[dhennis8080]

I am considering buying a Cummins ISB 170 engine for a Ford Conversion. The one I am looking at appears to have an Allison 1000 (12-bolt SAE???) tail housing/tranny adapter. I have heard of these engines going in medium duty Fords (F450/550/650) with the 5R110 transmission, for missions such as flightline mini tankers.

Can anyone tell me if the rumored combination, is some aftermarket option, or if there is a Cummins tail housing that would be able to be purchased directly from Cummins?

Secondly, If this engine is in one of the Ford M/D trucks, Is there a way to find out which ECM is used to interface with the engine? Note- Oreilly's has no listing for this option, from, 2003-2017. (didn't search farther)

 

[char1355]

No, that engine would have had no applications in Ford trucks in the USA. Maybe in South America but not here. Those engine came in delivery vans like used by UPS and other companies. The transmission behind it is an Allison 1000 5 speed which is a very good unit. The engines used in the medium duty Fords would have been 6bt or ISB 5.9 or 6.7 engines. The 5R110 would not have been used in those applications. They used an Allison automatic or Eaton manual transmission. Not sure that there are any adapters to mate a 5R110 to the SAE housing. One thing you must understand about the ISB 170 is it is totally computer controlled. Even the accelerator pedal is electronic. We have several members who have used those in swaps so it can be done but is a bit more complicated due to the electronics and SAE connection. Are you thinking a 2wd or 4wd vehicle?

 

[dhennis8080]

Hey Char, I have a 2008 F250 SD 4wd with a puked 5.4 gasser. Got it right, and thought it would be a good candidate for the 4.9. I removed the crappy waste of a bed, so I can do a light-weight dumper flatbed. It is a more comfortable cab, but everything else is "stripped fleet version. (Like the old Custom or XL models)

I have seen several different Fords (explorers, f-series, even an E-series with the 4.9 turned up a bit. All seemed to say it was a good conversion. So, I thought I might look into it. I am NOT looking for a "neck snapper." I am only looking for equal to original for an "old man daily driver" with a lot less problems than the crappy 5.4.

I've had a Jeep conversion that was original engine in a "bloated" Jeep. It was as much as I want. But the driver's position lacked leg room, and elbow room. And padding on the doors was non-existent or able to be installed...

I have heard of a couple companies that would make computer modules for the Cummins electronics, and also the modules for the 5R110. Is this really that hard to do? I see the mechanical as a week or so of fabbing. Then I perceive, the only really intense head scratching could be the coupling of computers.

I didn't think the Allison would fit in the Fords...

 

[char1355]

Question, what is a 4.9? The ISB Cummins come in 3.9 or 4.5. The 170 is a 3.9. On the transmission, the 5R110 is no small puppy either. The Allison would be kind of expensive to modify but not sure what it will cost to adapt the 5R110. Member A310 did that transmission with a 4-53 Detroit with twin turbos. He might give you some insight as to what would be needed. Your engine will have an SAE3 housing on the rear. To use the Allison you'd have to change the rear section of the transmission to 4x4 like came on the Chevy Duramax. Then you'd need an adapter to mate it to your transfer case. From what I read, your 5.4 was 300 HP @ 5000 RPM and 365 lb ft of torque @ 3750 RPM. The ISB 170 is 170 HP @ 2300 RPM and 420 lb ft of torque @ 1600 RPM. Would definitely need a different torque converter on the transmission and may need new differential gears.

 

[dhennis8080]

Sorry about the fat-finger typo. You are right. I meant the 3.9. I have researched the comparisons as well as watched my share of YouTube videos of folks that have tried it. To the best of my research, you are about correct with the exception of the 5.4 having a HP range of as low as 230, up to 327. all mind you, these are "new" ratings and inn the shop dyno. And as I am sure you are well aware, in the diesels, torque is the more important number to keep an eye on. In the gasser, the range is: 320-370. Again, I have found a half dozen reporters that differ a few pounds each. I have looked at a couple of examples in the real-world dyno testing, and the torque for "average OEM examples I have seen, actually only had around 300.

I am thinking, (wondering) with some clean-ups, if I could get closer to the 420+ ft.lb torque. I would much prefer the mostly mechanical 3.9 with the P-pump. But in recent weeks, looking in the sale sites, you can either get new (or remanned for more than new), or you can get a core. I'd love to find a decent mid-lifed 3.9 for under $4k.

Again, I just want a reliable alternative to the 5.4 gasser for a farm-to-town rig. I sent an email to Narwhal to see if they could help with the electronics... I'll update as available.

 

[char1355]

The under $4K price is likely to be a pipe dream these days. 5-10 years ago there were tons of these things available but that supply is gone. Any new ones you get are coming out of China. They still build them over there but no new ones have been built in the USA for nearly 20 years. If you could find a 8 valve 4bt, adapting the transmission would be much easier. Destroked has both the adapter plate and flex plate to make the swap. Have you considered a 6bt? There are even engine mounts made for that one for your truck. Stock power was generally 160 HP and 400 lb ft of torque. With some minor tinkering you can have more power. There were engines in medium duty trucks that went as high as 230 HP and 620 lb ft of torque.

 

[dhennis8080]

I had considered the 6bt last year right after I got the truck. But I was turned off by the need to relocate the tranny 2 1/4" farther back, and redoing the drivelines, etc... The ford is 4" shorter in the engine compartment than the dodge. Yes, that might be easiest is many respects, but I was seeing all the higher powered 4s, and the lack of need to do so much more modifications, and resulting expense of the mods, that I have thought to try to stay with the 4 cylinders. I even looked at a guy's 2.0L VW powered 250 SD. But I thought it might be too weak and too hard on such a light duty engine. You are the second person to suggest the "8-valve". Do you mean a 16-valve"? Although I have heard of it, I haven't found any information, application, etc. The other guy said it was an electronic engine.

I have an adapter plate, flywheel, and PCS box W/ harness I bought from a guy that had an 03' setup in his 06 SD. But I quickly discovered, the 03 engine was a CR engine, and the adapter plate has a different bolt pattern. So, I now need to sell at least the adapter plate and PCS box. Id love to get a newer 4bt and use the Destroked adapter. But aren't they super expensive?

 

[dhennis8080]

I had a good long talk with the guys at Big Bear today. They said they could get me a long block, less ALL accessories, manifolds, CR injection, etc, for just under a frillion dollars (around $9K I think). He also had exactly the (new) engine I need for only about $10+K. He looked on all his secret sites for used, and found just what I did, ... zip. I found 5.9 12-valves all over the place, from $1,700- $7,000... I know, I am starting to sound like a whiner. Still hoping and keeping my options open for now. My friend with a shop will have the cab off by Friday. Then I can start pulling the engine and making measurements.