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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Like many of you, I'm diving head first into a 4BT swap, though my application is a Land Cruiser, I'm sure there are a few of us that could benefit from a "parts list" and "pricing" page that helps arrange a budget for the needed parts. If something like this exists here on the site I appologize, I searched and didn't find anything quite the same.

So, here is my list of parts needs (eventually), what would you expect to pay for the following parts? (please specify new or used)

4BT Motor (OE aftercooled) - Used $1000-$3000 ($7660 ReCon from Cummins)
4BTA Motor (OE intercooled) - Used $1500-$3000
6BT Crank Pully/Damper - Fluidampr Part# 960311

INTAKE & EXHAUST:
4BTA/6BT Intercooled intake (Short, faces forward) - Cummins Part# 3918983* - Used
4BTA/6BT Intercooled intake (Short, faces forward) - Cummins Part# 3918530 - Used $30-$50
4BT/6BT Grid Heater (I've seen $100 new?)
4BTA Air Intake Plate (for use with grid heater) - Cummins Part# 3921500*
6BT Air Intake Plate (for use with grid heater, needs to be modified)
4BT Exhaust Manifold (turbo exists 90* down @ rear) - Used $30-$50
6BT Exhaust Manifold (non-modified) - Used $75-$150
6BT Exhaust Manifold (pre-modified)

TURBO:
H1C Turbo Assembly (CPL 858 takeoff) - Used
HY35 Turbo Assembly - Used $75-200
HX35 Turbo Assembly

FUEL PUMP:
3200 RMP Governor Spring - Bosch Part# 1-464-650-366

POWER STEERING & VACUUM:
4BT Vacuum Pump Assembly - Used ~$100 / New $450 w/hose
4BT Power Steering Pump (w/o gear) - Aftermarket Cardone Part# 208709* & NAPA Part# 20-8709
4BT Power Steering Pump Adapter Housing - Cummings Part# 3910656*
4BT Power Steering Pump Assembly w/adapter & gear (CPL 858) - Used $150-250
6BT Power Steering/Vacuum Pump Combo Assembly w/adapter & gear - Used $200-300

AIR CONDITIONING:
AC Compressor & Mount (Dodge)

OIL:
Horizontal oil filter base -
Vertical oil filter base (where is this sourced? Ford applications?)
Remout mount oil filter base - Cummins Part# 3284170* (remote oil filter base and lines required)
Mid-Engine Oil Fill Tube w/cap - Used $20-$40

FLYWHEEL/FLEXPLATE:
Flywheel Housing/Adapter for use with GM transmission (SAE #?*) - Cummins Part# 3916101* --> Supercededs to 3913056* ~$975 new w/starter ring
Flywheel Housing/Adapter for use with Ford transmission (SAE #?)
Flywheel Housing/Adapter for SAE #3 Cummins Part# 3931627*
Flywheel Housing/Adapter for use with Chevy 4L80E / 700R4 / 4L60E / TH400 transmission - Aftermarket LINK
Flywheel for use with GM manual trans. - Cummins Part# 3913055* --> Supercedes to 3913056* ~$975 new w/starter ring - Used ~$300-$500. Used Sources: http://www.destroked.com/ & Proffits Cruisers
Flywheel for use with Borg Warner transmissions
Flywheel for use with Ford manual transmissions - Used ~$100-150
Flexplate for use with GM Auto Transmissions (TH400, 700r4, etc) - Cummins Part# 3918957
Flexplate for use with Chevy 4L80E / 700R4 / 4L60E / TH400 transmission - Aftermarket LINK
Starter Spacer = 16mm (Ford & GM) - Cummins Part# 3906647

MOTOR MOUNTS:
Motor Mounts/Isolators (liquid filled) -

* - Not verified
Bold - Verified

To be added, lots of conversion part #'s here:
http://4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32

Pictures to be added:
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2675

To Be Continued... As values & parts are determined I'll continue to update this post :D
 

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That is the bling setup :) But yes this goes a long way. Everyone keeps saying "I'm sick of my gas mileage" but have to realize they'd have to drive a long long long time before it would pay for itself...
 

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Saddle up.. This is what can happen when I'm bored at work..

Like many of you, I'm diving head first into a 4BT swap, though my application is a Land Cruiser, I'm sure there are a few of us that could benefit from a "parts list" and "pricing" page that helps arrange a budget for the needed parts. If something like this exists here on the site I appologize, I searched and didn't find anything quite the same.

So, here is my list of parts needs (eventually), what would you expect to pay for the following parts? (please specify new or used)
As long as we don't get into a "this person has this part for this $$, but that's too much" conversation and stay somewhat general on this, we may not run afoul of this little note: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2040

(Sticky from General Classifieds section RE: Price discussions..)

The unfortunate thing is that the answer to your question is "it depends". I'm assuming you'll be needing to do a bit of "used part" shopping like the rest of us, otherwise you'd probably not be asking the "how much" question in the first place.. :eek: There have been a number of discussions about the total price of individual persons' swaps, and even debate about what is really the cost of the 4BT vs other options.

Basically, it's the old formula for racing (which I find can be adapted in meaning to fit just about ANY situation in life):

Good -- Fast -- Cheap

Pick any TWO.

If you need the part to be a good one, and you need it fast, it ain't gonna be cheap.

If you need a good part, can take your time and scrounge, barter, wheel and deal, maybe put some sweat equity into the thing.. You might get it cheap. In some cases, dang near free!

And that part that you got really fast and really cheap.. Likely that it's not going to be any good.

The other 3 elements affecting price are the same as those in Real Estate: Location, location, and location. Some small, light stuff isn't going to be a problem. But an engine? Strap on shipping and it may be more cost effective to pay a little more for one locally, that you can hear run and maybe even inspect before purchase..

Breaking it down:

4BT (OE aftercooled) - Used $1000-$3000
4BTA (OE intercooled) - Used $1500-$3000
Not to be one of the "Go search" crowd, but you might want to do a bit more reading / searching on the site. If you had, I'd suspect that you probably wouldn't have broken down the engines in this grouping. And yes, the search function built into the board does, well, suck at times, but that's why I use Google. Just add "site:4btswaps.com" to the end of your search criteria, without the quotes, and it'll restrict the search to only here! It's the only way I find anything without plowing through a bunch of posts.

The type of aftercooler used (whether it's the Air-Water Jacket Water After Cooler - JWAC or the Air-Air Charge Air Cooler - CAC, and yes, technically they're BOTH considered aftercoolers) or even the lack of an aftercooler does not appear to significantly alter the price for a given engine. Yes, engine condition being equal it might make a difference to some, but that's more from convenience factor than "value". You can add an aftercooler to the ones that don't have them initially, and the only difference between them and the "factory aftercooled" units is slightly higher compression and pump calibration. And after a few turns of the screws, that's no longer a factor.

The single thing that makes the biggest price difference is the type of Injection Pump the engine is equipped with.

VE Pump equipped engines are the ones seen most commonly, and those typically run in the range you've given, used. New? Well.. I think a genuine Cummins Recon motor can be had for about $5-6K, but don't quote me on that..

Engines with the P7100 inline pump go for a premium. The P7100 is considered to be more durable, and has the potential for more power. Can they be had cheap? Sure, if you can wait and keep searching. Oh, and since it seems to be asked every time the P7100 is mentioned, the cost of converting from the VE to the P7100 is VERY steep, as in: I've read that the injection lines can go for $1100 a set. IF you can find them. And, IIRC, in addition to the lines and pump you have to swap out the timing housing, as the P7100 uses a different mounting configuration.

If you find a P7100 engine for a price that's not too much over a VE pump engine in similar condition, by all means go for it, but unless you're going to go for the ragged edge of performance, I'd not worry about getting one too much. You can squeeze a fair amount of power out of the VE reliably. And, as far as durability goes, for the price premium that the P7100 engines normally command, you could buy a VE engine AND a spare VE pump and still be cheaper overall if you're really worried about it. Buy clean dry fuel, keep it clean and dry, and make sure that your lift pump is functioning correctly, and the VE will be happy. Get garbage fuel, let it collect a significant amount of water, and have a rust-flaking tank on the vehicle, and even the P7100 is going to express dissatisfaction with your "burn this!" offerings in short order.

4BTA/6BT Intercooled intake
4BT/6BT Grid Heater (I've seen $100 new?)
4BTA/6BT Air Intake Plate (for use with grid heater)
You might look at this discussion for info on those three: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1474
You'll find Cummins part numbers for everything needed. So, call your local Cummins dealer and see what the going rate and availability are for those parts. That should give you a "high end" price. Then, once the blood pressure and breathing return to normal, hit flEaBay / Classifieds here. Don't forget the Vendor section!!

Also, if you wind up with an engine that has a JWAC and you want the CAC parts, (or vice versa), you might find someone willing to trade what you want for what you have.. :D

6BT Exhaust Manifold
Well, I've seen one offered in the Classifieds here for $5 plus shipping, but I don't quite think you'll get it for that price all the time. And, if you're talking about one that has been cut down, capped, and had the divider removed for use on the 4BT, then I think you'll be quite a bit more. Of course, if you do it yourself for the grinding / welding, you save!

HY35 Turbo Assembly
I didn't find any "new" prices for these in a quickie search, but I know new HX35's are in the $650 or so range. Get one used in good condition, or at least with good wheels, and a rebuild kit is in the sub $100 range. Also factor in that you might need to get a different housing from what it comes with to make it match up to the 4BT correctly. Housings can go for about $200 new, once it's shipped.

4BT Vacuum Pump Assembly
Which one?

If you're talking the vacuum pump / power steering pump combination gear-driven assembly, check for one off a Dodge application, it'll bolt up to the 4BT. Those can be pricey, though. I think I've seen those go for about $300.

If you want one of the ones that is belt drive and mounts to the head at the intake manifold, there's one for sale in the Classifieds right now for $100: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2462

Now, if all you need the vacuum for is brake boost.. Might want to consider going hydroboost, especially as it may come along for the ride if you source your engine from a P30..



AC Compressor & Mount
Unless you want to build your own belt / mounts, you're probably going to use a Dodge compressor and will need to have custom lines made / current lines adapted. So, price out an AC compressor for an, oh, 93 Dodge w/ Cummins at the car parts store of your choice. (From what I've seen, if there's an option on that in the listings, you want the one that mounts with 4 bolts going across the unit, not bolts parallel to the main axis of the compressor.) And also allow another $50-$100 for lines, if not more.

As far as the mount goes, if you've got the space in the frame down low, then you can use the Dodge mounts from junkyard / classifieds / etc. That might be the cheap way without going to homebrew / second belt solutions. Note that if you go this route, may need to use the Dodge alternator with it to avoid some mount issues, and some modifications to the mount may be in order. I believe DieselCruiserHead hit a snag using a GM alternator and the Dodge mounts for AC: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304

There is a high-mount option for the compressor that comes from the medium-duty applications for the B series motors if you don't have the space down low.. It basically flips the alternator up top, the lower radiator hose connection to the engine gets a relocation, and the compressor tucks under the alternator. Details about that are here: http://www.cummins-conversion.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=781

I seem to remember someone talking about the main mount in that conversion costing $120. Also, the belt routing / tensioner location given in that diagram may not be the best, as some folks have reported belt slippage / noise due to insufficient wrap on the pulley. MCInfantry's belt routing / tensioner location is, in my humble opinion, superior:

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1654

Now, one thing I've been scratching my head on is the possibility of using a different compressor and doing a pulley swap, but that's opening up a whole different can of worms.

6BT Crank Pully/Damper
I've seen them for $25 + shipping, used online, and up to $400 or more for a Fluidampr brand unit. New ones (not the Fluidampr ones!) are in the $100 - $150 range at most parts stores.

There's debate about their efficacy on the 4B engine, but if you wanna, go for it! Just keep in mind that the two-piece metal / rubber sandwich types should really be thought of as "wear items".

They don't last forever, and once the rubber separates from the metal they can cause a lot more problems than they solve. Unless you can lay hands on the piece to inspect it, or get it for a price where you can afford to loose the money, stick to a new one. Also, the smart man will match-mark the two metal pieces in a VERY visible way so that *WHEN* they start to slip in relation to each other, you can replace before it gets to the "walking back and forth on the shaft" part of the game.

Which is what happened to the one in the GF's mom's Volvo back in January. 86+ 240s have the same rubber / metal dampener design as the Cummins (and virtually everything else). This one first rotated considerably between the two pieces (as evidenced by the timing marks no longer having ANYTHING to do with TDC), then started shifting back towards the block. It ate the plastic timing cover and then chewed away at a timing gear until it finally caused the timing belt to break. Lucked out, not an interference engine, and the gear was cheap. But.. Let the same thing happen on a B series and I think it'd have the potential to make hamburger out of some rather expensive stuff.

Vertical oil filter mount (where is this sourced? Ford applications?)
Dodge and Ford apps used the vertical filter mount, Chevy the horizontal. You can swap the filter mounts between the 6 and 4. (But you might not want to swap the oil coolers between the two.. One for the 6 is bigger than the one for the 4, might promote overcooling if used in the 4, and vice versa would be vice versa..)

Flywheel for use with GM manual transmissions
Ouch. I think the answer to that one is "rare and pricey". This discussion might lend some light on the subject, and offers up what many are doing for manual transmissions behind these things: use the Dodge stuff!

http://4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15927



Motor Mounts
You're more than likely talking custom fab work on those. Price of which can vary between a six-pack for your friend with a welder and some scrap plate laying around on the low end and your first-born on the high end. CrewCab59 or MookTank (or maybe others???) might be able to help you out with those, as I think they're both willing to weld. CrewCab59 lists some common mount setups for about $225-$325 in the Vendor section: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1741
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
As long as we don't get into a "this person has this part for this $$, but that's too much" conversation and stay somewhat general on this, we may not run afoul of this little note...
Wow, alot of great information... and some other stuff ;)

I have a 4BT, and I have many of the conversion parts needed and sourced. I spent hours searching eBay, 4BTswaps and several other used part outlets to determine my budget, I just wanted to hear more from those that are seriously involved. The point of this thread was to create a one-stop thread to assist someone with the budget aspect of their swap. Is it meant to be gospel? Is it meant to be an authoritive price guide? Of course not, did I indicate otherwise?

Your questioning items of my list, did I not say it would continue to be clarified and added to? The whole point was for forum members to add their input and come up with a pretty comprehensive list of used parts prices. Again, not gospel but "guides"

Search you say? Search my sig :happyfinger: I've been in the new/used auto/engine parts business for almost 15 years now (and I'm only 27), everything from a $1 door busing to $40k custom built/resto Land Cruiser. I don't hesitate one bit to reference a general price "guide" to relay potential costs to customers, and I use them regularly for myself on build such as power-steering and disc-brake conversions, where options such as new-used and sources can change the prices vastly... All covered in such a guide.

Can a thread like this be done? Sure, I've been involved in countless similar threads, with equal variables. Spring over axle conversions, Chevy V8 motor conversion, differential build options. It can be done... :grinpimp:

To address some specific items:

If you want one of the ones that is belt drive and mounts to the head at the intake manifold, there's one for sale in the Classifieds right now for $100: http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2462
You'll see I posted in that thread, its sold ;)

Now, if all you need the vacuum for is brake boost.. Might want to consider going hydroboost, especially as it may come along for the ride if you source your engine from a P30..
Again, I'm not interested in debating the specifics of my conversion, not the point of the thread. Hydroboost is a great option, I'll have to add it to my list.

There is a high-mount option for the compressor that comes from the medium-duty applications for the B series motors if you don't have the space down low.. It basically flips the alternator up top, the lower radiator hose connection to the engine gets a relocation, and the compressor tucks under the alternator. Details about that are here: http://www.cummins-conversion.com/ph...opic.php?t=781
Great link, I hadn't run across that option yet.

Ouch. I think the answer to that one is "rare and pricey". This discussion might lend some light on the subject, and offers up what many are doing for manual transmissions behind these things: use the Dodge stuff!

http://4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15927
Again, more interest in pricing in this thread than advice. I'll have to look into the Dogde stuff more (great link BTW) but I'm fairly certain I will have to pony up for the Chevy flywheel with my plans to use a Toyota transmission FWIW, its been done with sucsess in the past, thus the route I plan to take at this point.

You're more than likely talking custom fab work on those.
I'm referring to the actual motor mounts (isolators), I do realize there are several varieties that have been sucsessfully used, early non liquid Dodge units, the liquid filled ones that come from most P30 conversions, as well as a pile of other options. I'll price them accordingly. I do realize the frame mounts will not be easy to price, I don't really plan to add those to my list either. I'll let the users come up with that aspect of their conversion.
 

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That is the bling setup :) But yes this goes a long way. Everyone keeps saying "I'm sick of my gas mileage" but have to realize they'd have to drive a long long long time before it would pay for itself...
Exactly, imagine being able to point them to a thread, with all the prices, regardless of their conversion. Sure you can tell them what "you" paid or what "joe" paid... but each conversion will be entirely different. The Proffits 80 Series 4BT spreadsheet for example probably turns 10x more away then it does turn on... but that is the goal, to inform. People always say "I can get a running 4BT out of my uncle vernies delivery van for $1500, another $500 in spray paint and batteries and I'll have a 4BT Jeep" ;). Little do they know there are alot of variables and associated costs.

Just like the "I can do a spring over for $300 worth of spring pads and longer shocks" ;)
 

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personally...

If you can find a cummins truck wreck to pick parts off of, i'd go that route. I did that on my second try and it worked out well. Still hit or miss though.

There are all the little things too....

belts
bolts
hoses
fittings
fuel lines
fluids

the list goes on...
 

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Wow, alot of great information... and some other stuff ;)

I have a 4BT, and I have many of the conversion parts needed and sourced. I spent hours searching eBay, 4BTswaps and several other used part outlets to determine my budget, I just wanted to hear more from those that are seriously involved. The point of this thread was to create a one-stop thread to assist someone with the budget aspect of their swap. Is it meant to be gospel? Is it meant to be an authoritive price guide? Of course not, did I indicate otherwise?

Your questioning items of my list, did I not say it would continue to be clarified and added to? The whole point was for forum members to add their input and come up with a pretty comprehensive list of used parts prices. Again, not gospel but "guides"

Search you say? Search my sig :happyfinger: I've been in the new/used auto/engine parts business for almost 15 years now (and I'm only 27), everything from a $1 door busing to $40k custom built/resto Land Cruiser. I don't hesitate one bit to reference a general price "guide" to relay potential costs to customers, and I use them regularly for myself on build such as power-steering and disc-brake conversions, where options such as new-used and sources can change the prices vastly... All covered in such a guide.

Can a thread like this be done? Sure, I've been involved in countless similar threads, with equal variables. Spring over axle conversions, Chevy V8 motor conversion, differential build options. It can be done... :grinpimp:

To address some specific items:



You'll see I posted in that thread, its sold ;)



Again, I'm not interested in debating the specifics of my conversion, not the point of the thread. Hydroboost is a great option, I'll have to add it to my list.



Great link, I hadn't run across that option yet.



Again, more interest in pricing in this thread than advice. I'll have to look into the Dogde stuff more (great link BTW) but I'm fairly certain I will have to pony up for the Chevy flywheel with my plans to use a Toyota transmission FWIW, its been done with sucsess in the past, thus the route I plan to take at this point.



I'm referring to the actual motor mounts (isolators), I do realize there are several varieties that have been sucsessfully used, early non liquid Dodge units, the liquid filled ones that come from most P30 conversions, as well as a pile of other options. I'll price them accordingly. I do realize the frame mounts will not be easy to price, I don't really plan to add those to my list either. I'll let the users come up with that aspect of their conversion.
I guess I mis-interpreted your initial post when you put in:

So, here is my list of parts needs (eventually), what would you expect to pay for the following parts? (please specify new or used)
The way I read that, it would appear that you're in the early research part of a swap, haven't bought anything yet, etc. I hope that explains why I answered the way I did. And it sounds VERY close to the steady stream of "how much is this gonna cost me" posts that come through here.

Really just trying to help, because believe me, I'd not spend the 3+ hours digging up stuff with Google, typing, editing, and even then tossing half of it out just as "long rants on using the search feature". I value this site too much to do anything of that nature. So, if it seemed that way, I'm sorry.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
...Really just trying to help, because believe me, I'd not spend the 3+ hours digging up stuff with Google, typing, editing, and even then tossing half of it out just as "long rants on using the search feature". I value this site too much to do anything of that nature. So, if it seemed that way, I'm sorry.
No worries at all, I understand exactly how my original post could read two ways. Your post provided a ton of great info, and a couple of great links I hadn't stumbled across. No appology needed, but I appologize if it seemed as if I required one :beer:

Seriously though, you did provided alot of great insight... Hopefully we can turn this thread into a "estimated costs" for the "common variables". :D
 

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To the top for this old thread, there is some very good information for the new poster. The GM and Ford patterns do not have a SAE number (they are their own pattern) and the HY35s can be as high as $350 though I wouldn't pay more than $200-$250 personally..

Kurt found a really killer Toyota I-6 diesel that is nice and quiet and will bolt to his existing trans that he (I think plans to) eventually go with and sold his 4BT. Which is always a good point for anyone...
 

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Estimating costs for a swap

Having built hundreds of hot rods, custom bikes, and race cars over a period of 30+ years. All I can say is it's expensive. But can you save money by doing a swap, you sure can. Get a plan thats realistic and stick with it. Do all the research you can stand, and a little more. Ask questions and lot's of them, and this is important ask them from folks that know. Be realistic about your goals. Can you really afford a 700 HP 4BT CJ7 with 48" inch tires, and how practical would it really be. (The last statement was gave as a example and not to be taken as fact) Remember what ever you build you will have to live with. Very custom swaps are very hard to sell. (The exception to that seems to be diesel swaps) If they are done right. Having this forum and others to do the research and to talk to folks that have done conversions like yours is priceless. So I'm all for any sticky or posting that helps, I did my first swap in 1974 I swapped a narrowed 9" and a Ram air IV 400 pontiac into a 62 Pontiac Tempest. I had no help forums I could goto. And almost no help in that no one had done a swap like that I could talk to. But I successful It didn't work well as I could not get enough tire under it to hook up well. But one of the lessons learned was figure up the costs as close as you can. And then hit times 2 on the caculator!!! That formula still holds up well to this day. Although it may be times 3 now.
 
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