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Hi I am new and I am happy to find someone that can help me.I have a cummins 4bta marine engines with 110hp at 2200 rpm.I wish to upgrade my hp.What is your opinion so I will upgrade mp hp.My turbo is a holset hx30w
 

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Is this a drive engine or one for a generator or other use? I thought the drive engines were 150 HP for the VE injection pump. Does yours have the Bosch VE, A, or some other pump? Your HX30W turbo 3539241/3539242 is from a Komatsu grader. If original to the engine then this was never a marine engine.
 

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Thanks for your reply, it's a bosch 4 inline and it's a drive engine. This engine I am going to convert it to marine by adding coolers etc
 

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Point to watch.
Depends on where you are in relation to marine engines you may need a water cooled turbo/manifold to comply with legalities.
If holding to the 2200 RPM to suit the hull then more air and fuel will be required for a HP increase without increasing RPM.
 

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Have you got a photo of the injection pump? If this were a Komatsu engine, I suspect it may have a Bosch A injection pump. Mind you, that is just a guess. Your pump RPM of 2200 is very low but common on some industrial engines. My industrial parts book shows an engine with exactly that 110 HP @ 2200 RPM. Most marine drive engines have injection pump governors set at near 2800 RPM. The model governor on your engine may be the same as a P7100 injection pump. If you look at the end of the injection pump there would be an ID tag for the governor. Replacement governor springs are not very expensive. Just need to know what you have before you make mods. The A pump is capable of more power but within limits. Also, HP increases with RPM so a higher speed governor may gain more HP but you will lose torque. Is there an engine ID plate on the side of the front cover near the injection pump? If so, that would have the engine CPL and serial number. That would be very useful, Converting to full marine application could prove expensive. Your turbo is not a marine type as they are water cooled. That turbo wouldn't bolt to a marine water cooled manifold. The HX30W generally needs an aftercooler or intercooler to keep the heat level in check. Not really sure how you'd work that out. Those units do exist but they aren't cheap. Most guys would recommend running the exhaust dry stack if possible and use a closed cooling system. Sometimes space and ventilation won't allow that.
 

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When I bought this engine ,they said that this engine was used on a test bench. Tomorrow I will take a photo and send it to you. Regarding the afrercooler the engine has got one but may be it's not enaph
 

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Certainly isn't a P7100. Charlie is most likely right on a A-pump.
 

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OK, see a few things there. Your engine was built in the UK which is no problem. The governor is the RSV 475 which I believes uses the same type springs used on the RQV found in the P7100. That would make changing the governor speed fairly simple. Would want to verify that with a pump shop just to be sure. You have a Bosch A pump which is very common in industrial engines. Fuel can be turned up some but its smaller plungers do limit output. Might get into the 150-200 HP range without a major pump mod. I cannot read the serial number on your ID plate. I we had that I could go to Cummins Quick Serve and look at the engine specs. Looks like someone has intentionally blocked out the ESN. I clearly see it is from a Komatsu as the turbo indicated. If it has the aftercooler, that would work OK but I wouldn't want to use it as a marine application due to possible corrosion or clogging by unfiltered water. I suspect your engine is the same as Cummins CPL2351 which shows in my 1998 industrial catalog. The manufacturing date on your turbo is 2000 or later. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of guys running the A pump because it was an industrial item and there aren't many performance mods like the VE or P pumps. How much power are your wanting to get?
 

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150hp to 200hp.I am going to change the after cooler .What about the bosch pump and the turbo,are they good or I need to replace them?This is the afrercooler that I am going to install.
 

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To get to the desired power level you must do a few things. First, change the governor springs to get more RPM. Second, increase the fuel from the injection pump. I'm a bit vague there because there aren't many specs as to turning up an A pump. Don't know if Nascarmark has worked with an A pump or not. Third, I'd advance the pump timing a bit. Fourth, adjust the boost actuator on the turbo to get more boost. More fuel needs more air to burn it. The HX30W turbo is perfectly fine up to 200 HP and a bit beyond. Main issue will be whether you use a dry exhaust or wet one. If you used a water cooled exhaust, you'd need an adapter plate to fit the HX30W to it. I've often wondered about the water cooled exhaust and turbo because the heat is the energy that drives the turbo. In automotive applications you want to keep the heat in, not take it out. There would be no water cooled turbine housing for that. Stock marine turbos were model H1C on the lower powered units. Not nearly as good as the HX30W you have. Nothing really wrong with the injection pump you have, just not one we commonly work with. The 150 HP marine 4bt came with a VE pump which is very common on road use 4bt's as well. Changing to one of those would require a bit of new parts such as a new front gear housing, drive gear, and new injection lines. Changing to a P7100 would cost an arm and a leg. That pump was only used on the 250 HP 4bt marine. Your aftercooler looks like the one I've typically seen on these engines. You'll have to get a circulating pump that fits in the port just below the injection pump. You certainly want to do the "Killer Dowel Pin" repair. Might also have the injectors tested to be sure they are OK. Also, check the turbo for any unusual play. Rebuild kits are not expensive for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
With this power,the engine will be safe for 2hr drive to arrive on the fishing spot and at what rpm do I need to drive the engine?
 

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If all is working well, you aren't going to hurt the engine running near the governor limit. What will hurt is fuel mileage. Your engine with 110 HP @ 2200 RPM possibly has 332 lb ft torque @ 1500 RPM. That is a lot of torque which is your pulling power. What kind of speed does your drive system want to see? My knowledge of marine stuff is very limited. I know prop pitch can affect speed at the same RPM. My family used to have a boat possibly before you were born. LOL. We changed the prop one time and got about 2 or 3 more MPH but it took longer to get up to speed. Difference in a high speed and high torque prop. You might need to talk to a marine dealer. I read a Cummins info sheet on the 250 HP engine and on that one they didn't recommend full throttle more than 10% of the time which would be 6 minutes per hour. That engine was just a different animal. If 2000 RPM would give you enough speed you wouldn't even need to change the pump governor. However more HP usually comes with more RPM. Your engine may actually have 150 HP if you put the governor speed to around 2800 RPM which is what the marine model had. Of course the torque is going to drop like a rock much past 2000 RPM. The 4bt doesn't have a very wide torque band. One mod to the engine you might consider if your going to push the RPM up would be the heavy duty valve springs. They aren't very expensive and you don't want to float a valve. Probably wouldn't under 3000 RPM but a little insurance never hurts.
 

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This may well be a apples to oranges comparison, BUT I routinely run my 4BT at 2,000 RPM for hours at a time when making a road trip here in the Southwest U.S. with temps varying between 20*F to 110*F. The limiting factor I have faced is coolant temps in the summer time, looks to me like I should have run a bigger radiator for this power level.If it were ME I'd research prop size/pitch and see if I could get at cruising power what the hull requires from the engine at ~2,000 RPM leaving the higher RPM's to get her out of the hole and on plane. I would bet there are prop pitch calculators out there just as there are gear calculators for the wheeled vehicle crowd if so that would be time well spent......$.02
 

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Eggman918,can I ask you what turbo do you have please?.My boat will gain speed after 2400rpm.At that rpm the boat speed will be 21knots with a propeller 17 by 23 four blades .My friend came and opened the diesel from the back of the pump a the engine can reach 3200rpm.I am afraid to run the engine at this rpm.What is the best rpm for this engine so I will not harm the engine?
 

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I can not truly speak to a marine application but to get the best fuel efficiency If it would still plane comfortably with it backed off to 2,000 would be ideal.
I'm running compounds with a 42mm HX-30 and a Wh1c with a VE pump and 5x.012" injectors, I run it pretty hard but it never sees above 2,100 RPM except when going through the lower gears in direct and OD 2,000-2,100 is what it sees but I'm comfortable with it there for hours on end.......

I almost forgot this is at ~5,000' above sea level which is one reason I chose to go with compounds, it's just easier on the turbos where the air is thinner.
 

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One of the main issues with running higher RPM level is increased wear on the engine. The Cummins generally likes to operate in the under 2000 RPM area because that where the most torque is. A 3200 RPM governor spring is one commonly used on road engine mods. The standard governor was 2500 RPM. Wouldn't want to operate at that speed all day long but the engine could probably handle it but the fuel mileage would be like you flushed a toilet. I'd definitely want the HD valve spring on that just to be safe. Another item that is common on Marine 4bt is a crankshaft dampener. The extra mass it adds helps with the vibration inherent to the 4bt. They can be vibrating little monsters. Steve, engine cooling should never be an issue if you're using water the boat is running in. That water will never be air temp so that's probably less than 80 deg F. Main issue I'd think would be sure the water intake didn't get clogged by debris. Not sure what marine engine use to keep junk out of the water passages. One thing that you haven't mention is instruments to monitor the engine. On a turbo diesel, you want an EGT gauge and a boost gauge as minimum. Another item to check on you engine is the lift pump. Yours is a piston type high pressure lift pump. Very dependable. One area to check is the fuel inlet area. There is a screen in that port to catch larger debris and if it becomes clogged you lose a lot of power. Does you engine have a single or dual fuel filter? At least one should have a water separator so you can be sure to keep the water out of the injection system. Another possible mod would be a bypass oil filter system which helps keep the oil extra clean. Not a necessity, but can extend oil changes dramatically.
 

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One of the main issues with running higher RPM level is increased wear on the engine. The Cummins generally likes to operate in the under 2000 RPM area because that where the most torque is. A 3200 RPM governor spring is one commonly used on road engine mods. The standard governor was 2500 RPM. Wouldn't want to operate at that speed all day long but the engine could probably handle it but the fuel mileage would be like you flushed a toilet. I'd definitely want the HD valve spring on that just to be safe. Another item that is common on Marine 4bt is a crankshaft dampener. The extra mass it adds helps with the vibration inherent to the 4bt. They can be vibrating little monsters. Steve, engine cooling should never be an issue if you're using water the boat is running in. That water will never be air temp so that's probably less than 80 deg F. Main issue I'd think would be sure the water intake didn't get clogged by debris. Not sure what marine engine use to keep junk out of the water passages. One thing that you haven't mention is instruments to monitor the engine. On a turbo diesel, you want an EGT gauge and a boost gauge as minimum. Another item to check on you engine is the lift pump. Yours is a piston type high pressure lift pump. Very dependable. One area to check is the fuel inlet area. There is a screen in that port to catch larger debris and if it becomes clogged you lose a lot of power. Does you engine have a single or dual fuel filter? At least one should have a water separator so you can be sure to keep the water out of the injection system. Another possible mod would be a bypass oil filter system which helps keep the oil extra clean. Not a necessity, but can extend oil changes dramatically.
The unlimited cooling potential is one reason the marine engines came in higher tunes from the factory, I was just trying to point out that cooling was my only limiting factor for pushing it hard. ;)
 
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