I like the idea of this super hx30. Do you have any specs or more info?

 

I'm the only person in the country who is running the Super HX30w as far as I know, certainly the first one on this site. I've only been driving it for a couple of days and I've got a bunch more tuning to do before it's kicking as hard as it can. That said, I'm LOVING it thus far.

Here's more info:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showt...forum/showthread.php?24138-Moonshine-gets-a-4BTA&p=483194&viewfull=1#post483194

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showt...hread.php?50-Turbo-Info-HY35s-Photos-info...-Etc&p=451370&viewfull=1#post451370

 

So this is not a hybrid turbo? I was thinking it was a hx30w with a hx35 compressor housing and wheel!

 

Year old thread but Im am at this same predicament as we speak. I have a good hx30 and hx35 to do compounds but dont want to over complicate things and prolong my motor running and want to do things once so ive been tossing around just doing the suoer hx30. More people are running the super 30 nowdays and have experience

 

I prefer compounds personally. Once you've had twins, you'll never run a single turbo again.

 

More info on the turbo itself:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showt...hread.php?50-Turbo-Info-HY35s-Photos-info...-Etc&p=451370&viewfull=1#post451370

I'm still loving my Super HX30w. I max at 35psi with the stock wastegate and am still working on the tune.

I have plans to install a drive pressure gauge and a wastegate controller so that I can get more pressure out of her.

 

Still loving mine also, eventually I'm going compounds but that won't be for a few years from now.

-vr4oaks

 

It's going to be difficult to fit compounds, intercooler, plumbing and an appropriate size air cleaner under an fj40 hood.

 

Mines going in an early bronco with a stock hood so thats my next problem i dont have lots of room. Im still a couple months away from that but i feel id like to see more than 35psi but thats all on your tune/fuel. My stock hx30 hit 29lbs while it was still in the breadtruck with just a 10 fuel plate lol

 

That sure is tight and tidy. Looks like the inlet of the bottom turbo is going right into the oil filter.

Dave

 

It'll all fit in an eb.


...Hopefully...

 

I ran the HE221 and a WH1C in my EB it fit easily but I had a body lift.

 

How was the response? I am thinking of using a Td04 19t (similar to he221) and a he341 as the low pressure.

 

Compared to a HX30, the TD04 xx has a smaller diameter shaft, which I would consider when assessing a HP turbo that is being fed air at a density significantly higher than atmospheric, i.e. requiring greater torque from the turbine.

 

I have thought of that, however many have used the he221W with success, dougal on here mentioned it was basically the same as the td04 19t, maybe he meant compressor map and turbine specs. Trouble with the hx30 is finding one with the larger inducer.

 

The HE221 is, apparently, based on the MHI TD04 (collaboration between Holset and MHI ??), but uses a completely different compressor wheel to a 19T. The vanes on the HE221 wheel are more radial, reduced backward curve, which results in the improved pressure ratio and flow, at the expense of adiabatic efficiency.

From the many people you speak of using the HE221 with success, how many have you found using the HE221 as the high pressure turbo in a compound set?

That is the situation that that increases the risk of shaft failure, but depends how much boost the low pressure turbo is making.

The HE221 is a good turbo used as a single, for the reasons I stated above, and spools quickly because it has a smaller rotating mass compared to a HX30. However that doesn't make it a better choice than a HX30 for a compound set, where the design of the HE221 compressor wheel is not an advantage, but the worse adiabatic efficiency is a disadvantage. Similarly, the higher flow of the HX30 Super, doesn't make it better than a HX30, when used in a compound set. Remember that turbos in compound sets generally operate at much lower pressure ratios than a single turbo when used to get nearly the same boost pressure and flow.

 

I haven't kept track much, just seem to run across it often. The gentleman the with 4bt in this thread, black smoke racing has a he221/hx50 setup on an om648 Mercedes and a number of other Scandinavian builds I've read about.

You seem to be have a good understanding of what is required. Am I wasting my time bothering with a compound? I have a Mercedes 3.0L om606 with a pump capable of 500hp, however only needing 300-350hp at most.
I would like power from 1500-5000 rpm as the truck is mostly used for off-roading and city driving. (Odd combination I Know).

The he221w runs out at 4000rpm and the hx30super is hard to find in this country. Td05-20g is much easier to find and fits the bill it seems.

In short I need someone smarter than me haha.

 

My experience with the OM606 is nil, but I did look into them once with the view to possibly using one, so I have some limited knowledge. Having said that, I never did any calculations for turbocharging them so my information is more along the line of educated guesses. I do know that Dougal has done some turbo sizing work for the OM606 and has better information than I have.

No single turbo is going to give you good power from 1500 to 5000 rpm, so compound turbos will be necessary.

Being an indirect injection, 6 cylinder, 3 litre diesel, and needing good boost at 1500 rpm is going to be difficult. I would confidently say that a smaller turbo than a HX30 would be required.

TD05 is too big. I would try a TD04-19T, in preference to a HE221 - reason being the better aerodynamics and adiabatic efficiency of the MHI compressor wheel. You will possibly need a smaller compressor wheel than the 19T.

 

I don't have the Super on the motor yet, but I agree 1500 rpm spool is a big ask. I have an He200wg 5cm you could try, but you would need a modest sized LP turbo to come on line before the 200wg runs out of steam. I can't recall how many pounds the he200 will flow max. If you ply Dougal with turbo parts, he might run some numbers for you.

 

According to these compressor maps, at a pressure ratio of 3, the HE221W flows approx 0.28 kg/second verse approx 0.34 kg/second for
the HX30. The HX30 can flow nearly that at a pressure ratio of 2, where the HE221 flow rate is down to approx 0.23 kg/s.

 

I appreciate the info, although I think I have confused everyone. :flushed: My thought with the td05 20g was to run it as a single. That it would be the best comprise of low vs high rpm power as I am unable to find an Hx30 super in this country.

Seperate question, when sizing the hp turbo in a compound setup does one calculate the pressure ratio as normal or do you factor in the compressed air it is already breathing?

 

TD05 as a single will give you performance at high rpm, but be too big for good performance down low. You will definitely need compounds to achieve reasonable performance over a 1500 to 5000 rpm range.

The high pressure turbo in a compound set will normally be a good turbo when used as a single.

Doesn't matter if it is a single, or HP in a compound set. Pressure ratio is always outlet pressure / inlet pressure. For a single turbo system it is P2/P1 for the HP turbo in a compound system it is P4/P3.

Remember that the pressures must be in absolute units, e.g. psia, not gauge units (add local ambient pressure (14.7 psi if you are at sea level) to gauge pressure to get absolute pressure).

When you want to plot pressure ratio and air flow for a HP turbo on a compressor map you need to use the pressure ratio (as determine above), but the air flow must be corrected for both, inlet pressure and inlet temperature.

The inlet reference pressure (P0) and reference temperature (T0) used to produce the compressor map can, and does, vary between manufactures, and isn't always published. So you need to do a bit of searching for those reference values. All MHI compressor maps I have seen use T0 = 293 K (20 C + 273) and volumetric air flow is in cubic metres per second.

If the air flow on the compressor map is in volumetric units, e.g. cubic metres per second, or cubic feet per minute, then the corrected flow (for using on the compressor map) is:

Corrected flow = actual volumetric flow x square root (T0/T1)
where:
T0 is the reference inlet temperature in absolute units (usually Kelvin)
T1 is the actual inlet temperature in absolute units. For a HP turbo in a compound set, the inlet temperature is T3 (T2 is the outlet temp from the LP turbo, and T3 the inlet temperature after interstage cooling, if applicable).

If the air flow on the compressor map is in mass flow units, e.g. kg/second, or pounds/minute, then the corrected flow is:

Corrected flow = actual mass flow x (P0/P1) x square root (T1/T0)
where:
P0 is the reference inlet pressure in absolute units
P1 is the actual inlet pressure in absolute units

Edit: AFAIK, everyone who has used a super HX30 has bought them from member alcaid, who gets them from Holset.

 

You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you this is exactly what I needed .