4BT/ NV4500 Placement in 1983 CJ7

373 Views 20 Replies 4 Participants Last post by TheJeepGuy, 2 d ago

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · 8 d ago

We have started swapping a 4BT VE Pump in a CJ7 with a NV4500. Where do yall place the combo for the best results? I picked up a set of Farmstronglogic motor mounts and marked on the frame where they should go but have a lot of room behind the engine. Did this work for the ones who did this combo? Or would you have moved the engine back some and if you did that was your gear shifter still in the right place in the cut out? I am also a high school teacher doing this with his class so trying to get all the info I can.

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

eggman918

· #2 · 8 d ago

OOPS Miss post...............

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #3 · 8 d ago

eggman918 said:
OOPS Miss post...............

Where did it need to go? Sorry new here

eggman918

· #4 · 8 d ago

VE pump timing ? I needed to take Pics and did it when looking at your post came back and posted it on your thread.
By BAD
For your issue if it were my project I would determine the minimum rear driveline length/angle that is in spec and start there, but I am OCD about weight distribution front to rear as this has SO much to do with how your rig will respond when some Fool makes things complicated. The farther rearward and lower you can get things to set the better......$.02

Reactions: 2

eggman918

· #5 · 8 d ago

Shifter would be one of the last things I'd worry about, minor weld/blacksmith job to make ergonomics work.
Great class project by the way and mu Respect for sharing it wit the "Kids" My shop has always been open to anyone that had the gumption to want to "Build it not Buy it".
5 of the people that passed through my little home shop used what was learned there to get their feet in he door of a shop and made a base for spouse, kids and house,
I spent 40 years as a machinist involved with some amazing projects but those 5 "Kids" were my greatest achievements I made for my Trade.

Reactions: 4

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #6 · 8 d ago

eggman918 said:
Shifter would be one of the last things I'd worry about, minor weld/blacksmith job to make ergonomics work.
Great class project by the way and mu Respect for sharing it wit the "Kids" My shop has always been open to anyone that had the gumption to want to "Build it not Buy it".
5 of the people that passed through my little home shop used what was learned there to get their feet in he door of a shop and made a base for spouse, kids and house,
I spent 40 years as a machinist involved with some amazing projects but those 5 "Kids" were my greatest achievements I made for my Trade.

Yes sir the kids do make it worth it and stuff like this makes them want to learn.

I just want to make sure everything lines up or know what we have to cut so as to go ahead and show how we will measure and then cut to adjust for the trans. Thank you for your help.

TRS

· #7 · 8 d ago

I am in the middle of a very similar project('84 CJ7/early GM NV4500/D300) and I set mine back approximately 3". I am using a fiberglass body on custom mounts but it is in the same position relative to frame as stock. Planning to fab a custom floor plate to replace the stock one that moves the shifter holes back.

My Jeep was originally a 258/T4/D300 - I am using an Advanced Adapters bellhousing and transfer case adapter with the new setup and rear driveshaft length will only decrease about 1".

eggman918

· #8 · 8 d ago

Here is some data for drivelines.
You have more leeway with everything else so start there within constraints of engine bay more or less dont over look radiator, IC and fan clearance in the initial planning as it's a PITA to rethink later.

spicerparts.com

Spicer Driveline Operating Angle Calculator

Measure the angles of each component in your drivetrain, then use the Spicer Driveline Operating Angle Calculator to find the operating angle of each u-joint in your drivetrain.

spicerparts.com

spicerparts.com

4xshaft.com

Driveline Geometry 101

Driveshaft Angle Explained This video will demonstrate the proper angles for a drive shaft in a stock Jeep or Truck and how the rules change when you add a suspension lift. The video below demonstrates what is happening to the shaft at different angles, how improper angles can cause speed...

4xshaft.com

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #9 · 8 d ago

TRS said:
I am in the middle of a very similar project('84 CJ7/early GM NV4500/D300) and I set mine back approximately 3". I am using a fiberglass body on custom mounts but it is in the same position relative to frame as stock. Planning to fab a custom floor plate to replace the stock one that moves the shifter holes back.

My Jeep was originally a 258/T4/D300 - I am using an Advanced Adapters bellhousing and transfer case adapter with the new setup and rear driveshaft length will only decrease about 1".

Where does your engine sit? If you measure the front of your frame to the timing case of your 4BT how far is it back?

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #10 · 8 d ago

This is what I am looking at basing my measurements from.

TRS

· #11 · 7 d ago

Scatter1941 said:
This is what I am looking at basing my measurements from.

I looked through my photos and can't find anything that shows the distance from the front of the frame. I'll take a measurement when I get back to the shop - unfortunately, it's 20 miles from my house and I don't get there every day.

My engine is offset 1" to the driver side.

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #12 · 7 d ago

TRS said:
I looked through my photos and can't find anything that shows the distance from the front of the frame. I'll take a measurement when I get back to the shop - unfortunately, it's 20 miles from my house and I don't get there every day.

My engine is offset 1" to the driver side.

Did you add an intercooler? The mounts from Farm Strong Inc will offset to the drivers side 1" also.

TRS

· #13 · 7 d ago

Scatter1941 said:
Did you add an intercooler? The mounts from Farm Strong Inc will offset to the drivers side 1" also.

My engine is 120HP CPL 857 with air/water aftercooler - may switch to air/air later.

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #14 · 7 d ago

TRS said:
My engine is 120HP CPL 857 with air/water aftercooler - may switch to air/air later.

How did you run that set up? I was going to do air to air but would have to knock the engine back 3.5" which is not a problem but when you go back the frame rail goes down. So not sure if I will run into trouble if I don't bring the engine back up.

TRS

· #15 · 7 d ago

View attachment 135984

View attachment 135985

The aftercooler I have is the stock Cummins setup - sits on the intake manifold and uses engine coolant for the liquid side.

(engine setup shown in first pic is before installing the Advanced Adapters D300 adapter - stock GM 32 spline shown.) View attachment 135984 View attachment 135985

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #16 · 6 d ago

TRS said:
View attachment 135984

View attachment 135985

The aftercooler I have is the stock Cummins setup - sits on the intake manifold and uses engine coolant for the liquid side.

(engine setup shown in first pic is before installing the Advanced Adapters D300 adapter - stock GM 32 spline shown.) View attachment 135984 View attachment 135985

How does that setup run? Engine Temps?

TRS

· #17 · 5 d ago

Since mine is a long term project I don't have operating experience with the engine(just test run). But from what I have read this setup is an improvement over non - IC engines, but not as good as a properly sized air to air - mainly because of the physical size of the cooler and the temp of the cooling medium.

Many of the older design Cummins powered big rigs utilized this design, as well as a lot of industrial/stationary Cummins equipment.

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #18 · 5 d ago

TRS said:
Since mine is a long term project I don't have operating experience with the engine(just test run). But from what I have read this setup is an improvement over non - IC engines, but not as good as a properly sized air to air - mainly because of the physical size of the cooler and the temp of the cooling medium.

Many of the older design Cummins powered big rigs utilized this design, as well as a lot of industrial/stationary Cummins equipment.

Where do the hoses plug in to for that on the engine?

TRS

· #19 · 5 d ago

www.4btswaps.com

4BT Aftercooler help

Ok, so I’m new here but have been around this site for a while , I have a 1995 land cruiser with a 4BTA the aftercooler routing is setup strange , I picked this project up from someone else . One of the lines from the aftercooler comes out under cylinder 1 next to the T stat housing and routes...

www.4btswaps.com

www.4btswaps.com

Here is a link to another thread with a lot of info

Scatter1941

Discussion Starter · #20 · 4 d ago

TRS said:
4BT Aftercooler help

Ok, so I’m new here but have been around this site for a while , I have a 1995 land cruiser with a 4BTA the aftercooler routing is setup strange , I picked this project up from someone else . One of the lines from the aftercooler comes out under cylinder 1 next to the T stat housing and routes...

www.4btswaps.com

Here is a link to another thread with a lot of info

TRS said:
4BT Aftercooler help

Ok, so I’m new here but have been around this site for a while , I have a 1995 land cruiser with a 4BTA the aftercooler routing is setup strange , I picked this project up from someone else . One of the lines from the aftercooler comes out under cylinder 1 next to the T stat housing and routes...

www.4btswaps.com

Here is a link to another thread with a lot of info

Well that answers a few questions. I have a port right above the water pump on the oil cooler side I can tap in to and then return on the head. I was going to go aftermarket to save some room.

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