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I did some research on it and it should work in stock form for now one company online sells a rear case upgrade to a dual rectifier. If I’m not mistaken this alternator is brushless and supposed to charge good at idle.
It's not brushless. The only brushless alternators I am aware of are some of the bigger/biggest Delco units. They are big, and have a unique appearance to the case due to the configuration of the rotor and the stationary field winding in the rear part of the alt case. In theory, the only thing that should ever wear out on a brushless alternator are the bearings. They're expensive suckers though. As long as brush-type alternators last, I'm not gonna shop for a brushless unit unless its the kind of deal I got on my AVi160's ;)
 
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After seeing this, I happened to see a 210 amp one on the bay. (60$) I got it and am making mounts currently. (This sucker is heavy) What is "remote sense"? Do I have to hook this up? The lamp is for warning light? So can I just hook up + and - and tach?
The sense must be hooked up on these alternators, but it doesn't have to go to the battery if your charging cable is nice and heavy and short. If that is the case, just a jumper wore from the + stud to the "S" stud is fine. If you do run a sense wire to the battery, it MUST be fused AT THE BATTERY! Use an inline fuse holder, and run a 2A fuse.

Yes, the "L" is for a lamp. It is optional on the AVi160 - you don't have to hook it up to anything. If you want a warning light, one side of the lamp connects to the "L" terminal while the other side of the lamp connects to a switched 12V source. If you use a 12V LED lamp, the negative lead goes to the alternator "L" terminal.

If you use the tach output (the "W" terminal), it must be either fused or have a current limiting resistor. Whether fuse or resistor, the protection device must be connected right at the "W" terminal. If you use a resistor, a 470 ohm or 1K ohm 2 watt metal oxide unit should be fine. If a fuse, use a 2A AGC type fuse in a sealed inline holder. If your alternator has the original back housing, it will have a yellow sticker warning that shorting/connecting "W" to ground will have dire consequences.

If for some reason this alternator dies on you and you have to get back on the road ASAP, so you're not able to wait for it to be rebuilt, there are cheap Delco 28si remans and knockoffs available that will bolt right up in place of the AVi160. Just get the cheapest one you can find, slap it on, and use it until you van get the AVi repaired/rebuilt. Like I said above, these are not throwaways, and I would never trade it in for a reman either. Keep yours and have a starter/alternator shop repair/rebuild it for you if you aren't capable of doing so yourself.
 
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First off, I'm no electrical engineer. But in all the reading I find from professionals who know they say to be cautious in replacing a fusible link with an in line fuse. Some say do not use an in line fuse for that application under any circumstance. They do not have the same characteristics. Unless they are special types, fuses will blow at a specific amperage. So, if you have a 250 amp alternator protected by a 250 amp fuse there is a great likelihood that you'll blow the fuse. It's recommended that a fuse be 10% higher value in such an application. Most automotive fuses are a quick blow type where fusible link wire is a slow blow. The wire isn't really rated in amps but in the size wire it protects. Normally it is 4 gauge numbers smaller. So a 10 ga wire would be protected by a 14 ga fusible link. In larger size cables you may need multiple strands of fusible link wire for protection. That is one area I'm not sure of. They only make fusible link wire in certain gauges. I believe 8 ga is the largest,
 

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The sense must be hooked up on these alternators, but it doesn't have to go to the battery if your charging cable is nice and heavy and short. If that is the case, just a jumper wore from the + stud to the "S" stud is fine. If you do run a sense wire to the battery, it MUST be fused AT THE BATTERY! Use an inline fuse holder, and run a 2A fuse.

Yes, the "L" is for a lamp. It is optional on the AVi160 - you don't have to hook it up to anything. If you want a warning light, one side of the lamp connects to the "L" terminal while the other side of the lamp connects to a switched 12V source. If you use a 12V LED lamp, the negative lead goes to the alternator "L" terminal.

If you use the tach output (the "W" terminal), it must be either fused or have a current limiting resistor. Whether fuse or resistor, the protection device must be connected right at the "W" terminal. If you use a resistor, a 470 ohm or 1K ohm 2 watt metal oxide unit should be fine. If a fuse, use a 2A AGC type fuse in a sealed inline holder. If your alternator has the original back housing, it will have a yellow sticker warning that shorting/connecting "W" to ground will have dire consequences.
Couple questions.

First, why a fuse on the sense wire? What is it protecting? I have 2 0 cable, but it is long. I'm probably going test a short jumper and full length sense wire and compare.

Second, my research indicates that I need a lamp if I want the alternator to charge immediately. Otherwise it won't charge untill the rpms get relatively high. (Maybe higher than the 4BT goes.)

Third, why the fuse on the W wire to the tach? Mine does have the sticker warning about grounding.

Any comment welcome. Thanks.

Of unrelated interest, I couldn't find any auto parts store that could test this alternator. I'm almost ready to run it. I just need a idler pulley and belt. I should have them next week.
 

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First off, I'm no electrical engineer. But in all the reading I find from professionals who know they say to be cautious in replacing a fusible link with an in line fuse. Some say do not use an in line fuse for that application under any circumstance. They do not have the same characteristics. Unless they are special types, fuses will blow at a specific amperage. So, if you have a 250 amp alternator protected by a 250 amp fuse there is a great likelihood that you'll blow the fuse. It's recommended that a fuse be 10% higher value in such an application. Most automotive fuses are a quick blow type where fusible link wire is a slow blow. The wire isn't really rated in amps but in the size wire it protects. Normally it is 4 gauge numbers smaller. So a 10 ga wire would be protected by a 14 ga fusible link. In larger size cables you may need multiple strands of fusible link wire for protection. That is one area I'm not sure of. They only make fusible link wire in certain gauges. I believe 8 ga is the largest,
The AGM/MEGA fuses are slow blow. What application are you referring to that one should not use a fuse instead of a fusible link?
 

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Couple questions.

First, why a fuse on the sense wire? What is it protecting? I have 2 0 cable, but it is long. I'm probably going test a short jumper and full length sense wire and compare.
The fuse protects the wire itself. If the sense wire shorts to ground anywhere along it's length and there is no fuse at the battery side, it will go up in smoke, possibly starting a fire.

The short jumper test won't be meaningful unless you know how much current is being drawn from the alternator. You will need to know that to determine voltage drop at full load. Forgoing that, you can simply calculate the resistance of your charging cable, and using that figure calculate the voltage drop at 210A, or any output current value of interest. Subtract that voltage figure from 14.2 and that will give you the charging voltage at the battery side of the charging cable.

Second, my research indicates that I need a lamp if I want the alternator to charge immediately. Otherwise it won't charge untill the rpms get relatively high. (Maybe higher than the 4BT goes.)
Interesting. I am running a lamp on mine, simply because the original CS-130 used the lamp and the wire was already there. Maybe as an experiment I will disconnect the lamp wire and see how much RPM I need to initiate charging.

Remember that the RPM value for when the alternator starts charging is alternator RPM, not crankshaft RPM. Alternators are considerably overdriven, so they spin much faster than the crank.

Third, why the fuse on the W wire to the tach? Mine does have the sticker warning about grounding.
That's why. Now that I think about it, I don't know if even a 2A fuse is small enough, because I don't have any info about how the W terminal is driven. Given that, I would feel best using a 1K resistor connected directly to the W terminal. Assuming a 12V RMS output, that would limit short-circuit current to only 12mA RMS.

Any comment welcome. Thanks.

Of unrelated interest, I couldn't find any auto parts store that could test this alternator. I'm almost ready to run it. I just need a idler pulley and belt. I should have them next week.
Not surprising since this is a big truck alternator. If the instructions aren't in the book for their test machine, you might as well be asking them to compute a Hohmann transfer orbit for a Mars probe. They're just as lost either way.
 
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The short jumper test won't be meaningful unless you know how much current is being drawn from the alternator. You will need to know that to determine voltage drop at full load. Forgoing that, you can simply calculate the resistance of your charging cable, and using that figure calculate the voltage drop at 210A, or any output current value of interest. Subtract that voltage figure from 14.2 and that will give you the charging voltage at the battery side of the charging cable.

Interesting. I am running a lamp on mine, simply because the original CS-130 used the lamp and the wire was already there. Maybe as an experiment I will disconnect the lamp wire and see how much RPM I need to initiate charging.
On the jumper test, I was thinking of just measuring voltage at the battery with the long sense and jumper. As I understand it, if the jumper is showing 14.5 and the battery is showing 14, it will have longer charge time and shorter battery life.

Thinking some more, (dangerous I know), all I really have to do is hook the jumper up and read voltage at the alternator and battery. If there's no drop or less than .1 drop, it probably is no big deal. The research I've read says that if the drop is .5 volts, I will have longer charge time and shorter battery life. The artical I read suggested this was mainly a problem with applications where the vehical would make multiple stops/shutdowns with short run times.

I hate to be a pita, but Please let me know about the lamp test. I really don't want to install one. But if I have to, I will.

One other question, could you explain how you wired your tach? What kind? I have a autometer. I also bought a Decoda digital "interface box" and a DD magnetic pick up. The main reason I bought this alternator is so I don't have to use the pickup. (My other alt did not have a tach wire)

And since I'm allready being a pita, I might as well ask you how do you split up a quote and address each point? I have to quote your whole post and delete the things that don't apply to my next question. It would be nice to do it the way you do for clarity.

One other thing, Thankyou!!
 

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Instead of the lamp you can use a resistor and just wire into a keyed circuit. Have seen a schematic for a 3G alternator using a 510 ohm resistor.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Well my CS144 140amp alternator came today guys it’s the 4 wire version I’ll be using the plug with the resistor built in they were very in expensive between 10$&15$. I have a bunch of heavy duty wire from a military communications shelter I’ve been hoarding so will be using for this build and have a brand new wiring harness with all the fuses as I was not wanting to deal with wiring that’s almost as old as my mom Shhh 🤫 don’t tell her I said that🤣
 

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On the jumper test, I was thinking of just measuring voltage at the battery with the long sense and jumper. As I understand it, if the jumper is showing 14.5 and the battery is showing 14, it will have longer charge time and shorter battery life.

Thinking some more, (dangerous I know), all I really have to do is hook the jumper up and read voltage at the alternator and battery. If there's no drop or less than .1 drop, it probably is no big deal. The research I've read says that if the drop is .5 volts, I will have longer charge time and shorter battery life. The artical I read suggested this was mainly a problem with applications where the vehical would make multiple stops/shutdowns with short run times.
The problem with this is that the charging current at 14.2V output on a 12.6V battery isn't going to be nearly enough to cause a substantial voltage drop. It would be more realistic if you had every electrical load on the truck running, but the most realistic is to have nearly the maximum output current of the alternator being drawn. For example, measure the voltage drop while the grid heaters are running. Otherwise, measure the length of both charging cables (+ and -) and using that and the AWG of the cable you can determine the voltage drop without doing any measuring.

The best thing is to simply run the sense wire. 18-22ga wire from the + battery terminal to the "s" terminal on the alternator, with a 2A inline blade fuse in a weather sealed fuse holder at the + battery terminal to protect the "s" wire should it accidentally rub through to ground somewhere. With the sense wire, you will always have 14.2V at the + terminal, regardless of voltage drop along the charging cable.

I hate to be a pita, but Please let me know about the lamp test. I really don't want to install one. But if I have to, I will.
I will do it this weekend.

One other question, could you explain how you wired your tach? What kind? I have a autometer. I also bought a Decoda digital "interface box" and a DD magnetic pick up. The main reason I bought this alternator is so I don't have to use the pickup. (My other alt did not have a tach wire)
I don't have a tach at the moment. It's in my "to-do" list. Wiring it is simple, assuming your tach is designed to accept an alternator tach output. Just run the tach signal input wire to the alternator "w" terminal. Make sure to put one lead of a 1K ohm 2W metal oxide resistor on the "w" terminal, with the tach input wire connected to the other lead of the resistor. This will protect the tach output on the alternator from damage if the tach wire should somehow short to ground. Depending on what the "w" is connected to inside the alternator, it may even prevent a fire. I know the "w" connects to one of the stator outputs, but I don't know if it is a direct connection or of it is isolated by an internal op-amp, diode, etc. If it's a direct connection or connected through a diode it could easily supply enough current to smoke a small gauge wire. If it is isolated by an op-amp, then just the op-amp would die. It may be isolated by an open-drain or open-collector transistor, in which case it may or may not be able to supply enough current to start a fire. The point is, I don't know, but I DO know that at the least it would damage the regulator module on the alternator. That being the case, a 25 cent resistor seems to be prudent protection.

And since I'm allready being a pita, I might as well ask you how do you split up a quote and address each point? I have to quote your whole post and delete the things that don't apply to my next question. It would be nice to do it the way you do for clarity.

One other thing, Thankyou!!
Simple. Wrap the parts you want to quote with quote tags. For example, the last paragraph of yours I quoted looked like this in my reply box:

Code:
[quote]And since I'm allready being a pita, I might as well ask you how do you split up a quote and address each point? I have to quote your whole post and delete the things that don't apply to my next question. It would be nice to do it the way you do for clarity.

One other thing, Thankyou!!
[/quote]
Note that the word "quote" inside the brackets can be either caps or lowercase. The software on the system writes it in caps when you quote a post, but I use lowercase because I'm too lazy to press the caps or caps-lock key. Works the same either way. Before you post the reply, use the "preview" feature to make sure your formatting is the way you want it.
 

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Quick update,

I tested the alternator today. I installed the short jumper from the charge terminal to the sense terminal. (For now) I can confirm that it charges immediately without the lamp terminal hooked up. I measured 14.26 at the alternator and 14.23 at the battery. This was with nothing electrical draw. (Except the fuel selinoid)

Of interest, I was also testing my electric fans on the radiator. I ran the engine for over twenty minutes and it never got hot enough to turn them on. I pointed a digital temp gun at the thermostat housing. It never got over 181 degrees. I don't know when it opens, maybe 190.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
I would assume it would depend on where your temperature probe is placed and what your thermostat is opening up at you may have the 180 and may have to go up to say 190 if it’s not getting hot enough or see if you have a temperature adjustment on the fan switch.
 

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I went for simplicity. I just have two thermostat switch/probes. One is 190 and the other is 200. Each one controls one fan. Those switches are in line from the radiator, so if the engine thermostat doesn't open, the fans will never turn on. In all my testing of the truck, I only ever turned on one fan manually. I got a feeling I'm only going to need one fan. I'll see better when I get to driving it other than testing.
 

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Quick update,

I tested the alternator today. I installed the short jumper from the charge terminal to the sense terminal. (For now) I can confirm that it charges immediately without the lamp terminal hooked up. I measured 14.26 at the alternator and 14.23 at the battery. This was with nothing electrical draw. (Except the fuel selinoid)
Good deal. I didn't get a chance to run that experiment this weekend. Looks like I don't need to now.

Of interest, I was also testing my electric fans on the radiator. I ran the engine for over twenty minutes and it never got hot enough to turn them on. I pointed a digital temp gun at the thermostat housing. It never got over 181 degrees. I don't know when it opens, maybe 190.

I have a 180° stat in my engine. In cooler weather it will sit at around 180 indicated unless I am stopped for a prolonged period of time. In actual cold weather it will stay there, period. Especially if the heater is pulling heat from the engine. If the weather is warm enough and/or I'm sitting still for a time, coolant temp will slowly creep up until my fan switch engages at around 195°. It disengages at 175°-180°, so as a rule once it engages it won't disengage again until the engine is shut down and cools off a little. If it's cool enough outside it may shut off since the open temp is very close to the thermostat opening temp. It just depends on ambient temps.

I've found the 180° stat to be fine. The main reasons I can see for running a 190 would be if you want warmer air from your heater core. I don't know if the extra 10° would really help much otherwise. If there is some compelling reason why a 190° stat would be better I would consider running one, as long as I can get a genuine Cummins part. My experience with aftermarket stats on other engines has not been positive, and I'm not alone. I've heard negative things about aftermarket stats on Cummins engines as well. So I'd suggest sticking to OE stats on any engine.
 

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I've found the 180° stat to be fine. The main reasons I can see for running a 190 would be if you want warmer air from your heater core. I don't know if the extra 10° would really help much otherwise. If there is some compelling reason why a 190° stat would be better I would consider running one, as long as I can get a genuine Cummins part. My experience with aftermarket stats on other engines has not been positive, and I'm not alone. I've heard negative things about aftermarket stats on Cummins engines as well. So I'd suggest sticking to OE stats on any engine.
I was just guessing on the 190. I have been so long on this build that I don't even remember changing the thermostat. I did change the thermostat housing and would seem like I would have put a new one in. I'm sure I would put the same temp in unless I was having problems. (I wasn't)

I don't believe it opened because the radiator never got hot. I have stainless tubes going from the engine to the radiator and they warmed up, but didn't get hot. I'm sure that water was never "flowing". I'm amazed that the engine can run with no cooling and not get hot. (The heater core is not hooked up)

In any case, back to the original topic. I have to say I was happy with my original 130 amp alternator, but I even have more confidence in this one. If I get the tach working, I will be completely sold on it. One issue I have is it is only hooked up with 2 ga cables right now. The cables are only about 1 1/2' long where they hook to 2 O cables that go the rest of the way to the battery. (My battery is in the rear))

Anyways, Thankyou MaxPF for putting me on to it.
 

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I was just guessing on the 190. I have been so long on this build that I don't even remember changing the thermostat. I did change the thermostat housing and would seem like I would have put a new one in. I'm sure I would put the same temp in unless I was having problems. (I wasn't)

I don't believe it opened because the radiator never got hot. I have stainless tubes going from the engine to the radiator and they warmed up, but didn't get hot. I'm sure that water was never "flowing". I'm amazed that the engine can run with no cooling and not get hot. (The heater core is not hooked up)

In any case, back to the original topic. I have to say I was happy with my original 130 amp alternator, but I even have more confidence in this one. If I get the tach working, I will be completely sold on it. One issue I have is it is only hooked up with 2 ga cables right now. The cables are only about 1 1/2' long where they hook to 2 O cables that go the rest of the way to the battery. (My battery is in the rear))

Anyways, Thankyou MaxPF for putting me on to it.
I hope you have a bypass loop on the heater circuit? It needs to be restricted to 1/4" at the outlet. If you don't have coolant flowing in the heater circuit you are definitely hotspotting the engine. It's likely the head is nearly empty of coolant. You really should read the Cummins B series install manual.
 

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I hope you have a bypass loop on the heater circuit? It needs to be restricted to 1/4" at the outlet. If you don't have coolant flowing in the heater circuit you are definitely hotspotting the engine. It's likely the head is nearly empty of coolant. You really should read the Cummins B series install manual.
Right now I just have a short hose going from one outlet to the other.

As far as hot spots. There are two kinds of heat valves. One just closes in one or the other lines to the core. The other is a double valve that sends the flow back to the engine. I have the latter on my DD 90' Bronco because of hot spots you mention. (I suspect you know all this) The other style valve is on the older Broncos. (Like 70's)

Years ago, I asked on this forum which style should be used on the 4BT. I was told by several people that just a shut off is all you need. (No need to flow) While I have the loop right now, I will be installing the heat system shortly with an old style valve. I know that a loop valve won't hurt the engine, I like the quality of the old style.

So, my question now is, have you something official that says I need to let it flow? Please let me know because I'm literally looking to do this in the next couple days.
 

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Can you quote the B series manual?
 

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When Asked before, this was the answer. (From admin)

When properly plumbed it is not only permissible but is required.
Take a look at the sticky for more details. If you leave the 4BT heater circuit open, no heater shut off valve, you bypass the thermostat.
 
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