Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums banner

4BT Should the A-Pump be Swapped

994 Views 29 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Bwrmoto
I have a 4bt with an A-Pump that has the RQV governor on it. I know this is the better governor to have. My question lies because the injector pump is needing a rebuild and I am trying to decide if it worth it to change it to something else being most other pumps seem to have a lot more knowledge surrounding them.

Brown Gas Font Motor vehicle Tints and shades
See less See more
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
An A pump can be used on a road application. It's a matter of how much power you plan on. That pump with an RQV governor is not all that common. The A pump can be modified to produce huge amounts of power but few if any ever go that route. You might get it up to around 200 HP without major changes. Depends on what turbo you have. Would likely want to change the governor springs to 3000 RPM to help with gear shifts. That is the same governor as found on the P7100 pump. That a pump likely only has 9.5mm plungers which will limit how much fuel it can pass to the injectors. The stock P7100 has 12.0mm plungers. That's a huge difference. Changing to a VE pump cost you between $2000 and $3000. You'd need the pump, lift pump, fuel plumbing, front drive gear, front gear housing, injection lines, and injectors. That adds up to a lot of money.
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Right now the turbo that is on it is the HX30W. As far as what power I am looking for, I would love 200 to be honest. Much more than that and I would start having issues in the frame it is going in. So, I am not in any ways trying to make some monster engine.

I have to get Injectors already as well as get another turbo. The one I have needs rebuilding.
If you have the H X30W that's a big step in the right direction. If your old turbo isn't too bad a rebuild kit is not that expensive. You'd need to adjust the boost pressure to around 30 PSI which doesn't over stress an HX30W. Will need an intercooler to keep the air supply cool. That last part will be adjusting the fuel from the pump. You mention injectors and on those pumps they are a bit weird. That's an in line pump but a low pressure output. Injector pop pressure is the same as a VE pump but injector bodies are the same as a P pump. Makes it kind of tricky to get an upgrade in size. Do you have the serial number on your engine? I might can look it up and see what specs it has.
I so wish I had the serial. The CPL plate of course isn't there either. I, sadly, don't have a ton of information on this engine. My dad works for a big Construction company and they had this engine laying on it's side with one injector pulled in the back of their yard. This picture is the closest I have to any type of serial. It seems to have been rebuilt at some point.
Wood Gas Twig Metal Terrestrial plant
See less See more
Look to see if there's a number stamped on the back of the block from the rebuild.
Yes, that is a possibility. If Cummins did the rebuild they often stamp the ESN on the back of the block just below the head. I see the lift pump and fuel feed line are missing. An injector pulled indicates there were some issue with the engine. Going to need a tear down to be sure there are no major issues
Yes, that is a possibility. If Cummins did the rebuild they often stamp the ESN on the back of the block just below the head. I see the lift pump and fuel feed line are missing. An injector pulled indicates there were some issue with the engine. Going to need a tear down to be sure there are no major issues
Look to see if there's a number stamped on the back of the block from the rebuild.
I was all ready to tell you guys I couldn't find the serial as I have looked before but decided to check one more time and this is what I found.

I was worried about the injector being pulled as well but after a compression test and I have the oil pan off currently I don't know what else it could be. Compression read 360 on all cylinders except the 2nd was reading 400 even.

It reads 60124702 P
Artifact Font Rectangle Concrete Carving
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
OK. 60124702 is the new serial number assigned to your rebuilt engine. It was rebuilt by Cummins on Dec 15, 2009. Engine is a CPL 2302 originally built in 1998. It has 110 HP @ 2500 RPM and 278 lb ft of torque @ 1500 RPM. Any particular info you need? I have a parts manual for that CPL so I can tell you most any info. The info on Quick Serve may tell if any parts such as pistons or bearings were changed to a larger size.
  • Love
Reactions: 1
OK. 60124702 is the new serial number assigned to your rebuilt engine. It was rebuilt by Cummins on Dec 15, 2009. Engine is a CPL 2302 originally built in 1998. It has 110 HP @ 2500 RPM and 278 lb ft of torque @ 1500 RPM. Any particular info you need? I have a parts manual for that CPL so I can tell you most any info. The info on Quick Serve may tell if any parts such as pistons or bearings were changed to a larger size.
Wow, that is some good information already! I am not even sure what information is the most important. If I have to go into any more I suppose I would need to find out about the pistons and such. That would be a huge help for sure.

Thank you so much.
While I am on the subject of this engine. Anyone know where to get 3923004/3921689/3921688 fan hub assembly? I can't seem to find one even used anywhere. I know they were only produced for like 2.5 years.
No problem. Sometimes there are only minor changes in a rebuild such as new piston rings, bearings, etc. If the block has been bored or the crank turned then more parts get changed. Now for that fan hub. It's about as rare as hen's teeth. The first number you have 3923004 is the current one. The other 2 are obsolete and there was one other number 3923005. Must remember that hub requires a special pulley as well and it's just as scarce. And on top of that you need a special fan clutch and fan blade to complete the assembly. Now this is the good news. The bad news is the cost. Cummins sells 3923004 for $657.09 and they are currently out of stock. Source One Parts Center has it for $573.52. The fan pulley is part 3917674. Cummins shows that as still a current number but no price. Probably afraid they'd cause heart failure. Seems like the last time I saw a price it was around $300. Now, to make your day I may have one. Bought that sucker years ago but never used it. I'd have to check and see if it may have left without permission. Still had part of an old fan clutch attached but that's no problem.
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
No problem. Sometimes there are only minor changes in a rebuild such as new piston rings, bearings, etc. If the block has been bored or the crank turned then more parts get changed. Now for that fan hub. It's about as rare as hen's teeth. The first number you have 3923004 is the current one. The other 2 are obsolete and there was one other number 3923005. Must remember that hub requires a special pulley as well and it's just as scarce. And on top of that you need a special fan clutch and fan blade to complete the assembly. Now this is the good news. The bad news is the cost. Cummins sells 3923004 for $657.09 and they are currently out of stock. Source One Parts Center has it for $573.52. The fan pulley is part 3917674. Cummins shows that as still a current number but no price. Probably afraid they'd cause heart failure. Seems like the last time I saw a price it was around $300. Now, to make your day I may have one. Bought that sucker years ago but never used it. I'd have to check and see if it may have left without permission. Still had part of an old fan clutch attached but that's no problem.
I am sure glad you are letting me down easy.... But for real, I knew they were hard to come by, but I didn't realize that they required a special pulley or blade. That sucks. This engine will be going in my 74 FJ55. A user by the name of J Mack went through a lot of trial and error to come to the conclusion this was the support that was needed to work. He ended up making one. I, however, am not even close to that talented.
Yeah, that fan hub has been in demand for years but so far the Chinese haven't started making one. About the only application was the '91.5-93 Dodge intercooled engine. And it would be exceedingly rare to ever replace one. The fan and clutch are not so big a deal and those you can find at the auto parts store or Dodge dealer. But even those 2 parts sell for around $300 in the used market. If you had a long time Dodge dealer local to you it might be possible they have those parts gathering dust but wouldn't bet on it. Have to remember those parts are 30 years old. Lot of money to gain about an inch of radiator clearance. Here's what the difference in the 2 pulleys look like.
Automotive tire Tire Motor vehicle Tread Vehicle brake
See less See more
  • Like
Reactions: 1
Yeah, that fan hub has been in demand for years but so far the Chinese haven't started making one. About the only application was the '91.5-93 Dodge intercooled engine. And it would be exceedingly rare to ever replace one. The fan and clutch are not so big a deal and those you can find at the auto parts store or Dodge dealer. But even those 2 parts sell for around $300 in the used market. If you had a long time Dodge dealer local to you it might be possible they have those parts gathering dust but wouldn't bet on it. Have to remember those parts are 30 years old. Lot of money to gain about an inch of radiator clearance. Here's what the difference in the 2 pulleys look like.
View attachment 135859
I have attempted to ask around here and seems no has or for that matter know of how to get their hands on one. Which was the feeling I was getting.
you might check the wrecking junk yards for dodge truck parts. car-part.com can be searched by specific engine and years for nationwide listings. you might try the other Cummins forums too.
I screwed up, by stating "cutting" mounting flange, instead of pulley, the pulley being steel can be cut & welded, as too reduce its height down to the shorter and older pulley configuration shown in the images posted by char1355
.
On my build, I used a 3rd gen Cummins hub mounting bracket, the idler pulley mounting ear on the 3rd gen bracket can be removed or left in place.
Motor vehicle Automotive exterior Auto part Vehicle Automotive fuel system
See less See more
Welding cast iron is not a fun thing. Can be done. Then you have to come up with a custom pulley mount and the pulley. Here's the diagram for that fan hub. About the only common part in that unit is the bearing and the bolts.

Font Auto part Technology Engineering Circle
See less See more
Looks like my choices are becoming pretty narrow. Thanks everyone for the help/suggestions this far.
Is your main issue on the fan the distance from the radiator?
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top