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Discussion Starter #101 (Edited)
Well I have finally used the tractor, but nothing changed, as far as the instruments, however last time I went to start it I only got a click from a relay under the Inst panel, so I took the panel out again, discovered the click from down by the floor, so I removed the part ot the panel I had previously cut off, for easier access to the fuse panel area & discovered, that I had forgotten about a big relay, with 4 ground wires on 1 of the bolts holding it in, proceed to remove it all & clean, l had previously removed the relay, but not the attached wires, found the 2 wire black plug full of dirt & the sealing material loose, cleaned & used the Resistol Silicon Liquid to re-seal the relay, disassembled the 2 wire black plug, cleaned contacts, put in di-electric contact grease & RTV where the wires went in so it won’t fill up with dirt again!! Used the Conductor-Lube on the other 2 posts, used broken ignition point file to clean the grounding spot, (which I had not previously done), re-used the Conductor Lube,on all , re-installed, star-washer, 4 grounds, flat washer & nut with its own star washer. Now TEST , got
“1” short crank of the motor (not enough to start) - quite, so used my own installed starter button & EVERY THING ELSE WORKED !!!! Now for some pictures!
View attachment 126485 View attachment 126486
Large + cable goes on the one with the bolt , 3 ends with 5 wires go on the one without bolt


0B4DADB2-34DA-4AB7-A310-710B68CE9FB5.jpeg EBDF7D63-D665-4632-8F54-27736CEB3422.jpeg E DBB6DD51-9F75-4EFD-AE8E-0462710FE6DF.jpeg 1941880B-C1ED-4490-B1A7-113500F9320B.jpeg 46FD58EA-A1FE-4E61-811A-758C024D7898.jpeg 32EC7282-D143-4DF6-AE48-735702FD77AF.jpeg
Now pictures of the instrument panel cover modification. B34C60BD-775E-4E32-A0B8-7776A5758625.jpeg A9B4D6F7-E9DD-4655-95ED-F64541BE2350.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #102
Now to give the credit - ! Thanks to all who have helped especially those who said - Check your grounds ! & I have been -PRAYING every night & every time I thought about it - JESUS help me to fix that tractor, so JESUS THANK YOU , THANK YOU JESUS !!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #103
HELLO & HAPPY NEW YEAR !! Well I have had the tractor out to a friends & it continuously overheat, had to spray the radiator every 1/2 hr to keep it cool , had to stop 2x enroute & pour water over the rad I have purchased a new w/pump, but want to TRY & flush clean it real good, with something powerful before I install the new one . I have tried to find washing soda here but no-one knowers what I am talking about , (what is washing soda in Spanish) my wife has put it in her phone on translate & they still dont know !! ^^^ Does any-one have a good idea for me ? I was in Nebraska yrs ago, car over heating, pulled into a truck stop, mech opened rad cap, fluid was low enough it add the what ever it was he gave me, saying be ready put the cap on quick, & it started to boil over immediately, he was ready with the water hose and sprayed under the car , it cleaned the greasy concrete for 8’ behind car !
All / any help WILL be greatly appreciated ! THANKS
 

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Discussion Starter #104 (Edited)
Last night i watched a Gail Banks vid video & he showed a piston that had , had late fuel inj timing & the edges of the bowl were burned off where the fuel hit ! In my case I Do Not know how you are supposed to know whether fuel inj timing is advanced or late ?
Now in gas engine if you set to much advance it will be hard to start & will also over heat , how much of this is true for diesel ? My inj pump is set at original setting. 655D831B-00C9-4418-A3C4-56771A26682B.jpeg
The top mark is where the mech had set it after they rebuilt it to satisfy my power demands at the time. I have not gotten to a place where i have been able to bury the back hoe bucket for that test .
 

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Papa, washing soda is sodium carbonate. It would normally be found in the laundry detergent area of a grocery store. As for a Spanish translation it might be listed as "sosa" or "ceniza de sosa". You can also make it from baking soda which is sodium bicarbonate. Simple to make. Just an hour or so in the kitchen to bake it. Here's an article showing how to make it. How to Make Washing Soda from Baking Soda | Wellness Mama
If there is a Walmart in your country they usually have it.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
Thank You so much Char! Do you think that is my best option ? What about the fuel timing issue ?
 

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  1. Papa, not an expert on pump timing but let me ask a question or two. Which injection pump do you have? I've seen some of your photos but can't really get a good look at it. I know its a rotary so it could be a Bosch VE or a Lucas or maybe a few others. It appears that all your letters or numbers on the gears were matched up correctly during the rebuild so that should have no effect. Your timing gear housing has 2 marks on it and the one on the pump appears to be slightly off center toward the engine block. Not sure what the 2 marks are about as the ones I've seen on the 6bt Dodge just has one mark on the gear housing. If you have the OEM ID plate on the engine it should show what the stock timing is. Some are advanced more than others in stock form. If yours is a VE, there are a few tools used to properly setup the timing. They are not real expensive. Might contact member Eggman and he can advise you on that. I'd be totally in the dark on the Lucas or others. When changing the timing you have to be careful not to advance too much or you'll probably blow the head gasket. Like you found in the video, you sure don't want to have the timing retarded. Causes lost power and increased heat which can damage the pistons. Advanced timing usually runs cooler,has more power, but may be a bit noisier. On the engine cooling issue, there could be several issues at work. Bad water pump is one, blown head gasket is another, scale build up in the radiator or engine block, and a bad thermostat is yet another.
 

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Discussion Starter #108
Thanks for your response Char ! The pump is a Lucas Cav . When I had the engine down I tested the thermostat by putting it in a pot of water & bringing to a boil, seemed to be working good as it was opening just before bubbles, ( but could do it again now) . The bottom marks in the pump shot is the factory setting. I created the top set of marks after the mech had had my pump rebuilt (3x) & the rebuild guy came out last 2x to assist & monitor . I highlighted for clarity ! You can see there is almost no advance left at the top setting . HOW does one know if a head gasket is blowen ? I was hoping it is scale build up & wanted to use some powerful flush before installing my new water pump . THANKS
 

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I sort suspected that might be a Lucas pump but wasn't sure. We don't see a lot of those on the forum because they weren't used in road applications. If that bottom mark was the original factory one, then it appears your pump may be advanced a good bit. If you wanted to verify the stock timing here's a very simple instruction as to how to check it. Injection Pump Timing Check As for the head gasket issue, there are probably several checks you can do. One is remove the radiator cap and look for air bubbles in the coolant while the engine is running. That's a pretty good sign that compressed air is being forced into the cooling system. Abnormal pressure in the coolant system can force the coolant out of the overflow. Has there been any sign of water in the oil or white smoke in the exhaust? Another test you could perform is a compression test. That would entail pulling the injectors and checking each cylinder for unusually low pressure. There is another possible issue that we don't like to think about. That is a pin hole in a cylinder wall. That is caused by a condition called cavitation where tiny air bubbles form on the cylinder walls and literally bore a tiny hole in them. Have only seen one guy on the forum that had that issue but it can happen. The preventative is to use a special coolant that contains chemical to prevent it. A number of manufacturers make it. Cummins brand is Fleetguard and Peak brand is called Fleet Charge which is what I use in my Ford 7.3. Another thing is always use distilled water when adding any. One tip on the coolant, you can buy premixed 50/50 but there you're paying a huge price for water. I always buy the undiluted coolant and add my own distilled water which costs about $1/gal at the grocery store.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Thanks again to Char 1355 !— I was not able to locate any sodium carbonate , but l did find
Bycarbonate at a pool supply. I remember my father using bycarbonate straight from the box, but if l remember correctly, someone on here said not to do that , because of some sort of a gas, in my case the tractor would be outside working, so should l be concerned about that ?
I have not yet looked for the coolant. <> The oil looks good, and no bubbles on the radiator, checked with engine warm & obvious circulation..
On the inj-pump, i looked at the site you sent me & also one from Lance @
Bundybearsshed.com , he sent me a tech manual, on line free down load , http://www.queenslandtractorspares.com.au/. You can find it here if you so desire.
When l look In my window there is NO letter in there to check or align, so it looks like the pump might be assembled improperly!
 

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Discussion Starter #111
Thanks again to Char 1355 !— I was not able to locate any sodium carbonate , but l did find
Bycarbonate at a pool supply. I remember my father using bycarbonate straight from the box, but if l remember correctly, someone on here said not to do that , because of some sort of a gas, in my case the tractor would be outside working, so should l be concerned about that ?
I have not yet looked for the coolant. <> The oil looks good, and no bubbles on the radiator, checked with engine warm & obvious circulation..
On the inj-pump, i looked at the site you sent me & also one from Lance @
Bundybearsshed.com , he sent me a tech manual, on line free down load , http://www.queenslandtractorspares.com.au/. You can find it here if you so desire.
When l look In my window there is NO letter in there to check or align, so it looks like the pump might be assembled improperly!
I have a theory — possibly — l am thinking that the oil hole in the Main journal is so aligned that it coincides with the squirt nozzle at the top of the piston stroke to give max cooling, so late fuel injection would be after the oil squirt, which would allow higher engine temps ?
Would this not explain why, with my pump being set at the stock timing mark ,& the pump not being assembled properly, why it was overheating ?? I did manage to get it cooled down each time just shy of 220*F. The temp source is at the rear of the head drivers side.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
I have a theory — possibly — l am thinking that the oil hole in the Main journal is so aligned that it coincides with the squirt nozzle at the top of the piston stroke to give max cooling, so late fuel injection would be after the oil squirt, which would allow higher engine temps ?
Would this not explain why, with my pump being set at the stock timing mark ,& the pump not being assembled properly, why it was overheating ?? I did manage to get it cooled down each time just shy of 220*F. The temp source is at the rear of the head drivers side.
Unrelated to above ! I have seen on here where the Qestion was asked? What is the fuel delivery pressure from your lift pump , well that would require a press gauge ,which would help diagnose fuel delivery problems , but how & where?
21830836-04AC-4E18-AA19-D7FE78F2D914.jpeg
 

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127062

I measure my fuel pressure at the output of the fuel filter. That way, a plugged fuel filter will show up on the fuel pressure gauge. I drilled out the head of the banjo bolt (lower left in the picture) and had a 1/4 inch tube brazed in. Following the 1/4 inch fuel hose up and to the center - Brass hose bib - Brass tee - pulse snubber (hidden under the red hose and black clamp - Electric fuel pressure sender - wiring to gauge

Note: The pulse snubber protects the fuel pressure sender from the sharp pump pulses - recommended by the gauge manufacturer
 
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If your timing is retarded it will make the engine run hotter. You are correct in that thinking. If something is messed up in the pump that could cause a lot of problems. Normally, when a pump is rebuilt, the timing is set by the rebuilder and the pump locked in that position until it is installed. On the fuel pressure gauge, if you look at the area where the fuel filter is, there are banjo bolts that secure the fuel lines. There are replacement bolts that have a fitting in the end to attach a gauge. You can do the gauge after the filter, before the filter or if you want a full account put one on each side of the filter. That would tell you about a dying fuel pump and a filter needing replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter #115 (Edited)
View attachment 127062

I measure my fuel pressure at the output of the fuel filter. That way, a plugged fuel filter will show up on the fuel pressure gauge. I drilled out the head of the banjo bolt (lower left in the picture) and had a 1/4 inch tube brazed in. Following the 1/4 inch fuel hose up and to the center - Brass hose bib - Brass tee - pulse snubber (hidden under the red hose and black clamp - Electric fuel pressure sender - wiring to gauge

Note: The pulse snubber protects the fuel pressure sender from the sharp pump pulses - recommended by the gauge manufacturer
Thanks Russ. Yes l can see that a snubber would be necessary , but l dont understand the tee, & what comes off of it ? Who sells this set up
 

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Discussion Starter #116
If your timing is retarded it will make the engine run hotter. You are correct in that thinking. If something is messed up in the pump that could cause a lot of problems. Normally, when a pump is rebuilt, the timing is set by the rebuilder and the pump locked in that position until it is installed. On the fuel pressure gauge, if you look at the area where the fuel filter is, there are banjo bolts that secure the fuel lines. There are replacement bolts that have a fitting in the end to attach a gauge. You can do the gauge after the filter, before the filter or if you want a full account put one on each side of the filter. That would tell you about a dying fuel pump and a filter needing replacement.
Thanks Char! Are you talking mechanical gauges, or electric with sender unites ? I was thinking mechanical & under the hood, & it would also require the snubber. I will have to look into that electric setup & the special banjo bolt. Who sells those? I think a constant monitoring of “1” gauge will have to suffice. #2 on the inj pump, as l mentioned back a ways the old toad that did the rebuild came with the “mech” after i had sent it back to their shop because it had no power, they messed around for half a day, finally advancing it to the new setting (l marked later)! I new something was wrong when they had to do that! But seemed to work ok ! Now after watching your & Lances vids and l see there is no letter in the hole to line up ! I wonder is the letter on the other side , say 180* off, could that part be flipped over or rotated 180*?? And is it possible that the plate that governs the distance the rollers travel, hence the amount of fuel let into the cavity between the 2 pistons, be set on the short side? #3 What of my idea on the mains oil hole & the piston squirt nozzles timed just before or at TDC
 

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Thanks Russ. Yes l can see that a snubber would be necessary , but l dont understand the tee, & what comes off of it ? Who sells this set up
I also don’t understand why yours & Char’s reply are not posted on my original 4bt rebuild. I think it was & l was responding to -head gasket prices & saw 4bt rebuild update at the bottom under recommended reading so l touched it, & now l have a new 4bt site
Papa, Most of that stuff was (crudely) assembled in my home shop. I edited my post above. Short summary: That is a brass ball valve sticking out of the brass tee, I use it for bleeding the air out of the fuel filter assembly. The ball valve is higher than the fuel filter, so it seems to bleed quickly

I had a spare banjo bolt, drilled thru the head, pushed in a short length of 1/4" steel tube and had a friend braze it in place (silver solder should also work). All the brass fittings are came from Ace Hardware or Lowe's. 1/8"-NPT if I remember correctly.
 
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It does sound like you had the rebuilder from hell. Injection pumps are somewhat sensitive creatures and need to be handled with care. Lack of power is another symptom of retarded timing. As far as fuel pressure gauges go, you can use either electric or mechanical. Some guys are hesitant to have fuel running inside the cab or their trucks, but if properly installed it would never be an issue. A company named Hewitt Industries makes a lot of mechanical gauges. Their founder invented the pyrometer gauge for diesels. They even make dual reading gauges so you could monitor fuel pressure at 2 points. Below is a photo of their dual fuel pressure gauge. They aren't exactly cheap but their gauges are found in lots of semi truck. They are old school and make good stuff. You had mentioned about not finding the washing soda and I forgot to respond. Bicarbonate of soda is a somewhat different animal. You can make the washing soda very simply. Sprinkle the bicarbonate onto a flat baking pan. Place it in a 400 deg F oven for at least 1 hour or a bit longer. Need to stir it a few times during the baking process. The heating drives off the water molecules in the bicarbonate and makes it sodium carbonate which is washing soda.
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Papa, Most of that stuff was (crudely) assembled in my home shop. I edited my post above. Short summary: That is a brass ball valve sticking out of the brass tee, I use it for bleeding the air out of the fuel filter assembly. The ball valve is higher than the fuel filter, so it seems to bleed quickly

I had a spare banjo bolt, drilled thru the head, pushed in a short length of 1/4" steel tube and had a friend braze it in place (silver solder should also work). All the brass fittings are came from Ace Hardware or Lowe's. 1/8"-NPT if I remember correctly.
I got it with the bleeder, thanks, & the fittings are 1/8 pipe. Does the snubber have a male end or female, and is it part of the pressure sensor sending unit? I like the duel meter idea Char sent !
 

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The snubber has a male end and a female end - it screws into the sending unit. I am using this unit from Gloshift:


There are other snubbers out there that should work just as well.

My Gloshift fuel pressure gauge has worked OK for me (it is in the cab of my truck), BUT (in my opinion), it is not rugged enough for use in a tractor or backhoe.
 
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