[Gifu]

i've been reading and digesting, and talking to lotsa diesel folks, but so much of the info regarding turbos and injectors seems to be based on, "yup, might work... but it might'n not work... hard tell'n, not knowing"... so, i'm just going to try stuff myself.

I'm looking for a bigger turbo, but the differences between the HY35, HX35, and HY35W is confusing. Or... are they all "w"? I plan on trying either Bosch 190's or something else that is more efficient then the POD injectors.

Can someone tell me what "compressor surge is?"

 

[bcowanwheels]

Want A Tip ? Build It To Stock Cpl. You,ll Be Glad You Did....

 

[mooktank]

W is for wastegated. I run an Hy35W with the wastegate welded shut. I only hit 25psi max for now. Have some fun with the full fuel screw and AFC pin. Search the 1st gen dodge stuff for answers since they have the same pump as us.

And compressor surge is when the pressure outlet of the compressor is blocked and tries to rush back in. Doesn't happen on a diesel really. It's caused by the throttle of a gasser. Silly gassers...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Want A Tip ? Build It To Stock Cpl. You,ll Be Glad You Did....

see I agree with this a little but I did add a bigger turbo and it was night and day.. Better mileage, better power, don't think its compromising anything. I had bad luck with the Bosch 190s but I think they sent me the wrong ones, I think I was running the 9mm ones when it called for 7mm. The Bosch 190s are factory bosch, actually let out less fuel but are more efficient than our stock Bosch 185 injectors so not that big a difference either. Other guys have reported good results with the Bosch 190 injectors..

Anyway, neither of these are too far off stock. I turn up the pump a hair but I run low power increases and am happy and don't think I have compromised anything at all longevity wise...

Also, my setup this time is the HY35W.. It is a little tricky to get it mounted. This time I chopped a 6BT manifold, flipped, and it is great, also lets you run the ford vertical style oil filter setup which is cleaner for oil changes... Here is a pic... The elbow does kind of stick out though, a little odd... Again I don't think they is anything wrong with putting in a little more air for more power and better efficiency, don't think it will hurt anything at all.. You can find the HY35W's for sale in the turbodieselregister.com classifieds (free, open to everyone) for about $250-$350 with low miles. I paid $250 shipped with less than 50K miles for mine, in great shape, but that was a good deal... HY35W is the answer all but it is what I did, I think it will run great. Still unsure whether I'll stick with the stock injectors or maybe go up to the Bosch 190s.. Definitely not the PODs for me either, though they are tempting

Just my $.02...

 

[JimmieD]

You won't have any trouble going with any of Dodge/Cummins standard power levels. Anything they put a new car warranty on is safe.

It's not so much what you do to the engine like turning up the pump, adding more turbo, or opening up the exhaust. The thing that's damaging is beating the daylights out of the tweaked engine at every stop light and continuously running it hard on the freeways. That's what kills them. Install gauges FIRST before doing any tweaks or upgrades so you know for sure where you're at. Pyrometer is the very first upgrade to install.

It's very difficult to guess exact power output of an upgrade. Air filter size, restriction of air filter media, turbo inlet placement, boots & tubing size, compressor housing size, compressor impeller size, exhaust housing size, exhaust dameter, length to where exhaust opens up, muffler size and type, exhaust pipe length, compressor outlet pipe diameter and type of bends, injector size, type & brand, intercooler/aftercooler size, loacation, inlet & outlet size & length & number of bends, lift pump, fuel line diameter, fuel injection pump condition, general engine condition all have an effect on "Will this work?". After that it's impossible to accurately compare any 2 injection pumps and timing curves and screw or fuel pin settings. You can get close, but that's it.

To me it's most important to have a durable engine, then performance. So PYROMETER comes first, exhaust upgrade second, compressor upgrade third, aftercooler fourth, then and only then does it get fuel tweaks. Safer that way.

 

[Driverswanted]

lift pump, fuel line diameter, fuel injection pump condition

Have you been able to determine something inadequate in the stock configurations?

 

[JimmieD]

Have you been able to determine something inadequate in the stock configurations?

No, wasn't saying that. Just listing those along with the many other things that have an overall effect on any particular engine. As far as stock configurations, I've read probably hundreds of threads by various people who have done the same thing, such as adjust the full power screw and smoke screw, and see widely varying results, so it's getting the combination right that's critical, not one single part or upgrade. Trying to explain why he can't seem to get solid answers that 'doing this will cause this'. Too many ifs....

 

[Dougal]

see I agree with this a little but I did add a bigger turbo and it was night and day.. Better mileage, better power, don't think its compromising anything.

IMO your going to get the best mileage and power from the biggest turbo that'll still boost at cruising speeds. But drivability can suffer depending on your gearing and gaps between gears.

It's all a compromise.

 

[JimmieD]

"It's all a compromise."

Actually that may be the key to successful upgrades! We know there are compromises, but knowing that can also help. Speaking of my own plan for upgrades, I have a target result to shoot for. That is, I don't want to go any higher than about 140-150HP, and whatever torque develops there.

With that in mind I can select parts that are slightly overkill, like a wee bit more turbo and exhaust, and end up with a package that has all the right compromises. I have a step by step plan as mentioned, so that each progressive upgrade won't have drawbacks.

I see far too many guys modifying this, 'upgrading' that, adding this, pumping up that. Maybe 3 different lift pumps, 3 to 5 different turbos, different injection pumps etc. Why? Because they didn't have a target horsepower rating and didn't know what it would take to satisfy their desires. They just don't know what they want.

That might be fun in a way, but it's also a huge waste of time and money. Too often the result is a blown head or toasted engine, trying to get the last few HP out. They would have had a lot more play money if they'd just gone right up to the ultra-turbo, P-100 pump with Walbro, monster exhaust and huge injectors right from the start, while also O-ringing the head, HD studs etc.

 

[mooktank]

Piston pump is a good upgrade if you want to run bio or want to get more power out of it.

Tweaking the VE is easy and can get you enough power IMO. My truck screams and I only hit 1100F with stock injectors.

Do the 3200 gov spring it's worth it for $15.

Get a more efficient turbo (hx35, hy35, ball bearing Garrett whatever)

It's all worth it.

 

[Gifu]

what's a piston pump upgrade?

and what is the part# for the governor spring?

found a 2004.5 HY35W/9CM. Going to be a tight fit with the wastegate, we shall see. if it doesn't fit, i have a 12CM nonwaste (ie: 1" shorter).

I'm not shooting for a drag racer... but there are some serious hills between me and Tahoe, and I'd like to be able to keep up with traffic.

 

[Driverswanted]

found a 2004.5 HY35W/9CM. Going to be a tight fit with the wastegate

where are you seeing the interference? Mine fit in O.K. except for modification to turn the exhaust down faster; that was only because I kept my engine close to the firewall as i wanted my shifter in the old position I had with the gasser. The front side of the turbo intake can be turned out nicely behind the alternator with a standard 6BT intake hose.

 

[tndonor]

Just some food for thought. In the talks of keeping a stock configuration with smaler turbo, etc.

My 4b came with a P pump and HX30W. The best I can tell it is right in between the H1 and H35s. From the factory it has a stock TQ rating of 350. I think it is often assumed that the 105 Horse and 265 TQ is the stock standard. While they are probably the most plentiful, other options were available and did just fine.

Hopefully in a few weeks Ill be able to give a raod test review as a 3200 GS has been installed along with an intercooler and a few turns on the star wheel.

Above all, if you do not know what a "stock" rating gives you. Drive it there. If you need or want more, then start adding. Most peple have no concept of the torque cureves diesels provide. For those who do, we are battling in the war of complrimises (fuel mileage, noise, spool, peak power, etc). Every situation is different and unique.

Only you can know what is right for you. We will offer what has worked for us. Somewhere there is a happy medium

 

[JimmieD]

The part number for the Bosch [not Cummins part] 3200 spring is Bosch 1-461-650-366.

The piston pump displaces much more fuel at each stroke. It uses a mechanical piston instead of the stock diphragm pump. You don't really need a piston pump until you're getting way up there in power.

Modifications to the stock VE pump, with turbo mods [HTT Stage II or III], larger exhaust and some detail work can turn a stock 4BT into a very strong runner.

1st modification to do is install a Pyrometer [EGT Exhaust Gas Temperature Gauge]. All the different tweaks can drive up EGT's and these high temps can destroy the engine in a few seconds if they get too high. Once you have an EGT gauge [Pyrometer] there's all kinds of free tweaks to liven things up.

 

[Gifu]

EGT and Boost gauges will be on there.

The interference with the turbo, is just as you mentioned... the downpipe. My my motor is pushed pretty far back, and even with a 6BT manifold (chopped), the down pipe will be tight... it needs to go down and sideways. Will post picts when it's together.

The spring sounds like a worthwhile upgrade... not that i plan to rev the heck out of this, but it'd be nice to have the ability to spin to 2700RPM or so on a long hill.

can anyone give me a link on where to find that bosch spring? and directions on how to install it?

tanks.

 

[Gifu]

anyone running a Dodge crankshaft dampener? Would an aftermarket one work? Are they all the same diameter?

 

[addicted56]

"It's all a compromise."

That might be fun in a way, but it's also a huge waste of time and money. Too often the result is a blown head or toasted engine, trying to get the last few HP out. They would have had a lot more play money if they'd just gone right up to the ultra-turbo, P-100 pump with Walbro, monster exhaust and huge injectors right from the start, while also O-ringing the head, HD studs etc.

Amen to that. bounce

 

[JimmieD]

I run a stock 4BT in a 5,200 lbs truck, 4.1 gears, 5 speed with 27% o'drive, 30" tires. I can run at 80 mph, cruise comfortably at 55-60 and get killer mileage. I live in the mountains similar to the Tahoe area and even steep hills only take about 1/16 to 1/8 throttle increase from flatland in 5th gear! Placerville to Tahoe would be a piece of cake on Hwy 50 or Interstate 80, bone stock.

 

[beck]

I run a stock 4BT in a 5,200 lbs truck, 4.1 gears, 5 speed with 27% o'drive, 30" tires.

My calculation puts your final drive equal to a 3.22 and at 80 your at 2885 RPM. At this high of RPM does your fuel economy suffer greatly?

I wish I would have found this forum before I started buying parts for my build. The limited information I had told me to not turn the motor over 2000 rpm if I wanted decent economy. From this forum I see guys turning them 3000 rpm. I have geared for that 2000 rpm figure. I'm using a non-overdrive automatic with 2.56 gears. I hope this thing has enough power to get out of its own way when I get it on the road.