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Discussion Starter #1
My Build is back in action.
After a good break of working and school I can finally get my build back on track. I decided to post this here again because even after all this time this forum continues to be a positive, informational forum with devoted followers.


The builds changed alot since my previous thread
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3094

The builds been changed to a 6BT with a auto or NV4500 although, If it comes to it the Clark transmission I found before might still work. Dana 60's frt and rear. After seeing the guy in england on youtube with the 6BT rover I had to get motivated. :)

Im wondering those of you on here that have done a Cummins swap in a landie could tell me a few things. How long did your driveshafts end up, did you go spring over when you did this swap, do you think I can shoehorn it into my SIII without going with a defender grille. If I have to I will go custom but I would really like to keep the inset grille. My eyeball tape measuring seemed it would fit but eyeballing and doing are totally different things. Also, how did you work your dash gauges. Im thinking of ripping the gauge pod out and making a aluminum one with aftermarket gauges figureing this would be eaiser then adapting the rover gauges.

I've toned the whole build down to focusing on the drivetrain swap and then working on all the other mods I'm planning.

Thanks,
Morgan

I will post a pic soon I realized that I only have pre-paint pics on my new laptop.
 

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Hello Morgan,

I'm just started a 6BT conversion in my 110. I'm using the engine from a DAF truck along with its ZF S5-42 gearbox. It's literally half way in at the moment as I have to cut a piece of the bulkhead (firewall) away to get the bell housing to fit
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Cutting the bulkhead should not be a issue, theres alot of space to work with there and I planned on totally modding the inside of the bulkhead as my dash was rusted from the inside out from years of the heater blowing moist air through it. I would love to see some pics. I really would like to keep the SIII look and if i have to push it back 6 inches or so i will probably do that route or make a custom defender grille and bonnet. Here are some before and after paint pics.

The one is after Stripping all the MoD Paint and the fresh coat of tan. As soon at this snow storm lets up I can get some pics of it currently.

I went with single stage paint figureing it would get trail wear and you can still see yourself in it after a good polish. I trimmed the truck out in a gunmetal looking paint around all the bits and bed rails and windsheild frame. Its a sharp looking truck now.
 

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Hey man, good to see you back at it. I'll try to answer a couple questions from my experience.

-How long did your driveshafts end up: My drive shafts are close to the same length front and rear, both are custom builds, I'm using a divorce mounted LT-230 that is almost miship between the two axles. The front shaft I custom ordered, the rear is a shortened Jeep XJ rear shaft. Sorry I can't remember the lengths. If you'd really like to know I can measure them.

-Did you go spring over when you did this swap: Yes, I went spring over at the same time, i just was not able to get the articulation i wanted otherwise. i sitll had to mod the oil pan to get some clearance for front axle up travel.

-Do you think I can shoehorn it into my SIII without going with a defender grille. If I have to I will go custom but I would really like to keep the inset grille. My eyeball tape measuring seemed it would fit but eyeballing and doing are totally different things: I think it will be tight but with some small bulkhead mods I think it should fit. Since you have a series III, you gain a bit of working room by not having the headlights to worrry about.

-Also, how did you work your dash gauges. Im thinking of ripping the gauge pod out and making a aluminum one with aftermarket gauges figureing this would be eaiser then adapting the rover gauges: That's still a work in progress for me. Right now I've got the minimum necessary, ie.. Oil press and water temp. I also have a working fuel gage but that's it. I still want to have a tach and exhaust temp, hopefully a speedometer at some point and an ammeter and/or volt meter.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good to see your still active in the forum slorocco. I think we need to get together and make a dash unit for these rovers that can accept aftermarket gauges. I read the buildup thread on your rover and it sounds like it turned out great. Are you in the MD Rovers club?

My only hold up now is waiting to get rid of some things to free up capital for my drivetrain. I have located all the parts just need to get this tow truck and sailboat sold or traded away. So for right now I need to get it inside again and start stripping the engine bay down for paint and sound proofing. Luckily the 2.25 is already out after I attributed to its death via backhoe dug mudhole. I guess thats why landrover has a fording plug on the frame. :D My best guess after pulling the oil pan off of it was that the previous owner swamped it in the pine barrens of NJ. The sump was full of sand where as the Delaware mud I was in was mostly clay and select.

Theres alot to do still until I can scrounge for the motor. All the parts I have gathered for the last few years could be put to use. I need to prep the fuel tanks, install my lift pump and filters, block heater, figure out if I want to go power steering, decide which axles Im going to use, and the list goes on.

Did you go to a hydraulic clutch or did you use mechanical linkage?
What radiator did you end up using?

Thanks again,
Morgan
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Back at it again

So its been about two years since my last build post. Hunting and scroungeing has netted me my one wrecker sold and a 6BT (Here)
Now for the build.... I have still not firmed up on exaclty what im useing besides the 6B which is why I could use some advice. I have spent the better part of the weekend building a engine stand and digging out my coversion parts that had been relegated to a shed for the last 2 years.
The bus has a Allison 545 slung off the back with I think a SAE 3 flywheel cover. I still have a SAE 2-3# flywheel cover and flywheel from the air compressor in my origional thread years ago here. I still have the clark 5 speed which I still would love to use but I will have to hunt up a clutch cover and adapt it to hydraulic clutch. So basically what do you all think, OD clark or allision 4 speed. The truck has 4.70 ring and pinions and 315/75/16 tires on it right now. What will a stock 6B turn at cruise for best fuel economy? Transfier case options are a 205 divorced or a rockwell divorced case.

I'me pretty shure at this point the motor will fit fine in the rover without moveing the series grille if I rework the firewall back and make a little doghouse for it. I really don't want to defender grille it becuase it will be the first one ive seen to retain the series grille and im not sinking 1500 bucks in a defender front clip.
One of my other concerns though is the radiator. I would spend the money on a new custom one but since everyone on the forum says these motors run cool im wondering if the stock copper rover radiator designed to cool the 4 cyl on the 130 degree african belt will be sufficent for the East coast. Well, the radiator and a electric fan.

The last question I have is for the toyota guys out there. I wanted a D60 front axle but a freind is willing to hook me up with a FJ40 disc brake axle. Will it take the cummins? Can I get a 4.7 ratio? Otherwise I might have to swap the rear too, which isnt a issue.

And Here is a picture of the rover in its current state, and my Jeep which i just painted...and I still have two more gallons of tan left.... Hmm the wifes 04 Grand might need paint.......

Thanks in advance, this forum has always been a excellent source of information if you look hard enough.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Got my motor started in the run up stand tonight. Found out I had a 24v starter which is cool, but after a few minutes it died on me and I checked the lift pump and it had lost prime. Primed it up again and cranked while pumping and it was trying to start. I didn't fool with it anymore becuase I was just happy to hear it run smooth. No thumps rattles or bangs. I would assume the lift pump might have died on me? I was running a hose down from the lift pump into a fuel can. Either way its small stuff. Now to clean the shop out some more to get the rover inside.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Its On!

Hah, I have been a busy little beaver since around thanksgiving, and winter break from school allowed me to make some extra money for the project. This is probably going to be the "official" starting post in my build thread. WARNING: IMPRACTICALITY FOLLOWS
Parts I have acquired:
6BT out of a 94 Thomas Built Bus, 60-80k on it. Bendix 501 compressor, P7100, all the other goodies. (I plan on keeping it stock possibly upgrading the turbo later)
SAE 2 flywheel housing, flywheel and starter off of the LeRoi Air compressor my boat anchor 4bt had on it.
RT-613 Transmission w/ 1-3/4 input and SAE 2 Clutch Cover.
NP205 Transfer case from mid 80's chevy w/SM465 (still have the 465 if I need to steal parts for a adapter
NP201 Transfer Case from a Mid 60's Dodge. Divorced, 10 bolt cover (will use to attempt to make the 205 divorced if need be)
Dana 60 Front Axle and Chevy 14 Bolt full float rear out of 80ish Chevy 1 ton Crew cab 454 3.73's, with springs which I might use. (need to figure if 454 springs will hold the cummins)
Dana 70 Single Tire rear axle 4.10's(Chevy)

Goals: Create a crazy rover, that is at home just about anywhere. Top Speed: 75 Max. Cruise 55-65 Top gear at 1800. Weight: not a concern. MPG: I would like to get 20, anything over that is cake.
As stated above, my plan is to more or less wrap the rover around my drive train. I "think" it will all fit, but the backup plan is a custom extended cab series III. The idea to keep my grill in the series III set in position is out the window. I'm going to make a custom grille and hood to cover all my bits up later on, combining some of the best ideas from here, IE Shutter stat grill. The goal is to also find a way to mount the NP205 right to the Road Ranger, a guy on one of the diesel sites has pics up of one adapted to the dodge transfer case but I think his shaft was actually two bits welded together. As it stands right now the rear drive shaft will be longer than a YJ with a SYE, but not by much, I figure use a double joint on one end and a long slip. Front shaft will be carried forward to a carrier bearing that bolts to the shaft that goes down to the dana 60.

As of right now I have 34 Inch tires. The plan is to stay direct with the road ranger and use the Dana rears with 3.54 Ring and pinions. Down the road I may switch to 36 inch tires. If I get in a rush I will put the 3.73's in and save up for the tires I want and then buy the R&P to match. Staying in the 34-36 inch tire range I think will give me options that will work good on the street and decent off road.

This is the progress I have made in the last couple of weeks:
Engine: Power wash, Install SAE 2 flywheel housing, --Note to others, when you know your going to change your Flywheel housing, and your cart uses the Nodal mounts to hold the engine up, make sure you make your cart big enough to accept either flywheel housing. I had to dangle the engine in the air while I fixed my cart.
Transmission: The shifter was broken off, so I need to pin and weld it back together, Grigg: I figured out my knob question, The P/N on the shifter says its for a 9531, so they must of swapped it. Good news is it has a re-builders tag on it, and looks brand new inside. Input shaft looks good too. Figuring out method of clutch engagement will be a step for down the road. I decided to go with the 13 speed to give me more options of gearing to suit all manner of terrain or weather conditions without going to a special transfer case.
Axles: The guy I got them from had them inside so the drums spin free. First good day I have they will get sandblasted and painted.
Rover: I decided for such a large fitment process it was best to strip it to the frame, blast it, paint it, and start with a clean slate. It actually only took 2 days of real time to take it down to just the firewall. The brits use a ton of fine thread quality fasteners that came apart pretty good. The issue was that they rarely use a captured nut or threaded object. Everything is nut and bolt with two washers and/or a lock washer. Perhaps they have Dr. Who assembling these things because some of the places one guy cant reach both sides at the same time. It was quicker to just grind them off and replace them later with stainless hardware then to fool with them. Overall the frame looks to be in good condition, no holes or rusted out spots.
While I am disassembling it I keep looking back at the steering system toying around with different ideas in my head. For those who have never seen one, rovers have a odd steering setup. The steering gear is mounted at the end of the column on the firewall, with a arm hanging down, this arm moves toward the front or the rear of the truck moving a rod that goes to a steering relay, that goes through the frame that acts like a Z bar that on the bottom side of the relay has the normal crossover style steering linkage. Its complicated but it offers two scenarios. One is ditch all of it and run a Scout II box The other is sideways mount a Saginaw box in place of the original steering gearbox and reuse all the rover linkage.
Here in the next couple of weeks I need to swap my tires onto the other rims, Install the axles, I'm keeping them full width and modifying the rover to accept them, there actually only about 2 inches off. After that its mocking things up to see ideas for motor mounts. I need to see if I can make a motor mount for the LH side of the motor that will incorporate the brackets that hold the compressor and Power steering pump on the side of the block. The nodal mounts on the flywheel housing sit too close to the sides of the firewall.

It just feels good to finally be making progress. The way I look at it now I have most, if not all of the components that need to be searched for. Best part is, between the engine, trans, axles, transfer cases, and other stuff that I have stashed away I have less then $4500 in all of it minus the rover itself. Of that 4500 Most of it was trades and I am basing that number off of what I paid for the things I traded. Current out of pocket expenses are a lot less.

So what do you guys think? Yea, its impractical but damn it sounds like a cool idea. Besides, once I saw 66Gaza's and Handbuilt's rover I had to do this, but with my own style. Thanks to all forum members who have put up with my questions over the years. I know I will have a lot more now but its going to be interesting. I have until April to get at least the rolling chassis done so we can get it in and out of the shop when our busy season hits so expect updates soon.
Last but not least folks, Some [email protected]!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Alright, progress update, I've got the landy stripped down to the frame and am in the process of installing the front dana 60 with the 47" 454 springs. I drew up the front frame in autocad, I don't have 3d modeling skills, and it looked like to keep the caster right, and the tire centered in the wheel well I needed to drop the front eye 2 inches and forward 5 inches. Made some aluminum mock up jigs and it looks good. For the back shackle I plan on moving the rear hole making the shackle angle from the chord of the spring at 90 degrees, drilling through the frame with a mag drill. The main issue I am having now is total driveline length. I'm estimating I am 6-8 inches short. I can push back the rear axle a bit if needed but right now it looks good in the spot its in. In the back i am using the rover springs with weld on mounts on the dana 70. nothing will be welded until I check with the body back on. I have a few routes to take. A: keep going and hope for the best B: toss the idea of the RR and go with a dodge NV4500 setup. Or C: Extend the frame from 109" wheel base to 127" (making it the same as a Defender 130), and either fab up a "extended cab", or make/buy the parts to make it like a rover High Capacity Pickup "HCPU" in rovespeak. This would enclose the cab like a normal pickup and have a separate bed. I could always fab up a cool aluminum bed.
I'm starting to wish though that I had a station wagon, as a extra row of seats would come in handy, unless I can put jump seats in the back with what ever I come up with.

What do you guys think? To stretch or not to stretch? Anyone on here have any experience with the High-Cap pickups or the 130 Defenders? Or know a source for Series Wagon\Pickup sheet metal in mid east?
 

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To stretch or not to stretch? Anyone on here have any experience with the High-Cap pickups or the 130 Defenders? Or know a source for Series Wagon\Pickup sheet metal in mid east?
i know the 130 double-cab hcpu reasonably well... not sure about avaliability of parts for it in the u.s., however... but they do look cool... send me a pm with your e-mail adress and i'll send you a picture of a militarized version...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yea I got it man, it looks sweet. Right now I have decided to take a step back and rethink some things and do the math. Maths cheap, buying parts you don't plan on using is expensive. After talking with some old timers who have done these sorts of things before, engine swaps and such I am considering that realistically I am going to be driving more on the road then off road. Probably 75/25. The 4 doors will come in handy dispite the gained length. That and since im keeping the axles full width on the 31" rover frame with 34/36" tires I will be able to turn alot tighter. Options right now are the 13spd/205 with finding donor sheetmetal for the station wagon, or ditching the 13 speed and just going with a Nv4500 setup and hope the Cummins torque can get me through anything I need to do. One option I am currently exploring with little sucess is a Nv4500 with a 203/205 Doubler. I can't seem to find just how long this whole setup is from bellhousing to center of the rear yoke. It would do what the 13speed would do for me and might save on room.
 

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I think you will be ecstatic with the NV. I a running a 6.9 IDI (in 1983 its hp/tq specs were 170/315) through a NP435 (no o.d.) and a BW1356. My grunt in granny (approx 65:1) + 4l is amazing. I weigh 7k and am rocking 37" tires on 3.73 gears. It originally went together with 17" wide 40" tall bias Ground Hawgs, and the grunt was amazing. You way less, and are running smaller tires by comparison, with a healthier powerplant.

You'll be fine..... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Yea I'm leaning that way too. I can continue to figure out the doubler setup or put it together and drive it with a NV4500 dodge setup and get fancy later on with a klune or atlas or other high priced parts. But thats on the wants list, along with ARB lockers. At least I have everything needed for the conversion if I decide to do another truck with a longer wheelbase. Hmm... 13 speed deuce... Now I gotta hunt up a NV4500... Anyone need a 13spd?

Hopefully at the end of the week the weather will be good I can get everything outside to sandblast and paint, then the front axles going in.
Keep tuned ill post pics when the frames done.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Its been a crazy semester so I thought I would throw out some updates.

Frame:
I found time to sandblast and needle scale the frame and found some wonderful gifts from the British Army. The frame has been patched in several places and the patches have rusted out from the inside. Inside the frame is about 300lbs of dirt so I am sure that did not help much either. I am planning on cutting some access holes in the frame after I patch it so I can get a wand in there and coat the inside with rust inhibitor so my good bits don't rust out and so I can garden hose the mud out down the line. I am figuring putting bits of 3/8 rod around the holes to maintain some strength.

Axles:
I scored a set of new skyjacker soft ride 68-72 6 inch front springs to replace the front springs I had with zero arch in them. Hopefully with the cummins it will come out to about 4 inches of lift. If anyone has any experience with these I would like to hear it.
I drew the frame out in autocad and its looking like the springs will need to be two inches forward at the front perch and the shackle hole will be need to moved back 5 inches, as well as moved outboard a bit to fit the chevy axles. For the rear 14 bolt I am reusing the rover springs and just welding on new perches. The rear springs are already outboard of the front springs so I figure in the end they will come out about the same. If the front springs squat 2 inches or so I actually think its going to come out pretty level.

I will get some pictures of the frame and post them as soon as I can. The goal is right now to not worry about the details and focus on getting the axles positioned and in and then work out the motor/trans equation. I've decided on keeping the truck a regular 109 two door with the plan of front 60 with matching rear 14 bolt. 6BT with NV4500/NP205.

More to come soon as I have to fully utilize my summertime.
Morgan
 

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Discussion Starter #20
So I started digging into my frame yesterday and kept finding more and more crap. On a core component of the truck like this I want it right. I know that it will be subjected to a lot of torture from pulling and twisting forces and the last thing I need is for it to tear in two while I am winching on a trail.
After sitting back and calculating the costs the of wire, gas, abrasives, electric, and time that it is going to take to repair this thing I am leaning towards building a new frame from scratch ala CumminsRover style. In doing this I think I can widen the frame for the chevy axles to fit nicely and have a bit more room for the engine between the frame rails. I started to draw out the frame in cad from some chassis drawings I found on the net. I figure that will decide if the widening is viable.

Tell me what you guys think. These are a first is of the right hand side Bulkhead wing thing aka in american a body mount bracket. Its swiss cheese as are the fuel tank mounts. The next pic is the front spring hanger and frame, again cheese and ditto for the other side being as bad. The Third pic is a hole I cut into the rear frame rail where it meets the bumper. The brits scabbed over the frame, which just caused a crap trap between the two peices of steel. Oh, and I found a mouse nest inside the frame here along with the mud I found on both sides.

Thanks,
Morgan
 

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