char & Mark ! I will follow your instructions on the pump timing! To put it to the test I need to be able to work it, & right now is our rain season, it is raining 2-4 hrs every day, using a tractor makes mud soup! So for now I will put it back to stock setting,. BUT I still wonder about the questions asked in post #75?
#1, what is that devise mounted in the center of the intake hose with 2 wires attached (between air cleaner & turbo)
#2, The turbo exhaust 90* elbow is 2 1/2" and 3"pipe into the muffler, but only 2" out of muffler, the bell on the bottom of the exhaust pipe is 3 1/4", so I have room to have the muffler exit to be a 2 1/2" ! Would changing it make any difference to the exhaust flow to help the turbo turn faster, because of decrease in back pressure?
#3, There are 2 water temp sensors in front of the thermostat, (one) had the bolt in the top twisted off so I replaced it BUT WHY 2 of them?
My dog is watching me IMG_0085.jpg
IMG_1716.jpg , but sadly not for much longer, he is 15 yrs/8mo which is 109 yrs, 8 mo.
IMG_5281.jpg , This is of bell on bottom of exhaust pipe.
IMG_2883.JPG , metal gasket that would go between the 2 plates when I cut the 90* elbow & add a new 2,1/2" entry pipe to the muffler. The gasket came with the engine rebuild kit, so I guess it is common, probably some model between manifold & turbo.
I am also wondering about using a fan thermocouple (clutch fan setup) that would not come on until engine reaches (X) temp ! What should that be, and what could I get one off of ? What kind of vehicle?
,
 

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On your questions I may have to guess a bit. #1, the device located in the intake tube is list as a switch. Parts manual doesn't give any other explanation. I would suspect it is designed to detect any restriction in the air intake to alert you to change the air filter. Is there any indicator lamp or gauge on the dash panel for that purpose? #2 A larger outlet on the muffler wouldn't hurt. Not sure why they would have necked it down to 2" when there was 3" going in. A certain amount of back pressure can help with turbo spool but that seems excessive. Not sure there's any way to change that as that muffler is very specialized. It's also as expensive as all get out. Around $400. #3 on the 2 sensors, I believe you will find one is a sensor for the temp gauge and the other is a switch which is connected to a warning alarm system to tell you it's getting too hot.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
Wow Char , I do believe you hit the nail on the head, yes I have a filter light in the inst panel, THANKS !!
With out taking things apart , I believe the turbo exhaust exit is about 2" , elbow 2&1/2" id , muffler 3" pipe slides over the top of it , very thin & has 4 -1/16 wide slots that go to approx 3/8" of the top of the elbow. Top end of elbow had a 1/8" by 5/16 U shape notch, ( I can see no reason for it to be made that way) so the exhaust must have cut it , why not the thin 3" pipe, I don't know? I filled it with muffler weld putty, still leaks around there, hence my idea of plates & gasket.
You say the turbo will spool quicker with some back press, I don't understand , but I am no expert!! -. Q,? would it therefore be better to leave the 2" exit ? Welding new pipes on would not be a problem for me.
IMG_0361.jpg IMG_0360.jpg
 

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On 4bts, the normal exhaust outlet on the turbo is a fraction over 2". In fact, it's the same size on even larger turbos used on the 6bt. Typical exhaust pipes were 3" but your 2" outlet on the muffler probably isn't too restrictive for this application. Not sure of all the physics involved, but I had read articles that indicated you can have too big of an exhaust on some turbos. A small amount of back pressure can help with spooling. Don't want it too restrictive but don't need a 4" exhaust on a small turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #90 (Edited)
McGeever,-. Tie rod end boots.
IMG_0376.jpg , removing the tie rod, right side "1" hit, left about 15 . With the jack bottomed out under the end & tire of the floor. IMG_0379.jpg ,boot from end, not very good seal
IMG_0362.jpg , tie rod end & short pieces of hose to fashion my own seal
IMG_0366.jpg , IMG_0367.jpg , IMG_0369.jpg ,dressing each hose end & triming to length 7/8" on the inside & outside, center 3/4 which allowed 1/8 crush as the lip on the tie rod end is 1/4"
IMG_0365.jpg , the center one is a little to thick, so dress to slip fit.
IMG_0370.jpg , pre-assembled
IMG_0380.jpg , assembled & tightened, good grease seal, now end stays leavel, (not laying over on its side as before). Only removed one end to have on bench, to get set up ! Hoses 1"",1-1/4, 1-5/8
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Re post #86/87 Question #3 -, 2 heat sensors, Is there any difference in them ? How am I to tell if the replacement one is the correct one for that because the temp gauge did / is working ? There was a buzzer under the instrument panel but it had its wires cut off , if it had been connected I probably would not have lost the motor , so I will look at re-connecting
 

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Papa, the parts list show the gauge sender as Case part 84300765 which replaced part A166057. The coolant temperature warning switch shows as Case part 84160157 which replaced D70163. This part requires a bushing to intall it which is Case part 509957 which replaced 221-1088. Coleman Equipment shows a price on the sender of $47.38 and the switch is $92.70 plus $4.64 for the bushing. There are 2 other warning alarms for that engine. One for oil pressure and one for the parking brake. Here's a link that shows the warning items. https://www.colemanequip.com/parts/model/Case-580K-Before-SN-JJG0020000-Loader-Backhoes-Parts/Electrical-System-4x/SPECIAL-PARTS-USED-ON-MODELS-W-AUDIBLE-WARNING-ALARM-FOR-WATER-TEMP-ENGINE-OIL-PRESS-PARK-BRAKE-0sN4/ Near $100 for a warning switch is a bit pricey and may be why someone removed the wiring from the alarm. However, that is cheap compared to having to rebuild an engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #93 (Edited)
Thanks Char, the site shows the E-brake etc , confirming what I have , but there are no others, & there are no wires to re-hook the parking brake, buzzer, or is it somehow for all three ? Still no available wires ! E brake not overly important! The new meters I installed have incorporated into them a light for low oil press & one for water over temp, so all I will have to do is incorporate a buzzer as well, since they have small tubes coming into the cab I feel I should, but I don't know if I must activate them by /with a relay ? I will be in Idaho this next week & Utah the following so will try to find something @ O'reilly's
Sand Point & Bonners Ferry then St George , Any members in the area ????

IMG_0381.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #94 (Edited)
Well!*#^~. I just went out and checked what the oil press was when the light went out =5psi, shut the engine off, turned the key back on and the light did not come back on until it dropped to 5psi, did this twice, THE gauge starts at 5psi, needle sits on a pin @5psi !, have no idea what temp the blue light would come on at! Will call the Co. tomorrow.
What would you say the min oil press should be to sound a buzzer ?
And also temp for a over temp buzzer ?
 

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Discussion Starter #95 (Edited)
Did not have the chance to call Southwest, before I left.( Re-the squealer) two wires, one has a male bullet plug, the other broken off close,soldered on extension, unit works! Test time! Remove instrument panel, plenty of wire let hang, apply park brake, start engine, put in drive, connect squealer, nix, swap wires nix, put instrument panel back, now nothing works right, turn on lights, all work, but tack does a fancy dance, but does not register RPM *¥* NOW WHAT???? Tried 3-4 times so here I am. (Now in Utah.) Went to Napa yesterday. Learned diesel need special tack, only one they had (in Chicago) is 5", I remember on one of the other posts some one talked of a small tack I hope about 2-1/2 or 3",
#2 My manual states min operating oil press -15psi , would that be at idle or 2000rpm, & at what press should a squealer come on? Napa had (normally closed) ones that open at 3-5 or 4-7, seams kind of low to me! About the same as idiot light , I think!
#3. Should the over temp (normally open) switch be in the oil, or water, & at what temp?
Postponed return home for another week, be here all this week.
I am sorry to be such a neusence, this is the 3rd time I have tried to post this, hope it works. I really appreciate every one who has tried to help & has helped! THANKS!!
 

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Discussion Starter #97 (Edited)
Thanks! 1950! I know of only 3 ground wires. The inst panel is plastic, so a grounding wire goes from the metal body of the key switch to ground, it is good,, one from the battery neg to chassis & one from frame to motor. However there must be one in the large gang plug, about 10 or 12 wires, that plugs into the printed circuit board, the other plug is a 3 wire for the tack, I wonder if one of those is a ground as well? These last 2 are incorporated in the wire harness &a I have not seen any wires from the harness going to ground.. All of the wiring diagrams my wife has been able to find do not match mine ! The one that did look the best, the was wrong, the wires were wrong color!- I have worked on the wire harness 3 times & it is to expensive to replace! Putting in my own (new) gauges would be cheaper. I will try to check out the harness when I get back home!
 

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Discussion Starter #98 (Edited)
Well I am back home & have played around with the inst., panel and gotten nowhere, checked the ground again,I moved the plugs, but did not remove the big one because, the the keepers on the ends are changing color where they bend & I am afraid they might break, also the plug makes contact with thin, strips of brass that seem to come loose when you pull the plug. I did that 2 times before & had to glue them back, so I just moved the wires around but to no avail ! All was working until I hung the inst., panel out to play with the squealer & when I put it back nothing worked anymore!
Here are some pictures IMG_6141.jpg
IMG_6140.jpg , IMG_6146.jpg , three wire plug in the middle is tack plug


IMG_6143.jpg
IMG_6144.jpg back of light switch IMG_6145.jpg ground wire
IMG_6142.jpg ,back of key switch IMG_6147.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #99 (Edited)
Well I have finally used the tractor, but nothing changed, as far as the instruments, however last time I went to start it I only got a click from a relay under the Inst panel, so I took the panel out again, discovered the click from down by the floor, so I removed the part ot the panel I had previously cut off, for easier access to the fuse panel area & discovered, that I had forgotten about a big relay, with 4 ground wires on 1 of the bolts holding it in, proceed to remove it all & clean, l had previously removed the relay, but not the attached wires, found the 2 wire black plug full of dirt & the sealing material loose, cleaned & used the Resistol Silicon Liquid to re-seal the relay, disassembled the 2 wire black plug, cleaned contacts, put in di-electric contact grease & RTV where the wires went in so it won’t fill up with dirt again!! Used the Conductor-Lube on the other 2 posts, used broken ignition point file to clean the grounding spot, (which I had not previously done), re-used the Conductor Lube,on all , re-installed, star-washer, 4 grounds, flat washer & nut with its own star washer. Now TEST , got
“1” short crank of the motor (not enough to start) - quite, so used my own installed starter button & EVERY THING ELSE WORKED !!!! Now for some pictures!
2C235B4D-741F-4379-8AFD-9C66B64E918C.jpeg 7C1E41BB-95A5-4EDA-8CB1-73390FA83D2B.jpeg
Large + cable goes on the one with the bolt , 3 ends with 5 wires go on the one without bolt
 

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Discussion Starter #100
Well I have finally used the tractor, but nothing changed, as far as the instruments, however last time I went to start it I only got a click from a relay under the Inst panel, so I took the panel out again, discovered the click from down by the floor, so I removed the part ot the panel I had previously cut off, for easier access to the fuse panel area & discovered, that I had forgotten about a big relay, with 4 ground wires on 1 of the bolts holding it in, proceed to remove it all & clean, l had previously removed the relay, but not the attached wires, found the 2 wire black plug full of dirt & the sealing material loose, cleaned & used the Resistol Silicon Liquid to re-seal the relay, disassembled the 2 wire black plug, cleaned contacts, put in di-electric contact grease & RTV where the wires went in so it won’t fill up with dirt again!! Used the Conductor-Lube on the other 2 posts, used broken ignition point file to clean the grounding spot, (which I had not previously done), re-used the Conductor Lube,on all , re-installed, star-washer, 4 grounds, flat washer & nut with its own star washer. Now TEST , got
“1” short crank of the motor (not enough to start) - quite, so used my own installed starter button & EVERY THING ELSE WORKED !!!! Now for some pictures!
View attachment 126485 View attachment 126486
Large + cable goes on the one with the bolt , 3 ends with 5 wires go on the one without bolt
 
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