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Yeah, I know the model differences. I was just pointing out general differences for 77 to look for. Here is a brochure of the CURRENT vocational models being made by Allison. This list is not complete, as it doesn't include previous, now-discontinued models (i.e. the 5 speed versions of the 1000/2000 series):

https://allisontransmission.com/docs/default-source/marketing-materials/vocational-model-guide.pdf?sfvrsn=1bf83f1d_19

It's interesting the wide variation of GVWR/GCWR available in that Freightliner M2 106 chassis. As an Allison 1000 series is an option, that means the truck comes in at a GVW of 19,500 and GCW or 30,000. They advertise the Allison 3000 series as an option, most likely only with the Cummins L9, although possibly with the Detroit DD8 as well, and that would allow the M2's maximum 66,000lb GVW configuration. So, until he looks at that truck there is no telling what it may have for a transmission.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Max,

Just today I completed reading the complete Allison info thread and was wondering about a few things. Really helpful info over there, your contribution is amazing and the other members too.

I'll be going to the junkyard this Saturday and wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything..

I'll be looking out for the Allison that came in the 8100 GM pickup trucks first before checking out the Freightliner I mentioned before. We did get a lot of 8100 engines here, but unfortunately most of them were in the Suburbans (I'm sure the Allison only came in the pickup trucks, but I'll look in the SUVs anyway since I'll be there).

If I happened to find one, what should I get besides the transmission? I'll definitely try to get the harnesses and TCM, am I missing something else?

If I didn't find the 8100 Allisons, and went for the Freightliner (or any other similar truck), should I get the harness and TCM too?

I was looking more into other potential donors for the transmission and I think I might run into the Chevy Kodiak / GMC Topkick.. I've read they came with the Allison too (1000 and 2000 series). Should this be a good place to pick one up from or should I not bother since they have the Duramax engines and therefore the controller for those engines? I'm thinking of buying the standalone controller from transmissiontuner. com since a lot of members had good things to say about Jason and his services and expertise.

Another thing, Is the Allison 1000, 2000, 2400 series the same in terms of aftermarket support? For example, if I bought a 2400 series and wanted to upgrade the internals later with aftermarket parts, would parts be swappable or would they need to be custom made?

I know it's difficult to list parts because every swap is different.. My engine is the first gen Cummins (12v, non intercooled, VE pump).. I'll add an intercooler and do a P Pump swap (but the pump swap will be a bit further down the road). I'll run it with the VE pump for a while.

Thanks in advance, you've really changed my mind about going for the Allison rather than invest in something inferior.

Thanks again for your patience with my rookie questions
 

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Max,

Just today I completed reading the complete Allison info thread and was wondering about a few things. Really helpful info over there, your contribution is amazing and the other members too.

I'll be going to the junkyard this Saturday and wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything..

I'll be looking out for the Allison that came in the 8100 GM pickup trucks first before checking out the Freightliner I mentioned before. We did get a lot of 8100 engines here, but unfortunately most of them were in the Suburbans (I'm sure the Allison only came in the pickup trucks, but I'll look in the SUVs anyway since I'll be there).
The Suburbans equipped with the 8.1L used the 4L85E, not the Allison. The 8.1/Allison combination was only available in the 2001-2006 Silverado and Sierra 2500HD and 3500HD pickups and a few medium duty truck models (i.e. Kodiak and Top Kick). You will likely have more luck finding one out of a Duramax truck, but again they were only used in the HD pickups and MD trucks. The Express vans with the Duramax used a 4L85E behind a derated engine. If you want to run the 8.1L calibration you will need a 2009-earlier Allison and a 2006 TCM. Of course, the 2005 and earlier will be 5 speeds while the 2006-up will be 6 speeds.

If I happened to find one, what should I get besides the transmission? I'll definitely try to get the harnesses and TCM, am I missing something else?

If I didn't find the 8100 Allisons, and went for the Freightliner (or any other similar truck), should I get the harness and TCM too?
ALWAYS get the wiring harness and TCM if available.

I was looking more into other potential donors for the transmission and I think I might run into the Chevy Kodiak / GMC Topkick.. I've read they came with the Allison too (1000 and 2000 series). Should this be a good place to pick one up from or should I not bother since they have the Duramax engines and therefore the controller for those engines?
The TCM can be reflashed to an 8.1L calibration as long as it is a 2006-earlier unit.

I'm thinking of buying the standalone controller from transmissiontuner. com since a lot of members had good things to say about Jason and his services and expertise.
I don't know anything about his stuff since I roll my own (and have something in the works that will be far ahead of the typical 8.1 or MD swaps). Unless you have the expertise to do so, you will have to use his unit or have someone else configure the harness and TCM for your needs. Most people find this kind of thing to be very daunting, so buying a ready-to-go controller setup is often the best option.

Another thing, Is the Allison 1000, 2000, 2400 series the same in terms of aftermarket support? For example, if I bought a 2400 series and wanted to upgrade the internals later with aftermarket parts, would parts be swappable or would they need to be custom made?
The 1000 and 2000 series have the exact same hard parts (except for the rear planetary assembly and sun gear on wide ratio models) and clutches. There are differences between the 2005 and earlier 5 speeds and the 2006-2009 6 speeds, however. The gearsets of the 2001-2005 models have a shallower helix angle vs the 2006-up 6 speeds. This was supposedly done for noise; there is no strength advantage to either one. You cannot mix and match parts from the two geartrains, but you can swap the entire gearset from one to the other since the cases are identical. 5 speeds also have a different input drum assembly vs the 6 speeds. The 5 speed drum's pistons apply the clutches off center, vs the 6 speeds that apply on center (which is better for even clutch wear). The 5 speeds also have a slightly more complex apply piston configuration with an extra "balance" piston, whereas the 6 speed simplified the arrangement by deleting the balance piston. Although the drums are different, they use identical input shafts. From 2010-onward. the GM-manufactured Allison LCT1000 used in GM's pickups may have diverged from the Allison-manufactured 1000/2000 series. GM went to a full variable line pressure valve body and pump, and they changed the input, intermediate, and 4WD output shafts. I know the 4WD output shaft was changed to a larger spline count (34 spline, IIRC). I'm not sure about the input and intermediate shafts as they look identical in pics. Larger diameter and more splines, perhaps? It didn't seem so in the pics, but then again it was hard to tell.

Another big unknown on the 2010-up GM Allisons is whether the Allison-made SAE #3 bellhousing will work on them, given possible changes made for variable line pressure operation. I am currently researching all of these items and I will fill in the blanks in this thread when I find out.

I know it's difficult to list parts because every swap is different.. My engine is the first gen Cummins (12v, non intercooled, VE pump).. I'll add an intercooler and do a P Pump swap (but the pump swap will be a bit further down the road). I'll run it with the VE pump for a while.
Most guys end up keeping the VE pump. The only real good reason to do a P-pump swap is if you want to make big power, and if that is the case you are going to need big money to keep the trans alive. I always tell guys to be realistic with their power goals. My engine is around 250HP 750lb-ft and it hauls butt quite nicely. It's amazing how gobs of low end torque can get a vehicle moving, even if the actual HP number is fairly modest.

Thanks in advance, you've really changed my mind about going for the Allison rather than invest in something inferior.

Thanks again for your patience with my rookie questions
No problem. Good luck with your search. (y)
 

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Max, I believe he's been saying he wants power in the 400-500 HP range. As we both know, that's a hell of lot of power and it will produce some extreme torque that can have destructive effects. Unless the program is modified, the Allison 1000 and 2000 will have a hard life at that power level. Guys running the Duramax with the power turned up have had problems with the 1000 needing some upgrades. Will be some serious questions on U joints and differentials at that power level.
 

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Most Cummins engines have a roughly 1:2 HP/tq ratio. So, a 400HP engine makes around 800lb-ft, and at 500HP you're around 1000lb-ft. Some get to a 1:2.3 or even 1:2.4 or 1:2.5 ratio, so the torque on a 400HP build could be as high as 1000lb-ft, and as high as 1250lb-ft from a 500HP build. My engine is about 1:3, which is uncommon for a Cummins and more typical for a Caterpillar, but it's not the engine itself that makes the difference but rather the fueling curve and having enough air available. As it is, I'm hazing really good at that torque level. If I were tuned for clean exhaust at full throttle torque peak I would be back into that 1:2.4 or 1:2.5 arena that is more typical for lower HP Cummins engines. In other words, I'm cheating :)

So, yeah, he will need upgrades. Definitely gonna need to run the full Alto packs, the Transgo kit, and a solid dual or even a triple disk converter. In other words, a full Suncoast-type build. The Allison has pretty beefy shafts compared to other transmissions like the 47/48RE or 4L80E, so they should be OK as long as he's not sled pulling or doing full boost launches. The biggest issue is trying to keep shift energy down by speeding up the shifts. This inevitably leads to 3-4 shift tie-ups which can tear up the C2 clutch hub and P2 planetary splines. This ends up being one of the biggest limitations at high HP levels. The solution on a Duramax is simple: increase defuel during shifts. The clutches can hold a ton of torque once locked, and shafts and other parts can tolerate a lot of torque if not shock loaded all the time. With aggressive defueling, shifts can be slowed considerably (were talking tens or hundreds of milliseconds) while putting less energy into the clutches and not stressing the hard parts. Drag racers and sled pullers don't want to do this because too much defuel drops boost and increases ET's in drag racing and can cause you to lose the pull in sled pulling. For street heroes it's much less of a problem. Unfortunately, 12V Cummins, being mechanically controlled, have no way to defuel. I have a solution for being able to electronically defuel a mechanically injected engine, but it's still under development. For now, he will simply need to limit the HP and torque to levels that won't burn clutches or tear up splines. At those levels he also won't need t worry about upgraded shafts.

He also hasn't mentioned whether he has a driver drop or pass. drop front diff. This matters, because there are more HD options available for driver drop cases.

The diffs will be OK. He should run at least 1410 u-joints, and I would recommend 1480 on the rear. As I mentioned before, he won't have any problems with the 14b rear. The old W200 chassis isn't going to be able to tow or haul nearly as much weight as a modern 3/4 ton chassis, so the 14b will be fine even if he wants to occasionally tow within the truck's chassis/frame limit. If we wants to tow a lot, then the 11-½" axle may be a good upgrade. It's not really any stronger than the 10-½" 14b, but the bigger ring and pinion allow more power to be put through the gears on a continuous basis without the metal at the tooth contact surfaces exceeding the 350°F surface temp limit. OTOH, Ford continued to use a 10-½" ring and pinion in their Sterling axles after GM and Dodge had gone to the 11-½" AAM in their diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, and despite having similar HP and tq and GCWR as their rivals they had no issues with R&P failures, so I'm not convinced the 11-½" would be needed even if towing within the truck's limit continuously. Biggest thing with any axle is to monitor fluid temp if it's a concern, and keep it under 230°F.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
I went to the junkyard to see the Freightliner but was told that it was already spoken for. Anyways, I took a look around and found a number of International 4300 DT466 Sweeper. I'm not sure which years they were, but I'm guessing between 2001 and 2013 maybe, they were all automatics.

Since I didn't have any phone signal there, all I could do is take pics and look for specs afterwards, which I did. Turns out those International trucks that were equipped with the automatics were all Allison. However, it could be either the 1000, 2000, 2400 or the 3060MD/3560MD. They're all 5 speeds.

I called the guy later and told him to go under the trucks and pic the ID tags. He said he’ll do and to make up for messing up the first transmission sale, he’ll sell me the transmission for next to nothing (if it turned out to be the right one).

My question is, if it happened to be the 1000 or the 2000 or even the 2400, are they the ones I'm looking for (apart from the 3000 series of course)?

ALWAYS get the wiring harness and TCM if available.
I’ll definitely take the TCM and wiring harness based on your recommendation Max, even if ended up buying a standalone controller.

The Suburbans equipped with the 8.1L used the 4L85E, not the Allison. The 8.1/Allison combination was only available in the 2001-2006 Silverado and Sierra 2500HD and 3500HD pickups and a few medium duty truck models (i.e. Kodiak and Top Kick). You will likely have more luck finding one out of a Duramax truck, but again they were only used in the HD pickups and MD trucks. The Express vans with the Duramax used a 4L85E behind a derated engine. If you want to run the 8.1L calibration you will need a 2009-earlier Allison and a 2006 TCM. Of course, the 2005 and earlier will be 5 speeds while the 2006-up will be 6 speeds.
The TCM can be reflashed to an 8.1L calibration as long as it is a 2006-earlier unit.
I later went looking for the 8100 but all I could find were the Suburbans, no pickups. So, I gave up that option. The Top Kicks and Kodiaks I found were all equipped with manuals, so they weren’t an option.

I don't know anything about his stuff since I roll my own (and have something in the works that will be far ahead of the typical 8.1 or MD swaps). Unless you have the expertise to do so, you will have to use his unit or have someone else configure the harness and TCM for your needs. Most people find this kind of thing to be very daunting, so buying a ready-to-go controller setup is often the best option.
Unfortunately, I have 0 experience when it comes to electrical systems and especially wiring harnesses.


The 1000 and 2000 series have the exact same hard parts (except for the rear planetary assembly and sun gear on wide ratio models) and clutches. There are differences between the 2005 and earlier 5 speeds and the 2006-2009 6 speeds, however. The gearsets of the 2001-2005 models have a shallower helix angle vs the 2006-up 6 speeds. This was supposedly done for noise; there is no strength advantage to either one. You cannot mix and match parts from the two geartrains, but you can swap the entire gearset from one to the other since the cases are identical. 5 speeds also have a different input drum assembly vs the 6 speeds. The 5 speed drum's pistons apply the clutches off center, vs the 6 speeds that apply on center (which is better for even clutch wear). The 5 speeds also have a slightly more complex apply piston configuration with an extra "balance" piston, whereas the 6 speed simplified the arrangement by deleting the balance piston. Although the drums are different, they use identical input shafts.
Thanks for the clarification. I was concerned that if anything happened to the internals of ‘my’ transmission, I could swap out the internals without having to worry about model-specific components.

Most guys end up keeping the VE pump. The only real good reason to do a P-pump swap is if you want to make big power, and if that is the case you are going to need big money to keep the trans alive. I always tell guys to be realistic with their power goals. My engine is around 250HP 750lb-ft and it hauls butt quite nicely. It's amazing how gobs of low end torque can get a vehicle moving, even if the actual HP number is fairly modest.
To be honest, I haven’t really driven the tug truck much before the engine overhaul so I’m not sure how it would feel in the much lighter 77 cab.
The plan is to drive the truck as it is and gradually increase the power while maintaining the VE pump until I feel I want more power. I know it will cost me a lot to upgrade the whole drivetrain just so that nothing breaks. I might stick with VE if it feels nice.

No problem. Good luck with your search.
Thanks again Max
DSC_1171.JPG
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Max, I believe he's been saying he wants power in the 400-500 HP range. As we both know, that's a hell of lot of power and it will produce some extreme torque that can have destructive effects. Unless the program is modified, the Allison 1000 and 2000 will have a hard life at that power level. Guys running the Duramax with the power turned up have had problems with the 1000 needing some upgrades. Will be some serious questions on U joints and differentials at that power level.
I'm aware it's a lot of power at that level (especially the torque). The truck will be mainly driven on the streets and the occasional launch here and there, but it won't be seeing any racing.
The 500 HP is just a number, it's not something I'm obsessed about achieving for bragging rights, it's just a basic target.
Having never driven diesel trucks before (diesel anything in fact), I'm not sure I'll look for more power over the stock (+ basic bolt on mods). I just need to drive it properly first before deciding to look for more power.
 

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Just a general comment. Both the Dodge airport tug and the IH street sweeper were designed to move at walking speeds. Both will be "specification" vehicles (Translation: Designed with the lightest (i.e. cheapest) components to bring the cost down to a competitive bid). And the rear axle ratios will be wrong for highway speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Just a general comment. Both the Dodge airport tug and the IH street sweeper were designed to move at walking speeds. Both will be "specification" vehicles (Translation: Designed with the lightest (i.e. cheapest) components to bring the cost down to a competitive bid). And the rear axle ratios will be wrong for highway speeds.
Hi Russ,
The airport tug has a Dana 70 in the rear with a 7.16 gear ratio! So yeah, it's not ideal to say the least.
It's already been swapped out for a GM 14 bolt with 4.10 gears so it should drive decently.
As for the street sweeper, I'm only looking for the transmission (the Allison) to manage the expected bump in torque from the 5.9 and the extra gears.
Worst case scenario, I'll at least have the Allison housing which I can later have rebuilt with better internals.
The Tf727 that came in the tug truck won't do the engine (or itself) any good at highway speeds.
 

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I went to the junkyard to see the Freightliner but was told that it was already spoken for. Anyways, I took a look around and found a number of International 4300 DT466 Sweeper. I'm not sure which years they were, but I'm guessing between 2001 and 2013 maybe, they were all automatics.

Since I didn't have any phone signal there, all I could do is take pics and look for specs afterwards, which I did. Turns out those International trucks that were equipped with the automatics were all Allison. However, it could be either the 1000, 2000, 2400 or the 3060MD/3560MD. They're all 5 speeds.
Unless the truck is a pre-2000, units with the 3000 series will be 3000RDS, not a 3xxxMD. If it has a 1000/2000 series unit it will most likely be a 2400 series with a wide ratio gearset and no park pawl. The 5 speeds had a bit lower factory ratings vs the later 6 speed, so I'm going off memory here since I can't find a vocational brochure from back then. That said, if the engine has 300HP or less and 520lb-ft torque or less, is a 5 speed, and the sweeper has a GVWR of 33k or less (or perhaps 30k or less), than it will almost certainly have a 2400 series 5 speed. These are general guidelines. As a rule, even though the DT466 can make well over 300HP and over 600lb-ft torque, they are generally detuned for sweeper operation. If the engine is within the power ratings or a 1000/2000 series and the GVWR is also within the ratings of a 1000/2000, then that is what they will spec. 3000 series are MUCH more expensive, so they aren't going to specify it if it isn't required. I've driven a few International 4300's with the DT466's and 33k GCWR, and they all had 2400's in them.

I called the guy later and told him to go under the trucks and pic the ID tags. He said he’ll do and to make up for messing up the first transmission sale, he’ll sell me the transmission for next to nothing (if it turned out to be the right one).

My question is, if it happened to be the 1000 or the 2000 or even the 2400, are they the ones I'm looking for (apart from the 3000 series of course)?
As I mentioned, it is likely to not have a park pawl. Check the shifter to see if it has a "Park" position. Being a RWD truck it won't have a 4WD tailhousing, although one can be swapped in easily enough if you can source it. I'm also not sure if the DT466's have an SAE #3 or #2 flywheel housing, so that would definitely be something to check. Being a bigger engine, it may very well be SAE #2, which is just too large to fit in your Dodge without massive firewall surgery. The #3 is going to be a tight enough fit as it is.

I’ll definitely take the TCM and wiring harness based on your recommendation Max, even if ended up buying a standalone controller.
All "stand alone" controllers still use the Allison TCM. Even if a new Ally TCM is supplied with the stand-alone kit, they may still want a core returned.

I later went looking for the 8100 but all I could find were the Suburbans, no pickups. So, I gave up that option. The Top Kicks and Kodiaks I found were all equipped with manuals, so they weren’t an option.
Unfortunately, I have 0 experience when it comes to electrical systems and especially wiring harnesses.
Most guys don't. Nothing wrong with that. I already have a lot of interest in my current project because it won't require a medium duty TCM calibration, won't have the limitations of the 8.1L method (although it will work fine with an 8.1L calibration with no GMLAN), won't need a BCM, and will have the capability of defueling a mechanically injected engine. In other words, it will work exactly like an Allison in a Silverado Duramax pickup. It will have tap shift, tow-haul, and 4WD modes, and can be programmed to shift like a DMax pickup, like a MD truck, or anything in between. I also plan to add a manual 1st gear converter lock if the valve body hydraulics will allow it (no 1000/2000 cal allows 1st gear lockup), which will be great for off-road crawling. Eventually, I will also allow it to work with the Allison 1000/2000 console shifter as well. Like other stand-alone controllers it will use the OE Allison TCM, but it will have full integration over the GMLAN bus. I'm working out the software at the moment. This is an outgrowth of my ECM project to control the HE351VE turbo and electronically modulate fueling on the P-pump (or VE pump). The HE351VE uses J1939 CAN, but since the ARM-based MCU I am using has twin CAN transceivers I can run one at 250kbps J1939 and the other at 500kbps GMLAN.

Thanks for the clarification. I was concerned that if anything happened to the internals of ‘my’ transmission, I could swap out the internals without having to worry about model-specific components.
Well, like I said, as long as you use a 2001-2009 GM-made LCT1000 or any year Allison-manufactured 1000/2000 series you should have no problem swapping internals with any other transmissions matching those specifications. The 2010-up GM-made LCT1000's may have diverged from the Allison-made units. I will know next week whether than is the case. The big difference on these transmissions is full variable line pressure, which is a change GM made in 2010. I'm not sure if Allison followed suit, or even developed that mod. I also know there were changes in shafts, once in 2010 (I believe only in GM-made units) and again in the 2017-up GM-made units used behind the 445HP 910lb-ft L5P Duramax.


To be honest, I haven’t really driven the tug truck much before the engine overhaul so I’m not sure how it would feel in the much lighter 77 cab.
The plan is to drive the truck as it is and gradually increase the power while maintaining the VE pump until I feel I want more power. I know it will cost me a lot to upgrade the whole drivetrain just so that nothing breaks. I might stick with VE if it feels nice.
I think if you mod the VE with a upgraded fuel pin, adjustment of the smoke screw, and a 3200RPM gov spring, and combine it with a better turbo and an intercooler, you will be very surprised.


Thanks again Max
You're welcome :)


I'm aware it's a lot of power at that level (especially the torque). The truck will be mainly driven on the streets and the occasional launch here and there, but it won't be seeing any racing.
The 500 HP is just a number, it's not something I'm obsessed about achieving for bragging rights, it's just a basic target.
Having never driven diesel trucks before (diesel anything in fact), I'm not sure I'll look for more power over the stock (+ basic bolt on mods). I just need to drive it properly first before deciding to look for more power.
Diesel power feels different due to the comparatively massive low end torque and limited RPM range. Like I said earlier, my truck is only about 250HP, but it flat moves if I stand on it. More power would be fun, but it's already fun with the current power level. Whats more, Im not so worried about breaking parts and the engine should still live a very long time. High powered engines that get used at high power routinely won't live as long. Just something to keep in mind. Like I mentioned above, do the "standard" mods on the VE-pumped engine and I think you will be very surprised and happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Unless the truck is a pre-2000, units with the 3000 series will be 3000RDS, not a 3xxxMD. If it has a 1000/2000 series unit it will most likely be a 2400 series with a wide ratio gearset and no park pawl. The 5 speeds had a bit lower factory ratings vs the later 6 speed, so I'm going off memory here since I can't find a vocational brochure from back then. That said, if the engine has 300HP or less and 520lb-ft torque or less, is a 5 speed, and the sweeper has a GVWR of 33k or less (or perhaps 30k or less), than it will almost certainly have a 2400 series 5 speed. These are general guidelines. As a rule, even though the DT466 can make well over 300HP and over 600lb-ft torque, they are generally detuned for sweeper operation. If the engine is within the power ratings or a 1000/2000 series and the GVWR is also within the ratings of a 1000/2000, then that is what they will spec. 3000 series are MUCH more expensive, so they aren't going to specify it if it isn't required. I've driven a few International 4300's with the DT466's and 33k GCWR, and they all had 2400's in them.
Unfortunately he sent back pics of the ID tag, turns out the Alliosn that was originally in it was swapped out for another older Allison MT653.

After reading about it online, I'm convinced it won't be suitable for what I'm expecting out of the truck, besides the size issues of course (SAE #2).

All "stand alone" controllers still use the Allison TCM. Even if a new Ally TCM is supplied with the stand-alone kit, they may still want a core returned.
The guy said he'll contact a few junkyard owners and tell them what to look for, now that he clearly understood what I'm after. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but I'm not expecting anything at this point.
I told him to mention the TCM and harness to the other guys as it is important to include in the sale.

Most guys don't. Nothing wrong with that. I already have a lot of interest in my current project because it won't require a medium duty TCM calibration, won't have the limitations of the 8.1L method (although it will work fine with an 8.1L calibration with no GMLAN), won't need a BCM, and will have the capability of defueling a mechanically injected engine. In other words, it will work exactly like an Allison in a Silverado Duramax pickup. It will have tap shift, tow-haul, and 4WD modes, and can be programmed to shift like a DMax pickup, like a MD truck, or anything in between. I also plan to add a manual 1st gear converter lock if the valve body hydraulics will allow it (no 1000/2000 cal allows 1st gear lockup), which will be great for off-road crawling. Eventually, I will also allow it to work with the Allison 1000/2000 console shifter as well. Like other stand-alone controllers it will use the OE Allison TCM, but it will have full integration over the GMLAN bus. I'm working out the software at the moment. This is an outgrowth of my ECM project to control the HE351VE turbo and electronically modulate fueling on the P-pump (or VE pump). The HE351VE uses J1939 CAN, but since the ARM-based MCU I am using has twin CAN transceivers I can run one at 250kbps J1939 and the other at 500kbps GMLAN.
I really admire you're knowledge of this subject, and your enthusiasm. I'm sure you'll figure it out in no time.
Can't wait to see the end product.

Well, like I said, as long as you use a 2001-2009 GM-made LCT1000 or any year Allison-manufactured 1000/2000 series you should have no problem swapping internals with any other transmissions matching those specifications. The 2010-up GM-made LCT1000's may have diverged from the Allison-made units. I will know next week whether than is the case. The big difference on these transmissions is full variable line pressure, which is a change GM made in 2010. I'm not sure if Allison followed suit, or even developed that mod. I also know there were changes in shafts, once in 2010 (I believe only in GM-made units) and again in the 2017-up GM-made units used behind the 445HP 910lb-ft L5P Duramax.
If I happen to come across a GM Allison unit, it will most likely be a 2009 or earlier model. So I don't think I'll have much of a problem in that area. I'll be keeping what you said in mind though.
I told the junkyard owner to also look for the 8.1L GM pickup trucks too since I'm running low on options.


I think if you mod the VE with a upgraded fuel pin, adjustment of the smoke screw, and a 3200RPM gov spring, and combine it with a better turbo and an intercooler, you will be very surprised.

Diesel power feels different due to the comparatively massive low end torque and limited RPM range. Like I said earlier, my truck is only about 250HP, but it flat moves if I stand on it. More power would be fun, but it's already fun with the current power level. Whats more, Im not so worried about breaking parts and the engine should still live a very long time. High powered engines that get used at high power routinely won't live as long. Just something to keep in mind. Like I mentioned above, do the "standard" mods on the VE-pumped engine and I think you will be very surprised and happy.
Those are pretty much the mods I'm looking to do once I get everything back in the truck and running.
Not having any experience in diesel engines, to my ears 250 HP sounds a bit low in comparison to say a 400 hp gas/petrol powered car/truck. I'm sure I'll be amazed by the amount of torque diesel engines make.
 

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After a lot of research, I managed to track down a 6 speed Allison 1000 from what I believe was a 2007 6.6 Duramax. The trans itself is July 2007 build. It's a 2 wheel drive trans but that will have to do for now, given the circumstances. It's missing the harness (it shouldn't be hard to buy one online?). I'm not sure about the TCM if it's there or not, but would it be a problem if I bought the trans without it? I don't think I'll ever reflash the stock TCM myself or even find someone who would do it without messing things up first. From my understanding I can buy an aftermarket standalone controller, that would come pre-flashed, am I m

My question is, would I have any issues fitting this specific trans to my Cummins (It's an 89 12 valve non-intercooled, intercooler will be added later)?

And what parts would I also need to make the swap. I know this may have been asked a few time before but I can't seem to make a definitive list of parts that I will need to make the swap. Other than the trans adapter and necessary flexplate/bolts, what else would I need (TCM, wiring harness,...etc)? What about throttle input for the trans?

The engine and trans are going into a 1978 Dodge truck, so there shouldn't be any major electrical issues, everything is pretty much mechanical, so I shouldn't have to hack into the wiring harness to make it work with an ECU/ECM.

Any input would be appreciated, I'm about to pull the trigger on the trans but I need to make sure I have everything else to make the swap go as trouble-free as possible.

Excuse the low quality pics, I was sent them by the guy who's selling. I'll go see it in person if it's the the right transmission.
 

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It probably would be a cleaner and less expensive project if the proper Dodge automatic trans. that come on that engine/truck combination were used.

Ed in CO
 

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Discussion Starter #34
It probably would be a cleaner and less expensive project if the proper Dodge automatic trans. that come on that engine/truck combination were used.

Ed in CO
Thanks Ed, but that's not what I asked. Besides, the trans that came in that truck was the tf727 which is only a 3 speed with no lockup, it's far from good in this application.
 

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Being on the other side of the world does put you at a disadvantage. You have a 2wd 6 speed Allison 1000 with no control module or wiring. OK. First issue is mating it to your engine. First option would be install an SAE3 bellhousing onto the 1000 and use Cummins SAE3 engine adapter parts. The 1000 was commonly used behind some of the Cummins ISBe 4 cylinders and have seen a few on 4bt's. Second option is get a custom adapter for the GM Allison to mate to your engine. A company here in the US named Destroked has all the parts. The block adapter plate is $795 which includes the bolts. The flex plate is $625. The starter for that setup is a Ford 6.0 diesel type that they sell for $179. I assume you have the torque converter. This get your transmission mated to the engine. They also have the stand alone control unit for the 6 speed. That's $1599. Ouch. There may be some sensors you'll need to attach to the engine and those may be included there. You'll need a shifter of some type. Not sure if your old Dodge unit will work. Destroked could tell you. Now after spending around $3200 you have an operational transmission mated to the 6bt. If you wanted to change it to a 4wd unit, that can be done as well. You'd need to replace the transmission rear housing and output shaft. That process must be done with the transmission standing on its end. The updated 4x4 housing is in the $500-600 range and the output shaft around $650 for a high quality billet unit. Of course you'd need a GM transfer case to match up. God only know what the freight from the US would be. Got any friends in the military over there who could bring it in with a shipment? Here's a link to Destroked. Allison 6 Speed controller
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Being on the other side of the world does put you at a disadvantage. You have a 2wd 6 speed Allison 1000 with no control module or wiring. OK. First issue is mating it to your engine. First option would be install an SAE3 bellhousing onto the 1000 and use Cummins SAE3 engine adapter parts. The 1000 was commonly used behind some of the Cummins ISBe 4 cylinders and have seen a few on 4bt's. Second option is get a custom adapter for the GM Allison to mate to your engine. A company here in the US named Destroked has all the parts. The block adapter plate is $795 which includes the bolts. The flex plate is $625. The starter for that setup is a Ford 6.0 diesel type that they sell for $179. I assume you have the torque converter. This get your transmission mated to the engine. They also have the stand alone control unit for the 6 speed. That's $1599. Ouch. There may be some sensors you'll need to attach to the engine and those may be included there. You'll need a shifter of some type. Not sure if your old Dodge unit will work. Destroked could tell you. Now after spending around $3200 you have an operational transmission mated to the 6bt. If you wanted to change it to a 4wd unit, that can be done as well. You'd need to replace the transmission rear housing and output shaft. That process must be done with the transmission standing on its end. The updated 4x4 housing is in the $500-600 range and the output shaft around $650 for a high quality billet unit. Of course you'd need a GM transfer case to match up. God only know what the freight from the US would be. Got any friends in the military over there who could bring it in with a shipment? Here's a link to Destroked. Allison 6 Speed controller

Thanks for info Char1355,
Seeing as the trans I mentioned doesn't come with the bellhousing, I was thinking of going aftermarket from the beginning, that's of course including buying the flexplate, bolts and Ford starter. As for the standalone controller, I was looking into getting the Transmissiontuner kit, it's still not cheap at $1100 but it's cheaper than the Destroked kit and I've read good things about them on this forum. Not sure if you'd advise me to go this route or not.
I'm mostly worried about the sensors, as I know it'll be the thing that will really slow down the project. If there are part numbers and instructions on what to do, it shouldn't be a problem. Do you happen to have part numbers?
If that's literally what it'll take to make the transmission work properly with my engine, without the need to custom fabricate parts (other than a cross member), then I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and buy the things.
I'll forget about the 4 wheel drive for now, I just want the truck to move under its own power for now.
Shipping won't be cheap, but I'll see if someone is willing to share a container with me.
Am I missing something? I apologize if I'm asking the same questions, but I just want to make sure I have everything before buying the transmission.
Thanks again
 

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I'm a bit puzzled. The transmission in your photo does have the bellhousing. It's the GM bolt pattern. Was that $1100 controller for the 6 speed? The Destroked unit is specifically for the 6 speed. The state theirs is the only one like it so I don't know. I have some parts from Destroked and although they aren't cheap, their machine work is first rate. On their setup you'd need the adapter plate, flex plate, bolts, and starter. There may or may not be some minor grinding on the block skirt required. Nothing major, just needed on some of their adapter plate installations for starter clearance. I'd suggest you contact the companies with the controllers and let them tell you what all you'll need in addition to the controller. You're going to need to figure out a shifter. Pretty sure the old Dodge unit will be useless for the 1000. No idea on price but used truck models go in the $500-600 range. You may need to contact Allison to find out exactly which shifter you need. It will be a floor mounted unit. Some of the Allison shifters range over $2000 depending on model.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I'm a bit puzzled. The transmission in your photo does have the bellhousing. It's the GM bolt pattern. Was that $1100 controller for the 6 speed? The Destroked unit is specifically for the 6 speed. The state theirs is the only one like it so I don't know. I have some parts from Destroked and although they aren't cheap, their machine work is first rate. On their setup you'd need the adapter plate, flex plate, bolts, and starter. There may or may not be some minor grinding on the block skirt required. Nothing major, just needed on some of their adapter plate installations for starter clearance. I'd suggest you contact the companies with the controllers and let them tell you what all you'll need in addition to the controller. You're going to need to figure out a shifter. Pretty sure the old Dodge unit will be useless for the 1000. No idea on price but used truck models go in the $500-600 range. You may need to contact Allison to find out exactly which shifter you need. It will be a floor mounted unit. Some of the Allison shifters range over $2000 depending on model.
I have a video of the transmission, it's too big to post on here, otherwise it would have given you a better idea of what I'm dealing with. I'll try to send to you directly.

I was confused about the bellhousing, at first I thought it was there, but when you mentioned that I need to install an SAE3 bellhousing onto the 1000 and use Cummins SAE3 engine adapter parts, I thought maybe I'm missing something.. If it's there with the transmission in question, then it's good news, if it's not, then I don't suppose it will be a big problem.

The controller I mentioned is for a 6 speed Allison too. Looks like I'll end up contacting both companies to see what they could offer.

And now that you've mentioned it, looks like I'm running into another problem with the shifter.. I was thinking of using any suitable floor mounted shifter, I can do without the manual gear selection (if that's even an option).
Does the shifter NEED to be Allison specific?
 

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Yes, the shifter will be specific for an Allison. There are some aftermarket models possibly. The controls are electrical. If you could locate the SAE3 parts, that may be cheaper than the Destroked adapter setup. You'd need the SAE3 engine block adapter, flex plate assembly, and starter for a Cummins 6bt. Then you'd need the SAE3 bellhousing for the transmission which is an Allison part. The 1000 and 2000 series transmissions both used that. If your Allison had come from the GM medium duty Kodiak line it would have had the SAE3. Don't know the part number for that housing, but if there are any GM medium duty truck dealers over there they could find it. The parts on the other side would all be Cummins.
 
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