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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am new here and have been doing alot of reading. I am just astonished with this 4bt cummins engine information. I have always been a big fan of the 6bt engine but was in no need of a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck. A 1/2 ton with smaller diesel seems like the perfec setup. Lots of power with good gas mileage and the better ride of a 1/2 ton. Awesome.
I am also a Dodge lover and just finished a 2 year restore of my 69 Charger R/T. I would love to have a truck but my 70km drive each day warrants having a vehicle which is good on gas.
I would love to use a 1st or 2nd gen Dodge 1/2 ton 4x4 for the donor vehicle and the 4bt engine. Which would be an easier setup?
I was thinking if I could get a 2nd gen 1/2 ton truck, with the nv4500 already in it, I could use the 4bt with the Dodge 3/4 ton bell housing/clutch etc. Would this work?

 

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I am new here and have been doing alot of reading. I am just astonished with this 4bt cummins engine information. I have always been a big fan of the 6bt engine but was in no need of a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck. A 1/2 ton with smaller diesel seems like the perfec setup. Lots of power with good gas mileage and the better ride of a 1/2 ton. Awesome.
I am also a Dodge lover and just finished a 2 year restore of my 69 Charger R/T. I would love to have a truck but my 70km drive each day warrants having a vehicle which is good on gas.
I would love to use a 1st or 2nd gen Dodge 1/2 ton 4x4 for the donor vehicle and the 4bt engine. Which would be an easier setup?
I was thinking if I could get a 2nd gen 1/2 ton truck, with the nv4500 already in it, I could use the 4bt with the Dodge 3/4 ton bell housing/clutch etc. Would this work?

There's a guy on the diesel bombers forum that put one with an automatic in a 2nd gen 1/2 ton, he likes his a lot, says 30mpg for his setup.

I'm not sure the 1/2 tons came with nv4500's, but i could be wrong. I would expect an nv3550 in there. Putting an nv4500 wouldn't be overly difficult if the truck were manual to begin with. a little bit harder with an auto, but certainly not impossible.

If it did have one, it'd be light duty, you'd probably want to get the cummins input to run the 6bt clutch with the 6bt flywheel and the 6bt bellhousing...

HTH.

nice car by the way!
 

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Good looking Charger bud!
I really enjoy seeing any of those old mustle cars as they were on the showroom floor. Magnum 500s, bumble bee and various other stripes, factory chrome exhaust tips, shaker and other ram air induction packages, and so on, and so on. The most gorgeous cars ever built, 69, 70, and 71! All great stuff.
What does it have for a power plant, tranny, and gears?


Al
 

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Just my weird opinion, but you might be on to something there, if I read you right? Buy a decent or fixer 1st Gen 6BT, pull 6BT and stuff in a 4BT? Sell the 6BT to cover some of the expense of 4BT? Might even break even or better.

Seems all you'd have to change are relocation of stock Dodge mounts on frame, shoved rearward. You'd end up with the best of both worlds: nice power, ridiculous mileage, less weight in front for less wear & tear on front end & tires, more engine compartment room, possibly better weight transfer bias, lots of plusses there!

Many of the Dodge 4X's want to sit high in front, so you might have to notch up the rear springs when taking nearly 200lbs off of front end. Sounds like a very practical project with many excellent benefits, no downside that I can see. Some guys HAD TO HAVE a 440 in their pickemups, others grinning ear to ear with a Slantified 6. To each his own....have fun!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys. I was thinking more along the lines of a 2nd gen 1/2 ton 4x4. Remove 318/360 and manual, install 4bt with bell housing, nv4500 and transfer case out of 3/4 ton or 1 ton. Basically a 1/2 ton with 4bt and all other driveline out of 3/4 ton. That would be cool.
 

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I built a 6BT Ramcharger(3/4 ton CTD drivetrain) a couple of years ago. It's almost 100% bolt in with the right donor truck. I'm in the process of a 4BT Ramcharger right now. It's a bit more for off-road use but will be streetable. Should be a blast. Good luck with your build!

Andrew
 

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I've thought of doing the same thing. Except using a Ford body instead. Don't really dislike the Dodge (94 and newer) but really don't care for the 93 and older bodies. Been driving a 91 for 14 years because of the engine.
On your project, the input shaft for the NV4500 was different for the 6bt and the V10's. They were 1-3/8" in dia, compared to the 360's and 318's being 1-1/4". The output shafts were a 31 spline compared to a 30 spline for the smaller gas jobs as well. (I could be off on the output shaft spline count but there was a slight difference.) I'm sure either one would work with your project as the 4bt isn't as tourquy as the 6bt and the 1/2 ton is lighter. Drive with your brain engaged before the clutch is engaged and there should be no worries.
I've got an 01 Ford Supercrew Lariat that the wife is getting sick of putting gas in at $1.00 a litre($3.80/US gallon). She wants a gas miser to go to work with. Paid $42.000 for the truck in Mar/00, dealer offered $5000.00 on trade in. There's only 160,000 miles on it, all highway. It's been the family car. I love driving the truck so I'm keeping an eye out for a 4bt to put in when the 5.4 starts to have problems.
 

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I've thought of doing the same thing. Except using a Ford body instead. Don't really dislike the Dodge (94 and newer) but really don't care for the 93 and older bodies. Been driving a 91 for 14 years because of the engine.
On your project, the input shaft for the NV4500 was different for the 6bt and the V10's. They were 1-3/8" in dia, compared to the 360's and 318's being 1-1/4". The output shafts were a 31 spline compared to a 30 spline for the smaller gas jobs as well. (I could be off on the output shaft spline count but there was a slight difference.) I'm sure either one would work with your project as the 4bt isn't as tourquy as the 6bt and the 1/2 ton is lighter. Drive with your brain engaged before the clutch is engaged and there should be no worries.
I've got an 01 Ford Supercrew Lariat that the wife is getting sick of putting gas in at $1.00 a litre($3.80/US gallon). She wants a gas miser to go to work with. Paid $42.000 for the truck in Mar/00, dealer offered $5000.00 on trade in. There's only 160,000 miles on it, all highway. It's been the family car. I love driving the truck so I'm keeping an eye out for a 4bt to put in when the 5.4 starts to have problems.
Just a correction; the nv4500's had a 1-1/4" input shaft. The nv5600 had the same on the standard output engines (99-00), and had the 1-3/8" on the high output engins (01-02). You can get the bigger input for the 4500, but its spendy.
 

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I remember reading somewhere that there was a difference on the input shaft so I went back to check my research. I stand corrected. There is a difference but my numbers were wrong. The V10 and the Cummins 6BT use an 1-1/4" input and the other gas jobs use an 1-1/8" shaft. Both 10 spline. My output shaft numbers were correct at 31 splines for the HD model and 30 splines for the standard unit. I got my info from:
www.high-impact.net/transmission_and_gear/nv4500.htm
There's a lot of info on the NV4500 here for all makes of trucks. If you scroll down about half way, you'll find a comparison box for Gm and Dodge marked dimentions. This is where I found the measurements.
I havn't verified these measurements personally, just through research that I've done on the net.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So lets say I picked up a 95 dodge ram 1500 4x4/manual. What would be involved in changing to a 4bt using the existing nv4500/transfer case in the truck.
 

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Adapter plate to mount the Dodge bell housing to the 4bt. If you're going to use the stock clutch, everything else should be ok. Just build your engine mounts to fit with the tranny in stock position if you can and you won't have to change driveshaft lengths either.
That's the condensed version. There's more to it than that but that's the major stuff.
 

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as i stated earlier i'm pretty sure the 1/2 ton manuals aren't nv4500, they are the lighter duty ones. I did a search on car-part.com and most don't list model, but one listed nv3500. The only engine option is a 5.2 it looks like for the manual.

That said, the information is mostly here.

To run the 3500, it's possible, but i'm not sure i'd trust it. I forget the torque rating, but it is appropriate unless you turn up the fuel. there are people on here with either an ax15 or the nv3500/nv3550 on here, i'd do a search.

To run the stock transfer case you will need a light duty dodge mainshaft with the 23spline output. You will need an HD input (1 1/4") to run the cummins stuff. flywheel/adapter/bellhousing/clutch/starter/etc/etc. Or you can use a transfer case that is the same as the nv4500 output.
 

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I have been wondering for the past couple of hours how easy it would be to swap in a 4bt into a 6bt that is missing the engine. Should be quite cheap to purchase already set up for diesel. Move the mounts, fit the nv4500 to the 4bt. Everything else should be basically the same correct assuming the truck is a mechanical 12v 6bt. Should provide a 30-35 mpg 3/4 ton truck(even though isn't needed, easier then converting a 1/2 ton) with not even close to the power but decent driveability and towing light loads. Any thoughts about this?

I'm trying to learn as much as possible about diesels in general, so please correct me if I am thinking wrong about all the (accessories ie.vacum pump, brake booster etc.) bolting up to the 4bt from the 6.

Thanks for your time,

Darren
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've done some research and it appears the nv4500 came in a standard version and a HD version. The standard version was used in 1500's with the 5.2L and 5.9L and the HD version in the V10/diesel trucks. From what I have read, the only difference being the input shaft sizes- 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. If I were to find a 1500 4x4 with burnt 360, remove it, install 4bt with disel adapter plate, change the nv4500 input shaft to the larger size and maybe upgrade clutch, it would be a matter of creating new motor mounts (and the electrical of course). No screwing around with transfer cases or new drive shafts etc.
 

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I've done some research and it appears the nv4500 came in a standard version and a HD version. The standard version was used in 1500's with the 5.2L and 5.9L and the HD version in the V10/diesel trucks. From what I have read, the only difference being the input shaft sizes- 1 1/8 to 1 1/4. If I were to find a 1500 4x4 with burnt 360, remove it, install 4bt with disel adapter plate, change the nv4500 input shaft to the larger size and maybe upgrade clutch, it would be a matter of creating new motor mounts (and the electrical of course). No screwing around with transfer cases or new drive shafts etc.
you would need a new bell housing for the transmission too. along with all the dodge flywheel/starter/etc.
 

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The 1500's came with the NV3500 HD's. The lightest truck you could get the NV4500 was the 2500's. The standard NV3500's were found in the Dakotas. Also, you couldn't get the 360 in the 1500's with a manual. 1500's with the 318/manual/4x4's are out there, but hard to find.
 

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I have a 91 Dodge 3.9 v6 with small input nv4500 2by short bed
 
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