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Ive done a lot of research into the waterless coolant. It has a number of good features, but there are some bad ones too. The biggest is that it doesn’t cool quite as effectively.
However, it eliminates cavitation, because it does not boil at the lower temps regular coolant does, which is the biggest issue with gas and diesel. In other words, your temps could look normal but cavitation is doing damage because water boils, and that boiling point is set by the radiator cap poundage.
GM had placed seam lines, on gas performance engines and diesels too, because of cavitation.
As 'effective' goes, all engine cooling systems, are in need of sealing all the gaps in and around the radiator support, so most airflow goes through the shroud and radiator at speed, the shroud is for lower speeds and stop and go traffic situations.
I installed vents on my hood (aka: bonnet too some) at the trailing edge of the radiator just past the radiator support, it pulls air through the radiator and up and out the hood.
I will post some images, at day break today after I shoot some...
 

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I have another question. I don’t know how anything can be run from the freeze plug in the rear of the block since it has no threads ? Can’t just use regular plumbing parts.
Papa, if you look at post #3 you'll see the parts that connect to that rear freeze plug. It was commonly used to route the hot water from an air compressor. Your engine is set up for a special industrial application. You have 2 sensors up front and the one on the rear side of the head. That rear one may be a switch for an electric fan. Would need to know the exact model of your machine and I might be able to look it up. The front sensors would likely be a gauge and the second one possibly a warning light or buzzer. On a rear bypass system you'd probably want to dump the hot water from the rear of the block direct back to the radiator. There may be a threaded port on the thermostat housing to allow that. Depends on which one you have.
 

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However, it eliminates cavitation, because it does not boil at the lower temps regular coolant does, which is the biggest issue with gas and diesel. In other words, your temps could look normal but cavitation is doing damage because water boils, and that boiling point is set by the radiator cap poundage.
GM had placed seam lines, on gas performance engines and diesels too, because of cavitation.
As 'effective' goes, all engine cooling systems, are in need of sealing all the gaps in and around the radiator support, so most airflow goes through the shroud and radiator at speed, the shroud is for lower speeds and stop and go traffic situations.
I installed vents on my hood (aka: bonnet too some) at the trailing edge of the radiator just past the radiator support, it pulls air through the radiator and up and out the hood.
I will post some images, at day break today afte
However, it eliminates cavitation, because it does not boil at the lower temps regular coolant does, which is the biggest issue with gas and diesel. In other words, your temps could look normal but cavitation is doing damage because water boils, and that boiling point is set by the radiator cap poundage.
GM had placed seam lines, on gas performance engines and diesels too, because of cavitation.
As 'effective' goes, all engine cooling systems, are in need of sealing all the gaps in and around the radiator support, so most airflow goes through the shroud and radiator at speed, the shroud is for lower speeds and stop and go traffic situations.
I installed vents on my hood (aka: bonnet too some) at the trailing edge of the radiator just past the radiator support, it pulls air through the radiator and up and out the hood.
I will post some images, at day break today after I shoot some...
Thanks Subrutus. For the explanation . All of this is in my 1989 Case Tractor Backhoe, Cummins 4bt , I actually have 3 radiators cores in front with the middle one being divided for oil coolers to give me 4 & yes every thing is blocked so all air comes only through them & of course has a fan shroud . I had radiator leak close to the inlet hose , made a plate to cover but just could not get it sealed , so took it to rad shop, asked for a rodding job which they refused, so asked to boil it out , & pressure test, I don’t think they did either, because it leaked when I put it in , but I could not find the leak due to all the stuffing around it, until I pulled it all out again couple mo ago , after I got a new one from Amazon, made by Alloy Works all aluminum radiators, & bold as day there in the steel upper tank a rotten spot. Due to the constant leak & time every unpainted thing rusted, so am now cleaning, & painting, what a job.
So I was not able to build pressure, maybe that has been the problem .
This new radiator came with a 18 lb pressure cap, have never seen one greater than 13 lb.
I read on one of the threads hear on 4bt swap that someone had blown the freeze plugs , so I am Leary of putting the 18lb cap on ?? Say you ?
 

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Papa, if you look at post #3 you'll see the parts that connect to that rear freeze plug. It was commonly used to route the hot water from an air compressor. Your engine is set up for a special industrial application. You have 2 sensors up front and the one on the rear side of the head. That rear one may be a switch for an electric fan. Would need to know the exact model of your machine and I might be able to look it up. The front sensors would likely be a gauge and the second one possibly a warning light or buzzer. On a rear bypass system you'd probably want to dump the hot water from the rear of the block direct back to the radiator. There may be a threaded port on the thermostat housing to allow that. Depends on which one you have.
Thank Char . I had looked & I looked again at post #3 & saw all that , but did not understand why anyone would want to take water out of the block under cyl#4 , instead of out of the head & do the return to the front before the thermostat . I just went out & checked my thermostat housing , & it does not have a access port. The more I think about this, the reason I have 2 sensors at the front is . I had forgotten that I bought & installed the second one because the wiring harness had the wire for it, which I hooked up but saw no difference in my stock instrument temp gauge. But your statement about a buzzer stuck a cord with me . I found a buzzer down under the inst panel that had its wire cut & could find no place to re-hook it , also found, there had been some burned out wires & re-wire , as well as a burned out spot in the fuse block.
The one you see at the back of the head, is also one I installed , ( where my cab heater had formally been ), to run the temp gauge , I built a box for & mounted to my steering column along with a actual oil pressure gauge with a low pressure buzzer & red light .
There is a removable heat shield panel within -1” of the back of the engine, infact so close that the exhaust manifold of #4 cyl. that it was burned , so I build & installed an aluminum heat shield to protect , works good , so there is no room there to put anything .
I plan on putting that short nipple- (you see in the picture)- & a 1/2” tee with “the”extra sensor in the bottom end & a 3/8 hose barb in the top for 3/8 gas line hose to run to the front of the head & remove the sensor furthest away from the thermostat, put in reducing bushing, 4”- 3/8 pipe , 90*, & 3/8 hose barb, all brass , run the 3/8 line above the rocker covers, under the air pipe from the turbo.
Now Steve Eggman said he installed a ball valve , to use as a adj check valve when he made one to come out the freeze plug in the rear of the block & I thank him for his input ! I had originally planned on a 5/8” heater hose until he said that
What do you think about a regulating valve , in my set up idea , would it be recommended ? & Why — THANKS
 

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Papa, that setup in post #3 is a hot water return from the air compressor going into the engine. Bit it could also be used as the source of hot water coming out of the block and leading to a return to the radiator. I suspected your water outlet didn't have provision for a bypass. About the only one I know of was the one used on the late first gen Dodge Cummins in the photo below. A simple solution would be a T in the upper radiator hose like shown below.
 

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Thanks Subrutus. For the explanation . All of this is in my 1989 Case Tractor Backhoe, Cummins 4bt , I actually have 3 radiators cores in front with the middle one being divided for oil coolers to give me 4 & yes every thing is blocked so all air comes only through them & of course has a fan shroud . I had radiator leak close to the inlet hose , made a plate to cover but just could not get it sealed , so took it to rad shop, asked for a rodding job which they refused, so asked to boil it out , & pressure test, I don’t think they did either, because it leaked when I put it in , but I could not find the leak due to all the stuffing around it, until I pulled it all out again couple mo ago , after I got a new one from Amazon, made by Alloy Works all aluminum radiators, & bold as day there in the steel upper tank a rotten spot. Due to the constant leak & time every unpainted thing rusted, so am now cleaning, & painting, what a job.
So I was not able to build pressure, maybe that has been the problem .
This new radiator came with a 18 lb pressure cap, have never seen one greater than 13 lb.
I read on one of the threads hear on 4bt swap that someone had blown the freeze plugs , so I am Leary of putting the 18lb cap on ?? Say you ?
Old freeze plugs (aka: casting plugs), should be replaced. 18lb pressure cap is not the problem. The plugs can leak or pop out because of excessive RPM, because of the W/P increase of coolant flow.
New freeze plugs, can be sealed with modern adhesive, pinned also, as not too worry about plug failure at high RPM.
 
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Old freeze plugs (aka: casting plugs), should be replaced. 18lb pressure cap is not the problem. The plugs can leak or pop out because of excessive RPM, because of the W/P increase of coolant flow.
New freeze plugs, can be sealed with modern adhesive, pinned also, as not too worry about plug failure at high RPM.
Thank you sir. When I rebuilt the motor I did put in new plugs .
Today I looked at that new cap again & it appears my memory was off by “1” lb . So you say that pressure should be ok , as for rpm it is limited to 2400 but I never go over 2200.
I also understand that 50/50 antifreeze water has a higher boiling point , but don’t know what the diff is .
Thanks
 

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Papa, that setup in post #3 is a hot water return from the air compressor going into the engine. Bit it could also be used as the source of hot water coming out of the block and leading to a return to the radiator. I suspected your water outlet didn't have provision for a bypass. About the only one I know of was the one used on the late first gen Dodge Cummins in the photo below. A simple solution would be a T in the upper radiator hose like shown below.
Thanks . I don’t know about any of this ,an air compressor needing hot water or connected to hot water ??? My bad !
A question about this blog site ? Once you have posted & you see that you have made a mistake , is there any way to correct it ?
Radiator cap , I was off by -1 lb - cap is 19 psi
In my heater system, the return from the heater , via 5/8 heater hose went to the lower radiator hose right under the water pump through a 3/8 shut of valve, so when open the water pump was sucking from it & the radiator, literally pulling the water out of that port on the back of the head .
Yes that upper radiator hose piece would be my only way to get water back into the system after the thermostat, but where would I get on of those in Costa Rica ?
I though to remove that heat sensor/ sending unit I had installed, (the one on the right in the picture) , since it does nothing anyway , & return the coolant there . Would that be a problem? And if not , what size hose should I use ?
Or I could run a new hose from the back of the head >(via a street tee , so I could still have my heat gauge functional)< to the water pump & valve as it was before , just no heater.
What say you ?
Sorry to be such a bother .
 

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As far as correcting a post, you can edit one. There are 3 dots on the top right side of the post. Click on that and you'll see the word "Edit". Click on that and make the necessary changes. Then click on save at the bottom of the page. On that radiator hose T, do you get Amazon shipments where you are? Of course freight cost will be sort of bad. You'd want to make sure of the size of you upper hose ID. Possibly 1-3/4" or 2". Here's an example of a 1-3/4" on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Kats-28116-L...4b-aa61-3690e8e4aba0&pd_rd_i=B003LFI62U&psc=1 Are there any major auto parts stores in your country? That Kat's part 28116 is 1-3/4" and 28117 is 2.00". Yes, the water routing on the air compressor can compound a cooling issue. The hot coming out of the compressor either goes to that fitting on the back or the block or to the port on the rear side of the head like in the photo below. That is dumping water into the engine where it is already the hottest. The hose connection on those Kat's units is 5/8" which is a common heater hose size. If you aren't using that sensor on the back rear of the head you could plumb in a fitting there since that is where the hottest water is. Lot cheaper than that rear plate from Cummins. That plate is around $60. It actually has 2 ports. One out the left side facing the rear and one out the center of the rear. Both ports are 1/2" NPT.
 

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As far as correcting a post, you can edit one. There are 3 dots on the top right side of the post. Click on that and you'll see the word "Edit". Click on that and make the necessary changes. Then click on save at the bottom of the page. On that radiator hose T, do you get Amazon shipments where you are? Of course freight cost will be sort of bad. You'd want to make sure of the size of you upper hose ID. Possibly 1-3/4" or 2". Here's an example of a 1-3/4" on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Kats-28116-L...4b-aa61-3690e8e4aba0&pd_rd_i=B003LFI62U&psc=1 Are there any major auto parts stores in your country? That Kat's part 28116 is 1-3/4" and 28117 is 2.00". Yes, the water routing on the air compressor can compound a cooling issue. The hot coming out of the compressor either goes to that fitting on the back or the block or to the port on the rear side of the head like in the photo below. That is dumping water into the engine where it is already the hottest. The hose connection on those Kat's units is 5/8" which is a common heater hose size. If you aren't using that sensor on the back rear of the head you could plumb in a fitting there since that is where the hottest water is. Lot cheaper than that rear plate from Cummins. That plate is around $60. It actually has 2 ports. One out the left side facing the rear and one out the center of the rear. Both ports are 1/2" NPT.
Thanks char. Now I know how to make edits here.
As I mentioned before I am using that port in the back of the head infact it is for the special gauge I bought that actually tells me the temp & has a blue light warning. See the pictures at # 13 above . That WAS the source of hot water for the in cab heater , with the return going to a 3/8” shut of valve screwed into the bottom of the lower radiator hose fixture. Now those two sensors in the front of the head shown in entry #13 , I installed the one on the right because the harness had a wire for it , but it has not helped in any way. As you said it might have had one there originally for the purpose of a buzzer ,which I found under the instrument panel with cut wire & no obvious place to re-connect .
So I am looking at putting a “tee “ in the port at the rear of the head , so l can still use my special gauge & have a way to facilitate pulling -hot - water out of cylinder #4 & put it back into the system at the extra sensor at the front of the head , since it is of no use anyway .
Would this not work ?
 

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Ok supper/ dinner got in the way here & somehow I touched the Reply , but actually this is just a add-on .
The problem with the upper hose re-entry setup is getting it here , we have learned that what ever the listed value is they slap on a import charge of 30-50* ! So we bring everything in , & we are not going back to US anytime soon .
I realize that dumping the hot water from #4 cyl in infront of the thermostat will cause it to open sooner, but would that cause a problem? & & Since the previous system had the water being sucked out of #4 by the water pump, I don’t think the water bypassing 3,2,1, & re-entering at the thermostat would be robbing to much water from cylinders, but would it be bypassing even enough, to be of any significance,. Would a 3/8” hose flow more than going through the head ? Or would a 5/8” be better because of less resistance ?
The other option is to connect a hose from #4 cyl head port around to the water pump , trouble there is , it would not be cooled any ,- ie feeding the water pump hot water direct from cyl #4 .
 

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Ok supper/ dinner got in the way here & somehow I touched the Reply , but actually this is just a add-on .
The problem with the upper hose re-entry setup is getting it here , we have learned that what ever the listed value is they slap on a import charge of 30-50* ! So we bring everything in , & we are not going back to US anytime soon .
I realize that dumping the hot water from #4 cyl in infront of the thermostat will cause it to open sooner, but would that cause a problem? & & Since the previous system had the water being sucked out of #4 by the water pump, I don’t think the water bypassing 3,2,1, & re-entering at the thermostat would be robbing to much water from cylinders, but would it be bypassing even enough, to be of any significance,. Would a 3/8” hose flow more than going through the head ? Or would a 5/8” be better because of less resistance ?
The other option is to connect a hose from #4 cyl head port around to the water pump , trouble there is , it would not be cooled any ,- ie feeding the water pump hot water direct from cyl #4 .
I "think" it really needs to be down stream from the thermostat to function to best effect.
 

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I "think" it really needs to be down stream from the thermostat to function to best effect.
Thanks Steve , if so , I might just have to see if I can fab one at a machine shop not to far away that they have been gracious enough to allow me to work in . Brazing a pipe on the side of another is not a problem , but making the raised section on each end , I don’t know
 

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Thanks Steve , if so , I might just have to see if I can fab one at a machine shop not to far away that they have been gracious enough to allow me to work in . Brazing a pipe on the side of another is not a problem , but making the raised section on each end , I don’t know
Just use a piece of bar stock and a lathe to do the OD and barb on each end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
If you aren't using that sensor on the back rear of the head you could plumb in a fitting there since that is where the hottest water is.
This is what I was thinking. My freeze plug is covered by a mount for my intercooler. My sensor is there, but I could move it to another location or put it inline. Where would be best to bring the bypass back into the system?
 

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This is what I was thinking. My freeze plug is covered by a mount for my intercooler. My sensor is there, but I could move it to another location or put it inline. Where would be best to bring the bypass back into the system?
Down stream from thermostat and before radiator.
 
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Papa, that buzzer you found could well be for low oil pressure. Is there possibly a sensor located on the oil filter housing. That was common on industrial equipment.
Now that is a great thought , but No . Infact I do not even have a stock pressure gauge , what it has is oil temp & that sensor is under the fuel inj pump , & there is another temp sensor /sender in the head behind the inj pump about center of the head
picture 1 is of the sensor.
#2 proposed water route, that bracket where you see my hand is the muffler support , bolted to the air con pump bracket , the bypass hose runs under the turbo air & the lifting bracket at the rear (you see in the pics at #13 above ) with the edge cut off to clear the air cleaner, will have to be removed
#3 where heater hose used to connect, temporarily installed it for photo.
#4 is the lower crank pulley, with that adapter that has the 12mm x 1.25 x 45 stamped 12.9 which is gr 10
I am on the process of cleaning up rust & doing some painting.
I have to clean & re-black all the metal on the inj pump don’t known yet just how !
Motor vehicle Gas Automotive exterior Wood Auto part
Automotive tire Gas Personal protective equipment Rim Auto part
Wood Gesture Gas Tints and shades Auto part
Hood Grille Wood Automotive lighting Bumper
 

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This is what I was thinking. My freeze plug is covered by a mount for my intercooler. My sensor is there, but I could move it to another location or put it inline. Where would be best to bring the bypass back into the system?
Do you not have a 1/2” threaded NPT wIth a plug in it , right behind the fuel filters ?
Put a street tee in it for your temp sensor & a hose barb for your bypass hose .
Seams like everyone is agreed that it must go into the upper rad hose , at least that is the feeling I get .
Just Incase you don’t know what a Street T is here is a picture
 

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That port in your first photo is water also. That is often the sport for the sensor for the injection pump KSB for engines with the Bosch VE pump. You say there is no oil pressure gauge. That is very strange. Never seen an industrial engine that didn't have one. The sensor for that is normally on the block beside the lift pump. I would consider it very dangerous to operate any engine without an oil pressure gauge.
 
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