[afgunn]

I have read everything here on this adapter but it is not clear to me what automatic transmission bellhousings the Cummins/dodge trans adapter will accomodate. If I understand correctly, I can use 727/518 (Chrysler small block) bellhousings on the dodge adaptor. Correct or not?! If correct, this is super great!!!!

Is the 47RH used after '94 different? Would it be true that you could use the '91.5-93 518 engine/trans adapter to attach a 518 compatabile trans?

 

[JimmieD]

The Dodge adapter will accept A-727, A-518 and A-618, all of the 6BT trannies & flexplate. If at all possible get a new 6BT torque converter or a performance aftermarket diesel converter, and use the biggest tranny cooler you can lay your hands on. If you get all that and change tranny fluid and filter at least once a year you'll be in good shape for many, many miles.

 

[afgunn]

Wow! That is some of the best news I have gotten in awhile. I had been pursueing the Isuzu 4BD2TC until I found out that the engine bolt pattern was indeed NOT SAE of any type and no one is making an adapter. The industrial engine may be but then they are not really road worthy.

This is great news! You guys may want to put this in a sticky. I could have assumed this from the info I gathered but I think a lot of us know what assume can lead to. I believe my decision is pretty well made now, it is the 4BT form me! I just need to determine which model. I would like the latest model that still has the mechanical injection pump. Still a lot to learn for me.

I had not thought of using a Dodge diesel torque converter but that certainly is worth considering, I had planned to get a good aftermarket diesel converter and have my trans (545RFE) rebuilt with high performance parts, shift kit and increase line pressure. I will not be hotrodding or rock crawling. I just want a good economical diesel to get to and from work. In my current diesel, I rarely get over 2500 RPM. And I do already have a trans cooler installed and I may get a high capacity trans pan.

Thanks for the great info!

 

[sdstriper]

There is a difference in the adapters for the 1994' - up, 618 (47RH). These transmissions had lockup torque converter. If you use this trans. you need the newer adapter as well as the starter for that adapter.

The pre 94' adapters work for the 727HD diesel transmissions and the 518's

 

[JimmieD]

OOooppss, my mistake! I forgot about the lockup TC...

 

[afgunn]

sdstriper,
That would make sense to me, that the 618 would use a larger pattern. So, if I get the pre '94 adapter and mount it on a post '94 engine, I would still be able to use a 518/727 compatable trans?

 

[sdstriper]

Yes, get the correct starter for the adapter also.

 

[BobS]

sdstriper,

For further clarification, are we speaking in terms of "diesel designed versions only" or is it anything goes including the "gasoline designed transmissions" with the same model numbers? I want to eliminate any confusion before it goes into the sticky threads.

Thanks,

 

[GusGus]

trans adapter

the dodge trans adapters for 727/518 are diesel spec only, the small block bells are smaller by almost 3" in dia. Mikel on this forum had a TF727 adapter,flex, and starter for sale. the 727 used on the early diesels is heavier version of the 727, reinforced bell, much larger TC, etc.

 

[racinwayne58]

89-93 cummins A.T use the same adapter for a 727 or 518 . 94-99 cummins 47rh and 47re use the same adapter you can use the late model 02-06 small dia. starter on the 94-99 for clearance. also the v-10 47r-47re is the same trans minus convertor.

 

[afgunn]

Just Great!!!!

Well...., ain't this just nice! This is going just like my gathering info for the Isuzu 4BD.... south and worse! It seems it is buyer beware. I am glad I have discovered all the confusion and misinformation before I have put any money out - for either engine! I guess the rule of thumb is, check everything yourself and trust no one. Forums seem to be more for those who "think they know" than for those who really know. Advice and knowledge should be given very carefully, unless you like people wasting their money while depending on your word.

Does anyone KNOW if the Cummins 4/6BT's engine bellhousing pattern (without any adapter) is a SAE standard or not and which one? And, please only those who have actually measured, attached or otherwise VERIFIED need reply.

 

[JimmieD]

I suppose that was directed at me? Well, there are a lot of variables in this stuff, little cast in stone! I posted what I did based on other's information, but regardless, double check everything. It was my understanding that there was no difference in adapter plates for Cummins/Dodge automatic installs, and that the A-618 was just beefed up internally with no exterior change from A-518. The torque converters are however different.

I bought a replacement torque converter for my '90 Dodge Ram A-518 and asked for lockup. I received the TC and decided I wanted non-lockup and returned it. The parts store called the torque converter manufacturer and THEY SAID THEY WERE THE SAME, LOCKUP or NON LOCKUP! That's part of where I got my info, from a company that manufacures the TC's, so I figured it was pretty reliable.

A-518's come in lockup or non lockup. The only externally visible difference between the trannies is the input shaft, with one being fully splined and the other being partially splined. I had both and compared, seeing that there was no other difference externally in lockup or non-lockup.

In further research: if you're going to use an A-618 then you want the '94-'02 adapter which is 1" thicker, plus the correct starter, plus the 2nd Gen flexplate.

I'm sure it's frustrating for you, and it was for me in my swap, especially with no 4BT Swap forum around to ask questions! I went to other Dodge forums and asked questions politely. I found that you get a lot better feedback tossing out polite questions instead of tossing out insults.

 

[66gaza]

The cummins block bolt pattern isn't SAE its a cummins bolt pattern If you want an SAE tranny to bolt up you have to buy an Cummins 4/6BT SAE engine adapter plate. I have a SAE 2 and a SAE 3 adapter plate aswell as a 2nd gen dodge adapter they are all interchangeable between my 4BT and 6BT. I can bolt any Dodge tranny to my 4BT that was bolted to a 2nd gen dodge with the 2nd gen dodge adapter. The Cummins 4BT & 6BT bolt block pattern remained from 89 till 02 1st & 2nd gen dodge. The bolt pattern might have stayed the same after 02 but I don't know that so I will only state what I know. So if you want to fit a dodge 727 tranny to a 4BT then you need an engine adapter from a 1st gen dodge 89-93. If you want to fit a NV4500 (2nd gen) then you need an adapter from a 2nd gen dodge. etc etc. This is about as clear as I can think of to explain it. Hope it helps.

Gaza

 

[racinwayne58]

3rd gen. has two holes in block moved.

 

[GusGus]

TF727 adapter

I'm sorry if I added to the confusion, here is a pic. that Mikel had sent to me of the TF727 adapter for 4B/6B I hope this helps. I measured a 318 bell when he sent this to me and pin to pin was around 15 1/4", I can re-measure this week if you need me to confirm.


http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=737&stc=1&d=1184547172
TF727adapter.jpg

 

[briney]

just a quick hijack here. are the trans adaptors doweled to the engine ? or do you need to use a dial gauge and the flywheel to set them up ?

 

[sdstriper]

sdstriper,

For further clarification, are we speaking in terms of "diesel designed versions only" or is it anything goes including the "gasoline designed transmissions" with the same model numbers? I want to eliminate any confusion before it goes into the sticky threads.

Thanks,

Yes, Diesel Transmission Specific. Looks like you got good answers before me here too. Another tidbit on the Diesel Specific 727 since I have seen this question a bunch lately, Diesel Specific 727HD or (37RH), modified as stated in the parts manuals, 12.2" Borg Warner Torque converter. These utilize a different case than the gasoline 727 or (36RH), different than the small block or big block gasser units.

 

[sdstriper]

I suppose that was directed at me? Well, there are a lot of variables in this stuff, little cast in stone! I posted what I did based on other's information, but regardless, double check everything. It was my understanding that there was no difference in adapter plates for Cummins/Dodge automatic installs, and that the A-618 was just beefed up internally with no exterior change from A-518. The torque converters are however different.

I bought a replacement torque converter for my '90 Dodge Ram A-518 and asked for lockup. I received the TC and decided I wanted non-lockup and returned it. The parts store called the torque converter manufacturer and THEY SAID THEY WERE THE SAME, LOCKUP or NON LOCKUP! That's part of where I got my info, from a company that manufacures the TC's, so I figured it was pretty reliable.

A-518's come in lockup or non lockup. The only externally visible difference between the trannies is the input shaft, with one being fully splined and the other being partially splined. I had both and compared, seeing that there was no other difference externally in lockup or non-lockup.

In further research: if you're going to use an A-618 then you want the '94-'02 adapter which is 1" thicker, plus the correct starter, plus the 2nd Gen flexplate.

I'm sure it's frustrating for you, and it was for me in my swap, especially with no 4BT Swap forum around to ask questions! I went to other Dodge forums and asked questions politely. I found that you get a lot better feedback tossing out polite questions instead of tossing out insults.

The 518's with lockup were only available for gasoline engine vehicles, both lockup and non lockup were produced to make things confusing. The Diesel Specific 727 & 518 were never available with lockup torque converter. 1994 - 95 (47RH) and 96 - Up (47RE) lockup was added and is still in use.

 

[CrewCab59]

just a quick hijack here. are the trans adaptors doweled to the engine ? or do you need to use a dial gauge and the flywheel to set them up ?

Yes,
There are pins !

 

[hoeman]

still a little confused I have a 78 motor home with a 440 dodge i it and I have a 93 dodge 1 ton 5.9 cummins with a getrag 360 behind it. What I'm wondering is will the trans from behind the 440 bolt on to the adapter on the 5.9 cummins or are the patterns different?