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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
I suppose it’s time for update. Visited the machine shop 50 miles away. Block magnafluxed, .020 over not honed yet but was told cylinders would be 4.036 honed off the top of his head. Middle range of the specification so that it would not run tight. Knowing that spec and doing the chamfer strokes my confidence level!

He took the valves out noted good continuous lap on each, was impressed with Promaxx head quality. On closer inspection the head came with white stripe larger springs exhaust. Any need to change the intakes to the white stripe springs?

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He jokingly told me to ‘read less’ as I humbly am particular with sticking to specs on this going through. Seems like consensus Of non-forums /reading folks is to ‘run it!’ and not worry about it! Anyone else have a similar experience?

New pin bushings/pistons/bearings/rod bolts all from McBee. Subcontracted balancer said 4 cyl cranks don’t benefit but I read others here have benefitted from rotating assy balancing. So, I’m persisting and if it doesn’t need much or any at least it would be peace of mind.

Sorry no painted engine porn pix just a boring flywheel:

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Dodge flywheel #3920378 with the nipple and crappy roller bearing. I know there’s sold a stouter sealed roller bearing that needs flywheel nipple to be machined to accept bearing, which would cause bearing to have to recess further into the engine side of the flywheel/affect input shaft. I’ve read machine an adapter then bearing into the adapter. Anyone have links to this or a tip or should I just buy the new flywheel with bearing. Even new FW not sure if the bearing is at the right distance.

My apologize if this has been answered, I’m not finding it.

I figure I went through the trans well for maybe 150,000mi and I’ll put a decent clutch in for the same, the first to go out would be the chinsy FW roller bearing getting dry.

Cleaning/painting up other parts and doing my mandatory forum/factory manual reading/cross referencing. I realize you all are giving of your own time/expertise with no return. I will try to figure out a way to buy everyone a virtual beer. Thank you!
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Gentlemen, Engine back in the garage, slowly reassembling.

First first major overhaul after doing a top end fe390. Plasti-gauged main bearings and they were smaller side of spec. Crank turned smoothly, checked min and max ring gaps all fine. New rod bolts, followed torque+angle spec then double checked torque from shop manual.

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Replaced oil cooler valves, reusing oil cooler core. Rotating assy balanced. KDP. Mcbee HV oil pump. Assembly Rotates ‘freely’ but pistons drag a bit when going up and down. is this ok.

Timed tdc / loctite the timing pin using shop manual method. Loctite blue on all internal engine bolts, high tack sealant on all gaskets. New core plugs with loctite 277.

Put an indicator on and measured bellhousing for runout. Is this dodge bell housing and adapter plate shot or is there something that can be done to fix the runout? Offset pins?

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Looks like you're making progress. You had a question on the valve springs. Don't know what that company uses there. If you're planning an engine that may hit numbers over 3000 RPM or will have an exhaust brake, then you want the 60 lb over valve springs. You only have to do them on exhaust to prevent floating a valve but most install them on both valves. Not a major expense item. As far as engine assembly balancing, few go to that expense but every little bit helps. The 4bt is a vibrating little monster mainly due to its firing order. It does not have harmonics like the 6bt so a harmonic balancer like found on those engines does little good to tame it. There is a balancer for the 4bt that was mostly on marine engines. It does help by adding mass to the crank. We have a few members using those but most don't due to cost. Fluidampr company makes one identical to the original Cummins and it's not cheap either. Below is a photo of the stock Cummins unit. That thing weighs about 26 lbs. A bit of piston drag in the cylinders would be expected with new rings and honed cylinders. The clutch pilot bearing in the flywheel should always be a sealed type. Open type would be guaranteed to fail. As for runout in a bellhousing, not sure how accurate those creatures are.
 

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When you machine a flywheel for a sealed 16352RS ball bearing you remove the boss and make the pocket so the bearing sits flush with the crank bolt surface. This supports the end of the input shaft perfectly and puts the bearing surface in an area on a used input shaft that is usually still good.

Blue loctite is not normally used on rotating assembly parts. You would use engine oil or assembly lube on the threads and under the heads so the torque specs work out right.

6BT balancer smooths them out some. All 4 cylinders shake some, but the 4BT can get pretty bad. The added mass on the front of the crankshaft helps to smooth out the rotational accelerations of the front of the crankshaft at lower RPM's. When the crank turns smoother the gears clatter less, the pump timing bounces less, everything just kinda smooths out more.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
ST, Got it appreciate the tips. Bought the torque king bearing you're mentioning because they have instructions for the machine shop. I'll snap a pic if anyone's interested.

Used engine oil on main and rod bolts for torquing but blue loctite on stuff like timing case, oil pump, pickup tube, etc. Cleaning stuff off, i usually wirebrush the bolts/holes, brake clean, blow dry to give the loctite good adherance. New mcbee rod bolts appeard and felt to be the same as cummins taken off. Taking a chance on mcbee using alot of stuff from them. Bought the cummins head gasket to not take a chance. 'impressed' with the mcbee stuff, doesn't seem chinsy but then I don't have the background. I used reliableindustries.com as they had lots of stock options between pai, dcec, mcbee, cummins for good prices. Don't like paying shipping twice needing two items.

Going to run the 6bt balancer even though i hear it's not designed for 4bt. Hoping the balancing on all the rot assembly helps with vibration.

When you machine a flywheel for a sealed 16352RS ball bearing you remove the boss and make the pocket so the bearing sits flush with the crank bolt surface. This supports the end of the input shaft perfectly and puts the bearing surface in an area on a used input shaft that is usually still good.

Blue loctite is not normally used on rotating assembly parts. You would use engine oil or assembly lube on the threads and under the heads so the torque specs work out right.

6BT balancer smooths them out some. All 4 cylinders shake some, but the 4BT can get pretty bad. The added mass on the front of the crankshaft helps to smooth out the rotational accelerations of the front of the crankshaft at lower RPM's. When the crank turns smoother the gears clatter less, the pump timing bounces less, everything just kinda smooths out more.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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82 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
What VE pump should I run?

3200 gov spring, calibrated for 120-120cc/1000 shots
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
Gentlemen,
Head is torqued down, always nervous doing the+ 90 degrees, I puckered up / nothing bad happened. Oiled the New long short and medium bolts from mcbee, followed quickserv’s torque procedure as shop manual is just torque, no angle.

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valves set with .010 and .020 with slight resistance.

oil Line made up for ps/vac and powermaster dodge 5.9l starter. I have a pm starter on the fe390 and it works like a champ so hoping this’ll be comperable.
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Needing some manifold help. Sanden 7320 with mocked up bracket from Custom AC compressor Bracket
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Sanden makes a bolt up rear exit lines compressor head I could swap out to eliminate vertical exit lines.

Anyone recommend doing the high center manifold, or would a flange spacer work with this cut 6bt? Eggman918 would there be hood clearance for high center manifold?
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Thanks again for your tips and experience.
 

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‘97 F-250 4bt/ M5R2
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Looks like you’ve got things moving right along. I am impressed with the cleanliness of your work. Mounting the compressor high on the drivers’ side Worked well for me since the turbo side got cluttered quickly with all the plumbing.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Happy Fall Weather to Everyone! Trudging along to get things somewhat buttoned up before the next four winter months. Feels good to install these parts that have been laying around.

Used shims between gear box and bell housing to correct face runout. Stainless shims were 1/2" ID and 3/4" OD, hope that's stout enough at that juncture.

Ended up taking out the factory dowel bushings and drilling/reaming 4 new pins in the flanges between BH and Adapter plate. Wanted to avoid the expense of buying new and I like coaxing parts to work right. Pretty proud of myself I had the input shaft bore sweep aligned to about .0005" runout. Had a thread on that, thanks to all of you who chimed in on it!


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Stock 0090 dodge 5.9L clutch from SBC, special order for 1-3/8" input shaft on the disc. Things went together easily.

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I think there'll be room under the hood to run the high center mount manifold. Won't know forshore until next March. I've been looking at bump and dentside build pictures and it seems this will fit. This is all the easy stuff!

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BTDT interference. I now use the F600 cummins sanden ac pump. They kick to the 10:30 position.


This qsb/isb mount lowers the compressor about 3" but no alt mount(I went divorced v belt)
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Redheadbronco, thanks for the heads up. I saw your posts on the ac bracket thread. There’s a sanden md head I could swap on that has lines that go side/side out the back. What didn’t work when you tried it? Did you have to grind on an alternator or find a different one.
 

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I didnt like the tight radius bend ac lines so close to silicone hose from air cleaner. I put alt on dr side intake plenum mount on a v belt. Had several brand new alt bearing failures in under 18 months before getting a decent one. Being stranded and getting home in limp(let motor cool down, start, drive till hot, repeat) mode convinced me. Im lucky the optima held out for the starts.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Happy coldncrappie weather everyone!

A few things checked off the list...sorry for the long post.

Firstly, Finishing framing for, drywalling, making/installing cabinets and trim for neverending attic project. Have to keep my supporting spouse happy! Like to save $ reusing old wood and remove the nails and thickness plane down to good surface. I consider this a truck project because it frees up time when weather gets warmer. (y)

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Got AC bracket and ALT support brackets made. Changed the rear sanden compressor head to MD style, bolt on. Outlets won't interfere with turbo air intake.
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Drilled out water inlet/upper ALT mount for larger M10 bolts. Lower waterinlet upper bolt area had to cut a chunk off for alt clearance.

Does anyone know what the belt tensioner part # for where my hand is:
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Found an ok deal on a 3.55 78 d60 front, drilled hubs 39/64" for 9/16" studs. Rabbit hole #1: couldn't find any rotors in town that fit the 1/2 studs, all rotors were sloppy fit with 1/2" studs. Only rotor that fit dorman 610-278 studs properly were the carquest/advance auto rotor.
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Rabbit Hole #2: Up to this point I had diff shops set up differentials, beyond my skill and tooling. After technician at heavy truck shop said, "Here's your paintbrush and gear paint" I asked, did you use gear paint. So..........got me thinking, brought it home and sure enough no paint was used. Put paint on, loaded the carrier with welding gloves, spun the yoke, measured backlash with DI, took/printed pictures, went back and met with the manager.
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Pattern was not centered / backlash was .010 (spec is .004-.009). My argument was that I didn't pay to have a hotsy bath and have high quality customer supplied parts bolted on, without the final result of a properly centered gear pattern using gear paint (for the amount paid $$). 78 ford shop manual says "The correct (centered) tooth pattern is considered to be the final check on pinion depth and backlash adjustments."

Two older gentelmen said, "well that's what we've always done and we don't have customers coming back." I understand setting gears is a meticulous process.

So, I here I was the 43 year old persisting with two older men, and received a half off labor refund talking to their manager. With the refund I bought the clamshell carrier bearing puller and from now on, I'm doing differential work myself! (Entering Rabbit hole #3)
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Don't let differential work intimidate you. I did an 8.8 last year and it wasn't a big deal. I'm not a seasoned mechanic by any means. It's mainly just a lot of assembly and disassembly getting everything right. Sometimes it's better doing it yourself so you can be more picky since it's going under your own vehicle. That clamshell puller is a nice tool and I'm definitely picking one up before I do another axle.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Thanks Mauser48 for the encouragement, I need it! My OCD kicks in more often than not.

Levis, thanks for the tip. I know there's sold mock-up bearings $ but if you made some yourself, did you die-grind around the ID to make removal easier?

Thanks!
 

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Thanks Mauser48 for the encouragement, I need it! My OCD kicks in more often than not.

Levis, thanks for the tip. I know there's sold mock-up bearings $ but if you made some yourself, did you die-grind around the ID to make removal easier?

Thanks!
I have done it both ways and as long as the wait for them to be delivered is not an issue buying then already honed oversize on the ID is is the way to go as the markup over the cost of bearings is not too much...$.02
 
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I have only used old bearings- and of course check the pattern when you install with the new bearings
 

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I don't see what the problem is with a clamshell puller. They work great. Setup bearings can cause issues because they aren't the same size as the bearings you run. Diff bearings are not tight tolerance on their installed heights, they are not high precision bearings.
 

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1972 F250 4x4, 78 d44, 3.55, np205, 200hp 4bt nv4500 in progress
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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
The clamshell puller has seen some use! It must use the rollers to leverage inner race.

Snuggletough, I used normal timken carrier bearings, pressing on and pulling off, not using setup bearings.

I don't see what the problem is with a clamshell puller. They work great.
Tried ~30 different carrier shim settings and ~15 different inner pinion shim settings (!). Have got very fast at the operations of changing carrier/pinion shim settings and have them down to a routine. "learning experience"

Backlash ~.005" Comments/suggestions?


Drive side, seems a bit high. Pinion needs a bit closer to RG?

Coast side
 
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