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Discussion Starter #1
I've read some conflicting reports on the compatibility of the 45 degree 4BT block mounts from a Ford step van and the stock 300-6 frame stands for a bolt up 4BT install into a 80-96/97 F-series trucks.

I've read several reports and seen several pictures documenting what didn't work, like in these pictures from clarkwgriswald's build-up thread on his 1993 F-150 4x4 with factory-equipped 300-6:





Obviously, there was a change in the frame stands at some point. Can anyone post a picture of the 300-6 frame stands that worked without modification. If possible, include the year and model of the truck from which they came.

If you email the picture to me at [email protected], I'll post it here for members to reference when they're hoping for a bolt-in swap.

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Dieseldude emailed me to say that he was able to use the Ford step van angled block mounts with the stock 300-6 frame stands in his '83 Bronco and he said that he thought that the all the of pre-86 or 87 300-6 frame stands were the same going back to 1960. It seems that whatever year Ford moved to the fluid-type mounts, possibly 87 or 88, was the year the 300-6 frame stands where changed and were no longer compatible with the Ford 4BT block mounts.

Can anyone confirm this?

For the record, here are the best pictures I could find of the compatible frame stands, these pictures are from Cobradriver427's swap:





Perhaps these would be easy to spot in a salvage yard, but if somebody has a picture of these frame stands without the engine, please post it for reference.

Cheers,
Brett
 

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That is the same set up I have in my bronco.
On it the frame plates just bolted on, so thay could be changed to a frame that had v8 mounts.
you need to use the frame plates of the same body style as your truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
you need to use the frame plates of the same body style as your truck.
Thanks for the follow-up Jevon. When you say "body style", I'm assuming you mean that I need to use frame plates from a '80-87ish 300-6 equipped F-series, for a bolt-in 4BT install on my '96 Bronco, as opposed to plates from a '73-79 style truck. Am I with you?

Thanks for the help.
 

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Yes, you need the frame stand plates off an 80-up ford bronco or truck with rubber mounts, not hyd. ones.
As for fire wall crearance you emailed about, my motor has the low rear exaust manifold that is angled down at about 10-15 degrees. I also used a cast 45 degree elbow off a 96 12v dodge, this cleared the firewall, real close but no rub.
The vibrations are quite comparable to a first gen dodge, mirrors do not vibrate at idle. It is smoothe at speed and is quieter than the gas engine with flowmaster at road speeds.
I used a 94 powerstroke tail pipe and muffler, they fit around the fuel tank and are solid mounted, it has a flexpipe to the down pipe about 12-18 inches.
It gets 25-28 mpg in combined driving. I would never go back to the gas engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Dieseldude, great info for me, I really appreciate it. From your setup and the details of your build, I can tell you've adhered to the "Keep It Simple Stupid" philosophy very well, I like that and hope to do the same with my build.

What size tires are you running with your 3.55 gears, and is that the close or wide-ratio ZF5?

I'm using the M5R2, 3.55 gears and 31" tires, 120hp 4BTA factory fuel settings on the pump, and I'll occasionally be towing my 17' Casita camper (approx. 3000Lbs. loaded). Do you think I could get away with 3.08 gears towing in the Rockies? I don't need to win a race, but I'd like to be able to maintain the speed limit in the mountains. What about without the trailer? I realize this may be hard to answer, but I'm looking for your gut instinct, based on how your truck feels in Colorado with 3.55's.

Did you mod the core supports much to mount the 1st Gen intercooler? Do you have an AC condenser in there too?

Your helping me out a ton and I appreciate it.

Thanks,
Brett
 

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The 300 six fluid mounts were only used for a couple years and only on some trucks (likely certain assembly plants, but not all). The frame stands for the solid rubber 300 six mounts must be used, then it is a bolt in. Absolutely nothing interchanges framewise between pre-79 Ford trucks and 1980 through 97 trucks. 1980 through 97 2wd or 4x4 300 six frame stands all interchange, they all fit the same way even if they look a bit different.
 

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Brett, I am running 235-85-16 and the wide ratio trans and like the gear splits just fine, it cruises at 70-75. I dont have my tach working yet but it feels like about 2000 rpm. It pulls most grades in 5th gear and has no problem going over the passes to Denver.
I have run higher and lower gears in my chevy, and it is best to err on the deeper side IMOP.
I like 2000 rpm at cruise.
 

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Good evening,

I was reading through your post and wanted to ask if your transmission needed to be moved forward or backward to make the 4bt fit on to the 300 six frame stands as shown in the photo with the blue engine? I've got a 4bt with the ford t-19 trans that I was thinking about installing in an F-150 of the same year vintage as talked about in your post. The engine mounting plates on my particular engine are a straight piece of 3/8 steel that come out at a 90 degree angle to the block and had the hydraulic isolators hanging straight up and down off of them. What year trucks should I be looking for to accomplish the direct bolt in application as shown?
 

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My transmission stayed in the same place it was in with the v8. I did have to change the crossmember when i installed the 5speed,and shorten the rear drive shaft but nothing moved for the diesel conversion.
As for the engine mount plates you need the 45 degree ford ones, check with Scott or post a WTB or trade.
 

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Thanks for the follow up, did you need to change the frame mounts or are those the ones from the 300 six? angled mounting plates on the cummins, dodge isolators, factory Ford frame mounts?
 

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The ford stepvan conversions replaced the 300 6 with a 4bt .these were ford van chassis with another mfg aluminum body installed. after the vans were getting tired they were sent to a place that installed the cummins and refurbished the truck to like new condition. the same was so for the gm p30 chassis route trucks. I believe that there was at least two companies that did the conversions as I have seen variations in motor mounts reguardless of whether ford or chevy chassis just depended on where the trucks were geographically,made the difference on where it was sent. The mounts pictured apear to be the dodge diesel mounts as they are way thicker than any of the mounts used in the conversions, the mounts used in the conversions are identicle to the 1980-93 dodge truck 318-360 gas motor mounts . Did they use a mount that looked like this on the factory 300-6 aplications?? I dont know but I have never seen one.A guy I visited with in Lincoln Ne had a 4bt in a f-150 4x4 he claimed he got 27 mpg with it, had 3.07 gears, zf5,and was origionally a 300-6 that he said got around 15-17 as i recall.
 

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The bottom steel part of the mount is ford-300 six, the rubber block looks like dodge,(don't know if it is gas or diesel) the upper steel bolted to the block is 4bt ford conversion.
Brett I missed your question on the intercooler. I moved the radiator out far enough to fit the first gen Dodge intercooler, had to mod the support for the cooler mounts.
Wanted to run for awhile nonintercooled to get mpg numbers and egt's, still haven't got around to hooking it up.
 

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I believe these are the part numbers for the ford frame mounts, but correct me if im wrong. Left side is E2tz 6029c and the right ide is F4tz 6028A
 

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Well to tell you the truth i have ran both the 302/v-8 289/v-8, 248/260/280/300 straight 6 motors and hands down i would have to go with the 300 straight 6 becuase it is only 20-25hp difference that the 302 but it has twice the touque than the 302. And the 6 will get 20+ miles a gallon if drove right and your lucky to get 12-15 out of the 302. And they made that same engine from the 60's to the late 90's. And the 300 straight six is nearly indestructable. The timing alone speaks for it self. Instead of a timing chain or belt it has gears and will never go out. I bought a 300 engine for my 65 out of a milk truck with over 200k and i put over 200k and it is still running today. It went through my dad and two of my brothers. My dad claimed to have got 25mpg at one time. And to answer the question about the mounts. The 300 and 280 260 are the same and the 170 200 240 are the same but different than the 300 280. And no matter what you will have to change the mounts if you go to a v-8 or weld some in. But the bell housing on the 300 and 302 i believe are the same. And any of you that are planning on rebuilding any engine older than 88 is a waste of time. The only way you can get an engine older than 88 to last longer than 40,000 miles is to get a set of heads or a head off a newer than 88 engine to match. The older engines were made with to soft of metal and the gasoline we use now will eat them up fast. Plus i have found out that the newer 302 heads are way more high compression and give you more power. Yeah you could spend 4or500 dollars and have hardened seat put in. But why when you can get both heads out of a wrecking yard for 100 % and they will run for 200k instead of the old engines going if your lucky 100k.
 

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The fluid mounts showed up about 92 or 93, but perches from an 80+ would work. After 80, all perches were interchangeable between all trucks, not sure on the vans but their frame is quite similar, but you will have to use 80+ as the previous trucks were rather different.
 

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The fluid mounts showed up about 92 or 93, but perches from an 80+ would work. After 80, all perches were interchangeable between all trucks, not sure on the vans but their frame is quite similar, but you will have to use 80+ as the previous trucks were rather different.
If you are implying that all 80-96 300 straight 6 frame stands will work with ford chassis motor mounts, then that is incorrect. From personal experience, 93 F150 4WD frame stands do not work (see pictures up top) and from my brothers swap, 89 F150 2WD frame stands do not work. I would guess that only 80-86 300 6 frame stands and ford chassis motor mounts offer a bolt in installation.
 

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One pic shows 4 sets of Ford frame mounts as if viewed from the front of truck. The closest is the 6 cylinder you want. The next is out of the donor 1986 E350 van. The 3rd set is the wrong 6 cylinder mounts. The 4th set is the trucks 302/351 mounts. The other pics show the mounts bolted in the truck and the left hand Cummins motor side mount with the Dodge rubber isolator. The engine bolted in without any fabrication. The trucks original transmission, cross member, and drive shaft were used. I have been driving it for over a year now. I have many more pics.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Dieselnutz, thanks for your post. You just clarified a very confusing situation.

I just scored the correct set last weekend form the Pick-n-pull in San Antonio, 14 bucks. I actually got mine off a late model f150, so I suspect that you can find them on all years. In fact, the vast majority of 6cyl trucks there had these mounts, I only saw one or two of the other ones with the hydraulic isolators (third from the front in your first picture), compared to 15 or so of the correct stands. The problem is that they are ALL "Cash for Clunkers" vehicles so the blocks can't be sold and you can't take a jack into the yard. I scavenged the one that had been picked over the most, but it still took me 2 hours to get them out.

Are your pictures hosted online? How did you get your exhaust to clear the firewall?

Thanks,
Brett
 

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Yeah, thnks. I just bought the correct ones my self for $20 from thisa really grat yard I found finally around here. I'm gonna buy every other set I see too until I have a lifetime supply. Anyone know the part #? Is it in the stickies?
 
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