[Brighty]

OK guys, Hi from Australia.... I've been searching this forum for a few hours now reading alot of different threads but want to know specifics from you people in the know from the US!!
I may be able to get my hands on a 4bta engine at a good price that I believe was a stationary industrial motor and now had a broken cam shaft.
The hard question is, it's been sitting on the floor of a shed a while and need to know whats involved with converting this to an automotive use engine? Looking at converting my Nissan GU Patrol with the re4 auto behind it to keep things as simple as possible.
Engine No is 44454823 on the compliance plate if that helps.

If anyone can point me in the right direction would be massively appreciated.
Thanks
Brighty

 

[Russ McLean]

That "might" be an SAE bellhousing adapter. This will get you started: Tech Tip #41: SAE Bell Housings Made Easy! | Foley Marine & Industrial Engines

I have no idea what bellhousing pattern a re4 transmission has - Finding or making an adapter might be difficult.

> "... a broken cam shaft. " I suspect that caused other internal damage. Search here for "Killer Dowel Pin" (KDP) - I don't have time to rewrite that info - essentially, the KDP falls out, goes thru the front timing gears, breaks stuff (sometimes the front timing case) and is most likely your " a broken cam shaft. ".

Possible governor issues, depending on if the engine was made for a fixed speed or variable speed application.

Russ

 

[char1355]

OK, here's a bit of info on the engine. Serial # 44454823 is CPL594. Model # is B3.9-C116. Probably means it had 116 HP. It was built 2/28/1990 at the Consolidated Diesel factory, quite probably here in North Carolina, USA. Injection pump is Cummins 3909590 or Bosch part 0 460 424 029. It is a VE injection pump so that part might be a plus in your favor. The turbo is part 3802290 which is a small H1C without the waste gate. Not the best turbo in the world if any degree of improved performance is planned but is what came on the 4bt road engines with VE injection pump. Could this engine have possibly been from a Case industrial machine? The engine is equipped with a water to air aftercooler which would make it very similar to a CPL857 road engine. That is some general info and now for some of the less pretty part. You say it has a broken cam. Not unheard of, but you'll need to tear the engine down because that most likely damaged a lot of other parts. You can be looking at a new cam, lifters, push rods, valves and maybe pistons and rings. When a cam breaks, it leaves valves in a down position while pistons are coming up. Makes an ugly mess. Usually bent valves and damaged pistons. You always want to do basics such as bearings, seals, and gaskets. Also, your oil pan has the sump in the forward position. You'll probably want it in the rear position which will require an new pickup tube. Not a terribly expensive item. You'll also need to move the oil dipstick to the rear position and plug the hole at the front. May want a different style dipstick as that one if very short but that's your call. The engine has flywheel housing 3903282 which is an SAE3 unit. Big question would be how you attach your transmission to the engine. Not that knowledgeable on the RE4 transmission but I believe it is computer controlled so you'll need an outboard controller. Not cheap. You'll need a torque converter with a stall speed around 1300 RPM. I'm not sure that transmission can handle the power output of a 4bt. These engines are hard on light duty automatics. There will be other work to do on the engine such as the KDP repair. Don't expect this to be a cheap project, but in you country you are sort of a long way from the parts source. If you need any other info on the engine I looked it up on Cummins Quick Serve on line.

 

[Brighty]

Thanks for the info guys.
re4 adapter isn't an issue as we have a company here in OZ that make them to suit this conversion with 6bt/4bt.
Not too concerned with the sump reversal, oil pick up & dip stick, thats the easy part.
Looks like if I wanted to make this work I'd be better off stripping down to analyze the internal damage first before committing to go through with it. What would this engine be worth to buy in the current state with broken cam shaft and unknown internal condition?

At a rough cost, whats a decent 4bt worth to buy over there? Good condition/low miles etc? What are the better versions of the 4bt to grab if possible?
Import could be another option as we have very few of these motors avail in OZ and hard to come by, but not really keen on going as big as the 6bt, so a good compromise in the 4bt

Thanks,
Brighty

 

[char1355]

These things are getting less available. Core engines often used to be found under $1000 US. You're buying an unknown. How much do they want for it? It's 30 years old. Figure you're going to spend at least $2000-3000 to get it back into shape assuming you do most of the labor. It could cost a whole lot more depending on what you find when you tear it down. We've seen guys start with a budget of $1000 to refresh the engine and end up spending over $4000 due to unknown issues. They can become money hogs. Companies here in the US sell rebuilt units with that CPL for around $6000 plus a $2000 core charge.

 

[Goat]

Knowing what I know now I would pass on a old CPL. I have a 593 and there so many updates that you end up hemorrhaging money.

I just want you to be aware that you might have to potentially replace the 9 mm head, the 9 mm injectors, the oil cooler pressure regulating valve, the delivery valves in the injection pump. If the injection pump has to be rebuilt most likely they will find that the cam plate and rollers are pitted, replacement of these components is an additional cost.

 

[Oka]

I and a few others that I know have converted 6bt genset engines to light truck engines here in Oz. BUT they were much newer 20XX engines with STORM blocks but built from the factory as 5.9L 6bt's for staationary engine use.
We mostly used Dodge Ram bits from Gen 1 engines to convert them for use in 4wd's. Problem is that even when we did it back in 2012 or similar the necessary parts were starting to be hard to find both in the US and Canada. Virtually unprocurable in Oz unless you find a wrecked Dodge Ram or similar.
Basically we needed sumps, oil pickups, dipstick and tube, ancillary mounts for aircon, alternator and engine fan, engine thermo fan, VE injection pump, injectors and a host of little bits and pieces. We were able to use the industrial exhaust manifold for our setup and some needed new turbo's.
If you PM me an email address I can send you a doc I wrote detailing the bits required on a 6bt.

 

[char1355]

Wouldn't a 6bt be kind of a tight fit in a patrol, not to mention its 1100 lb weight? Have to figure a much larger radiator and probably an intercooler. Being in a country where Cummins isn't a everyday word does have its drawbacks.

 

[Brighty]

Ok guys, still looking at a 4bt swap but have a guy over here in Australia thats already done it and selling his rig.
It's all up and running bar the Intercoolr needs doing, AC, Tacho & Heater plumbing and a few small bits and bobs.
Question is, its a 1985 engine that came out of an airport baggage tug and has had IP worked on, Larger Injectors where as this one I can rebuild is a 1990 model 4BTA and needs all the work done.
Obviously on is bt the other bta. but what are the major difference? Is there any significant difference between the year models
Cheers
Brighty

 

[char1355]

1985 would have been the second year of production for the 4bt. The main engine parts were the same as that 1990 4bta. Main differences would have been the injection pump system and the aftercooler unit. With this one you're dealing with a running engine. Need to find out exactly what all has been done to it such as KDP repair, changes to injection pump, what injectors, etc. If you have an engine serial number I can look it up and see if there is any history on it.