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Discussion Starter #1
First off new to this Forum but not new to the diesel life. Have looked around and whatnot to try and locate the info but little to no luck.

Looking to change engines in my build currently. Originally was going with the LS 6.0, which I will have up for sale soon with complete engine, wire harness, entire front clip, original gas pedal and computers as well. LOL

Quick build plan breakdown
  • 95 Toyota ext cab
  • 4BTA
  • NV4500
  • 203/205 doubler
  • HP Dana 60
  • 14 bolt rear
  • Full coilovers
So just starting to swap ideas for the power plant and came to the agreement of using the 4BTA simply cause its three wires to run so electrical issues are gone and the engine over all is ALL mechanical so less chances of breakdowns after a full rebuild. Weight isn't an issue due to the coil overs getting sprung to the final weighing of the rig. Will slightly upgrade for more power but nothing crazy...turbo and injector's with the usual P-Pump mods as well. With maybe boreover the cylinders but probably not.

So the hunt for the engine has begun buttttt trying to ensure I get and know what im getting when I finally go to pick one up. So the ultimate question here is where is there a serial number listing of engines that were in fact the 'A' versions in the event the engine is already pulled from the vehicle? Also is the ID Plate located on the side of the front cover the only or best identifier for which series of the 4BT it in fact is?

I know they cam in bread trucks, step vans and all that and to get the post 98 so its a 4BTA and not the 4BT.
 

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If you are looking for a P7100 4bt there was only one which is CPL1839. Those were found in a variety of delivery vans but were probably a very small percentage of the 4bt's. Those all use an air to air intercooler. The stock turbo is an HX30W which is very good. No need to replace that or the injectors unless you're going well over 200 HP. That CPL will appear on the ID plate on the side of the front gear housing. Hard to mistake that injection pump as it covers 2/3 of the side of the engine. It's a big puppy. There was also an industrial engine that came with a P3000 injection pump. Looks very similar but not the same pump performance wise. Those are usually seen with a water/air aftercooler. The 4bt/4bta is sometimes a bit confusing. We have even seen engines that were 4btaa. Don't know of any serial # listing for specific engines. Below is a photo of one from a van. This one has an Eaton 5 speed which doesn't have OD. The transmission housing is SAE2. If you happened to get one with that SAE housing, there are now transmission housings for the NV4500 to bolt to that. That bellhousing is less than $400 which would be cheaper than changing to the Dodge parts on the engine. Just something to keep in mind. First you need to find an engine and they are getting more scarce. You mentioned the engine needing 3 wires to run. It can actually run with just 1 wire if you wish. In fact I don't remember but 2 wires. One for the starter solenoid and one for the injection pump solenoid. If you change the pump to mechanical which is easy then only the starter wire is needed.
 

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If you are looking for a P7100 4bt there was only one which is CPL1839. Those were found in a variety of delivery vans but were probably a very small percentage of the 4bt's. Those all use an air to air intercooler. The stock turbo is an HX30W which is very good. No need to replace that or the injectors unless you're going well over 200 HP. That CPL will appear on the ID plate on the side of the front gear housing. Hard to mistake that injection pump as it covers 2/3 of the side of the engine. It's a big puppy. There was also an industrial engine that came with a P3000 injection pump. Looks very similar but not the same pump performance wise. Those are usually seen with a water/air aftercooler. The 4bt/4bta is sometimes a bit confusing. We have even seen engines that were 4btaa. Don't know of any serial # listing for specific engines. Below is a photo of one from a van. This one has an Eaton 5 speed which doesn't have OD. The transmission housing is SAE2. If you happened to get one with that SAE housing, there are now transmission housings for the NV4500 to bolt to that. That bellhousing is less than $400 which would be cheaper than changing to the Dodge parts on the engine. Just something to keep in mind. First you need to find an engine and they are getting more scarce. You mentioned the engine needing 3 wires to run. It can actually run with just 1 wire if you wish. In fact I don't remember but 2 wires. One for the starter solenoid and one for the injection pump solenoid. If you change the pump to mechanical which is easy then only the starter wire is needed.
Basically easiest is to go by the CPL1839 from the tag to verify its a P-Pumped version and not any of the other varieties?Although at a glance I'm fairly confident that I can pinpoint if its a P Pump or not.

And looking at different versions due to them being bolted to so many different applications and I'm seeing basically two different versions of the adapter plate, Engine > Adapter Plate > Bell housing. Basically have seen two distinctive adapter plates, one that's skinny and another that's easily 3 inches thick. Know Im simply only assuming that for the NV4500 to be adaptable I would need the adapter plate that is skinner versus the thicker one correct? I know that I would need a bellhousing most likely from Advanced Adapters due to it being from a 94 4X4 chevy.

And I recall always needing a third wire to GROUND out the engine to the rest of the vehicle as well :geek:

Also been looking all over and aint nothing on Craigslist that I could even pull it from, at least not for were im located at.....NorCal Area.
 

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If your NV4500 is a 1994 GM it is unique to their brand. The '93-94 transmissions had a special bolt pattern so you only have a very few options to adapt that one. First, you'll need the GM bellhousing for that transmission. Next you'll need an adapter plate, flywheel, and clutch assembly. I only know of 2 possibles there. One is the one found on a few of the GM P30 vans with a 4bt. The vast majority of those vans were automatic but there were some manual. The adapter plate is the same for both transmissions. You should note that the adapter has a tilt built in. In its original application, the engine was tilted to clear an obstruction in the van. There has been some mention of a non tilted version but that one is very rare. Also, the GM flywheel to use with that setup is not common or cheap. A brand new one if you could find it may be over $1000. The clutch assembly is an 11" GM so nothing special there. Here's a link to a company that sells a complete GM adapter plate (non tilted version), flywheel, and bolts for $995. Cummins Chevy Manual Transmission adapter kits That's probably a fair price. You might find a setup with a member here by placing a want ad. The tilted adapter plate is Cummins 3914428, flywheel is 3918055, starter spacer 3934080, flywheel bolts 3901395 (8 req), flywheel washers 3900269 (8 req), and adapter plate bolts 3920447 (7 req for tilted version,8 on non tilted version). The starter for those is Denso part 128000-0545, You can also find an aftermarket adapter plate from Destroked for $795 and requires a custom flywheel. That gets very pricey. There may be a third option. If the engine happened to have the SAE adapter and clutch assembly, there is an adapter made for the NV4500 which is less than $400. I do not know if those will accept that odd GM bolt pattern. Those may be deigned for the Dodge transmission. '95 up GM and all Dodge NV4500's had the same bolt pattern. If your transmission had been 1 year later you could also change the input shaft and bearing retainer to a Dodge type and use the Dodge/Cummins adapter setup. That odd transmission just limits your options.
 

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So typical but hey paid 500 bucks for the running truck just for the 14 bolt and planned on parting it all out, well when I picked it up was surprised to find to having the NV4500 so not complaining about the 1K bonus on that pick. LOL So I suppose a little extra sourcing is needed.

The tilted adapter, would you know of which way it tilts the engine? I'm assuming down towards the ground if it was a clearance issue.

Although at the cost adding up thru the roof so quickly might be easier and cheaper to just sell the tranny I currently got for a more easily adaptable one???? But way before that is fully considered Some more homework on my end will be needed. Lots of options from what you said and all.

Bummer part is when I parted out the tranny I think I sold it with the OE bell housing and all as well.:poop:
 

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That particular NV4500 is popular with the off road guys because it has a much lower 1st gear, 6.34 vs 5.61. The 1st gear is not synchronized either. You could probably sell that one or swap it to someone for the later model. With the '95 up model you have better options. Tilt on the Cummins GM adapter is from side to side. If you look at the adapter plate it has 4 bolts on the driver's side and 3 on the passenger's side where it attaches to the block. Not sure which way that tilts it. Wouldn't affect ground clearance. If you got a later model GM NV4500, you can change the input shaft and bearing retainer to the Dodge type. Those parts are not expensive. Then you'd need a Dodge Cummins bellhouning and it would bolt to the B series engines with the standard adapter plate and clutch assembly. That way, if you're running a GM transfer case the transmission bolts right up. The Dodge adapter plate you want is from '94-02 and you can find one for around $250 or less. That is Cummins part # 3923045. You can find the flywheel for under $200. Allow a bit for bolts and for around $500 you'd have the same adapter setup as that $1000 one for the GM. There were just tons of those engines used in Dodge applications and very few in GM. That input shaft assembly can be found for around $100 for the 1-1/4" size which was standard on the Cummins. There is an optional 1-3/8" size on the aftermarket. Would require a different clutch disc. Another thing you might note. With GM adapter the starter is on the passenger's side and with the Dodge it's on the driver's side. Of course they have different starters.
 

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Yea it was the ultimate craigslist find. Was a running truck for 500 bucks and had the right geared NV4500 so I kept it of course. And know that I look back when I was researching the NV4500 and which year to get the lower gearing or granny 1st was the reasoning why I picked this specific year. Simply cause its going in a rockcrawler. LOL Wasn't all to worried about all the gears being syncros simply cause that's a noise thing mainly.

As for the clocking of the engine, I don't see any need for that in my setup, so that part of it all is a wash for me, but still good to know for knowledge and all.


Pretty sure this setup would work with my current tranny my. Although is the adapter plate actually needed though :unsure::unsure:. Unless I'm missing something. Cause if im sourcing the motor and trying to find one with it and don't need it my options are a lot slimmer.

All though after reading all that again and the video not sure if I simply confused myself more or what but sounds like the video is one of the options you said about. HAHAHAHAHAHAH
 

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The tilted Cummins/GM adapter plate usually isn't an issue. You can keep the engine in the the level position and just tilt the manual transmission. Just can't remember if the tilt puts the shifter toward the driver or away. The biggest issue is locating the somewhat rare GM flywheel. They do show up occasionally. There are some resurfaced ones on ebay for around $750. Not an insane price. They are just rare. That is an interesting video. He is not correct about the model years. GM only used that odd NV4500 in '93-94. '95 would be the same case housing as a Dodge. As he shows, the early unit can be modified to fit the Dodge Cummins bellhousing, Just takes a bit of work and some machining. Not a pure bolt on like the '95 up transmissions. Probably wouldn't cost a fortune to have a machine shop modify the Dodge bearing retainer if you don't have access to a lathe. Slotting the holes could be done on a drill press. Did he mention about the bottom bolts? I may have missed it. Looked like the bellhousing had some colored paint where new bolt holes has been placed. A matter of centering the holes in the correct spot and boring and tapping them. I'm sure he's not the first guy to adapt that transmission to Dodge parts. Might be a bit of a challenge to find a cheap Dodge NV4500 bellhousing. About all you find on ebay are in the $400 range, new or used. You can find lots of the adapter plates for the engine but for some reason the transmission bellhousings seem to be scarce. That route has some advantage as you'd have a larger clutch than the GM if some more serious power mods ever came into play. You'd probably also need to use the Dodge slave setup for the clutch as well.
 
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